Bagel-off! Saturday Jan 26, 11am

[DanielK]

Given the recent discussion in the bagels topic, I am hosting a "bagel-off" at my house in Potomac (just off 270) on Saturday, January 26th at 11am. I will provide lox, whitefish, cream cheese, LTO, and coffee and other beverages.

Each person coming will be asked to bring fresh (like, picked up on the way over) plain bagels from 1-2 different sources - will coordinate that via PM. The tasting will be blind - only I will know where each bagel is from, and we will take notes, rank, and declare a victor!

Send a PM to be included in the festivities - I haven't decided what the max group size is yet, but there is one. And I do have two cats in case allergies come into play.

Cheers!

[squidsdc]

Sounds like fun! Count me a "maybe" for now.

I usually have capers with --is that not the norm? I can bring them if you need...

[DanielK]

I can add capers to the shopping list. I normally see capers when serving smoked salmon as a dish, but not commonly when serving the lox on bagels.

[darkstar965]

Boo! If this should end up slipping into February, I'd be near certain to be able to make it and help. But can't do that last weekend in Jan. Will watch eagerly for the results though--you guys should be easily able to one-up what those NY posers on SeriousEats did!

[DanielK]

Sorry, DS, already have 8-10 people in, so the event is on.

[Choirgirl21]

I can add capers to the shopping list. I normally see capers when serving smoked salmon as a dish, but not commonly when serving the lox on bagels.

FWIW, a friend and I had a delicious smoked bluefish & cream cheese bagel sandwich from Neopol smokery in Union Market this Saturday that included tomato and...capers. I don't know for certain that they were also included on the salmon and trout versions, but I believe they were.

[DanielK]

Looks like we have 8 people attending, representing at least 9 bagel joints (plus if someone shows up with a wildcard like store-bought or Starbucks.)

I can probably have a few more people before it becomes unwieldy in my kitchen, if we have any last minute interest. PM for interest, please.

[DanielK]

We had a cancellation, so there's still room for a couple more if anyone wants to jump in last second.

The cream cheese, lox, and whitefish are here waiting for you and your bagels!

[DanielK]

We had 7 Rockweilers and +1s gather at my house this morning for our bagel tasting.

Tasting was done completely blind - nobody knew which bagel was which until the reveal. (*methodology below)

Note #1: Since we had to do this on a Saturday, we couldn't include any of the kosher places like Goldberg's (Silver Spring/Potomac) or Kosher Bakery (Kemp Mill)
Note #2: The Serious Eats guys were right - even though we were eating within 1-2 hours of the purchase, there's no question that several would have been better hot out of the oven.

That said, here are the overall results (on a 10 point scale):

6.7 Bagelry (Silver Spring)
6.6 Main St (Fairfax)
6.3 Georgetown Bagelry (Bethesda)
6.3 Bethesda Bagels (Bethesda)
5.6 Ize's (Rockville)
5.4 Bagel City (Rockville)
5.0 Snider's (Silver Spring)
4.9 Royal (Germantown)
4.6 Tysons (Tyson's Corner)
4.0 Harris Teeter (store bakery, and these were whole wheat)
3.3 Thomas' (sold in grocery stores)
2.6 Brooklyn Bagels (sold in grocery stores)

First place was essentially a tie between The Bagelry (Silver Spring) and Main St. (Fairfax). The discussion at the table (after the tasting, but before the compiled results) clearly pointed to these as the best. Crusty on the outside, chewy but not wet or dense in the middle. Third place was a tie between Georgetown Bagelry (Bethesda) and Bethesda Bagels (Bethesda), but only 0.3 behind first place on a 10 point scale. These were also discussed as favorites or second favorites. Ize's and Bagel City were a little behind this bunch, though I personally had them both rated equal to GT and Bethesda. Those 4 are normally the ones that I eat, and I've had better bagels from them than these regularly, so variance is definitely a factor.

Interesting that Snider's beat out Royal and Tysons, and we quickly eliminated the store brand and packaged bagels.

* Methodology - I had 12 plates set out with a 3x5 card taped to each, with a number (1-12) written twice on the BACK of the card. One person wrote the name of the shop on half of the front of the card, tore the card in half, and without looking at the number, placed those cards in their pocket. I then took the bagels and plates, and without looking at the name on the bag, placed the bagels on to the plate and cut one plain bagel into eighths, leaving the half-card with number but no name attached to the plate. We then tasted the bagels, one at a time, with no table discussion until we'd rated all of the shops. Then we took the cards out of the pocket and had a discussion.

[Lori Gardner]

I have been anxiously awaiting these results. I am shocked to see that The Bagelry won. I used to get bagels here all the time because it is close by, but never thought they were anything special. I'll give them another shot. My favorites are from Goldberg's, which as you noted was eliminated from the competition because they are closed on Saturday.

FYI- I have heard great things about the bagels at Buffalo & Bergen at Union Market.

[DonRocks]

We had 7 Rockweilers and +1s gather at my house this morning for our bagel tasting.

Tasting was done completely blind - nobody knew which bagel was which until the reveal. (*methodology below)

Note #1: Since we had to do this on a Saturday, we couldn't include any of the kosher places like Goldberg's (Silver Spring/Potomac) or Kosher Bakery (Kemp Mill)

Note #2: The Serious Eats guys were right - even though we were eating within 1-2 hours of the purchase, there's no question that several would have been better hot out of the oven.

Bravo, Daniel. An excellent methodology, and for several reasons, this Bagel-Off was more definitive than a blind tasting of wines: 1) wines evolve after years in bottle and the evolution is impossible to predict double-blind 2) tasters get palate fatigue with alcohol (and think about what they use as a palate cleanser!) 3) "bigger" wines tend to show better in massive tastings, etc. The draw-back, of course, is that there's so much variation with bagels. A batch that just came out will be better than one that has sat out for two hours, for example, making this a bit more difficult and less conclusive.

I suspect Goldberg's would have fared well in this, so maybe a Round Two is in order. FWIW, here are some thoughts of mine on this very subject (The Bagelry vis-a-vis Goldberg's).

This was a fascinating read, and a job well-done. I'm not sure who the attendees were, but I suspect they're a hard-core bunch of bagel-heads - do you have the list?

[DanielK]

I don't think any of the attendees would object to being named, but I'd still rather they self-identify. I kept the individual score sheets, so anyone who requests can have their scores PMed or posted.

FWIW, I just posted the overall scores, but we also rated each bagel 1-5 for crust, crumb, and taste.

[DaveO]

I've been busy on the web and knew I couldn't show, consider myself knowledgeable about bagels from cultural experience, but certainly not from knowledge about baking, and am wowwed by the results.

Good job. I've got two new bagel places to try, with the one in Va being closer.

For me the big learning experience was the need to get bagels when they're fresh. Just didn't know that. Maybe that is why I like them toasted.

crusty on the outside, chewy inside. Ahhhhhhh.....that is bagel heaven.

Great job.

[DonRocks]

I don't think any of the attendees would object to being named, but I'd still rather they self-identify. I kept the individual score sheets, so anyone who requests can have their scores PMed or posted.

FWIW, I just posted the overall scores, but we also rated each bagel 1-5 for crust, crumb, and taste.

I'm a big fan of privacy, so keep them private until they self-identify, and thanks for being mindful about this

But *do* post the individual crust, crumb, taste scores!

I think we've gotta get the kosher fellas in there.

[darkstar965]

Really interesting. And +3 (or is it +4?) on the kudos. Super methodology. Bummed to have missed it.

I'm guessing (don't know of course) that dariv didn't make it since s(he) had advocated a spot called Capitol Bagel (or Bagelry) with enough substance that that went to the top of my to-try list. Though a bit surprised to see Georgetown Bagelry not even in sole possession of the bronze (with Bethesda no less!), I'll be making a beeline to Silver Spring (and Capitol) soon armed with these results.

Thanks to all the judges and, most of all, to DanielK!

[DanielK]

I agree, we've got to get the kosher places in, plus a few others that people think should be on the list. So, in a few months, we can take the top few from this tasting and do it again. Since we'll have to do it on a Sunday, I have to wait until at least mid-May for the Hebrew School year to be over, since that keeps me otherwise occupied on Sunday mornings.

With this smaller group, we had people getting bagels from 2 or 3 places. Next time we will have to insist on ONE stop per person, and make sure the bagel is still warm and fresh when they leave.

Would it make sense, not to toast, but to put ALL of them whole in the oven at 350 for 5 minutes right before eating?

[darkstar965]

Would it make sense, not to toast, but to put ALL of them whole in the oven at 350 for 5 minutes right before eating?

I may be in the minority on this but my answer to your question would be a horrified and unqualified NO! Good bagels are best non toasted since toasting can neutralize some of the finer points of a great bagel. Understand you're proposing heating vs toasting but answer would be the same. Each bagel should compete on its own merits without any adulteration or mucking about imho. True there is an issue when you're doing a bagel-off that some will be more recently from an oven than others but, again here, as long as none are more than a couple of hours from an over, the crust, interior, chew and flavor should all be intact and ready for judging.

[porcupine]

I'm not sure who the attendees were, but I suspect they're a hard-core bunch of bagel-heads - do you have the list?

Mr P and I were there. I was actually surprised and disappointed how bready most of the bagels were. Bethesda Bagels was the only one with a substantially chewy texture (and was my favorite).

Even as I type, Mr P is on his way to Goldberg's to get us breakfast. I love that man.

Thank you, Daniel, for hosting this event!

[DanielK]

.. as long as none are more than a couple of hours from an over, the crust, interior, chew and flavor should all be intact and ready for judging.

This is where I think you might be wrong - I think that window is actually less than an hour, not 2 hours. Past an hour the crumb is starting to settle and get dense, and the crust is quickly softening.

[porcupine]

...and in late-breaking news, I'd have to say that Goldberg's is right there in the top tier. Crispy crust and remarkably chewy. Mr P thinks the flavor a little bland, but we both agree it develops on the palate after a few bites.

[TheMatt]

I was there as well. I will say it was pretty staggering the difference between the store-bought brands (Thomas, et al) and the actual bagel places.

I was also pleasantly surprised that Main Street did so well. It's not much of a place, really, but I've liked stopping in there for a bagel when I'm in Fairfax (City).

Now I need to try Goldberg's some Sunday when I'm near it.

[hm212]

This is where I think you might be wrong - I think that window is actually less than an hour, not 2 hours. Past an hour the crumb is starting to settle and get dense, and the crust is quickly softening.

I agree with Dan, the places that I consider my top go to's were all middle of the road to low by both totals and my judging. I think reheating (or toasting) and you have a very different taste (I am sure there is some scientific ingredient reaction reason why - similar to why I do not a lot of vinagrettes just from the bottle but when they are used in stir fry and heated the flavors are very enjoyable and a very different product).

I had gotten the first batch at Royal Bakery at 10am, then Bagel City and Izzy's closer to 10:30 - That extra half hour seemed to make a shocking difference. I normally consider Royal my favorite but it is the furthest away (so maybe they are my favorite for eating on site but not for takeout).

[hm212]

I was in Brooklyn Deli last night and they definitely get their bagels daily from What's a Bagel (Wholesale and catering arm of Bethesda Bagel).

[hm212]

I was there as well. I will say it was pretty staggering the difference between the store-bought brands (Thomas, et al) and the actual bagel places.

The store bought brands were really terrible, I usually keep Thomas in the house but only use toasted and while still cardboardy it will do in a pinch, but I think I will get a much better experience getting a dozen from a real bagel place freezing and toasting.

[squidsdc]

Thanks to Daniel for hosting the event!

I was there as well, and was really surprised. Some of the ones I rated lower because they literally had no flavor. I must note that we were testing only plain bagels and I am of the mind that while a plain bagel may not have flavor, another variety may. I thought Bethesda and Gtwn bagels were quite middling because of their lack of flavor. And so many people love these bagels that it must be the type of bagel that makes the difference. I rated The Bagelry and Main Street the highest, with Ize's not too far behind. I've been to Goldbergs in the past and was not impressed, but as it wasn't in a tasting, I would be interested in the comparison.

I also saw on the WaPo website that there is a bagel place in College Park that is supposed to be very good. I would suggest keeping the top tier ones we did this time but expanding the tasting with Goldbergs, maybe Shalom or Kosher Pantry (whatever place has bagels in Kemp Mill) and def the one in College Park. No need to repeat the supermarket ones since we easily determined these were the bottom of the barrel.

[darkstar965]

I agree with Dan, the places that I consider my top go to's were all middle of the road to low by both totals and my judging. I think reheating (or toasting) and you have a very different taste (I am sure there is some scientific ingredient reaction reason why - similar to why I do not a lot of vinagrettes just from the bottle but when they are used in stir fry and heated the flavors are very enjoyable and a very different product).

I had gotten the first batch at Royal Bakery at 10am, then Bagel City and Izzy's closer to 10:30 - That extra half hour seemed to make a shocking difference. I normally consider Royal my favorite but it is the furthest away (so maybe they are my favorite for eating on site but not for takeout).

This is really interesting. On one hand, having a bagel-off is exactly how best to figure this stuff out. On the other hand, there are multiple variables at play so may be tough to isolate cause and effect. For example, if shop A's bagel was procured fresh out of the oven, shop B's bagel was two hours out and Shop A wins, there's of course the real possibility that shop A is just better than B irrespective of oven timing. Definitely agree reheating (or toasting) changes everything; that's why I think that shouldn't be part of a bagel-off. I've never done a bagel off. But I have had the experience of getting outstanding bagels in NYC, bringing them back to DC and having those same outstanding bagels 5 or 6 hours later. A question for time immemorial (and more bagel offs!).

[zoramargolis]

How many people regularly buy bagel that are still warm out of the oven and eat them on-site? Once in a blue moon, I am at a bagel shop and able to get a still-warm bagel, which is great, but more often I must buy a few that were made hours earlier, then heat them in the oven in a wetted paper bag or toast them when I get home or on the next day or two. To me, it seems as though a "real-world" tasting would be useful--which bagels taste the best re-warmed after they have cooled on the day they are made or on the next day?

[Ericandblueboy]

I only eat onion, garlic, salt, or everything bagels (and bialys). I'd love to attend a tasting if we do seasoned bagels...or have a seasoned bagel component. I've got Chesapeake and Manhattan nearby.

[Joe H]

Could the absolute best New York/New Jersey bagel five hours from the oven not be as good as, say, a Bethesda or Fairfax bagel thirty minutes out?

My luck would be to drive/train/fly to New York, show up at (pick the bagel shop) and be given a dozen five hour old bagels.

I am guessing that my first sentence would have stoked a few snickers if posted on any New York board...

[Lori Gardner]

I also saw on the WaPo website that there is a bagel place in College Park that is supposed to be very good. I would suggest keeping the top tier ones we did this time but expanding the tasting with Goldbergs, maybe Shalom or Kosher Pantry (whatever place has bagels in Kemp Mill) and def the one in College Park. No need to repeat the supermarket ones since we easily determined these were the bottom of the barrel.

I don't think Shalom bagels are worth the trouble- put them in the category with grocery store bagels. I've been to Kosher Pastry Oven in Kemp Mill several times and I've had bagel sandwiches but I don't recall them even selling bagels separately.

and in my opinion, a day old bagel from NYC beats anything right out of the oven in this area. and I am not a NYer...just a lover of NY bagels.

[thetrain]

How many people regularly buy bagel that are still warm out of the oven and eat them on-site?

I get a bagel every work day morning from my local Brueggers, and I'd say 30% of the time I get a still warm bagel. I get the same variety every morning, so I'm guessing if I was less particular I could up the percentage. I agree, there is a significant taste difference if its still warm vs. cold, and I'd take a warm bagel from a middling store over a cold bagel from a superior store any day.

[Ericandblueboy]

I'd like to add that I like chopped chicken liver on my bagel. I'd be up for chopping some liver off.

[Anna Blume]

I may be in the minority on this but my answer to your question would be a horrified and unqualified NO! Good bagels are best non toasted since toasting can neutralize some of the finer points of a great bagel...

I know from not ordering pastrami on white with mayo, but now feel abashed about my first visit to Goldberg's last week. Asking for a toasted bagel w cream cheese, I was disappointed with mine since it didn't even color, let alone change texture. Took it back and explained. "That's toasted," I was told, "you want it dark-toasted. You didn't say." He didn't even look up at me when I asked for a Black Russian to go. So hungry after nearly four hours of errands, I gobbled that plain bagel straight out of the bag and I guess it wasn't just hunger that made it so good. Flesh vs. crust wasn't as chewy as I would have liked, but the bagel was superior to others I buy since I usually pass the place on Saturdays.