Escoffier

Venice, Italy

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Our first trip to Venice and thanks to Dean Gold, a very tasty one. Restaurants we particularly enjoyed in no real order:

Al Mascaron - a true bacaro. Our first taste of genuine Sarde and Saor

Trattoria da Fiore - San Marco - Spaghetti with pomodoro and huge prawns

Rosa Salva - The best pastry in Venice

Da Alvise - on the Fondamenta Nove - great Caprese, risotto with pesce accompanied by a 2002 Tamellini Soave that was wonderful.

Da Pinto - a huge collection of wines with a wonderful restaurant wrapped around it. Thanks to Dean, we had a great meal and couple of complimentary glasses of limoncello when Milan beat Lyon in football.

Ai Tre Spiedi - a tiny workingman's restaurant. Tables are crowded, the diners friendly, the house wine a very good vin rouge. Inexpensive and good. Try the salumi.

It's hard to go wrong in Venice. Follow the locals, stay away from the tourist areas (San Marco, Doge's Palace, any place where gondoliers ask if you want a ride), explore alleyways, you'll find a lot of excellent food.

On the side trip to Verona (slightly off-topic but definitely food related)...Ristorante Greppia. On a side street near the famous Montague/Capulet Balcony...the bolisto misto, a plate of boiled meats. There was tongue, cheek, and seven more. Tastes much better than it sounds.

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Almost six years ago I first promoted Osteria Alle Testiere on Chowhound's International board. It had never been mentioned there or, to the best of my knowledge, on any other internet board before this. I raved about this 30 seat, two seating a night with no menu nondescript treasure and now almost every guide book and internet message board also raves about it. It is worth a visit.

In Verona Al Pompiere is well worth a visit. I am not a fan of the two star Il Desco there. My wife and I have stayed in Verona at least once every year or two for the past ten ("Gabbia d'Or" is a wonderful centrally located five star hotel) and love this city, perhaps as much as any other Italian city excepting Venice.) It is an extraordinary experience to attend the opera in the two thousand year old amphitheatre in the center of Verona: if you go you should buy tickets months in advance. It is popular and known around the world as a one of a kind experience/adventure. Vin Italy is also a huge event which occurs in February every year.

The walled city of Soave (center of the wine consortium for the Veneto) which is halfway between Verona and Vicenza (which has been a "base" for me on business trips for years) is also host to several excellent restaurants. This is literally less than a km off of the Autostrada. I return there in two weeks and look forward to returning to Lo Scudo which is considered the best restaurant in the region and is just outside of the walled city. About seven or eight miles south of Soave is the two Michelin star Perbellini which is an outstanding restaurant and well worth the detour.

Last, anyone visiting this area should give serious consideration to a visit to the three Michelin star Le Calandre in Rubano which many consider to be the best restaurant in Italy. It is easy to find, only two turns off of the Autostrada to Venice. But you must reserve two to three months in advance.

Edited by Joe H

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Theres this little gastropub in an unusual part of town call Anice Stellato. It was owned/operated by a bunch of late 20s hipsters. They were really staying true to the Venice former maritime power/spice hub idea. All of the fresh seafood from the lagoon spiced with curries, mustards and cardamoms. It really showcases the uniqueness of Venetian cuisine.

Also while my friend(Johnny Nielsen/Dino) and I were there, we found his wet dream restauarant La Cantina: 20 seats, little raw bar, big mortadella on a tiny little bar, boutiquie wine selection and a lone waitress that looked like Paris Hilton(married to the owner/chef). Crostinis of cured mackerel with over easy duck eggs, sea bass crudo and raw head on prawns.

These two places really had no interests in catering to the tourist which was what them so special.

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I wrote the following to my sister after a trip to Italy last May:

I'm afraid we didn't follow any of your suggestions for dining in Venice, Diana, although I'm sure we would have been happy if we had. But we ate at two magnificent places, which I herewith recommend to you. The first is called Al Mascaron, the second, which is even better, is called Alle Testiere. They're both on streets that run into the Campo Santa Maria Formosa, which is quite near where we were staying. Mascaron is on Calle Longa Santa Maria Formosa, Testiere on Calle del Mondo Novo. Alle Testiere is tiny (about 20 places), and booking is necessary--but we got a reservation by popping in to ask for one at about 10 pm of the night before. They have two seatings, at 7:00 and 9:30, and a limited menu that the waiter will convey to you orally (in English, French, German, or Italian). I had moleche to start. These are tiny little softshelled crabs that are a specialty of the northern Adriatic, and are wonderful. Each one is only about one bite. They were fried and then marinated. These were followed by gnocchi so light they nearly floated off the plate…the best I ever had, and then a wonderful John Dory with fresh herbs. Wonderful. I had some grilled fresh sardines in Murano the next day.

I think the "waiter" who recited the menu at Alle Testiere was actually one of the owners.

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We have been to Venice nine or ten times over the past 15 years and have posted extensively on our experiences on both CH and eG. On the upcoming trip I am looking for somewhere new to compliment a return visit to Alle Testiere which we have fallen in love with over the years and have been back to on every trip. Over time we have also eaten at, probably thirty or more other restaurants ranging from da Fiore to Corte Sconta to Fiescheterria Toscana, all of these dating back to the early '90's. This is very specific since many restaurants are closed on Monday evening which is the night I am "researching."

Has anyone been to:

1. Osteria di Santa Maria

2. Canaletto

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We have been to Venice nine or ten times over the past 15 years and have posted extensively on our experiences on both CH and eG. On the upcoming trip I am looking for somewhere new to compliment a return visit to Alle Testiere which we have fallen in love with over the years and have been back to on every trip. Over time we have also eaten at, probably thirty or more other restaurants ranging from da Fiore to Corte Sconta to Fiescheterria Toscana, all of these dating back to the early '90's. This is very specific since many restaurants are closed on Monday evening which is the night I am "researching."

Has anyone been to:

1. Osteria di Santa Maria

2. Canaletto

Joe, PM Dean Gold. He pointed us to some great restaurants in Venice and I'm sure he can do the same for you. He spends as much time in Venice as he does in Cleveland Park.

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Joe, PM Dean Gold. He pointed us to some great restaurants in Venice and I'm sure he can do the same for you. He spends as much time in Venice as he does in Cleveland Park.

I read his excellent lengthy report on Slow Traveller and it did not include either of these. I'm actually being very specific in the two restaurants I'm asking about. Thanks...

Edited by Joe H

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2. Canaletto
Is this the restaurant in the Hotel Canaletto? I stayed at the hotel a year or two ago (it's fairly nice for a fairly reasonable Venice hotel in a great central location), and we thought of trying the restaurant, which looked like it might be good, but we never did. I realize how utterly unhelpful this is, but I'm just curious if that's the place you're asking about.

ETA: Actually, the restaurant I'm thinking of isn't strictly speaking in the hotel. It's in the same building (or I suppose it might be the building next door, but I think it's in the same building), but there's no access to it from inside the hotel. It has a separate entrance outside.

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I'm not sure if it's in a hotel or connected with the hotel of the same name. I've made the decision to go to Osteria di Santa Marina based on L'espresso and a couple of other guides along with liking the photos on their website. I'm sure we'll walk by the other restaurant and check it out while we're there. Thanks for the response!

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Going to Venice for the first time the day after Xmas. Staying near San Marco. Looking for really good food at reasonable prices (i.e., $200 a meal for 2, not $500 a meal for 2).

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Going to Venice for the first time the day after Xmas. Staying near San Marco. Looking for really good food at reasonable prices (i.e., $200 a meal for 2, not $500 a meal for 2).
I was going to recommend Al Covo, but I just checked and I think they are closed from December 15 to January 15.

Although not as near San Marco, we had a wonderful meal at a restaurant called Oniga. Good food, good wine list. It is located in the Campo San Barnaba between Ca Rezzonico and Accademia. And, next door to it is a great organic gourmet food and wine shop called Pantagruelica. Definitely worth stopping in to see what's available.

For something less expensive, we have had good luck with tramezzini in a local small cafe/bars. Tramezzini are sandwiches that you order by the half. I recommend going of the beaten path and looking at what is displayed in the window of the local cafes. If the sandwiches in the window look good, go on in.

This is probably stating the obvious, but at all costs, avoid restaurants on the main drags that have pictures on their menus and employees outside enticing you to come in.

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I apologize for my redundant comments but Alle Testiere continues as one of my favorite restaurants anywhere. From two years ago Osteria Santa Maria ended up as a mediocre experience. The Met, a Michelin star from last year, was excellent. Somehow it has lost its star and, perhaps, it's"hot" lustre. Da Fiore continues as one of Venice's best restaurants. Yet, I liked it more in the early and mid '90's when it was less than half the current price. Al Covo is very good (superb, exemplery fritto misto and very good risotto) as are a half dozen other places. Yet, enduringly, Alle Testiere with a endless number of mentions on many, many websites, continues as what I think is as good of a restaurant as Venice has to offer. The two owners are incredibly passionate; one of them is fluent in at least seven languages. He even responds to e-mails while he and his partner, the chef, are on vacation. I just cannot rave about this restaurant enough.

Again, you MUST reserve several weeks or more in advance. It is well known by now.

And, once again, I mention Le Calandre in Rubano a "suburb" of Padua. This is 35 km from Venice, an easy drive (literally two turns from the Venetian parking garage) and considered by many to be Italy's best restaurant. Yes, it has three Michelin stars. But for me this is the current equal of any restaurant on earth. (I love hyperbole but with five visits now it has lived up to this every time.)

www.calandre.com

Yes, very expensive (i.e. prix fixe around E160) but a dinner for a lifetime and worth dieting for here.

PS hope for fog, cold weather, snow. Serious. Venice is our favorite city on earth; even more so when the weather is so bad you cannot see more than several meters or a Vaporetto could float up to a stop and, despite the closeness, your not knowing it is there. We've also been there when they hoisted up the Christmas tree in San Marco. Don't overlook a trip to Cemetery Island or the Lido. AND, the best advice you will receive on any message board or website: many of the Vaporettos have seats IN FRONT OF THE BOAT'S CABIN. Perhaps three rows of four each outdoors. Incredible seats. Try them if it's not too cold or windy. LOOK FOR THEM. This is literally like having your own boat and sitting outside, cruising the Venetian canal. You won't even be aware of the floating "bus" behind you.

We leave for Rome on Sunday for our annual vacation; both of now believe we should have gone to Venice instead.

Venice, before, during and after Christmas will provide memories for the nursing home...

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Almost six years ago I first promoted Osteria Alle Testiere on Chowhound's International board. It had never been mentioned there or, to the best of my knowledge, on any other internet board before this. I raved about this 30 seat, two seating a night with no menu nondescript treasure and now almost every guide book and internet message board also raves about it. It is worth a visit.

Just as an aside, I read that post on CH and, several years later (2 or so years ago) went based on your post plus a bunch of subsequent agreements from CH, Mouthfulsfood and other board folk. We had a great dinner there and wound up sitting next to a woman who eats there 3-4 nights/week. Great owners, lovely place and clearly well known to "us folk" as we also wound up talking to a table for 6 from Park Slope, Brooklyn (we live in Brooklyn too). I hardly ever recommend based on one dinner but this was an exceptional meal. Nice post. Thanks. :lol:

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AND, the best advice you will receive on any message board or website: many of the Vaporettos have seats IN FRONT OF THE BOAT'S CABIN. Perhaps three rows of four each outdoors. Incredible seats. Try them if it's not too cold or windy. LOOK FOR THEM. This is literally like having your own boat and sitting outside, cruising the Venetian canal. You won't even be aware of the floating "bus" behind you.

Solid.

Second best advice may be to hit one of the vaporetto routes that goes back & forth across the Giudecca canal & eventually approaches a stop near the Doges' Palace, & to time that so that you're approaching Venice near sunset. The colors in the sky can make that a magical little trip.

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It is cheaper to visit when it's cold, but I've seen pictures of Venice covered in snow and I would love to see that with my own eyes. We will bring warm clothes and hopefully experience Venice unlike the masses do in the summer, with fetid canal water and overflowing crowds. I've got to get started on making dinner reservation too.

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It is cheaper to visit when it's cold, but I've seen pictures of Venice covered in snow and I would love to see that with my own eyes. We will bring warm clothes and hopefully experience Venice unlike the masses do in the summer, with fetid canal water and overflowing crowds. I've got to get started on making dinner reservation too.

Venice can be a quiet experience even during touristy times (like Carnevale). Just move out of the San Marco to Rialto to the Accademia triangle and you are in a sleepy little town with wonderful bars and small restaurants and very nice people who are glad to see you. We have been in Venezia in the snow and it was wet and goopy and not picturesque. It is always fun to see signs saying the Vaporetto line is not working because of fog! The Traghetti are also subject to this interruption. But Venice in the winter is pretty magical... get up at 6am and walk to the Rialto Fish Market, stopping at Bar Marca in the Erboria for caffe and tremezzini. You will be the only non working person out and to hear your own footsteps echo is amazing!.

For stuff to do that's a little off the beaten path:

Carpaccio Freschi in San Georgio degli Schiavoni

Ca Rezzonico

Ca d'Oro

The churches on Giudecca and Lido, the Jewish cemetery there too.

The Ghetto

Taking the 44 line entirely around the main islands of Venice.

Torcello

Tintoretto's greatest hits at San Rocco

Frari

The Stations of the cross at San Polo

Get the Chorus Pass and go to all the churches in numerical order. It doesn't matter which number you start with, but just keep going in either direction till you get to the end and then start at the other end. this will give you an amazing tour of Venice and let you see incredible art and small neighborhoods that most never see. It is ridiculously cheap (8 or 12 Euro) and at each church, you get a great explanation of the history and art you are seeing.

For glass go to Murano and get off at Collona and go to F Schiavon to see the work of the only Japanese glass master in Venezia, Tuschida. Tell them Dean of Maryland sent you.

For restaurants/Wine Bars:

La Frasca- amazingly fresh seafood, they buy their fish from friends with their own boats so you are getting today's catch any day of the week.

Vini da Gigio - straightforward food, great wine list, outstanding quality ingredients

Fischetteria Toscana - my favorite, superb traditional foods. Ask for Roberto as your waiter and let him chose the wine and food for you and then let him tell you how to enjoy it as well. The best cheese course I have ever had. Very expensive but we always manage to have one meal there.

La Cantina on Strada Nuova - great wine bar rumored to have morphed into a real restaurant but I do not know. Back when they only had a hot plate, they made great stuff. Let them suggest but it can add up quickly. Its worth it but 50 euro a person for snacks and wine is a real possibility. SO is 100 or 15o Euro if you go crazy with the Dal Forno, quintarelli and Gravner. But this is the joint to do it at!

Bar La Marca - great wines by the glass and small sandwiches. We go there 1-3 times a day when we are in Venezia.

Vitus Venezia - freat wine bar with great sandwices. Non local wines predominate.

Gli Schivoni alle Botegon - old fashioned place with lots of old red nosed venetian men speaking dialect and drinking heavily.

Alle Vedova although I understand the manager and cooks have left to go open or take over another spot.

Da Pinto- Pinto is a trip (you will recognize him by his wrinkled white shirt that is coming out of his pants.... he will be burried like that I am sure). Stay away from the touristico menus and order grilled fish and cicchetti. Cheap & good right in the Rialto Fish market area.

We have eaten at Alle Testiere since 1999 and it is quite good, but do realize it is very modern interpretation of traditional fare. If you want the more traditional versions directly, some of the above places are more apt to have it.

Anice Stellato - incredibly scholarly approach to the ancient cuisine of Venice. Amazing raw seafood especially

Do Mori - incredible traditional snacks eaten standing up. Buy the local cheap crap wine, its what you are supposed to drink. Great Fragolino which is a sweet wine with a touch of fizz and very low alcohol. Musetto is pig snout sausage served on a sandwich or on a plate with fasoi (fagioli to the rest of Italy, beans!). We will often go once a day or more if we are in the area.

BancoGiro in the Erboria area or maybe the next piazetta over. Good food, good wine (if they have it in stock, their inventory gets run down in off season) and they are open all day so go at off hours. Upstairs is romantic & there are a couple of tables with a view of the Canale Grande. We had a view of the most unbelievably attractive 20 something Venetians making out for our meal! We may have had the better view!

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Just as an aside, I read that post on CH and, several years later (2 or so years ago) went based on your post plus a bunch of subsequent agreements from CH, Mouthfulsfood and other board folk. We had a great dinner there and wound up sitting next to a woman who eats there 3-4 nights/week. Great owners, lovely place and clearly well known to "us folk" as we also wound up talking to a table for 6 from Park Slope, Brooklyn (we live in Brooklyn too). I hardly ever recommend based on one dinner but this was an exceptional meal. Nice post. Thanks. :lol:

Thanks for the really nice words. Much appreciated!!!!

Joe

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What should we order in Venice?

My wife would taste seafood but she's not going to order a branzino or a sea bream by herself. She basically only eats shrimp and scallops as far as seafood goes. What's a non-seafood person to order for primi, secondi?

What are some things I should try in Venice (I'll eat anything)? I love linguine alla vongole?

We might have to go to Dino and take a lesson on what to order in Venice.

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Is this a good place as warm-up for our impending trip to Venice? We're gonna hit Dino this weekend. Maybe we can do Spezie the following weekend.

Given how much water is in Venice right now, you might want to consider d'Acqua as a warm-up.

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Given how much water is in Venice right now, you might want to consider d'Acqua as a warm-up.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/12/01/...-High-Water.php

My wife and I have spent a week nine or ten times out of the last fifteen Decembers in Venice. Several times we've seen water rise near the top of the tables that you walk on to cross San Marco Square. Still, we've never seen it so high that they couldn't put the tables out as they were unable to do this year.

On the other hand standing in a dry San Marco Square watching the snow fall on the 20m tall Christmas tree may be one of the most beautiful sights on earth.

Venice is worth the risk. The most beautiful city on earth.

I'm editing this post to add this more serious link from today's London Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle5266829.ece

It notes that tourists are being advised to stay away from Venice for the moment because of the incrediblly high water.

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Given how much water is in Venice right now, you might want to consider d'Acqua as a warm-up.

very funny, MF. :lol:

I just checked Spezie's menu. Kinda expensive....maybe we'll do Dino twice.

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Is this a good place as warm-up for our impending trip to Venice? We're gonna hit Dino this weekend. Maybe we can do Spezie the following weekend.

Don't dare come back to D. C. without going to Alle Testiere!

As for warmups ten of us go to Goldoni in a couple of weeks. I'd also revisit Roberto.

Note: this is the link to another article about Venice's flooding which is far more serious and notes that "tourists should stay away." http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle5266829.ece

We have been there several times when water approached the top of the tables they set set up to cross San Marco-but never when it was so high that it caused them to float. If your trip is later in December or January you are probably all right but this may be very good advice for right now.

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Don't dare come back to D. C. without going to Alle Testiere!

We have been there several times when water approached the top of the tables they set set up to cross San Marco-but never when it was so high that it caused them to float. If your trip is later in December or January you are probably all right but this may be very good advice for right now.

We're leaving the night after Xmas and will return on New Years eve.

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SpidercrabFiaschetteriaToscana.jpg

SpaghettiwithClamsFiaschetteriaTosc.jpg

MolechesoftshellcrabsFiaschetteriaT.jpg

Alle Testiere was closed for vacation and maintenance. :P

The first evening, we signed up for a bar crawl. At our first stop, we sampled smoked salmon (good), a steaming plate full of boiled tripe (tender but not very flavorful), and a platter of cold-cuts (ham, mortadella, salami, and cheese). At our second stop, we had baccalà, a very fishy cod spread that was delicious to me but appalling to Annie. At our final stop, we had a skewer of fried vegetables (artichokes, cauliflower, mushroom, etc.), a delicious hashbrown (tasted like a Spanish tortilla), and a kibbeh type of meat dish (fried dough with ground meat in the middle).

For dinner on our second evening, we went to Vini da Gigio in the Cannaregio district. This is a good restaurant off the beaten path. When we arrived at 7, we were told we could have a table only if we were done by 9. I started with a plate of mixed Venetian specialties as an appetizer, which consisted of a scallop with coral, two little clams, schie (tiny shrimp) with creamy polenta, fried baccalà, and fried polenta square. The schie and baccalà were good, the rest not so good. My first course was tagliolini (thin pasta) with crabmeat in a light tomato sauce, which was very good. My second course was eel grilled until its skin is crisp. It was a simple dish but cooked perfectly. Annie started with a Caprese salad, then had arugula ravioli in parmesan cream sauce, and ended with a Venetian duck. The duck was positively medieval. It was stewed in a red-wine sauce until the meat is red and falling off the bones. Neither of us really liked it. €155 for dinner (with a €45 bottle of wine and dessert).

While we were in the San Polo district, we saw a pizzeria that had New York style pizza by the slice (on Rughetta Ruga). They have both thin crust and Sicilian style thick crust pizza with various toppings. We of course had to get a slice (for a very late afternoon lunch). It looks much better than the pizza served at local bars but isn’t as good as the pizza at Bebo or even Church Street Pizza.

Finding a good place for dinner was nearly impossible on a Monday night during the off-season. We first went to Fiaschetteria Toscana, which claims to close only on Tuesdays on their website, but it was closed. We then went to Osteria di Santa Marina (which is open according to Rick Steve) but it was closed. So we settled for Osteria il Milion for dinner on our 3rd evening, a good restaurant according to Rick Steve that’s next to where Marco Polo used to live.

I started with a Venetian classic, sardine with onions. The fish was served cold, topped with some sautéed onions and black pepper. My first course was spaghetti with clams (my favorite Italian pasta dish of all time). This version came out dry, with tiny Venetian clams. The flavor was good but the tiny Venetian clams left me wanting something more substantial. My second course was seppia (cuttlefish) sautéed in its own ink. The flavor is quite nice but the seppia itself was rather chewy and overcooked. Annie had the artichoke soup, which consisted of pureed artichokes baked with some cheese. It was a thick and hearty soup. She then had gnocchi in a vodka sauce. These gnocchi were large and firm, which I find less than appealing. She ended with veal scallopini in white wine sauce, which neither of us really cared for. We also shared some grilled vegetables (zucchini, yellow squash and eggplant brushed with olive oil – bland). Il Milion is a moderately priced restaurant, €100 for dinner (with a €25 bottle of wine and no dessert).

On our last day, after a chilly ride around Venice in a vaporetto, we went back to Fiaschetteria Toscana for lunch. They officially open at 12:30. We arrived a little earlier and were allowed in to have a seat but weren’t served until the waiters arrived. This place is expensive but they had stuff on the menu that I couldn’t find elsewhere. I started with a spider crab cooked with a little olive oil and butter and served in its shell. A very simple preparation but the flavor of the crab shines through. I followed with another spaghetti with clams, this one with a little sauce at the bottom. I finished with tiny fried soft-shell crabs (much smaller than the ones we get in the U.S.). Annie had a bean and pasta soup, and lobster ravioli with broccoli sauce. We also shared some fried zucchini, leeks, and radicchio. This is by far the best meal we had in Venice. €118 (just 3 glasses of cheap red wine for me and no dessert).

That evening, we went to dinner at Da Pinto, a cheap restaurant known for good food near the Rialto fish market. Da Pinto was woefully understaffed that night. There was one waiter, the owner who was not particularly helpful, and a real numbnut of a busboy (who cleared the wine off a table of diners who went outside to smoke, but it was obvious that they’re still in the restaurant because their coats were still hanging over their chairs). I had a huge plate of Parma ham, shrimp and mushroom spaghetti (overcooked shrimp), and grilled sardines. I didn’t finish any of the food, partly because I was not very hungry and partly because it wasn’t very good. The shrimp was overcooked and the sardines weren’t flavored with anything other than olive oil. Annie’s lasagna reminded me of high school cafeteria food and her four-cheese pizza had blue cheese on it. €56 (3 beers for me and no dessert).

Looking back, I wasn't really crazy about Venetian food.

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