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Oldest Restaurants in the Washington, DC Area


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Thanks, weezy - it's even written on their sign that they've been open since 1972. I inserted it in the list, and also corrected Booeymonger (I had it listed as 1975; their own site says 1976 for the Jennifer Street outlet.

Oh man. one of their original sandwiches, the gurubin was named after a friend of the owners, a guy I knew, a sort of guru himself named rubin. What a memory.

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O'Donnell's Sea Grill (that's what it's now called) says "since 1922" on its website, and I have 1941 listed as the opening date (with the present location since 2001). Can anyone clarify this? And does anyone know if the original family has owned it straight through, or if ownership has changed?

There are very interesting subtleties and nuances in maintaining a list such as this, and O'Donnell's is a classic example of a restaurant with all the twists and turns in the book. What constitutes "being the same restaurant?" We can discuss it all we'd like, but I've already thought about every combination and permutation, and ultimately, it comes down to a judgment call by The Committee.

Is Frozen Dairy Bar & Boardwalk Pizza, in a different location, with different ownership, and a different name (except for the Frozen Dairy Bar part), with the original Electro-Freeze machine long-since retired and discarded as scrap metal, subject for inclusion? I think not. I have a general set of criteria that I apply (both to this, and also to which restaurants are considered "chains" and are thus included in a single thread, and to which restaurants aren't and are thus entitled to their own thread), and it usually works pretty well; there are several examples (refer to the Ray's group for the most "vocal" example) where even the best-intended formula becomes tenuous when applied robotically (*). The application boils down to being able to predict the future (actions of the maniacal owner).

Was my recent review of Retro Ray's adequate?

(*) Stated in its simplest form, the formula is as follows: three criteria 1) ownership 2) name 3) location are examined, and if 2 of the 3 remain intact, then the restaurant remains in the same thread. Here are the specific situations:

ONE OF THREE THINGS CHANGED

1. A restaurant is sold to a new owner, but the old name and location remain the same. Most Recent Example (MRE): Radius Pizza. Thread is maintained with new ownership noted when possible (it is impossible to keep up with every ownership change).

2. A restaurant is rebranded with a new name, but the ownership and location are kept. MRE: Teatro Goldoni -> Look. Thread is maintained with new name noted (it is always possible to keep up with name changes).

3. A restaurant moves (or opens another location), but the ownership and name are kept. MRE: Retro Ray's in the Ray's The Steaks Group. Thread is maintained with the title adjusted to reflect the new location or the expansion (it is always possible, for small restaurants, to keep up with this; it is impossible to keep up with this for large chains).

To Summarize, the same thread is kept every single time when only one thing changes.

TWO OF THREE THINGS CHANGED

1. A restaurant changes its owner and name, but the location remains the same. MRE: Hearthstone Pizza Bistro. Thread is split into two restaurants, the old one (usually marked closed and retired), or, in the case of a single location being sold (as in the case of Cafe Pizzaiolo selling a single location to Hearthstone Pizza Bistro), two threads are maintained (it is always possible to know this for small restaurants; not always possible for large chains).

2. A restaurant changes its owner and location, but the name remains the same. MRE: I don't know, but Gifford's is a prime example. Just as I don't have a good answer for Oldest Restaurants in the Area, I don't have a good answer for the threads. My inclination is to include it in the Oldest Restaurants in the Area thread iff (if, and only if) there hasn't been a gap in time, but to split the threads for the individual restaurants (it is not always easy to keep up with this, especially with smaller restaurants that aren't highly publicized).

3. A restaurant changes its name and location, but the owner remains the same. MRE: Fuego Cocina y Tequileria (this is essentially a restaurant group like Passion Food Hospitality opening a brand new restaurant). Thread is begun for the new restaurant (it is always possible to keep up with this situation).

THREE OF THREE THINGS CHANGED

1. A restaurant changes its owner, name, and location. MRE: Smashburger (this is essentially a brand new restaurant, or, in the case of Smashburger, the first one in the area). Thread is begun for the new restaurant (it is always possible to keep up with this situation).

When I break it down into these "truth tables," it seems quite simple, but it isn't. The most difficult choices I've made are with the Ray's Group (BY FAR - because of a barking owner, screaming at me for not giving each one of his babies a separate identity; yet, there are now fully FIVE Ray's restaurants, with mega-overlap, within a mile of each other in the Rosslyn-Courthouse corridor - think about that one), places like Indique and Indique Heights (which I've deemed a "chain" after having consulted with Vinod), Bombay Bistro (which Vinod still owns in Rockville, but no longer owns in Fairfax - think about that one for a moment. It's a prime example of "One of Three Things Changed, Example #1," with the exception that Vinod owns the Bombay Bistro in Rockville; someone else owns the Bombay Bistro in Fairfax. How can Vinod be held accountable for the Fairfax restaurant's actions? He cannot. That's why, in this case, I had to split it into two threads), La Canela and La Flor de la Canela in Rockville (the thread for La Flor de la Canela no longer exists because it has been "absorbed into" the La Canela thread since La Flor de la Canela closed, thus wiping it out for future Google searches - that's a very tough, non-obvious call with ramifications down the road for historians).

Do you guys see how much thought I've put into this?! I do hope that this is a model for "entity websites" from here to eternity, and that I'm hired as a logic consultant for a high six-figure salary because GodDammit I bloody well should be after all the shit I eat from angry owners.

Plus, what is a "name change?" Is Ray's The Steaks the same as Ray's The Steaks East River? I sure think so, especially when there's so much overlap on the menus. How I can I break these into separate threads when Matsutaki had a standalone restaurant in Worldgate, and a kiosk at the airport, or when District Taco has a truck and two brick-and-mortar establishments, or when Ben's Chili Bowl has its legendary U-Street location with a second vendor at Nationals Stadium (ditto Max's Kosher Cafe in Wheaton), and all four of those examples have only one thread?

You have no idea how much time, stress, and toil I put into thinking about these things, and also no idea how much hard, life-shortening work is incurred thinking about all the ramifications of my actions. I am laying the groundwork for future generations of websites, and nobody even realizes it.

My M.S. in Computer Science with a specialty in Database Theory? Guess what I'm applying it towards? This website is a classic hierarchical database, and that's why it's so damned logical. That's also why I'm so damned tired all the time.

Cheers,

Rocks

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Hey! Unless I missed it, Wagshal's isn't yet in this thread or on this list.

in business since 1925

Current location since 1939

Link

Hmm, well, Wagshal's wasn't considered since it's a market, not a restaurant. However, they *do* have table space out on the sidewalk - I myself have waited in line for sandwiches, and enjoyed a wonderful lunch there. What harm can it do to include them?

Incidentally, Wagshal's is introducing a new location in 2013 on New Mexico Ave.

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I'm not sure if we're into the 80's yet, but seeing a post about Pasta Plus in Laurel caused me to check out its opening date: February 1983. It's nearly 30 years old.

I'd lived in Greenbelt maybe a year (ca. 1984) when we heard about the restaurant and went there. We went semi-regularly until moving into DC in 1988. (We've probably only been a handful of times since then.) It's nice to know it's still performing well.

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I don't think I have seen The Golden Flame in downtown Silver Spring mentioned. It's one of those places you pass by and wonder about. It makes me think of the old Ferdinand's in Wheaton and the the Flaming Pit in Gaithersburg. I'm imagining old school, dark wood panel and captain's chairs kinda joint.

http://www.goldenflamerestaurant.com/

Wow, I didn't even know it was still there! There was a similar place in Langley Park called Charcoal House. Thanks, Deb - I'll put it in the list now.

BTW, it opened the same year as The Palm, so I suspect there were some elbows being thrown way back when.

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Rockville's Far East opened in 1974, I believe in the shopping center next door in what has recently been the Amina Thai space. Stanley, once the young man waiting your table, is now the venerable owner. Unfortunately I've forgotten the exact year in the 1980s that they moved into their current building, with its large banquet space upstairs, but likewise I can no longer remember how many wedding banquets I've attended there, including my own.

And does UMd's Turner Lab qualify, dishing out ice cream since 1924? (I still miss the little parking area out front facing Rt 1, removed probably in the 1970s.)

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Rockville's Far East opened in 1974, I believe in the shopping center next door in what has recently been the Amina Thai space. Stanley, once the young man waiting your table, is now the venerable owner. Unfortunately I've forgotten the exact year in the 1980s that they moved into their current building, with its large banquet space upstairs, but likewise I can no longer remember how many wedding banquets I've attended there, including my own.

And does UMd's Turner Lab qualify, dishing out ice cream since 1924? (I still miss the little parking area out front facing Rt 1, removed probably in the 1970s.)

I could swear I've been to Far East before. (Weren't you wearing red silk?)

Does Turner Lab have any tables? Is it part of the Dairy Science program at UMd? If so, we had one of these at Clemson - they sold milk, ice cream, and (of all things) blue cheese (I've actually seen this in restaurants as "Clemson Blue"). I'm pretty sure it was just a stainless steel counter with a makeshift cash register that sold milkshakes in styrofoam cups. I guess this could be on the list if they've been operating non-stop (does anybody care one way or the other?) I wonder if they and Wagshal's (opened in 1925) were sending telegraphs across town saying "Fuck you!" in Morse code.

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Hmm, well, Wagshal's wasn't considered since it's a market, not a restaurant. However, they *do* have table space out on the sidewalk - I myself have waited in line for sandwiches, and enjoyed a wonderful lunch there. What harm can it do to include them?

Incidentally, Wagshal's is introducing a new location in 2013 on New Mexico Ave.

In the nice weather, Wagshal's usually has half a dozen tables outside. And, irrespective of weather, they've always had about the same number of counter seats inside. Washal's has two locations in the Spring Valley center. One is a pure market with produce, packaged goods and all manner of meats and seafood. That one is newer. The original deli, about 5 doors down on the other side of the CVS, is the one with the seating that is mostly deli and wine. Posted some thoughts from a visit last week here.

FWIW, have very mixed feelings about the new location planned for the old Balducci's space on New Mexico. On one hand, more Wagshal's is a great thing, very exciting and welcome. On the other hand, the new location will have seating for 100! I'd hate to see them over stretch as so many others do. Good example of that now is Teasim, which opened a much larger and tough-to-fill location in an area of Old Town without much foot traffic.

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I don't think I have seen The Golden Flame in downtown Silver Spring mentioned. It's one of those places you pass by and wonder about. It makes me think of the old Ferdinand's in Wheaton and the the Flaming Pit in Gaithersburg. I'm imagining old school, dark wood panel and captain's chairs kinda joint.

http://www.goldenflamerestaurant.com/

I came across a post in Bethesda Magazine that Chef Pedro Matamoros is now at Golden Flame (link here). (Also announcement on Golden Flame's Facebook page.)

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Wow, I didn't even know it was still there! There was a similar place in Langley Park called Charcoal House. Thanks, Deb - I'll put it in the list now.

BTW, it opened the same year as The Palm, so I suspect there were some elbows being thrown way back when.

There is also a place called the Golden Bull in Adelphi that is still there and I was taken there once in the late 1970's. Are the "Golden" places linked up somehow?

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I could swear I've been to Far East before. (Weren't you wearing red silk?)

Certainly, as one does! By the way, about two months ago Far East added three chefs from Guangdong province, and has begun serving a limited dim sum lunch menu. During the week, items may be ordered from an abbreviated dim sum menu during lunch hours only. On weekends from 10:30 until...uh, maybe 3...the downstairs dining room has dim sum cart service. So far, this doesn't seem to have been noticed outside of the Chinese community. Based on a visit a week ago, so far it's okay, with some items better than par, but a number of items could be hotter, and some of the sticky rice wrapper items were a bit oversteamed. Not yet in a position to challenge New Fortune, but promising.

There is also a place called the Golden Bull in Adelphi that is still there and I was taken there once in the late 1970's. Are the "Golden" places linked up somehow?

The Golden Bulls were (the Gaithersburg location seemed to have a lock on the local Boy Scout father-son dinner biz), but I think that's about it. ISTR the Adelphi location being more lounge-like.

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Murry and Paul's Restaurant. 3513 12th St., NE, Brookland. (Date Needed.)

Could it possibly be 1927? Or perhaps even earlier?

I suspect the business was open then, but it changed hands/names. If anyone could find out a date for Murry and Paul's, I'd appreciate it.

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O'Donnell's Sea Grill (that's what it's now called) says "since 1922" on its website, and I have 1941 listed as the opening date (with the present location since 2001). Can anyone clarify this? And does anyone know if the original family has owned it straight through, or if ownership has changed?

There are very interesting subtleties and nuances in maintaining a list such as this, and O'Donnell's is a classic example of a restaurant with all the twists and turns in the book. What constitutes "being the same restaurant?" We can discuss it all we'd like, but I've already thought about every combination and permutation, and ultimately, it comes down to a judgment call by The Committee.

...

Bethesda Magazine reports O'Donnell's is closing on July 27. The article also says that the current owner is the grandson of the founder.

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O'Donnell's Sea Grill (that's what it's now called) says "since 1922" on its website, and I have 1941 listed as the opening date (with the present location since 2001). Can anyone clarify this? And does anyone know if the original family has owned it straight through, or if ownership has changed?

There are very interesting subtleties and nuances in maintaining a list such as this, and O'Donnell's is a classic example of a restaurant with all the twists and turns in the book. What constitutes "being the same restaurant?" We can discuss it all we'd like, but I've already thought about every combination and permutation, and ultimately, it comes down to a judgment call by The Committee.

Is Frozen Dairy Bar & Boardwalk Pizza, in a different location, with different ownership, and a different name (except for the Frozen Dairy Bar part), with the original Electro-Freeze machine long-since retired and discarded as scrap metal, subject for inclusion? I think not. I have a general set of criteria that I apply (both to this, and also to which restaurants are considered "chains" and are thus included in a single thread, and to which restaurants aren't and are thus entitled to their own thread), and it usually works pretty well; there are several examples (refer to the Ray's group for the most "vocal" example) where even the best-intended formula becomes tenuous when applied robotically (*). The application boils down to being able to predict the future (actions of the maniacal owner).

Was my recent review of Retro Ray's adequate?

(*) Stated in its simplest form, the formula is as follows: three criteria 1) ownership 2) name 3) location are examined, and if 2 of the 3 remain intact, then the restaurant remains in the same thread. Here are the specific situations:

ONE OF THREE THINGS CHANGED

1. A restaurant is sold to a new owner, but the old name and location remain the same. Most Recent Example (MRE): Radius Pizza. Thread is maintained with new ownership noted when possible (it is impossible to keep up with every ownership change).

2. A restaurant is rebranded with a new name, but the ownership and location are kept. MRE: Teatro Goldoni -> Look. Thread is maintained with new name noted (it is always possible to keep up with name changes).

3. A restaurant moves (or opens another location), but the ownership and name are kept. MRE: Retro Ray's in the Ray's The Steaks Group. Thread is maintained with the title adjusted to reflect the new location or the expansion (it is always possible, for small restaurants, to keep up with this; it is impossible to keep up with this for large chains).

To Summarize, the same thread is kept every single time when only one thing changes.

TWO OF THREE THINGS CHANGED

1. A restaurant changes its owner and name, but the location remains the same. MRE: Hearthstone Pizza Bistro. Thread is split into two restaurants, the old one (usually marked closed and retired), or, in the case of a single location being sold (as in the case of Cafe Pizzaiolo selling a single location to Hearthstone Pizza Bistro), two threads are maintained (it is always possible to know this for small restaurants; not always possible for large chains).

2. A restaurant changes its owner and location, but the name remains the same. MRE: I don't know, but Gifford's is a prime example. Just as I don't have a good answer for Oldest Restaurants in the Area, I don't have a good answer for the threads. My inclination is to include it in the Oldest Restaurants in the Area thread iff (if, and only if) there hasn't been a gap in time, but to split the threads for the individual restaurants (it is not always easy to keep up with this, especially with smaller restaurants that aren't highly publicized).

3. A restaurant changes its name and location, but the owner remains the same. MRE: Fuego Cocina y Tequileria (this is essentially a restaurant group like Passion Food Hospitality opening a brand new restaurant). Thread is begun for the new restaurant (it is always possible to keep up with this situation).

THREE OF THREE THINGS CHANGED

1. A restaurant changes its owner, name, and location. MRE: Smashburger (this is essentially a brand new restaurant, or, in the case of Smashburger, the first one in the area). Thread is begun for the new restaurant (it is always possible to keep up with this situation).

When I break it down into these "truth tables," it seems quite simple, but it isn't. The most difficult choices I've made are with the Ray's Group (BY FAR - because of a barking owner, screaming at me for not giving each one of his babies a separate identity; yet, there are now fully FIVE Ray's restaurants, with mega-overlap, within a mile of each other in the Rosslyn-Courthouse corridor - think about that one), places like Indique and Indique Heights (which I've deemed a "chain" after having consulted with Vinod), Bombay Bistro (which Vinod still owns in Rockville, but no longer owns in Fairfax - think about that one for a moment. It's a prime example of "One of Three Things Changed, Example #1," with the exception that Vinod owns the Bombay Bistro in Rockville; someone else owns the Bombay Bistro in Fairfax. How can Vinod be held accountable for the Fairfax restaurant's actions? He cannot. That's why, in this case, I had to split it into two threads), La Canela and La Flor de la Canela in Rockville (the thread for La Flor de la Canela no longer exists because it has been "absorbed into" the La Canela thread since La Flor de la Canela closed, thus wiping it out for future Google searches - that's a very tough, non-obvious call with ramifications down the road for historians).

Do you guys see how much thought I've put into this?! I do hope that this is a model for "entity websites" from here to eternity, and that I'm hired as a logic consultant for a high six-figure salary because GodDammit I bloody well should be after all the shit I eat from angry owners.

Plus, what is a "name change?" Is Ray's The Steaks the same as Ray's The Steaks East River? I sure think so, especially when there's so much overlap on the menus. How I can I break these into separate threads when Matsutaki had a standalone restaurant in Worldgate, and a kiosk at the airport, or when District Taco has a truck and two brick-and-mortar establishments, or when Ben's Chili Bowl has its legendary U-Street location with a second vendor at Nationals Stadium (ditto Max's Kosher Cafe in Wheaton), and all four of those examples have only one thread?

You have no idea how much time, stress, and toil I put into thinking about these things, and also no idea how much hard, life-shortening work is incurred thinking about all the ramifications of my actions. I am laying the groundwork for future generations of websites, and nobody even realizes it.

My M.S. in Computer Science with a specialty in Database Theory? Guess what I'm applying it towards? This website is a classic hierarchical database, and that's why it's so damned logical. That's also why I'm so damned tired all the time.

Cheers,

Rocks

http://odonnellsrestaurants.com/about-us/ I rememeber the "second" E street restaurant from the early 50's with my family. Apparently their first restaurant was only a couple of doors down. Not sure if is actually shared the same kitchen at one point.

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Yesterday's Arlnow.com post about the Crystal City Restaurant included this tidbit:

Crystal City Restaurant first opened at The Arlington Luncheon in 1941. Back then, it was just a normal restaurant.

His father, William Bayne, Sr., purchased the restaurant in 1963 and then renamed it Crystal City Restaurant around 1970, when the neighborhood was first dubbed Crystal City. A relatively short time thereafter, Bayne Sr. added topless dancing to bring in more customers.

So, Don: that's 1941, but 2 out of 3 things changed (type I) in the 1963-1970 timeframe. But with a special asterisk for "restaurant mission" changed as well.

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So, Don: that's 1941, but 2 out of 3 things changed (type I) in the 1963-1970 timeframe. But with a special asterisk for "restaurant mission" changed as well.

Great stuff! Definitely added to the list, and you have no idea how tempted I was to put in a note about box lunches.

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This article made me think of Stans on Vermont Avenue in the District.  I can't vouch that it was opened by 1979 or earlier.  I do know it was open in 1981 and it seemed like a place that had been around a while.   The point about that article that made me reflect on Stan's is that it has the same reputation today as it did at least as far back as 1981:   It serves incredibly strong drinks.

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Have I gone mad?

Was it Pasta Mia?

I was almost sure Mixtec closed for a time, but I really can't remember when, or even if.

Well, it's certainly possible (for both questions). Mixtec has gone through several changes--primarily adding the space next door, which used to be a sleazy "newsroom" back when I first moved here in 1976. I had it on good authority that a variety of porn could be bought there (this was long before Dame Edna moved to the neighborhood, for those of you wondering about the source of my info). Then, it turned into a Spanish-language travel agency/variety store. Mixtec then expanded into that space. I've only dined at Pasta Mia once, because that was quite enough.  All of this to say that if Mixtec indeed closed for any length of time, it was quite a while ago.

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Pasta Mia I know nothing about except that it is not worth eating at.

I still miss what was there before - the New Orleans Cafe (and its elder sibling around the corner, the New Orlenas Emporium.).

So, maybe you are thinking of the time between those?

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Pasta Mia I know nothing about except that it is not worth eating at.

I still miss what was there before - the New Orleans Cafe (and its elder sibling around the corner, the New Orlenas Emporium.).

So, maybe you are thinking of the time between those?

Ah, so. I was just going by there today and realized that the space I had attributed to the travel agency, etc., is still available for rent.  It was indeed part of the New Orleans Emporium (which was closed because of its fake sprinkler system). -_- I had forgotten that I had really bad service there, once. Mistaking fried oysters for fried okra? With its suitable upgrade in price? It was all BDE (Before Dame Edna). We've been together since 1986--you do the math. (Just for fun--or to get my goat, your choice--Dame Edna will ask me "What did that use to be?" at whatever old building we are going by.  It's getting harder, my friends.)

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 We've been together since 1986--you do the math. (Just for fun--or to get my goat, your choice--Dame Edna will ask me "What did that use to be?" at whatever old building we are going by.  It's getting harder, my friends.)

Hm. I met the boy in 1983 and married him in 1988.  I am more likely to remember what something used to be than he is, although he generally remembers once I tell him. (Oh yeah, they had the good whatever....)

Then again, I lived in Adams Morgan for 2 years before we got married. He was still on campus for one of those years, then in Shaw. And I worked in Adams Morgan (Hazel's, Armand's) for a year of that.

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mixtec was closed for several weeks a few years ago due to a water main break on Columbia; I think it flooded their basement and they used the time to revamp some of the kitchen area. Memory is a bit hazy.

That sounds vaguely familiar . . . (Ya know, I could just walk into the place and ask somebody).

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After seeing the Grevey's thread pop up to the top recently, I saw this mention of it today:  open 34 years.

That would most likely make it 1979 which qualifies it for the list.

Last week I drove by B&J on Rhode Island Ave. and 3rd Street NW which has been open in LeDroit Park since 1972. This may be a carryout-only, but seeing as through they've been serving BBQ and Mac-n-Cheese for 41 years, I think we can cut them some slack.

Both of these are going up top in post #1.

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What about Al's Steakhouse in Alexandria? 1956 according to their website. When we first moved to the area, a coworker raved about it (1990). Apparently it was quite the lunch/after school spot for the kids in her time.

http://www.alssteak.com/

Also, relatives who grew up on the hill still fondly remember going to Mangialardos as kids. Did I miss seeing that?

http://www.jonlhussey.com/blog/2011/02/05/mangialardos-57-years-on-capitol-hill/

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I could swear I've been to Far East before. (Weren't you wearing red silk?)

Does Turner Lab have any tables? Is it part of the Dairy Science program at UMd? If so, we had one of these at Clemson - they sold milk, ice cream, and (of all things) blue cheese (I've actually seen this in restaurants as "Clemson Blue"). I'm pretty sure it was just a stainless steel counter with a makeshift cash register that sold milkshakes in styrofoam cups. I guess this could be on the list if they've been operating non-stop (does anybody care one way or the other?) I wonder if they and Wagshal's (opened in 1925) were sending telegraphs across town saying "Fuck you!" in Morse code.

I can confirm that Far East is owned by the same family.  When they moved to the area they were my parent's neighbors.  My dad used to help them fix things around their house.  After one such time, they asked my dad what they could do to repay him.  Jokingly, my dad said make me a meal.  My parents keep their own style of Kosher.  Mom was embarrassed by my dad's request.  Never-the-less, the Wong's sent their chef with my mom to the Kosher supermarket to pick out ingredients and the chef prepared a banquet  in their house.  We still occasionally go to Far East, and now it is run by the children, but still the same family.

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