dgreen

Look here.

I love the shrimp and grits. I believe it's also at Carlyle. BTW, the dish is named "Sauteed Shrimp & Creamy Grit Cakes", so I'm not sure why you weren't expecting a grit cake.

My kids are not of soda-drinking age. I think the only thing they ever order is milk, juice, or lemonade. Now, I really can't say where the juice or lemonade come from. Lemonade is almost certainly from a fountain at most places. Juice, not sure. But, I honestly have never paid for a refill. Not sure why my experience is so different from others.

Luckily I avoid Chuck e Cheese.

Oh, I was only using chips and salsa as an analogy about expectations. Mexican places tend to offer complimentary chips and salsa, thus the expectation. AF does not appear, to a first-timer, as anything different than any other restaurant in any other strip mall in any other NoVa suburb. At first glance, I'd expect similar things there as other restaurants of "its kind." At first, "its kind" is defined very broadly for a first-timer. I think so, too. It may even be a geographical thing. I remember being in Cape Cod about 8 years ago and a few places did not offer free refills on sodas. I found that odd at the time. And I think the only roadblock is in understanding that is their situation. As I said, AF's general appearence is going to be that they are similar to other places until you go there and realize it is different. (Or until you get the bill and realize it is different. ) They seem to want to be different, but that isn't easily recognizable by simply walking in. Good points. My only point would be that it's the larger, more established, or multi-location chain-type places that tend to establish expectations. If I drive through Ashburn and eat at a different joint every night, I'm going to mainly hit chain places. Let's say I eat at 10 chain places before coming across AF. All my experience is going to lead me to believe my kid's second milk will not be an extra $2. That comes from the 10 places I just ate at and the fact that AF really doesn't appear to anything different at first glance. I can definitely see how I've made some believe otherwise, but I really don't see this as being anything more than mildly irritating either. I'm not looking for them to change anything. They can do as they please. I now understand why they do what they do. Thanks to the conversation here, I get why they charge more for their beverages. My only real argument here is about expectations.

I agree the question is: What is a reasonable expectation? So far, I seem to be in the minority. Let's try this as an analogy: Do you expect complimentary chips and salsa at a Mexican restaurant?

I think we need to take a step back in this discussion. I'm new to this MB. (Maybe that explains a lot.) I quickly realized I am different from the frequent posters here. I've never heard of many of the restuarants many of you praise. (I am glad to be learning, though. I wish I found this board when both my wife and I were working and we had no kids and frequently ate out.) However, while I'm not the typical poster on this board, I appear to be much closer to the typical resident in Ashburn than some of you. In fact, I think I've read some posts that would indicate many of you would admit to not representing an average suburbanite. There's an obvious disconnect here when I see several posters have different expectations and one even says that "many places" only offer free refills on ice tea and coffee. From my experience in NoVa, here is what I expect to be a free refill: Adult sodas and ice tea. I'm not a big coffee drinker, so I have no expectation there. Certain root beers tend to not be free refills. All kids drinks. If I'm in an upscale place, I have no expectations regarding drink refills. If I'm in DC, I'll expect some differences just because things tend to be different "in the city." However, I'm going to guess that the vast majority of restaurants in a typical NoVa neighborhood are going to be along the lines of my above expectations. I'm curious if the expectations contrary to mine are from a DC or suburban state of mind.

"Raised" as in they are grown up now and your experiences are from 20 years ago? If so, things have changed. I'm 31. I can remember a time when even adult sodas weren't free refills in many places. For a while, I had no expectation of receiving free refills on sodas. Today, I'd be absolutely shocked to be charged for my Coke refills. It's now an expectation. Again, the only reason I expect free refills is because all my experience as a parent is that my kids get free refills. I don't expect a free refill on my flatbread because I have absolutely no experience with free food refills. It's simply not part of the culture. That would be an insanely unrealistic expectation. Similarly, to bring this all back to AF, I expect to have a great flatbread next time I go to AF. The more I eat there and have good food, the more solid my expectations will be and the more amazed I'll be when my expectations are not met. On the flip side, by charging $2 for a kids drink and $2 for each refill, they're losing a few extra dollars because I'll order water. And, more importantly, if someday we're going out to dinner and we want to get something other than water, they'll lose the $40 my family would have paid for dinner. I'm not expecting AF to change to meet my wants. I'm am a HUGE fan of the free market and they can do whatever they want. I just think my opinion on refills and $8 for kids drinks is probably somewhat in line with those of their target customers.

My EXPECTATION is unlimited free refills on kids drinks. That's my expectation because, in four years as a parent, I've never experienced anything else. Heck, I've been to plenty of places that don't charge us at all for kids drinks, but I certainly don't expect that. I really don't think they'd do much damage. When we're talking kids drinks, they come in maybe an 8 oz. cup. My kids rarely drink more than two of those. Are profit margins really that tight at restaurants that an extra 8 oz. of milk per child is going to close the doors? Now, AF, I believe, only offers organic juices and milk, so that's different. Maybe that is a bigger hit to their bottom line.

Interesting. I honestly can't remember one other place I've had to pay for refills for kids. Clay, thanks for the response. I look forward to more flatbreads (and water ) in Ashburn.

Took the family to AF tonight. First the good... The flatbreads were excellent. Due to my wife's desire to not eat cute little baby lamb's, we skipped the special (lamb sausage) and went with the Virginia Sausage. Loved the sundried tomatoes and caramelized onions. There was a nice sweetness in certain bites. The sausage and mushrooms were also extremely tasty. As everyone else says, the crust is perfect. We ordered the kids the "cheap" flatbread (Cheese and Herb). I liked that they brought it out first, when it was ready. The kids were able to get started and it was a nice appetizer for us. It was like a REALLY good cheese bread. With minimal ingredients, you could easily taste each one, especially the garlic oil. While the prices were high, I thought the flatbreads were certainly worth it. Now the bad... Drinks. I see Clay addressed this concerning Coke and Pepsi products. That's not my problem. My wife and I decided to order water anyways to save $5. Then there were the kids drinks. We have 3 kids, ages 4, 2, and a few weeks. i'm guessing we aare the target customer. The waitress asked us what the kids want to drink. I asked what drinks they have for kids. She said apple juice and milk. So, one kid ordered milk, the other apple juice. They came in cute little kids cups with animals on them and we'll have those in our house for a while and get good use out of them. So far, so good. They were both somewhat thirsty and needed refills. So, we asked for refills. We got refills. Then the bill arrives. Kids drinks are $2? That seems expensive, but not a big deal. Live and learn, I guess What is a big deal, to me at least, is that we were charged for the refills and were not told about it. That's right, we paid $8 for kids drinks! That's ridiculous. If you want to be in Ashburn because of families, then don't charge us for refills on expensive kids' drinks. It's not like their downing 5 cups of juice. I don't think a toddler is going to put you under by taking advantage of free refills. At the very least, tell us. It is expected, especially in the burbs, that refills are free. If that's not the way you want to run things, that's cool, but tell us. Anything short of having the waiter clearly say so, NOBODY in a community like Ashburn is going to assume they have to pay for kids' refills. Anyways, rant over. We'll definitely return. But, the kids will have water, thank you.

New Special:

What are the waits like, especially on the weekend? Can I show up around 6:30 and expect to be seated by 7:00?

Ciro's is the Centreville location. According to their web site, they also have a place in Stone Ridge (new community out 50, just past South Riding). I'm not familiar with the Manassas one. For some reason, my wife likes Ciro's over Tony's, but they're the exact same place as far as I can tell. I prefer Tony's just because I was going to them for years before I found Ciro's. I live right in the middle of both of them, so they each get our business. The other place I like for pizza is Havabite in Old Town Fairfax.

I think there's a Dulles Greenway exit before the RT 28 exit. If not, you can exit onto 28N then onto the Greenway. But, that would have you cutting across three lanes of traffic in about 1/4 mile to the exit on the left. Map: That little road running N/S just west of 28 and between those parking lots is probably what you'd use.

Yeah, I think we'll try AF next. We're in western Fairfax, so it's closer. I picked Amy's for Sunday lunch because I really wanted some donuts. They look really good on the web page. I've heard AF is really family friendly. Well, I thought the staff at Amy's did a great job of making a family with three young children comfortable. They moved some tables around us to give a little extra space and gladly cleaned up the water I spilled trying to keep my acrobatic daughter from falling out her chair. My kids usually behave fairly well in restaurants, but I'm usually a little nervous going into a crowed urban restaurant because I assume they'd rather not have young kids there. I feel like my kids need to be near perfect. Well, they didn't make me feel that way at all.

Went here for the first time yesterday. We probably had about a 15 minute wait. Not too bad, but not too good either considering we did this with three young kids and they were hungry after the 45 minute drive from NOVA. Anyways, I had the Norcia. Good stuff. Wife was all ready for a pizza until she saw the soft shell crab panini on the specials. It was good, too. Although, I wouldn't really call it a panini. It was barely grilled. My master plan was to get some donuts to go at the end of lunch, but they had run out by then. Next time (and there will be a next time), I'll have to get them first. I'm new to this site (but have lived in NOVA my whole life) and I'm learning a lot.

Paris I've been to the Ashby Inn in Paris, VA (about 20 minutes east of Winchester at 50 and 17). It was a while ago, so I don't even remember what I ordered, but I do remember liking it. thread Also, when I'm out that way (Linden, VA - exit 13 on 66), I'll hit The Apple House for apple cinnamon donuts.

My Williamsburg rotation Cheese Shop: For the sammies. I usually get the VA Ham and turkey combo with cheddar and the house dressing. Pierce's Pit BBQ Green Leaf Cafe Blue Talon Bistro: Went there for the first time my last time down there. It will be part of our rotation. Whaling Company: Nothing great, but I haven't found any great seafood places. Casa Maya: Again, nothing great, but I get in the mood for Mexican every once in a while. Aromas: I've had some decent fondues there and it's one of the few places open on a Sunday night. Those are my usuals. Haven't been to Captain George's or Trellis in a while. I'd love to try Fat Canary, but I keep forgetting to call far enough in advance to get a reservation.

This week from Great Country Farms in Bluemont, VA: 1/2 pint cherry tomatoes 4 "regular" tomatoes (not sure what they're called) 4 ears of corn 1 squash 2 green peppers 10 smallish peaches 3 beets 1 chive plant to add to our herb garden That's half a share. We share a full share with some friends. Not sure how other CSA farms work, but ours allows a certain amount of U-Pick to members each week. This week is a couple pints of blackberries, a few pounds of peaches, and some sunflowers. Also, what we love most since we have kids, the farm has animals, slides, swings, hay rides, and a big jumping pillow that we can use as part of our membership. It also has a Country Store for the wife. It's almost impossible for me to leave the Country Store without buying some kettle corn.

Wife and I tried Cee tonight. I'm not a huge Asian fan, but my wife raves about Thai so we gave it a try. First of all, we ordered Thai Iced Tea. That was possibly the worst thing I've ever tasted. Since I've never had it before, I can't tell you whether it's just that I don't like Thai Iced Tea or that they don't make it well at Cee. Either way, I don't think I can ever even try it again. I can still taste it. For an appetizer, we had the Jacketed Shrimp. We liked it and it was great to have something to start the all-important process of getting that tea out of my mouth. We ordered Pad Khing Sod with beef and Pad Thai Shrimp. The Pad Khing Sod was really good. The shrimp were overcooked in the Pad Thai Shrimp. We arrived at 5 and were the only people there. One other couple arrived around 5:15. We left around 6 and still nobody else had arrived. The place was absolutely dead. I know it was early, but I would expect a few more people.