30% Tip? Bullshit.

[DonRocks]

So I'm hearing re-murmerings of servers in New York trying to make 30% the new norm.

Wrong.

My guess is that "they're asking for 30%, hoping for 25%," and even that is pure, unbridled greed. Even 20% (which is up from the 15% norm of a few years ago) is too much for what most servers provide, relative to other restaurant employees.

Is 25% The New Standard When It Comes To Tipping?

No, it's not.

Are You Tipping Enough?

Not only am I tipping enough, I'm tipping too much.

Are Tipping Percentages Going Up?

Not from me they aren't.

I will never, ever leave a 30% tip, or even 25%, unless something extraordinary happens. And if that percentage becomes the norm in the industry, then I'm opting out. And I mean I'm done dining out, and will devote my energies fighting for, well, read on ...

When dishwashers, line cooks, runners, bussers, and AGMs are making what they're making per hour (we're talking $10-$15), servers asking for 30% is immoral.

Read that last sentence ten times. Dishwashers, line cooks, runners, bussers, and AGMs deserve to make every bit as much per hour as servers.

Tipping The Scales?

No. Instead of giving servers more money, I want a way to tip the neglected, forgotten back of the house staff. And yes, also the AGMs - the most abused "professionals" in the restaurant industry - who toil 70 hours a week for a fixed salary often in the $40s, sometimes making half of what servers or bartenders make.

I've written rocunited.org and asked them to chime in. This conversation needs to happen, and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

I tip 20% (I used to do this on the post-tax amount, but have now adjusted it downward to the pre-tax amount), but I think that's too much. I think the industry tipping standard should revert to 15%. I won't be first in line, but I'll jump on that bandwagon very quickly.

Why should servers make any more, percentage-wise, than they made 10 years ago, especially considering the cost of dining out has increased?

Answer: They shouldn't.

The irony of this is that I'm pretty sure I have the reputation of a very fair, consistently good tipper; they've gone too far, and have asked for too much. This draws attention to the situation that they're already being overpaid, and that it's high time for the restaurant industry to get away from a tip-based system, and for people to take a little pride in their work, and to stop feeling so damned entitled when the rest of the world is suffering in this economy.

[jayandstacey]

Excellent points. Could you help me out though and add about 10% more to what you've already written?

[weezy]

Excellent points. Could you help me out though and add about 10% more to what you've already written?

Would that be 10% more to the linked parts as well, or only original writing?

[mtureck]

One thing that would be good to know when tipping is wether the tip is going directly to the server, or is being pooled to be distributed, and if it's the latter, who's in the pool?

[monavano]

Why should servers make any more, percentage-wise, than they made 10 years ago, especially considering the cost of dining out has increased?

*****

This part especially caught my eye. While checking out menus online, I see that the $30+ entree is far more prevalent than it was a few years ago. I booked a lovely restaurant in Old Town for this weekend for us and my in-laws. The menu's price points and offerings were just right. But, it's not easy to find.

We are good tippers but like Rocks, are probably going to make it our standard to tip 20% on the pre-tax amount vs. our traditional post-tax amount. Plus or minus a couple % given service, of course.

Bottom line is, restaurants are losing customers like me. Two people for dinner, little to no alcohol, $100+, with tip easily, not happening much.

[DonRocks]

One thing that would be good to know when tipping is wether the tip is going directly to the server, or is being pooled to be distributed, and if it's the latter, who's in the pool?

This is done on a restaurant-by-restaurant basis, so there's no single formula that can answer your question.

Why, oh why, can't restaurants just raise the price of the meal by 25% and pay their staff a living wage? Why can't *one* restaurant in the DC area do this? Actually, The Swiss Bakery does (and I love them for it), but it's not a restaurant.

And I am *sick* of seeing tip jars everywhere I go. As I type this, I realize that I've been "guilted" into throwing money into these jars left-and-right, and I need to stop because it's perpetuating a system I don't believe in. Same reason I don't give out money to panhandlers at stoplights.

[Eric Ziebold]

I too am old enough to remember when 15% was the norm. I never really understood and was somewhat mystified how 18% and then 20% became the norm. I sort of thought it was because the economy was booming, people were very freespending and it just sort of changed over time. That being said, with the exception being large parties that some restaurants require a contract and mandated "service charge" for, in it's current form isn't the % is left up to the guest?

Wont "social ettiquette" change only if society wants it to, but does that really mean you have to go along?

Europe used to be a non-tipping culture and they're moving towards additional gratuity. Isn't it just a matter of time before their 1-5% becomes 10-15%, and then 15-20%?

Does this mean you're in favor of more restaurants going to service included? Thus relieving you of any sort of social pressure and allowing you to more easily pick and chose your dining options?

*FWIW- redistributing tips to cooks, stewards, and management isn't legal, and would be something that is much harder to change than restaurants going to service charge.

[DonRocks]

Does this mean you're in favor of more restaurants going to service included? Thus relieving you of any sort of social pressure and allowing you to more easily pick and chose your dining options?

Yes! But I can't afford Per Se. I would actively support any restaurant that moves to an all-inclusive pricing structure.

I also desperately want "being a server" to become a respected profession like it is in Europe (which would include servers learning their trade and becoming more professional).

[dcandohio]

Why should servers make any more, percentage-wise, than they made 10 years ago, especially considering the cost of dining out has increased?

*****

Bottom line is, restaurants are losing customers like me. Two people for dinner, little to no alcohol, $100+, with tip easily, not happening much.

This. Yes. I know costs are going up, I know customers are demanding better ingredients, but once we realized we were routinely crossing over the $100 price point for dinner, we had to ask ourselves if we should reconsider how and when we dine out. We are not cheapskates, and we earn a decent living, but more and more we are approaching a threshold where we're going to say, "It's just not worth it." If tipping escalates, we'll get to that threshold that much faster.

And really? How often do you get service that makes you say, "what a fabulous experience!." Usually, we are grateful when service is pleasant and efficient, and our expectations are not set for much more than that, even at very high end places.

[jayandstacey]

I propose an experiment. People go to restaurants and get expected service - nothing outrageously good or bad. Then they tip: either 15% or 30%, randomly. Then they randomly either call afterwords and complement the service to the manager, or don't call at all. Perform this many times, with each of the 4 combinations, to many different wait staff.

My hypothesis: if the diner went back to the same server a week later, virtually the only diners to be recognized will be the ones that called and complemented the effort, regardless of the tip size. But that's a guess only.

My takeaway would be that excellent service deserves a call. To others' points - the tip might get shared, the tip might be offset by a bad tip from another table, etc. Just tip if you must, but call and complement.

(BTW - the point about the shared tips wasn't a request to know the general rule but a request that individual establishments disclose how the tips are shared, if at all. I concur. Once or twice I tipped in a Christmas gift that became a monster tip - but it might have just all diluted to a bunch of people...)

[DaveO]

Here is an interesting article from a restaurateur who eliminated tipping, replaced it with a service fee and distributed the monies between front of the house and back of the house:   http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/08/tipless_restaurants_the_linkery_s_owner_explains_why_abolishing_tipping.html?google_editors_picks=true

[monavano]

What is the usual tip added for a group in the DC area now? I thought it was 18%?

[Barbara]

What is the usual tip added for a group in the DC area now? I thought it was 18%?

In DC, anyway, the restaurant tax is close to 10%--and, you are correct that 18% is the usual add-on for parties of 6 or more--so, it is very easy to just double the tax to figure out a tip. My problem with upping the tip percentage is that it raises the compensation for waiters, while everybody else's pay is stagnant--or worse. I personally would rather patronize a place that pays ALL its workers a living wage and takes the questionable part out of it.  It would certainly spare the waitrons the Church-going folk who leave a religious pamphlet instead of tip. (Obviously,.these are not the kind of places I frequent willingly.) Plus, the Europeans who vacation in the US won't be considered pikers for not knowing the culture here.

[Escoffier]

You may be interested in this article from Slate.

[Choirgirl21]

One thing that would be good to know when tipping is wether the tip is going directly to the server, or is being pooled to be distributed, and if it's the latter, who's in the pool?

Is it kosher to just ask your server this question? I do ask bartenders whether tips are pooled anytime they offer to transfer a bar tab over to our table when it becomes available. The last thing I'd want is to let them transfer the check and then not get their share of the tip so if tips aren't pooled, we make sure to close out our bar tab and include that tip when we do.

I tend to be overly generous when I tip and should probably stop, especially because I eat out often enough to be a "regular" somewhere where they might actually remember my generosity and perhaps reward me with more attentive service.

[DonRocks]

Is it kosher to just ask your server this question? I do ask bartenders whether tips are pooled anytime they offer to transfer a bar tab over to our table when it becomes available. The last thing I'd want is to let them transfer the check and then not get their share of the tip so if tips aren't pooled, we make sure to close out our bar tab and include that tip when we do.

I tend to be overly generous when I tip and should probably stop, especially because I eat out often enough to be a "regular" somewhere where they might actually remember my generosity and perhaps reward me with more attentive service.

A certain (very small) percentage of the tip money gets distributed, but not enough to be meaningful. Even when the money gets "pooled," it's heavily skewed in favor of servers.

One way you can get the kitchen staff more money is to ask to briefly speak with the chef or sous chef, stuff a $20 (or, preferably, $20 in small bills) in her hand, and ask her to share this money with her cooks. It can be done quickly, discretely, and without drama, and I do it fairly often.

Daikaya Ramen (downstairs) has a "buy your cooks a six-pack option" for $10, and the kitchen staff gets to enjoy a six-pack after their shift - it works out to cost only $1.66 a beer. Love it! Last time I went, I bought them $20 worth and I hope they got a good, healthy start on their post-shift buzz.

[DanielK]

At Craftbar in NYC this past winter I tipped the backwaiter separately from our server. Service overall was excellent, and 6 months later I can't even remember exactly what it was that he did that we all felt he deserved something extra. Not sure if this is just how Colicchio trains their staff, or this guy was bucking for a promotion to server, but I slipped him some cash separately, and made sure to say something to the manager on the way out the door.

[DaveO]

One of the ways a non server/non bartender makes more money is with a barback at very busy high volume bars or clubs.   In some of those cases at these high volume bars, bartenders pool all their money and divide the total tips.  Depending on the place and the bartenders they can tip out the barback at 10,15, .20%   In some cases a particular bartender might be more generous than others if a barback is assisting 2 or more bartenders that don't pool tips and/or work in adjacent bars.

In busy places and on busy nights those barbacks make a couple of hundred extra dollars.  They are minimum salaried people and in very busy bars they work like crazy.  They keep those busy bars functioning and allow the bartenders to just pour.   In busy bars where the bartenders can make a lot of $$$ and if they are reasonably smart they know the barbacks are worth that money and happily tip out the barbacks.

How widespread is that practice?   I don't know.  I do know its pretty consistent in DC in various high volume/high speed bars and clubs.

Of course that doesn't do anything for the back of the house in the kitchen.   What they are doing for the bartenders is what the kitchen is doing on behalf of the servers.

At places like the Clydes group and other restaurants that have food runners....the waiters have reasonably easy jobs in my opinion.  The waiters's job is to sell and upsell.  I think they better be as food runners make waiters' jobs far easier.

Its astounded me at various restaurants that have food runners when I never get subtle or soft regular efforts at upselling and at the same time I see the wait staff hanging out.     What a waste from a management perspective.   (again my $0.02)  

[Gary Tanigawa]

Pete Wells in NY Times

[dcs]

One of the ways a non server/non bartender makes more money is with a barback at very busy high volume bars or clubs.   In some of those cases at these high volume bars, bartenders pool all their money and divide the total tips.  Depending on the place and the bartenders they can tip out the barback at 10,15, .20%   In some cases a particular bartender might be more generous than others if a barback is assisting 2 or more bartenders that don't pool tips and/or work in adjacent bars.

In busy places and on busy nights those barbacks make a couple of hundred extra dollars.  They are minimum salaried people and in very busy bars they work like crazy.  They keep those busy bars functioning and allow the bartenders to just pour.   In busy bars where the bartenders can make a lot of $$$ and if they are reasonably smart they know the barbacks are worth that money and happily tip out the barbacks.

How widespread is that practice?   I don't know.  I do know its pretty consistent in DC in various high volume/high speed bars and clubs.

Of course that doesn't do anything for the back of the house in the kitchen.   What they are doing for the bartenders is what the kitchen is doing on behalf of the servers.

At places like the Clydes group and other restaurants that have food runners....the waiters have reasonably easy jobs in my opinion.  The waiters's job is to sell and upsell.  I think they better be as food runners make waiters' jobs far easier.

Its astounded me at various restaurants that have food runners when I never get subtle or soft regular efforts at upselling and at the same time I see the wait staff hanging out.     What a waste from a management perspective.   (again my $0.02)  

I'm Not a Bartender, I'm a Bar-Back

[Dr. Delicious]

I noticed, when I was recently in Miami, that every restaurant we went to automatically included a tip amount on the bill (usually 18%), which you could then increase or decrease at your discretion, and it happened regardless of party size. I liked it!

[Toogs]

I don't think this warrants its own thread, so I will put it here.  I was recently in Waterton, Canada, and every meal we had, they brought a credit card swiper/computer gadget to the table.  You swipe your own card and then there are buttons for tipping--zero percent, 10 percent, 15, 20, and input your own number.  This is fucking brilliant and ought to be standard everywhere.  Number 1, you never lose sight of your credit card.  Number two (speaking as an ex-waiter) if someone is going to stiff you they have to have the balls to do it right there in your face.

[DonRocks]

I don't think this warrants its own thread, so I will put it here.  I was recently in Waterton, Canada, and every meal we had, they brought a credit card swiper/computer gadget to the table.  You swipe your own card and then there are buttons for tipping--zero percent, 10 percent, 15, 20, and input your own number.  This is fucking brilliant and ought to be standard everywhere.  Number 1, you never lose sight of your credit card.  Number two (speaking as an ex-waiter) if someone is going to stiff you they have to have the balls to do it right there in your face.

Oh, this is all over Canada, and is also in France and other European countries - it's quite common in bistro settings. The first time you encounter one, it's a bit shocking and you don't quite know what to do.

[Toogs]

Canada tips the same as America, as far as I could find out.  Anyway I know it's a completely different subject but this thread reminded me of it.

[DonRocks]

Canada tips the same as America, as far as I could find out.  Anyway I know it's a completely different subject but this thread reminded me of it.

Yes, I'm sorry - I was thinking of the European countries.

I don't know what these guys make, but I hope it's a lot. I honestly wouldn't do this for a million dollars.

[DannyNoonan]

I stumbled across this article today and thought it was relevant to the discussion. Seems as if maybe Mario Batali and some others think similarly....

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-09-11/batali-raises-minimum-wages-maximum-prices-at-tony-del-posto

[jayandstacey]

Easiest to simply round each tip to $200:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4enUE8qt_Q

[DonRocks]

Easiest to simply round each tip to $200:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4enUE8qt_Q

Nothing against these servers, or, for that matter, the tippers, but ... if they only knew how much more the line cooks, runners, dishwashers, etc. could have used the money.

The servers will have a great night out on the town with this money, and good for them; the dishwashers, runners, and line cooks would have had an easier time paying their rent which they struggle to afford. That's what kills me watching this, and if the tippers only knew better, they'd have placed the money in a less overtly rewarding, but more actually rewarding, pair of hands.

Would someone please comment on that video, and link to this post? I'll defend my words. People would do the right thing if only they knew.