Free Range Chicken Cost

[B.A.R.]

So I am at the Farmer's Market on Saturday with my two girls, and there is a larger than normal crowd around the egg man. We went over to get our eggs, and one of the gentlemen was hawking the "fresh chickens". There were so many people jockeying for position, that my daughter thought they were giving away LIVE chickens.

I grabbed my dozen eggs in one hand, and grabbed a 5.5# bird in the other. I was a bit distracted when it came time to pay, as the girls were attempting to turn the strawberry table into a mini-buffet. So I could have sworn I heard incorrectly when the man told me my purchase total was $39.82.

"I'm sorry, what did you say?"

"$39.82"

My $20.00 bill sat on the table - exposed. I was shocked and somewhat embarassed; I honestly would have felt more at ease if my privates were hanging out of my pants.

As the girls began shoving stawberries into their mouths, I hurriedly retrieved my worthless $20 and meekly handed the man my credit card. I've paid between $3 and $4 for chickens before, but $5.95 just seems absurd.

So two questions: What are the accepted price ranges of free range chickens at market? If $5.95 per pound is the reasonable price structure, how can we honestly expect most of the populace to be able to afford to eat organic and local?

[Waitman]

Which market? Which vendor?

I think that even Eco-Friendly, hardly the low-cost option -- generally comes in under $20 for a bird.

[mdt]

Which market? Which vendor?

I think that even Eco-Friendly, hardly the low-cost option -- generally comes in under $20 for a bird.

That said, Eco-Friendly birds are rarely every 5.5#.

As an aside, I have to wonder how they got the bird so large so early in the season. Certainly not raised out on a pasture.

[B.A.R.]

I only visit the Farmers Market near my home, so I can't compare pricing at other markets. This price was truly outrageous, and counterproductive when attempting to get more people to look at the Farmers Market as a need, not a luxury. I just wondered how much chickens cost at other markets. The offender is:

Burke Farmers Market.

The egg and chicken man right next to the bread guy. The man behind me bought two!!

[deangold]

[stepping up on his well worn soapbox]

When I was at Whole Foods, we used to have a debate titled "Whole Foods vs. Holier Than Thou Foods". Is purism to an extreme better than feeding the masses a much better product than the current standards of conventional?

I would say that $5 a pound for a chicken that is not some rare, hard to grow heritage breed is way high and serves no purpose in the mission to get people to eat consciously. And, they reinforce the idea that farmers markets are elitist institutions. But when making conscious decisions about food, do we restrict our chickens to pasture grown? Then chicken is a short season or frozen product {and freezing chicken uses energy and then there are food safety issues associated with freezing, thawing etc}.

I mean, take local grass fed beef. What are them cows eating when there is no grass? They are heating hay and other dried foods. This is not the same grass fed as an animal raised somewhere where grass is available year round. And there are ways of using grain in the cow’s life cycle where the cow has access to both grains and grasses. Programs like these produce cows with none of the issues of CAFO beef and yet cost less and meet the needs of consumers who don't like the flavor of 100% grass fed or grass and hay fed cows. I mean it’s all a trade off.

I think there is just not enough emphasis on what I call conscious large scale agriculture. Taking the industrial model that has produced our super cheap super crappy food supply that is sapping our ability to have effective antibiotics, creating a diabetes/obesity epidemic etc. and making it much more wholesome while remaining pretty darn price competitive. Kreider Farms is a perfect example of this model {although I stopped using them in favor of eggs from paddock grown in the right season, barn raised in the cold and Trickling Springs Creamery}. But if all eggs were produced using the Kreider model {recycling, on-site energy generation from waste product, growing their own feed locally using composted manures, no rBGH or routine non therapeutic or governmentally required antibiotics}, then we would have a much better farm model than if everyone who can afford the higher costs {both in time and money} of the Farmer's Market model. I mean if you are poor and live east of the river, it is hard enough to keep real food in the house much less making it to the Farmer's Market and buying from a local farmer.

Buying Earthboud Farms Organic or Horizon Organic Milk, to me, is no better than buying consciously grown conventional or even just plain old. Michael Pollin argues that Earthbound Farms, whicle chemical free, is harder on the environment than a convention bagged salad grower and I aruge that their product is just not as good as someone conscious like Underwood Farms {note, I hope Underwood is still using the same methods they did the last time I saw them, if not, then I take back this statement.}. I have to buy mesclun every once isn a while and the stuff from Underwood, organic or not is way better than Earthbound…. You get more salads per pound, the stuff tastes better and lasts longer, organic or not. I’d take Kreider conventional milk any day over Horizon despite the happy cow pictures on the label.

I love farmer's markets. I am buying my food more and more directly from the producer and if from a distributor, from a selected system of what I believe to be responsible farms, not a "branded entity" from far away. But I realize that it is a luxury, a choice. But I don't think that what I do is a sustainable model for everyone. And I think that there is a sustainable model for the masses that Joel Salatin and Bev Eggleston would still view as "corporate" and possibly even "not natural" but would reduce farming’s massive impact on our environment and health.

By the way, all of you who are going to farmer's markets and buying natural foods, please make sure you are not fertilizing and pesticiding your lawns. Farm waste is tied with lawn runoff as the two major sources of pollution and damage to the Chesapeake. Even natural pesticides like pyrethins are harmful accumulated in the bay as they disrupt the natural balance of insect life that leads to a healthy bay ecosystem. And natural fertilizers will disrupt the oxygen cycle as much as Giant Big Box’s Lawn Liquid God Crapola in a Bag.

[/stepping up on his well worn soapbox]

[xdcx]

I only visit the Farmers Market near my home, so I can't compare pricing at other markets. This price was truly outrageous, and counterproductive when attempting to get more people to look at the Farmers Market as a need, not a luxury. I just wondered how much chickens cost at other markets. The offender is:

Burke Farmers Market.

The egg and chicken man right next to the bread guy. The man behind me bought two!!

it was smith family farm. I overheard the guy saying that they were so freshly processed they hadn't frozen them yet. I'm now glad I didn't stop over there to see about getting one.

[Mrs. B]

There were so many people jockeying for position, that my daughter thought they were giving away LIVE chickens.

I was pretty surprised to see a shop in Philly on 9th Street last Saturday which was selling LIVE poultry and bunnies.

[marketfan]

A USDA plant can charge 6 dollars per bird just for slaughtering. That adds 1.50 a pound for a four pound bird.

We need a lot more small, community based USDA plants so that small chicken farmers can slaughter at reasonable prices.

[DonRocks]

A friend who is now interning on a farm in PA was shocked when they took 60 of their chickens to a local USDA plant and were charged 6 dollars per chicken by the plant. If you have a 4 pound chicken, it adds a 1.50 per pound just for the slaughtering cost. Plus more if they were to be split into parts. Outrageous price for the farmer and he or she has to pass that on to the consumer. There are very few USDA chicken plants and most are very expensive. The big industrial farmers who process hundreds of thousands of chickens get a different rate, of course. Local, free range chickens live weeks longer before slaughter and cost more to raise per bird than the industrial ones that are pumped up from birth to slaughter in 4/5 weeks. I spoke with another poultry farmer who takes her chickens hundreds a mile away to find a cheaper USDA plant. But that costs money in gas and time away from the farm, too

I always tell customers to talk to the farmer, ask questions. They will tell you.

Production economics aside, I'm choking at the thought of a $35 chicken (unless Bernard Loiseau was to rise from the grave and cook it with truffled rice).

[marketfan]

Production economics aside, I'm choking at the thought of a $35 chicken (unless Bernard Loiseau was to rise from the grave and cook it with truffled rice).

I know. Julie from Groff Content caps her prices at 20 dollars a bird for that reason.

[Choirgirl21]

A USDA plant can charge 6 dollars per bird just for slaughtering. That adds 1.50 a pound for a four pound bird.

We need a lot more small, community based USDA plants so that small chicken farmers can slaughter at reasonable prices.

So true. Not to mention that farmers cannot sell their chicken off of the farm unless they use these processing plants, which often means a really long drive for the farmer so add mileage/time costs (at least in MD).

I also believe we have a convoluted idea of how much meat should cost due to commercial farming and that it would benefit us in many ways to have higher prices for non-commercially raised meats that we would then simply eat less of. I feel the same way about higher gas prices as a way to encourage the purchase of more fuel efficient vehicles so take my dirty hippie opinions or leave 'em as you see fit.

Having said all of that, I've not encountered free range chicken at that high of a price. I would say the range I have seen is $3.75-4.25/lb. The new vendor at our market is charging $4/lb and she uses Joel Salatin's method of movable coops. This is of course for a whole bird, not certain cuts.

[warrenova]

That is the current dilemma...That is; the price on organic and sustainably farmed food. Right now, the market share on organic meat/poultry is around 1%! Short supply and a high demand results in your $30+ dollar chicken. Yes, I am sure it was a shock to you. I am also sure that you did the right thing by continuing with the purchase. For those that have children especially; we have to be great role models on the nutritional front! The way most of us think about our food sourcing in America is laughable. Especially to most people who live outside of the U.S.! The joke is truly on us and it hurts the credibility of America! I have travelled around the world and I am the guy fielding the questions about obesity in this country. We have been a "super power" in the world for about one hundred years...We are, relatively speaking, still the "new kid on the block"! How can we move forward as a world power without having a clue as to how to properly nourish ourselves? Enough with my rant...The best thing that you can do is to make the most out of your chicken purchase. You have a 5-1/2lb chicken...Depending on your family size, that can be 2-3-4 meals! This would be your protein base, obviously. Think stir fry, casserole, schnitzels...all of which don't require tons of protein when you're putting it together with organic;rice, pasta and veggies. The remaining chicen bones and carcass will become a tasty soup. You may ask "Who has time to do all that?" Everyone does! Because if your smart you realize that each bite of organic goodness that you prepare is an investment in your familiys' health! It is wise to pay the premium now, otherwise you will end up paying that premium to the medical/pharmaceutical establishment! Think carefully about my last statement-TRUTH... Getting back to a practical approach to an organic diet...Depending on your financial reality; make 25-50-75% your goal on organic/sustainably farmed food sourcing. I tell everyone on my"campsite" to do the same. With a dismal economy...very few can afford to go "all in" on organics! Good Luck-Curt(curtsculinarycamp)

[B.A.R.]

My family ate the chicken last night, it was very good. Just not $34 dollars good.

Rest assured I'll use the whole bird, make stock, etc. The point is, if a chicken at the farmers market costs 5x the amount of a chicken in the grocery store, that's a barrier to purchase that most would not pass. At that cost differential, eating local and organic is just not feasible for most people.

[TedE]

My family ate the chicken last night, it was very good. Just not $34 dollars good.

Rest assured I'll use the whole bird, make stock, etc. The point is, if a chicken at the farmers market costs 5x the amount of a chicken in the grocery store, that's a barrier to purchase that most would not pass. At that cost differential, eating local and organic is just not feasible for most people.

And it's not just 5x the cost of bottom of the heap agri-industrial chicken-base food product. It's 3-4x the cost of other organic options at WF and the like. I know that the definition of "organic" is up for lengthy debate with respect to any grocery poultry, but when you are 97% of the way there the massive step up in cost is impossible to ignore if you have any sort of food budget. Or I can just eat more organic vegetables from the market.

[B.A.R.]

Can other Rockweiller's post their per pound whole chicken cost at their local market here?

I have a garden, eat healthy, support local agriculture whenever I can. Statistically speaking, my family ranks in the upper 5% of gross income, nationwide, but probably the lower 5% of my neighborhood - and I cannot afford to buy a chicken.

[Mrs. B]

I bought a 4.5 lb Eberley chicken ate Eastern Market for $16 2 weeks ago if my memory serves. Sounds like a bargin now.

[ScotteeM]

I pay $3.39/lb directly to a sustainable farmer, delivery included.

[ol_ironstomach]

I pay $3.79/lb at the farm for Jehovah-Jireh's chickens. On a directly related note, the Maryland Department of Agriculture has just initiated certification workshops for small farmers (operating under the Federal inspection exemption) who wish to sell part and whole carcasses off-farm within the state.

[marketfan]

I pay $3.79/lb at the farm for Jehovah-Jireh's chickens. On a directly related note, the Maryland Department of Agriculture has just initiated certification workshops for small farmers (operating under the Federal inspection exemption) who wish to sell part and whole carcasses off-farm within the state.

That is a good price and this new certificate program for on farm slaughter should keep prices reasonable

[Barbara]

There is an Amish farm, Garden Path Farm, that is at the White House farmers' market on Thursdays. They have fresh, not frozen, young chickens at $3.75/lb. They also have chicken parts to sell and their beef and lamb prices are significantly less than those of Groff's Content Farm. Their animals are all raised to be very happy--right up until the end. Now I just need to figure out who is worthy of that chicken, besides Dame Edna that is.

[Anna Blume]

There is an Amish farm, Garden Path Farm, that is at the White House farmers' market on Thursdays. They have fresh, not frozen, young chickens at $3.75/lb. They also have chicken parts to sell and their beef and lamb prices are significantly less than those of Groff's Content Farm. Their animals are all raised to be very happy--right up until the end. Now I just need to figure out who is worthy of that chicken, besides Dame Edna that is.

I seem to recall that Haskin's (Hasken's?) at the Foggy Bottom Market on Wednesdays (3-7) has really good prices for chicken and chicken parts.

(I admit that I still depend on sales at WFM for the birds I roast.)

[jigones]

We try to stick with free range chicken and try to support local farmers. However, some places are charging absurd prices for their free range chickens. Even for frozen chickens. It really has become a huge hassle to shop for free range chicken at a reasonable cost. It usually requires a 45 minute drive from Rockville.

There has to be a fine balance between economics and support of a higher cause. The whole local movement should be working together. I am willing to pay a little more, but it seems like the consumer is getting ripped off/being taken advantage of by certain farms who see this as a way to increase profits (to a certain extent their behavior is no different then the greedy corporate behavior we see everyday.) Certain local farms seem to use the whole I am doing this for the environment attitude to make more money. I just do not see how their cost are remotely close to what they charge, especially when you are buying directly from the source (there is just no way to justify such prices based on their costs.) If you do not believe me, take a look at the Form 10-K's (has financial statements and a discussion by management) filed by the major players. Even with economies of scale, they have massive costs associated with their operations, that certain local farmers do not have when consumers are coming to them. To me, the whole movement should be about improving the eating habits and health while supporting each other, not maximizing profits (of course they need to make money, but how much money is too much?) Should we hold them to different standards?

On that note, I am going start gathering prices of local farms for free range chicken and beef to see the disparities along with why such disparities exist. While not all chickens are equal, those farmers that charge significantly more then the rest should be held accountable and support their price structure. Even organic/local/green farms should be held to certain standards for pricing. You can't profit of the local movement without also helping the locals by trying to keep cost low. Some people get a free ride because of their farming practices, but it should not be that way. At least, we can have full disclosure and people can know who might be taking advantage of them. Anyone willing to help?

[ktmightve]

It's nice to see some lower cost options--thanks for the posts! I've stopped buying chicken altogether lately.

[legant]

On that note, I am going start gathering prices of local farms for free range chicken and beef to see the disparities along with why such disparities exist.

-- snip --

Anyone willing to help?

I'll be willing to survey several DC farmers markets for pork/chicken/beef prices. Keep me in the loop.

~ louise

[lion]

When I was out in Loudon County, Chicama Run Farm was recommended for fresh chickens. Haven't tried it yet, but website looks good and prices are more reasonable.

[Anna Blume]

I am willing to pay a little more, but it seems like the consumer is getting ripped off/being taken advantage of by certain farms who see this as a way to increase profits (to a certain extent their behavior is no different then the greedy corporate behavior we see everyday.) Certain local farms seem to use the whole I am doing this for the environment attitude to make more money. I just do not see how their cost are remotely close to what they charge, especially when you are buying directly from the source (there is just no way to justify such prices based on their costs.)...To me, the whole movement should be about improving the eating habits and health while supporting each other, not maximizing profits (of course they need to make money, but how much money is too much?)

Some people get a free ride because of their farming practices, but it should not be that way.

A farmer who reads this board brought this post to my attention. I wish I had enough time for a thoughtful, comprehensive response and perhaps I will be able to add tempered, informative and informed rhetoric at a later date.

In meantime, let me say how utterly offensive I find comparative terms in this post. Since I am so far removed from both the corporate world and means to avail myself all that often of the things it contributes to our culture, I lack everyday exposure to its greed. Even so, I am willing to hazard a guess that all farmers are not noble souls and that all members of the corporate world are not greedy.

Since jgones expresses frustration in the forum devoted to Farms and Farmers' Markets, I hope it's safe to assume the point of reference is to poultry sold at local farmers' markets. Whether or not these free-range, or "happy chickens" are sold by those who grew them depends on whether or not the sale takes place at a producer-only market, and even then, you might encounter something of a middle-man, since I know of at least one small, local operation that processes birds from other smaller, nearby farms along with its own animals. In any case, we're still talking locally raised birds from small farms, correct? Birds sold at farmers markets vs. Whole Foods Market, specialty butchers or others located in architectural structures (vs. tents) to sell their wares?

As romantic as small-scale farming has become these days, any farmer who isn't motivated by profit is in danger. Many of us who shop at local markets are acquainted with farmers who really wanted to make a living at their work and couldn't and their farms went under. In turn, I have to imagine most of the small farms in this area were started long before you and I began reading about either the environmental or health benefits of eating local. Your reason for shopping for free-range birds need not be the reason someone is selling them, though there is nothing wrong with benefitting from the desire of you, the consumer.

I need to log off in a couple of minutes, but let me add how entitled a community we seem when we don't want farmers to have the things we have. If farmers were greedy about anything, I bet it would be leisure time and mobility that many of us take for granted. As for free rides, I'd like to know who around here gets one.

[jigones]

I need to log off in a couple of minutes, but let me add how entitled a community we seem when we don't want farmers to have the things we have. If farmers were greedy about anything, I bet it would be leisure time and mobility that many of us take for granted. As for free rides, I'd like to know who around here gets one.

It deals with both farmers at local farmers markets and those who do not attend local farmers markets. In other words, the cost of true free range chicken and grass fed beef in general. It has nothing with them having less or more then me (I certainly do not feel entitled as try to do my part by strictly shopping locally and at farmers markets.) What they do it a very difficult job, but a lot of us work really hard (some more then others.) However, when they are making money off a movement that is also supposed to making the world a better place and trying to advertise it as such, how much is too much? Are they barely making ends meat selling free range chickens that range between $3.75 and $4.50 a pound for whole chickens, or are they making a profits of over $150,000 after costs? Either way, it would be a problem for me (others could be ok with it.) It is a matter of understanding and learning about it (maybe I would pay more if I knew they were making ends meat.) Right now, I am not the only one that has sticker shock over the increase in the price of chickens in this particular geographical area, which is why it was brought up. As you see, the original poster paid over $35 dollars for a chicken? Is that reasonable? Not to me. There are people which appear to be taking advantage of the organic movement, and it would be wise for those who are not to call them out on it or there will be huge backlash, eventually. I have friends who also think they are charging too much and have decided to not shop at their local farmers markets. Quite sad honestly.

If I drive to a farm to pick up produce or meats, why am I paying up more then I do at supermarket when that farmer has zero distributions costs. Shouldn't I at least pay less then what I do at a farmers market? I am sorry, but as a consumer, I think I have the right to ask. I might be satisfied with the answer, but then I might not. Due to the price differential, the lack of information regarding pricing is not an acceptable, for me. I started compiling a list of chicken, lamb, and meat prices. What I do not understand is why the farms that I have researched charge the same price or are within 5-10% of each other? Some might be making nothing, while others are making lots of money (it all depends on their cost structure.) Also, would it not be helpful for consumers to know who is at the $3.75 end of the range vs. those who are at the $4.50 end of the range?

Hopefully the mobile slaughterhouses will help reign in costs. The question is whether those savings be passed on to the consumer or added to the bottom line. If anyone finds this line of questioning offensive (it is asked of most business these days), then let me know so I do not shop there anymore. There is nothing wrong with making profits, I just do not expect my local farmer to act like large corporation who's first and only priority is profit.

[jigones]

As an FYI, I shop and support my local farmer markets. I drive to local farms to shop and try to stay away from wholefoods (if I can not find it anywhere else, I go there.) I can't wait to check out the Westover butcher shop. BTW, a lot of the farms at the Silver Spring farmers markets are great (the group that mainly sell tomato/pepper and other plants is fantastic). It is also a great place to take kids. I often take family and friend while trying to teach them about the benefits of shopping local or at least only using grass fed beef or real free range chickens. However, a lot of them can not get over the price shock, some just can not afford it. So I am asking the offensive question of why does it cost so much? Because it is better for you is not a good enough answer for me, for others, it may be. Like I said, it will be a learning experience and hopefully, I can do my part while offending as little as possible (probably not likely.) Maybe one day in the far off future, I can find someway to help one local farmer lower costs for consumers while making more money......who knows. Compiling a list to properly analyze quality/price ratio is proving tough enough. If anything, my goal is to compile and update a comprehensive list of prices for people to be able to decide where they want to shop (for free of course). Hopefully, our local farms will be more transparent then the large corporations we scorn for lack of it.

[jigones]

Your reason for shopping for free-range birds need not be the reason someone is selling them, though there is nothing wrong with benefitting from the desire of you, the consumer.

My personal opinion is that such a line of thinking, which I frankly find to be inconsiderate of your customers, will ultimately lead to failure (short term outlook). Look at Blockbuster. Different business but had a product that everyone demanded. They benefited from my desires and maximized profits. When alternatives popped up, people jumped at them to spite Blockbuster. I will tell you this, if one of the big boys starts selling real free range chicken at cheaper prices, and they will once they feel there profit there..... local farmers will be in big trouble unless they build a brand. In this case, I feel that such a brand would be working together to make our local area a better place. Still most big box stores smash small business when they more in, unless like I said, the small local store builds a loyal customer base that wants to support that local business.

From my personal experience it is also that line of thinking that starts you down a very slippery slope. Benefiting at what cost.....

[DonRocks]

[This is a great and thoughtful conversation. By all means, carry on.]

[jigones]

When I was out in Loudon County, Chicama Run Farm was recommended for fresh chickens. Haven't tried it yet, but website looks good and prices are more reasonable.

From their website, it appears that their whole chickens sell for $4.99/pound. So far, in my premature research, it appears that if one of the posters above recollection is correct, Eberly has the best price at $3.56 a pound followed by Garden Path at $3.75 and then Jehovah-Jireh at $3.79. Hope that helps for now. I will be gathering and much larger list with more details in the future.

[B.A.R.]

Since I started this topic, I'll join in the fray.

A $40 chicken is economically unfeasable for most of the population. I had never paid $40 for a chicken before, and I won't again. I am willing to pay more, often a lot more, for locally produced food, be it beets or beef. But don't kill the proverbial golden organic goose with obscene mark-ups.

And if it does actually cost $4-6 a pound to get a free range, local, organic whole chicken to the market? It's game over, man.

[mdt]

My personal opinion is that such a line of thinking, which I frankly find to be inconsiderate of your customers, will ultimately lead to failure (short term outlook). Look at Blockbuster. Different business but had a product that everyone demanded. They benefited from my desires and maximized profits. When alternatives popped up, people jumped at them to spite Blockbuster. I will tell you this, if one of the big boys starts selling real free range chicken at cheaper prices, and they will once they feel there profit there..... local farmers will be in big trouble unless they build a brand. In this case, I feel that such a brand would be working together to make our local area a better place. Still most big box stores smash small business when they more in, unless like I said, the small local store builds a loyal customer base that wants to support that local business.

And will those same loyal customers pay the extra dollars for the same items long term? I think, minus a few exceptions, we know the answer to that. Lower prices are the result of volume buying and selling that the big boys can do.

[B.A.R.]

My personal opinion is that such a line of thinking, which I frankly find to be inconsiderate of your customers, will ultimately lead to failure (short term outlook). Look at Blockbuster. Different business but had a product that everyone demanded. They benefited from my desires and maximized profits. When alternatives popped up, people jumped at them to spite Blockbuster. I will tell you this, if one of the big boys starts selling real free range chicken at cheaper prices, and they will once they feel there profit there..... local farmers will be in big trouble unless they build a brand. In this case, I feel that such a brand would be working together to make our local area a better place. Still most big box stores smash small business when they more in, unless like I said, the small local store builds a loyal customer base that wants to support that local business.

From my personal experience it is also that line of thinking that starts you down a very slippery slope. Benefiting at what cost.....

I don't think the big boys will ever be able to mass produce free range organic chickens. It's the perfect niche for the small and mid-size farmer, provided there is no price goughing.

Above $3.75 per pound is probably too great a barrier of entry for the average consumer. A whole, factory farmed chicken in the Wegman's near my house costs about $1.79#. On a busy Saturday, they'll have about a dozen of the birds out there. If $1.79 per pound is enough enticement to get the average consumer to skip the frozen tenders, chicken wings, and other chicken products 4x the cost, I don't know how you can get them to pay even more.

But then again, I still can't believe people pay $4 for a cup of steamed milk with some shitty coffee at Starbucks. So maybe there is hope.

[Mark Slater]

Since I started this topic, I'll join in the fray.

A $40 chicken is economically unfeasable for most of the population. I had never paid $40 for a chicken before, and I won't again. I am willing to pay more, often a lot more, for locally produced food, be it beets or beef. But don't kill the proverbial golden organic goose with obscene mark-ups.

And if it does actually cost $4-6 a pound to get a free range, local, organic whole chicken to the market? It's game over, man.

My last meal in Paris two years ago at Le Bristol, we ordered the Poulet de Bresse Roti for two, which was 210€ ($300 at the time). All things are relative.

[B.A.R.]

My last meal in Paris two years ago at Le Bristol, we ordered the Poulet de Bresse Roti for two, which was 210€ ($300 at the time). All things are relative.

But did it come with fries, a 20oz medium drink, and a plastic action figure?

[Mark Slater]

But did it come with fries, a 20oz medium drink, and a plastic action figure?

No, but it did come with perfect service, soothing ambiance and a certain je ne sais quoi .

[Toogs]

If I drive to a farm to pick up produce or meats, why am I paying up more then I do at supermarket when that farmer has zero distributions costs. Shouldn't I at least pay less then what I do at a farmers market?

You should certainly pay less if you buy at the farm. What farmer isn't doing this?

[goldenticket]

To rephrase what mdt posted above, why is the other stuff so cheap? Processing costs also have to be considered. If you're buying a chicken directly from the farmer - at a farm - does it have to be slaughtered in a USDA-certified processing facility? (I don't know.) Maybe you're paying more because the guy is in debt or his farming methods cost more or he doesn't benefit from economies of scale (much like most Virginia wines are probably more expensive than people think they should be). There are a lot of products with artificially low prices, especially when compared to other parts of the world - gas, milk, meat all come to mind. The whole corn-driven side of big agriculture also needs to be considered - "The Omnivore's Dilemma" does a much better job addressing that topic than I ever could.

Personally, it's been useful to reconsider what part meat plays in my meals - and it definitely plays a part. It may just not play as big a role as it used to; maybe more of a cameo than that of the starring role. Dried beans and grains can go a long way on a little money (especially with my pressure cooker ) and can be supplemented with a small bit of meat -a sausage or two, or some leftovers from a whole chicken, etc. or just enjoyed meat-free.

This is a tough topic - money and food are both very emotional issues. I don't judge anyone for the choices they make because everyone has different circumstances, needs, resources. I also wouldn't judge a local farmer who has found a way to be successful and live a middle-class lifestyle (or better, but I'd imagine they're few and far between).

I'll be interested to see what your price list shows - and maybe you can include some additional information about their farming and slaughter methods, too.

[johnb]

You should certainly pay less if you buy at the farm.

Maybe. Maybe not.

If a farmer goes to market on one particular day, (1) he takes a quantity of stuff with him and (2) that is his market day so he can plan his weekly activity around that day. OTOH, to sell at the farm may involve taking time out from other things he needs to do, just about any time, in order to make a comparatively small sale. It may just not be worth the hassle and disruption. So the true cost to him of serving clients at the farm may be higher than the costs of selling at the market.

[Toogs]

I assume we are talking about farmers who do both. Those that I know that do, change their pricing because they don't add the cost of the market fee into the product. I'd be pissed if I drove to their farm and they charged me the same price as they do at the market. I have a limited sample size, but I would be shocked to discover that most (or any really) do this. If the "true costs of selling at the farm" are higher, then they shouldn't sell at the farm. And I imagine lots of farmers don't. But I don't think those farmers are germane to my statement.

[deangold]

I assume we are talking about farmers who do both. Those that I know that do, change their pricing because they don't add the cost of the market fee into the product. I'd be pissed if I drove to their farm and they charged me the same price as they do at the market. I have a limited sample size, but I would be shocked to discover that most (or any really) do this. If the "true costs of selling at the farm" are higher, then they shouldn't sell at the farm. And I imagine lots of farmers don't. But I don't think those farmers are germane to my statement.

What a farmer "should" charge for his product is the price that clears his market and is reflective of his marginal cost and marginal revenue. At his own farm, if the farm stand is low volume compared to what he sells at a farmers' market it might very well be that the cost of keeping the stand staffed is greater than the cost of loading up a box van and taking hundreds of cases to Dupont Circle, say, and setting up a stand for one day and having hundreds of customers taken care of by a few employees, some of whom are partially paid in free produce. There is no hard and afst "should" that an outsider with no knowledge of the costs and demand faced by each farmer can make a blanket statement about. For some farms, the cost of farm sales are high and for some, low. You can buy a bowl of mussels for a low price at some restaurants and a high one at others. Same with farmer sold chickens.

So it may very well be that the farmer faces lower cost at the market and higher costs at the farm. So should the farmer only sell at their low cost outlet {the market}? Of course not! If the sales at the farm are enough to offset the cost of selling there, then they add marginal net revenue and the farmer should carry on. If the price at the farm is higher then you value the convenience or inconvenience of buying there {ie you don't have to live in Dupont or find a parking place in Dupont if you don't live there} and maybe you live by the farm, then buy at the farm.

It may be that for some farmers, their products are sufficiently differentiated, weather by some intrinsic quality aspect or by the "Veblen"ian aspects of conspicuous consumption that people are willing to pay a premium for the product. Should then the farmer not charge the price that the market will bear?

I have long railed against corporate farming because their prices are not reflective of the true cost of their product. When corn is subsidized, when waste management is not priced by the market, when safety regulations are designed by oil industry lobbyists and not scientifically backed research and apply far more cost on a small producer than on a large scale one, we get today's current food model. Food where the consumer is paying the real cost of production is a luxury item. If we didn't allow chicken farms to pile their waste in huge piled to be flooded to the Chesapeake on predictable, regular storms but made sure that the waste was handled in a way that did not impose costs on other down stream users of the water, then maybe those dollar meals at Micky Ds would cost more. If we did not allow the stupid use of antibiotics in poultry to add fat, and apparently, to alter the omega 3 vs omega 6 fat balance to make chicken into a heart disease causing product rather than a decently healthy food}, than the supermarket chicken's cost would go up.

Personally, I would rather see a model of chicken production that allows for responsible farming with minimal environmental impact and is priced competitively and is available at many outlets at prices that mass market can afford. The prices charged at most farmer's markets for the meats and poultry simply ghettoize responsible meats to the few. Bell and Evens Chicken is more responsibly farmed than, say, Tyson's but still expensive. And, to me, they don't taste good. But there are a large number of smaller farms and processors who don't have the brand pressures {ie supplying Whole Foods and many others} that can make a bird that is tasty and well priced.

[Toogs]

That's all true and I agree with your philosophy. I'd still like someone to give me an example of a farmer who charges more, or even the same, at the farm as at a market.

And in MD at least, they can slaughter for farm sale on their own, while market sales must be USDA slaughtered--a huge cost difference. So the set of circumstances involving cashier labor at the farm (which is usually the farmer or family stopping whatever they are doing for 5 minutes to transact) would have to be odd for that to matter...much They also do designated pickup days to minimize this impact.

If the farmer wants to charge 8 bucks a pound for the inconvenience of someone dropping by the farm for one chicken, interrupting their day for such a small sale, and some yokel will pay it, then more power to them.

[lion]

From their website, it appears that their whole chickens sell for $4.99/pound. So far, in my premature research, it appears that if one of the posters above recollection is correct, Eberly has the best price at $3.56 a pound followed by Garden Path at $3.75 and then Jehovah-Jireh at $3.79. Hope that helps for now. I will be gathering and much larger list with more details in the future.

My bad. I think I confused the egg or chicken liver price for the whole chicken per pound price.

This is an interesting change in the local farming market.

Last time, I bought chickens in that amount was for Christmas family&friends dinner. Got it from the Lancaster Dutch Market in Germantown, MD. Can't remember the cost per pound, but remember it being pretty fresh and not as expensive as anticipated.

[Choirgirl21]

Last time, I bought chickens in that amount was for Christmas family&friends dinner. Got it from the Lancaster Dutch Market in Germantown, MD. Can't remember the cost per pound, but remember it being pretty fresh and not as expensive as anticipated.

I would not lump meat purchased at a Dutch market into locally raised meat unless you are certain of its origin and farming methods. Your market looks very similar to the Dutch market in Burtonsville, where the beef is actually brought in from Missouri. I haven't been able to find out where the Yoder's poultry come from yet as there are too many Yoder's out there farming to tell on the internet and I haven't been recently to ask myself.

[marketfan]

Here is a very good price on excellent chickens Saturday at 14&U FM.

Sale on large, pastured, Italian breed of chickens (smaller breasts, long legs) at Pecan Meadow Saturday at 14&U FM.

6 pounds or larger, $3.00 per pound. (The regular price is $3.75 per pound)

Reserve by emailing Lois Shirk at bluemountainbeef@juno.com

I roast these chickens every week and they have real chicken flavor -- Robin