Park The Segway Outside

[bilrus]

Many tourists come to DC and rent Segways, then want to go out for a good dinner.  So where should we send them, that they can talk about what a great time they had in DC, and about the DC Segway experience?

Many DC area Segway

Can't they leave them outside? I don't get what the issue is here.

Again, barring disability, how is this any different than me pulling up to a restaurant in my mammoth SUV? Or someone who rode their motorcycle there? Should I be looking for SUV freindly stickers in the windows of restaurants?

No - because I'm not looking to park my truck IN THE RESTAURANT.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

No - because I'm not looking to park my truck IN THE RESTAURANT.

This could vary depending on the restaurant.

[Al Dente]

Can't they leave them outside? I don't get what the issue is here.

Again, barring disability, how is this any different than me pulling up to a restaurant in my mammoth SUV? Or someone who rode their motorcycle there? Should I be looking for SUV freindly stickers in the windows of restaurants?

No - because I'm not looking to park my truck IN THE RESTAURANT.

Well put. Can we segue into some other topic now?

[TedE]

Many tourists come to DC and rent Segways, then want to go out for a good dinner.  So where should we send them,

To the same place as anybody who owns a $4,000 triathlon bike and chooses to ride it to dinner: somewhere with a secure bike rack outside the window where they can keep an eye on their expensive toy.

edit: bilrus beat me to the point

Edited January 18, 2006 by TedE

[porcupine]

Well put. Can we segue into some other topic now?

And the winner is... Al Dente!

[ScotteeM]

I've been dying to get into this thread all day! But my boss had this crazy idea that I should be doing, like, work, at work, and my husband wanted dinner when I got home.

As someone with an invisible disability, I've enjoyed this discussion. We as a group have really covered a lot of ground, and pounded out a lot of the arguments on this topic.

The bottom line is that the person with a disability [PWD] gets to select the best assistive device for his or her individual situation. The ADA requires that business owners make appropriate accommodations (unless the cost to make such accommodations would have a profound effect on the business). The ADA does not require that PWDs certify or justify their chosen assistive device (the issue of permits for parking spaces is separate).

Often I can walk unaided. Sometimes I require assistance. I hate using a cane. I would really hate using a wheelchair, which would put other people's belt buckles at my eye level. Because standing is often no more painful for me than sitting (the problem is walking), I might well choose a Segway.

My first choice of devices for mobility assistance would be a 90-lb Doberman Pinscher--trained, of course (I'm still waiting for mine to be born). They're easy to keep clean (short-haired, single-coated), fold up into small spaces, are extremely intelligent and easily trained, and are darned good company. They also give restaurant staff apoplexy, partly due to health code issues, and partly due to the potential reactions of other diners. The ADA supercedes health codes, so that's not an issue, but many is the time that PWDs employing Service Dogs have had to explain to the local constabulary, called by restaurant staff, their right to dine in a particular restaurant. The ADA also says that PWDs with Service Dogs do not have to provide documentation pertaining to their disability or to the dog's training to provide assistance. It does allow the business management to exclude Service Dogs that display aggressive behavior.

Segways may or may not catch on as a popular mode of transport, regardless of the user's abilities or disabilities. Able-bodied users should find outdoor places to secure their Segways. PWDs using Segways will have to be accommodated by restaurants and other public places just as those using wheelchairs, motorized wheelchairs and carts, canes, and 90-lb Dobies or 200-lb Newfoundlands (and 20-lb Bostons like my first Service Dog, who was not trained for mobility assistance but for other assistance) must be. The ADA says that the establishment may ask if the device is being employed to mitigate a disability, but no certification or paperwork is required. Ask politely, and accommodate when necessary.

Etiquette must always rule. I do my part, and I hope others will, too.

[Joe H]

This is a digression but I walk about 25 to 30 miles a week. Every week. It's been an obsession of mine for over twenty five years since having lost 142 pounds on a diet. And gaining most back within several years. When I again lost over 100 pounds I swore that I would find a way to manage my weight and still indulge, at least part time, my love of food. That way was walking and it was then that I started.

Today I walked in 38 degree weather with a 20 mph wind blowing in my face. Yesterday I walked in a cold, biting rain. These were not the kind of walks that I enjoy and look forward to in more idyllic, inspiring weather. But yesterday and today, as others, I told myself that at least I CAN walk-the day may come when I am not able to. I also thought about this thread and my own reaction to a Segway at a trade show two years ago.

This has been a good thread for me. It's reminded me never to take health for granted. One day I may not have it. Thanks to so many for reminding me of this.

[ScotteeM]

This is a digression but I walk about 25 to 30 miles a week.  Every week.  It's been an obsession of mine for over twenty five years since having lost 142 pounds on a diet.  And gaining most back within several years.  When I again lost over 100 pounds I swore that I would find a way to manage my weight and still indulge, at least part time, my love of food.  That way was walking and it was then that I started. 

Today I walked in 38 degree weather with a 20 mph wind blowing in my face.  Yesterday I walked in a cold, biting rain.  These were not the kind of walks that I enjoy and look forward to in more idyllic, inspiring weather.  But yesterday and today, as others, I told myself that at least I CAN walk-the day may come when I am not able to.  I also thought about this thread and my own reaction to a Segway at a trade show two years ago.

This has been a good thread for me.  It's reminded me never to take health for granted.  One day I may not have it.  Thanks to so many for reminding me of this.

Joe,

I'm glad you can walk. I'm also glad that you don't take that for granted. I wish I could walk like that. Mobility impairments are very isolating. But no how much one exercises, certain illnesses will take that away--exercise is not always protection or prevention.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Dogs and mobility assistance???? This is a new one on me. What do you do, ride the things (hence the reference to the larger breeds)?

[monavano]

Dogs and mobility assistance???? This is a new one on me. What do you do, ride the things (hence the reference to the larger breeds)?

Good question. In the case of PWD whose impairment is mobility, the larger dog breeds are used as an assistive device, much like a cane. The dog aides in balance and weight bearing. It can stabilize and even pull (ie: uphill) when needed. This is done via a harness. Interstingly, they aid in helping the PWD up to their feet should they fall, by acting as a bench which can be leaned on to stabilize. Thus you can see this is no job for Chihuaha's and Maltese's!.
Dogs are also combined with a mobility device, such as a wheelchair, to retrieve , pull,etc.
Finally, and perhaps most helpfully, they give the owner confidence, and strangers a means to approach the PWD, thus facilitating social interaction and public education.
Personally, I've got no problems with dogs in restaurants when accompanying PWD. My 3 are in my kitchen and by my table everyday.

Edited to add: In a restaurant, or any place ALWAYS ask the owner if you can pet the dog should the urge arise. Many dogs are trained to keep their mind on work while wearing the harness or vest, and thus are not to be approached socially. Edited July 31, 2013 by RWBooneJr.

[Nadya]

We had a blind guest dine with us once with a guardian dog. That dog had better manners than most children. Walked the lady to her table and made himself comfortable under the table while she ate, not a motion or a sound. No problem at all.

[qwertyy]

Good question. In the case of PWD whose impairment is mobility, the larger dog breeds are used as an assistive device, much like a cane. The dog aides in balance and weight bearing. It can stabilize and even pull (ie: uphill) when needed. This is done via a harness.

Dogs are also combined with a mobility device, such as a wheelchair, to retrieve etc.

Finally, and perhaps most helpfully, they give the owner confidence, and strangers a means to approach the PWD, thus facilitating social interaction and public education.

Personally, I've got no problems with dogs in restaurants when accompanying PWD. My 3 are in my kitchen and by my table everyday.

But strangers aren't supposed to touch or pet the dogs because they're working, right? I just saw someone petting another person's service dog unbidden and was wondering about that...

[monavano]

But strangers aren't supposed to touch or pet the dogs because they're working, right? I just saw someone petting another person's service dog unbidden and was wondering about that...

yes, I edited to add this upthread.

[William Collins]

If he was disabled in a way that was invisible, i.e. not immediately obvious to people around him, all he had to do was mention to us that he has difficulty moving around by other means. I would have kept my big trap shut and no one around here would have heard a whiff of this story.

We bend over backwards to accommodate disabled customers, and certainly would not have objected to someone's unconventional way of dealing with their disability, if that disability existed.

Ok I am New here this my first Post and I just had to put my two cents in on this Thread...I am 72 years old I have a Segway, I can stand for long periods but can't walk for two long for two reasons ,one I get out of breath--Two I get Shin Splints(Pain in the calf) from walking ..When segway came Out I thought is was a Blessing in disquise. I am not considered Disabled by law..And I do use my Segway to go all over Town where I use to have to drive and use up Gas..Again another reason the Segway is good..I go into all the Restaurants and Stores in my Town and am Welcome to bring the Seg in with me..So I have to disagree with Nadya in most all that she has Posted. And the ones that seem to be agreeing and showing Smikes between the lines and Joking. Even tho I have what I consider my disability I will not goto a Doctor to get a Letter of Disability till my problem is really Bad ..I let the Parking spots in parking to the ones that are confined to wheelchairs..Not for me because of a little pain...The Segway does away with that..Just my two Cents

And I will not visit the Bistho Bis on my future trips to my trips to DC,I have been there but walked in. I'll take my Business to a Place that will Welcome a Customer wheather there on Segway or Wheel Chair or by Foot...And besides the segway takes up much less room then a WheelChair

[mxyzptlk]

In recent history, Segways have traditionally been used as personal transportation devices by people who do NOT require them as aids. This thread is the first time I've heard of people using Segways as something aside from leisure purposes. That's not to say that there is anything wrong with using Segways as a personal aid, that's great if that works for you, but there is a perception inertia that people are going to need to get over.

Edited January 19, 2006 by mxyzptlk

[Jacques Gastreaux]

So I have to disagree with Nadya in most all that she has Posted. And the ones that seem to be agreeing and showing Smikes between the lines and Joking.

First of all, I don't see any of the "smiles and joking" that you sense. I don't think there is a sole person on this board who thinks that use of a Segway by someone who otherwise can't get around is illegitmate. Until Nadya started this post, I think most of the people who populate this board were unware that Segways were used as mobility devices, certainly Nadya was unaware, and so was I. Nadya's case, from all outward appearances, seems to be a smartass Segway user pushing the limits of senseability, not someone using the device for mobility. After all, despite Nadya's surprise and skepticism, she was able to find a place to stow the thing. Refusing to patronize Bis becasue of this incident is wrongheaded.

Edited January 19, 2006 by Jacques Gastreaux

[Banco]

And I will not visit the Bistro Bis on my future trips to my trips to DC,I have been there but walked in. I'll take my Business to a Place that will Welcome a Customer wheather there on Segway or Wheel Chair or by Foot...And besides the segway takes up much less room then a WheelChair

Please read before you rant:

If he was disabled in a way that was invisible, i.e. not immediately obvious to people around him, all he had to do was mention to us that he has difficulty moving around by other means.

[mxyzptlk]

Until Nadya started this post, I think most of the people who populate this board were unware that Segways were used of mobility devices, certainly Nadya was unaware, and so was I....Refusing to patronize Bis becasue of this incident is wrongheaded.

I have to wholeheartedly agree.

Let's take the inverse of this... say I decided to start using a wheelchair to commute to work and I am able-bodied and don't require the use of one to get around, I just like to wheel myself around in a wheelchair. Certainly people's behavior toward me will be different than if I were riding a bike (or even Segway) around town. Everyone assumes that wheelchairs were/are being used only by people who needed to use them, not for leisure, and until that mentality changes, people will assume that I require it, not that I choose to use one. I think the same principle applies here. Nadya can't be blamed for anything, because in the end, she did find a place to store it.

[DonRocks]

After all, despite Nadya's surprise and skepticism, she was able to find a place to stow the thing.  Refusing to patronize Bis becasue of this incident is wrongheaded.

Not to mention that Bis has a 2002 Josef Leitz Rudesheimer Klosterlay Kabinett for twenty dollars a bottle.

Twenty Dollars A Bottle!

This may be the best twenty-dollar bottle of wine available at any Washington-area restaurant. Just don't drink it and get on a Segway afterwards; otherwise that Segway will need to be renamed Gangway.

Nadya, you looked lovely last night, dahlink.

Rocks

p.s. And the sweetbreads were great! Great!

[Escoffier]

...

p.s.  And the sweetbreads were great!  Great!

I'm so happy you didn't say YOUR sweetbreads were great! Great!...the image, the image...

[Al Dente]

I saw a woman at Buck's Fishing and Camping riding a Segway whilst simultaneously breast-feeding and snapping pictures of an iceburg wedge.

[TedE]

Clicky to see the view from the other side.

(edit: (again!). bad link, thanks shogun)

Edited January 19, 2006 by TedE

[DonRocks]

[Rocks - time to lock this baby down?]

[Nah, because I want to give Segway users more time to register and comment if they wish. For now, I do think we should either get back on topic or let the thread drop down, but my guess is that this subject isn't over just yet.

I'm also thinking there must surely be a way for me to leverage this situation into a free Segway. How about a 20-second clip of me rolling down M Street, without any clothes on, and pulling up to the valet at Citronelle?]

[Walrus]

Clicky to see the view from the other side.

(edit: (again!).  bad link, thanks shogun)

To which I say, emphatically, Whatever.

I can understand someone's frustrations at having their disability questioned (you might not believe some of the nasty looks I got when I had a back spasm and had to temporarily use a [non-medical-looking] cane), but I honestly can't see how it would be that much of a trial for this particular man to walk from the entrance of the restaurant to a seat.

Surely these folks don't ride their Segways throughout their homes? Please feel free to flame me if I'm wrong.

In addition, this topic did not begin as an attack of any kind on all Segwayists. It was surprise at the assumption made by the rider that it would be fine and dandy to just ride right on in. I think the point made earlier is valid -- just ASK and ye shall receive. Nadya -- and Bis -- would have been more than happy to make arrangements given notice -- or to let the gentleman know in advance that there was not room for such a device to maneuver appropriately, if that was the case. The key here -- as for ANY special request -- is prior communication.

Finally, it does not appear that her assumption of the health of the gentleman was incorrect -- there is mention of him dismounting and wheeling it around to find a place to leave it. This does not sound to me like someone who needs a Segway for basic mobility.

[jparrott]

How about a 20-second clip of me rolling down M Street, without any clothes on, and pulling up to the valet at Citronelle?]

Would you be using your body double?

[Walrus]

PS: On the Segway Chat, this link was shared:

HANDICAP STICKERS FOR SEGWAY

http://street.safeshopper.com/333/1365.htm?624

So there are stickers, they are used, and the people from the SegForum who used them did not seem to feel discriminated against or treated unpleasantly.

Just FYI.

[Spiral Stairs]

This point was made upthread, but I'll make it again because it's the conclusive one for me. Putting aside the issue of Segways as an aid to the disabled (an issue not presented here), what difference is there between a Segway and a bicycle? No one expects to ride his or her bike up to the hostess stand and ask the restaurant to supply a storage spot for it. If you want to ride a bike, then it's your responsibility to find a place to store it. If you can't find a place to store it, then maybe you shouldn't be riding your bike. Lobby government officials for public storage spots, if you'd like, but don't expect a private business to accommodate your hobby.

Now, it is apparently the case that Segways are sometimes used as mobility aids. Does that fact mean that we should always assume they are used as mobility aids? Of course not. We don't assume that every dog on the street is a trained service animal. And if, for whatever reason, it isn't apparent from the circumstances that a service dog is a service dog, the dog's owner should inform others of it when necessary.

The solution isn't to treat all dogs as service dogs. Likewise, the solution to the Segway issue isn't to treat all Segways as mobility aids.

[Al Dente]

Benford's Law of Controversy

Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available.

This thread reminds me of the confirmation hearings going on for Supreme Court justices...

Senator Windbag: Judge O'Pinyonless , what is your opinion on Segways in restaurants.
Judge O'Pinyonless: I cannot answer that question because the case may come before the court.
Senator Windbag: Well let me tell you why this concerns me Judge. Little Susie Kyuteseepie from my hometown uses a Segway to make her way to and from elementary school where she is studying to become a restaurant critic. I'm outraged that your views may ruin her future job opportunities ad nauseum, etc.

[Roger Troutman]

Is it possible to train a dog to be ridden on by a human being? Is there even such a breed with a back strong enough to support an adult of average size?

[Principia]

Clicky to see the view from the other side.

(edit: (again!).  bad link, thanks shogun)

Once again, I find it interesting to note that the guy who came on here from the forum was rather snarky, but yet we're being characterized as being snotty about Segway riders. The issue is not the device itself, it's how the people that use them choose to behave. We're not harshing on Segway users, and certainly not on persons with disabilities - we're taking issue with presumption and rudeness, which in this instance happened to coincide with the rather ostentatious use of a specific device. We could just as easily have been talking about inconsiderate cell-phone users or rude smokers.

On the subject of Seg-users who would rather not reveal that they're disabled (as was discussed up-thread) - that's like someone who needs reading glasses going on a dinner date without them because they want to look pretty, and then getting pissy at the waitstaff because they weren't offered a large-print menu. If one is too vain to request or otherwise make apparent the need for accommodation (i.e., some sort of tag), then one shouldn't expect to be accommodated. If the Original User had needed his device for anything other than swanning about, I'm sure that a simple "I'm sorry, I need this," would have sufficed.

And again I would point out that Segway has made a smaller version of the HT (the p133) that seems to have been designed specifically to better adapt to indoor usage. I'm sure restaurants would have a far easier time providing storage for that iteration of the Segway.

Or maybe we're all just jealous that Segway owners can afford to blow the cost of a used car on one of these puppies. Speaking of which, does anyone know if Segways have been certified by Medicare/Medicaid as a device?

[JPW]

Speaking of which, does anyone know if Segways have been certified by Medicare/Medicaid as a device?

Probably not. The following quote is sprinkled throughout the Segway website

(The Segway HT has not been designed, tested, or approved as a medical device.)

No direct reference to medicaid/care.

[Billy DeLion]

I want to thank Joe H for his reply reminding us all to cherish our health. I enjoyed Nadya's story and laughed again as it made its way into the Post.

Reading this thread - and it's evolution into the realm of disabilities - has compelled me to post in order to remind many people here that they vastly underestimate the complexity and emotions involved in the life of a person who faces a disability everyday. It may seem easy and logical to make assumptions about their behavior and the "rules" that should govern such behavior, but it is not and much leeway needs to be given.

Sorry about the non foodie soapbox, but it is my reaction to this thread.

Sincerely,

BD

[Principia]

Did he leave a tip for using the coat check?

I'm sure he probably figured he was doing Nadya a favor, as she could've just hung a couple of coats off the handles!

[DC Roadhog]

[i'm also thinking there must surely be a way for me to leverage this situation into a free Segway. How about a 20-second clip of me rolling down M Street, without any clothes on, and pulling up to the valet at Citronelle?]

No problem about getting a glide, we would be glad to get you a demo Mr. Rocks. Or stop in at the downtown dealership, and they will give you an in-store, inside demo.

On the topic of having your Segway valeted, when we were out at the Inn at Little Washington last spring, we did have them valeted! And just about everyone stopped by the table and asked about them.

My favorite line from a downtown DC valet when I showed up on my Segway, was, "buddy for 10 bucks I will valet anything"

Enjoy the Glide Folks!

[B.A.R.]

This isn't about disabilities. I haven't seen anyone say that they think the disabled shouldn't be able to use a Segway anyway they please.

This thread is about the inconsiderable people in our society that choose to glide their Seussian thromdimbulators anywhere they please.

Pass the ketchup, and I am rollerblading to Bis for happy hour.

[edited at B.A.R.'s request]

Edited January 20, 2006 by DonRocks

[Joe H]

I want to thank Joe H for his reply reminding us all to cherish our health. I enjoyed Nadya's story and laughed again as it made its way into the Post.

Reading this thread - and it's evolution into the realm of disabilities - has compelled me to post in order to remind many people here that they vastly underestimate the complexity and emotions involved in the life of a person who faces a disability everyday. It may seem easy and logical to make assumptions about their behavior and the "rules" that should govern such behavior, but it is not and much leeway needs to be given.

Sorry about the non foodie soapbox, but it is my reaction to this thread.

Sincerely,

BD

Thank you, BD. And thank you for your perceptive, empathetic post.

[DonRocks]

Few people realize that the longest known bowel movement - 25,000 miles - occurred shortly after a multi-hour dinner at Fogo de Chao: the diner left the establishment in his personal flying machine, and decided to go ahead and circumnavigate the equator because he didn't have anywhere else he needed to be.

Click

[seglb]

As a segway owner, I must say that it was very rude of this person to ride in without asking. There are businesses I ride into, but only after talking to the business to get their permission. Others, I just park the segway outside. On the other hand when the segway is parked, it takes up only a 2'x2' footprint, and much smaller above the tires. I take it into some extremely small businesses here in Belmont Shore, and park it against the wall, and nobody trips over it.

I must say that the reactions seen on segway chat probably have much to do with the unplesant comments and even sometimes violent acts we segway users deal with on a daily basis. As I ride my segway to work, I generally recieve at least 5 rude comments every day. Of course i also get 20-25 thumbs up or bicyclists wanting to know about my segway. And now, one more article with segways in a bad light. Oh well.

Surely these folks don't ride their Segways throughout their homes?

In addition to having them feel entitled to bring their machines inside, you'll have them thinking that they're entitled to free electricity.

I ride up to the door, open the door, ride into the living room, and park it by the plug. I also ride it into my friends house and park it right next to his segway. The silica based tires leave no marks, and the machine takes up very little room. Several of the establishments I visit let me ride in and plug in. Many people don't realize how little electricity these machines use. In the 2 hours i would be in a restaurant the machine would consume less than $0.05 of electricty assuming the battery was drained enough that it was charging the whole time. I'm guessing the average check in this restaurant could cover that, or they could add a $2.00 segway surcharge, and make money on the deal.

what difference is there between a Segway and a bicycle?

Among others, a segway is classified as an EPMAD and as such is classified as a pedistrian in many states. Also, the ability to stand in place and the ability to turn 360* in place might be differences.

Speaking of which, does anyone know if Segways have been certified by Medicare/Medicaid as a device?

When Dean Kamen sold the manufacturing right for the Ibot wheel chair to Johnson and Johnson, they allowed him to retain rights to use the balancing technology for other products, but only if that technology was not used in a medical device. Because of that contract, segway inc. will not attempt certification as a medical device.

until some yahoo riding down the sidewalk (mine was actually a cop) nails you in the back with the damn thing

In my experience, as first an owner, and now a dealer, police are by far the worst operators. They refuse to listen to instruction, and believe that they will "control" it by force if neccesary. Unfortunately for them, the segway requires that you let the machine balance you, and that you be smooth and delicate with your movements, or the segway is jerky and extremely difficult to ride.

Segways are machines used to get from one place to another. They are vehicles.

That sounds a lot like the cop who refused to read the letter I carry from the city attorney's office stating that my city's "scooter laws" do not apply to segways. He was smarter than everyone, and refused to be educated. In the end, a second cop showed up, read the city attorney's letter, and I glided away.

Anyway, thanks to Don for allowing me to talk on this subject.

Mike

[Walrus]

I add, from the other forum, from a very reasonable post (in my opinion) from a Chicago Segwayian,

"Sometimes just a little common sense--like walking in first to ask if it's okay--can change everything."

Thanks, too, to Mike for offering a calm and well-thought-out response to the concerns and questions raised earlier. I do wish to clarify that what I was envisioning with my comment about riding the Segs in the house wasn't restricted to just entering and parking, but to riding, say, to the living room to watch TV, and then to the kitchen for some snacks, etc. -- the home-based equivalent, it seems to me, to riding a Segway not just up to a restaurant but then expecting to ride it between tables and seated patrons until dismounting at your seat.

[seglb]

Walrus, in my 1400 sq.ft. house, that makes no sense. However, Shaquille O'neil has several segways he rides around his huge house in orlando. I cannot believe someone would want to ride through a restaurant without being invited first. That would be idiotic to say the least. Most of the places I go, I pull in, find a spot next to a potted plant, and park it against the wall

[hillvalley]

/steps up on to soapbox/

I finally had a chance to sit down and read this entire thread as well as the comments on the segchat forum. What disappoints me the most about the thread is the apparent lack of understanding of the disabled. Scotty is right, having a disability-mobility related or oherwise-can be a very isolating experience. People with disabilities have just as much right as you do to their privacy. You cannot assume that you know everything about a person's physical or mental ability just by looking at them.

Furthermore, I thought we as a society were moving past the assumption that all disabilities are visible and moving toward respecting the privacy of those with a disability. Apparently we still have a lot of work to do.

Having watched this incident explode on this board, in the Post, and on other boards I think what is most important is that there is hopefully a new level of tolerance and understanding. If I had been in Nadya's place (which will hopefully never occur because I don't know if I could put up with crap that she does ) I think I would have made the same assumption. Knowing Nadya and the wonderful person that she is, I know she will handle this situation differently in the future. And hopefully other restaurateurs who read our site will educate their front of the house about this situation and the appropriate way to handle it. That's the best one could hope for.

/Steps off of soapbox/

As for service dogs, they are used for all sorts of disabilities and medical conditions, as was mentioned up thread. In addition to helping with mobility, stability and vision, people with epilepsy and autism also use them. As far as I know, service dogs usually have on either a special harness and/or vest. If you see a service dog and their owner, leave 'em alone. They are working hard, whether or looks like it or not.

Edited January 21, 2006 by hillvalley

[ScotteeM]

As for service dogs, they are used for all sorts of disabilities and medical conditions, as was mentioned up thread.  In addition to helping with mobility, stability and vision, people with epilepsy and autism also use them.  As far as I know, service dogs usually have on either a special harness and/or vest.  If you see a service dog and their owner, leave 'em alone.  They are working hard, whether or looks like it or not.

Hillvalley,

You've done a great job of summarizing the discussion. I just want to add a few more cents to it.

WRT your statement above, you are almost completely correct. Service Dogs are amazing creatures, and can provide assistance for a broad array of physical and psychiatric disabilities (I want to be clear that I consider psychiatric illnesses to actually be physical illnesses, as they are to do with brain chemistry and physical structure, not with character or will). Many of them do indeed wear a vest or a harness with a designation of some sort that identifies them. However, the ADA does not provide for any requirement that service animals be outfitted with any particular equipment or adornment or identification. There is also no "certification" of service animals required by the ADA. This can lead to abuse, but that is sometimes easy to spot--a dog that behaves in a disruptive or aggressive manner, for example. The ADA similarly does not require a PWD to carry documentation pertaining to his or her disability. The reasons for these non-requirements are very good ones, IMO, and have been discussed at great lengths on lists devoted to the topic.

This all does come down to etiquette, disability or no. Having a disability does not excuse anyone from being polite (although sometimes constant pain can make one a bit irritable). A hostess in a restaurant should be able to politely say, excuse me, but might we park your Segway out of the path of the servers? Do you need it to get to your table? A Segway rider, whether disabled or not, should recognize the novelty of this mode of transport and be ready to politely explain that it is needed for mobility or that it can be parked out of the way, and to ensure that there is enough clearance in the traffic lanes for the Segway to move through. Someone in a power wheelchair wouldn't expect to motor into a restaurant without ensuring that it is indeed wheelchair accessible and there is enough clearance for the chair to move through the restaurant.

The etiquette regarding Service Dogs is fairly simple. Obviously, in most jurisdictions in the US, pet dogs are not permitted in restaurants. A person entering a restaurant accompanied by a dog may be asked by a member of the staff, "Is this a service dog?" and/or "Do you have a disability?" If the patron with the dog answers yes to these questions, no further discussion of the subject should occur. When seating the PWDWSD, the host or hostess might ask if the table offered will accommodate the SD lying underneath. The SD, for its part, should not block traffic or beg for food or display aggression or soil the premises, and the PWD may be asked to remove the dog or mitigate the situation if any of those things do occur. Also, some states, like Virginia, accord equal rights of access to Service Dogs in training, when accompanied by a qualified trainer (the definition of which is intentionally vague). A dog in training should be no more disruptive than a trained SD.

[DC Roadhog]

This ongoing blog thread has made the Red Key - which is the Segway Users online news magazine.

http://www.theredkey.net/

[Tarkus]

I am a disabled Segway user and I don't think that there was any bashing of the disabled here.

In the original post nothing was said about a person with a mobility problem, that was read in latter.

If you chose to use a Segway, a product of universal design, as a mobility device than be ready to answer questions or fly a disability sticker. Thats just the way it is.

This was not about a disability it was about Segging on private property without first getting perimission.

Rude is rude be it a Seg or a bike or .............

[DCMark]

Anyone agree that this thread (on page 3) has jumped?

[CrescentFresh]

Talk about staying power.

[William Collins]

One thing that has not been addressed..Why one rides the segway into an establishment ...While your standing on the segway you take no more room then then if you left it out side..if you dismount and try to bring it inside , you would be like pushing or pulling a handtruck or wheelbarrel..So what would you have me do the latter and yell "Gangway" or the former and just say "Excuse me" and glide in...That is first if I was allowed in with the segway in the first place. I can glide one mile an hour or the top speed of 12.5 My choice..I read all the treads here it still seems most of you still don't understsnd a segway, some consider it a MotorVehicle, some a toy some a mobility device (which it is) Some of you are hardheaded against it from the start and will never consider the good points. And lastly some I think are just jealous and would like to have a segway.So post negative remarks ..And some are resonable to the various uses of a new technology be it for the disable or ablebodied person. It' here and adjust to it . Just like 100 years ago the Horse and Wagon people had to adjust to the Automobile

The Picture is myself on the left at Rockerfeller Center on an XT unit and a tourest tring out a Demo ( Nice young lady from Canada)

[Escoffier]

One thing that has not been addressed..Why one rides the segway into an establishment ...While your standing on the segway you take no more room then then if you left it out side..if you dismount and try to bring it inside , you would be like pushing or pulling a  handtruck or wheelbarrel..So what would you have me do the latter and yell "Gangway" or the former and just say "Excuse me" and glide in...That is first if I was allowed in with the segway in the first place. I can glide one mile an hour or the top speed of 12.5  My choice..I read all the treads here it still seems most of you still don't understsnd a segway, some consider it a MotorVehicle, some a toy some a mobility device (which it is) Some of you are hardheaded against it from the start and will never consider the good points.  And lastly some I think are just jealous and would like to have a segway.So post negative remarks ..And some are resonable to the various uses of a new technology be it for the disable or ablebodied person. It' here and adjust to it . Just like 100 years ago the Horse and Wagon people had to adjust to the Automobile

The Picture is myself on the left at Rockerfeller Center on an XT unit and a tourest tring out a Demo ( Nice young lady from Canada)

I'm curious as to why you'd want to take it into a restaurant at all? You're not a PWD, you're able-bodied, you wouldn't drive your pickup truck into a restaurant lobby, why would you ride a motorized vehicle (and by definition, that's what a Segway is) into one? Why not just lock it up outside (like people with bicycles seem to do) and walk through the door. If you have a medical reason, fine. If you have a self esteem reason, not so fine. Just because you classify it as a mobility device, I could apply that label to motorized skateboards, Ferraris, and probably HUMVEEs. I don't think that means I can park them in some restaurant coatroom, or worse, take them to the table with me. I have nothing against Segways or any other "new" device, I just have problems with people who seem to think they can flaunt their toys and make others feel envious.

[Meaghan]

I actually rode (drove? operated? flaunted? ) a Segway right around the time they hit the U.S. market (just a test run). It's a strange feeling motoring around that height! I'm inclined to think it's possible that some become addicted to it. Not me though, I'd be arrested for drunk Segway-ing.

Edited January 22, 2006 by Meaghan

[Barbara]

It's a strange feeling motoring around that height! I'm inclined to think it's possible that some become addicted to it.

You may be onto something here. Back when SUVs were new, a lot of people liked that they could see over traffic (although folks in regular cars couldn't see around the SUVs ). 'Course, now that there are so many SUVs on the road, that particular advantage has been lost for the most part. With Segways there does seem to be a "Look At Me" aspect to them, as well; although I suppose you could say that about anything new on the market. Remember when it was thought that using a Walkman in public was considered "rude?"