Shawarma and Gyros, Processed and Handmade

[mtureck]

I'm actually not concerned about the quality at GRK; I was trying to make a general comment about the area.

In fact your "real meat" comment has me enticed - any chance of having fresh-baked pita with this? If so, it sounds like a winning formula.

A very basic question I've never known the answer to: How do they form "real meat" so it adheres to the cylindrical shape that a spit requires? Is there any binder used at all?

Website says "house baked"...take that as you will.

As to forming the meat, here's a random example...nothing to do with GRK. Just pile it on in a nice shape...

[KeithA]

Website says "house baked"...take that as you will.

As to forming the meat, here's a random example...nothing to do with GRK. Just pile it on in a nice shape...

Ok, so who else is up for a trip to Kos to try that great looking gyro! This is how it is always traditionally done and how you end up with lamb and beef combo - they put different layers of different meat on the spit.  Completely different than your standard pressed meat cone that many shops buy pre-made.  Always look at the spinning spit to see if you can identify the layers of meat (typically still visible even after carved down a lot) - if it is all uniform then you know it wasn't made the traditional way like in this video.

[Joshua Grinnell]

I have to say I was troubled by the situation with the vertical spit roaster doohicky. 

Like the manufacture of the hot dog, this may be more than anyone wants to know, but I believe most commercial shawarma and gyro logs are formed from trimmings that are par-cooked and then high-pressure loaded into cylinders. The rotating spit doesn't cook the meat as much as it browns it, which is how you don't die from eating the hunks that they shave off that haven't browned. On the other hand, holding any meat in the sub-cooked danger zone for that long seems ill-advised, so maybe you're right.

In Jordan I encountered one of the old-fashioned wood-fired shawarma places (they also did rotisserie chicken) and I watched them make the individual spits by stacking flattened raw chicken strips and spices and weighting them down with a brick. Really tasty and without the compressed uniformity you get from the mass produced kind.

Anyone with actual food prep experience, please correct me before I kill us all. On the other hand, we had to eat uncooked hot dogs in the boy scouts when we couldn't get a fire lit and we were fine. Just fine.

[DonRocks]

In Jordan I encountered one of the old-fashioned wood-fired shawarma places (they also did rotisserie chicken) and I watched them make the individual spits by stacking flattened raw chicken strips and spices and weighting them down with a brick. Really tasty and without the compressed uniformity you get from the mass produced kind. 

There was a video of this posted somewhere here within the last year. The difference is so profound that once you see how a real spit is loaded up with real meat ... let's just say that you might not want to watch the video because you'll never again eat an industrial version.

[scroll up to Post #1 in this thread.]

[Kibbee Nayee]

Like the manufacture of the hot dog, this may be more than anyone wants to know, but I believe most commercial shawarma and gyro logs are formed from trimmings that are par-cooked and then high-pressure loaded into cylinders. The rotating spit doesn't cook the meat as much as it browns it, which is how you don't die from eating the hunks that they shave off that haven't browned. On the other hand, holding any meat in the sub-cooked danger zone for that long seems ill-advised, so maybe you're right.

In Jordan I encountered one of the old-fashioned wood-fired shawarma places (they also did rotisserie chicken) and I watched them make the individual spits by stacking flattened raw chicken strips and spices and weighting them down with a brick. Really tasty and without the compressed uniformity you get from the mass produced kind.

Anyone with actual food prep experience, please correct me before I kill us all. On the other hand, we had to eat uncooked hot dogs in the boy scouts when we couldn't get a fire lit and we were fine. Just fine.

Which part of Jordan? The best shawarma I've ever had was in East Jerusalem, which could be sort of considered part of Jordan, or once was....beautiful slices of lamb skewered onto the spit, interspersed with herbs and spices, weighed down by a brick, then roasted upright....my mouth is watering at the the thought....

[Joshua Grinnell]

Which part of Jordan? The best shawarma I've ever had was in East Jerusalem, which could be sort of considered part of Jordan, or once was....beautiful slices of lamb skewered onto the spit, interspersed with herbs and spices, weighed down by a brick, then roasted upright....my mouth is watering at the the thought....

It was in Sweifieh, in Amman. Down the street from this amazing bakery, it was in this open-air corner of a building. The only toppings were a pile of various pickles and some toum.

[Al Dente]

standard pressed meat cone

Mmmm... standard pressed meat cone...

I can still imagine the taste of a REAL gyro in Greece. No meat cones there.

[Pat]

 On the other hand, we had to eat uncooked hot dogs in the boy scouts when we couldn't get a fire lit and we were fine. Just fine. 

That's generally okay, since hotdogs have been precooked.  It's still possible for there to be listeria in the meat, but it's not as unsafe as some other food practices.

I was thrilled when my aunt with dementia was eating hot dogs straight from the fridge, cold, since that meant she was not turning the stove on.  Relative risks.  YMMV.

[The Hersch]

German cities are full of Turkish immigrants and their descendents, and consequently the cities are also full of Döner Kebap joints, same thing as gyros. I had often passed by such places, noting that the rotating vertical spits had what looked to be actual pieces of meat all pressed together, rather than the manufactured food-product we usually see in the U.S. And I could always see how succulent it all was, with juices dripping as the meat revolved. After quite a few years of looking and never eating, one time maybe ten years ago when I was in Munich, I decided to have a meal in one of these places, just across the street from the main railway station. I don't know what the problem was, exactly, but the Döner that looked so alluring in the window tasted like crap in the mouth. Perhaps it was a bad eatery, or an eatery on a bad day, or maybe I was having a bad day. Whatever it was, it was a monumental disappointment. Maybe next time I'm in Germany I'll try another Döner joint.

[deangold]

Yiya's in Beltsville and Yamas in Bethesda and now on 12th have real meat on a spit, whatever they call them.  But the pleasures depend on how long they have been cooking.  Too little and there is no char, too  much and it is all char.  But one pork gyros at Yiyas was right in the sweet spot and really amazing.  

[Ferhat Yalcin]

Watch out for the skewer!

[hillvalley]

Mmmm... standard pressed meat cone...

I can still imagine the taste of a REAL gyro in Greece. No meat cones there.

Last February I had five gyros in seven days in different parts of mainland Greece.  Only one, at a random gas station/restaurant somewhere between Athens and Olympia, was worth remembering.

The gyro I had in the Latin Quarter in Paris this past fall was as good, if not better, than most I had in Greece.  It had a perfect ratio of crispy to succulent meat and the meat was better seasoned, whatever that means.

German cities are full of Turkish immigrants and their descendents, and consequently the cities are also full of Döner Kebap joints, same thing as gyros. I had often passed by such places, noting that the rotating vertical spits had what looked to be actual pieces of meat all pressed together, rather than the manufactured food-product we usually see in the U.S. And I could always see how succulent it all was, with juices dripping as the meat revolved. After quite a few years of looking and never eating, one time maybe ten years ago when I was in Munich, I decided to have a meal in one of these places, just across the street from the main railway station. I don't know what the problem was, exactly, but the Döner that looked so alluring in the window tasted like crap in the mouth. Perhaps it was a bad eatery, or an eatery on a bad day, or maybe I was having a bad day. Whatever it was, it was a monumental disappointment. Maybe next time I'm in Germany I'll try another Döner joint.

The Doner Kebab was invented in Germany by a Turk, so the prevalence makes sense.

[zoramargolis]

think puerco al pastor. it's what happened when a Lebanese guy emigrated to Mexico with one of those vertical grills.

[The Hersch]

The Doner Kebab was invented in Germany by a Turk, so the prevalence makes sense.

 

The Wikipedia article offers no support for the Telegraph article you link to, but who knows? (As usual, I'm skeptical of a single-inventor origin story for a dish, (like cioppino, discussed here a year or two ago) but I have no particular knowledge in this area.)

[hillvalley]

When Mr. Nurman died last year it was covered throughout Europe.  I think it's fair to say he is the inventor of the modern day Donner Kebab but that there is a long history of cooking meat in this tradition throughout Middle Eastern cuisine.

[The Hersch]

When Mr. Nurman died last year it was covered throughout Europe.  I think it's fair to say he is the inventor of the modern day Donner Kebab but that there is a long history of cooking meat in this tradition throughout Middle Eastern cuisine.

I remain deeply skeptical. "Covered throughout Europe" or even "widely reported in the press" does not begin to equal "true". Not only does Wikipedia, with millions of readers vetting and updating its articles, provide no support at all for the Nurman claim to have invented the modern Döner kebap, but this Telegraph article from 2009 directly contradicts the Telegraph article from 2013 that you link to, instead crediting the invention to Mahmut Aygun, when he died four years earlier. And this 2013 article from the Guardian flatly rejects the Nurman claim (and casts doubt, in line with my thinking, on any claim of a single inventor).

[DonRocks]

[On the surface, this discussion seems persnickety, but I'm actually finding it fascinating. Please keep going, and remember both people are highly intelligent and deserving of much respect.]

[The Hersch]

[On the surface, this discussion seems persnickety, but I'm actually finding it fascinating. Please keep going, and remember both people are highly intelligent and deserving of much respect.]

If only there were someone offering this kind of direction in the rest of my life.

[DonRocks]

Watch out for the skewer!

What's he doing, pressing down the meat?

Either way it, seems to be a feat. (Pun, Rhyme)

Lucky for him he was standing instead of sitting.

[darkstar965]

I don't mean this so much as a WDID? or quiz type question, since I'm not 100% sure myself. No one would ever, in a zillion years, guess where this is. Not asking that.

My question: real or not? (Big apologies if upside down)

[ktmoomau]

I don't mean this so much as a WDID? or quiz type question, since I'm not 100% sure myself. No one would ever, in a zillion years, guess where this is. Not asking that.

My question: real or not? (Big apologies if upside down)

image.jpg

Lebanese Taverna Market???  Not sure on the real or not.

Speaking of doner kebab, we had outrageously good doner kebab by a place right by our hotel in Dubai. It appears to be a chain, but no US locations. http://www.donerkebab.ae/

[darkstar965]

Lebanese Taverna Market???  Not sure on the real or not.

Speaking of doner kebab, we had outrageously good doner kebab by a place right by our hotel in Dubai. It appears to be a chain, but no US locations. http://www.donerkebab.ae/

Literally, laughing out loud, kt! Seriously, it's virtually impossible for anyone to guess where this is. It would be totally unfair to ask that and it would big time violate at least a couple of WDID and common sensical rules.

I ask real or not because the discussion upthread has been very insightful, detailed and related to that.

Thanks for playing though! :-)

[wfwalsh]

Just like Arby's!

[darkstar965]

Just to close the loop here, this was in a place outside Boston that is great for lunch and I'll include in a summary post on the Intrepid Traveler thread shortly.

It is real. The proprietor makes them daily and sounds pretty labor intensive. She also told me she doesn't make them with lamb or beef because those are too oily or difficult to work with...or something like that which didn't totally make sense to me.

[Ferhat Yalcin]

 She also told me she doesn't make them with lamb or beef because those are too oily or difficult to work with...or something like that which didn't totally make sense to me.

It is true, making traditional `Turkish Doner` is very labor intensive. Layering all the thin slices of beef and lamb takes time. There are also layers of fat added to give more flavor. I also find it interesting why she would not use oily meat.

[darkstar965]

It is true, making traditional `Turkish Doner` is very labor intensive. Layering all the thin slices of beef and lamb takes time. There are also layers of fat added to give more flavor. I also find it interesting why she would not use oily meat.

Very interesting, Ferhat. The place is in Newton, MA and I think the proprietor is Eastern European. Everything is made from scratch and is excellent but, when I asked about the doner, she lit up with pride affirming they were made from scratch but then waved me off with a bit of a frown when I asked about beef or lamb variants. I'll ask next time there. She's actually very nice, my description here notwithstanding.

[DanielK]

Yiya's in Beltsville and Yamas in Bethesda and now on 12th have real meat on a spit, whatever they call them.  But the pleasures depend on how long they have been cooking.  Too little and there is no char, too  much and it is all char.  But one pork gyros at Yiyas was right in the sweet spot and really amazing.  

Missed this post earlier, but Dean is spot on. The Pork Gyro at Yia Yia's in Beltsville and the Beef/Lamb Gyro at Yamas in Bethesda are the two best gyros I have ever eaten.

[zoramargolis]

Shemali's Cafe, in the New Mexico Ave. office building that houses Ace Beverage has a vertical grill for chicken schwarma, which they serve either as a platter or rolled in a flatbread with lettuce and tahini sauce.

[darkstar965]

Shemali's Cafe, in the New Mexico Ave. office building that houses Ace Beverage has a vertical grill for chicken schwarma, which they serve either as a platter or rolled in a flatbread with lettuce and tahini sauce.

Guessing it's really good?  Don't think there's a thread here yet for that.  Their website here.

[darkstar965]

After a big lunch today and just cooking for one with my +1 out of town, defrosted some of my not-so-famous but really-good broccoli/parmesan/lemon soup with slices of BreadFrust levain and kerrygold. Perfect.