Pizza Terrorists (AKA The Chicago Fan Club)

[Tujague]

Pizzeria Orso's Steep Price Point: Hey Tom--love your chats. My husband and I are Falls Church natives and ate at Pizzeria Orso for the first time for Sunday lunch, and while the food was great, I'm worried that the restaurant won't succeed in the long run because of its price point--for two small (the "12 inch" description is pushing it!) pizzas (the Filetto and the Orso) and a $5 Peroni draft, we spent $47 including tax and tip. That is just wayyy too much for such a small amount of food, especially in Falls Church. I'm submitting this comment in case the owners are reading the chat and consider reducing their prices a bit--we want restaurants like this to stick around, but just can't stomach spending 50 bucks on two tiny pizzas and a beer!! It's the economy, stupid!!

Tom Sietsema writes: Here's your plea. But the prices at Orso, whose (traditional) 12-inch pizzas run from $7 to $15, are more or less in line with the Neapolitan competition. Consider the following: The 10-inch pies at Two Amys in Upper NW and the new Il Canale in G'town go for $7.95 and $12.95 and $10 and $15, respectively. Over on the Hill, Seventh Hill Pizza sells its 8-inch rounds for $9.95 to $10.95. And Pacci's in Silver Spring, the 12-inch pizzas go for between $8 and $13.50.

Tom, you disputed the Fall's Church poster's concern about Pizzeria Orso's prices with examples of 1 DC restaurant that has a long-time following, 2 new places, both of which is are in pretty high-income neighborhood; and 1 example in Silver Spring (no indication of how long that one's been around). You don't know whether Il Canale or Seventh Hill will survive at those price points, and expectations and incomes in Falls Church aren't the same as what they are in Georgetown or Capitol Hill. You shouldn't have been so dismissive of the poster's concern.

Tom Sietsema writes: Did what I type sound "dismissive?' It certainly wasn't intended to be. I guess one of my points is, Orso is a really attractive space with a talented pizza master at the oven (and the pies didn't seem that small to me).

So, does (or should) the difference of neighborhood really make a difference in price? The complainers seem to be asserting that the average income of the neighborhood is the determining factor here, with no consideration of what the comparable overhead costs are, or even the degree to which any of these places draw customers from beyond their immediate environs. I can't speak to Pacci's or Il Canale, but 2 Amys is a largish, stand-alone space in an expensive neighborhood, and seems to draw a clientele from a wide swath of the metro DC area. Seventh Hill is in a tiny space with limited seating in an area with high rent costs, and probably draws mostly from the immediate neighborhood, except on weekends when the outdoor markets are open (and appears to do great business, regardless). I'm not unsympathetic to how costly a seemingly simple meal can be, but I'm not sure that being in Falls Church rather than Capitol Hill is what would determine how much these places charge. Thoughts? (And, fwiw, I didn't think Tom was being dismissive, just putting Orso in context with comparable pizza places in the area.)

[Ericandblueboy]

Pizzeria Orso's Steep Price Point

I'm worried that the restaurant won't succeed in the long run because of its price point--for two small (the "12 inch" description is pushing it!) pizzas (the Filetto and the Orso) and a $5 Peroni draft, we spent $47 including tax and tip. That is just wayyy too much for such a small amount of food, especially in Falls Church. I'm submitting this comment in case the owners are reading the chat and consider reducing their prices a bit--we want restaurants like this to stick around, but just can't stomach spending 50 bucks on two tiny pizzas and a beer!! It's the economy, stupid!!

Wait, are they concerned about Orso's ability to survive or are they too cheap to spend $50 on pizza? They seem to couch their price-bitching as concern for the restaurant's ability to survive. The pizzas come only in 1 size, there's no large so there can't be any "small" either. If they want large pizzas for $10, they should call Pizza Hut

I live in McLean and I have been to Orso 3 times since it opened. I think Orso, due to its quality, will draw people from all over NOVA, maybe even DC and MD.

[monavano]

Wait, are they concerned about Orso's ability to survive or are they too cheap to spend $50 on pizza? They seem to couch their price-bitching as concern for the restaurant's ability to survive. The pizzas come only in 1 size, there's no large so there can't be any "small" either. If they want large pizzas for $10, they should call Pizza Hut

I live in McLean and I have been to Orso 3 times since it opened. I think Orso, due to its quality, will draw people from over all NOVA, maybe even DC and MD.

I think the chatter was expressing concern that they, along with many other budget-conscious folks with limited discretionary funds will find the cost of going out to get good pizza prohibitive. I mean it's pizza people! This is what my family did for a fun night out-give mom a break in the kitchen-kid-friendly dinner. Who the hell can take a family of 4 out with these prices?

When I know how easy pizza is to make at home, and how cheap it is, I tend to agree with the notion that 2 pies and a beer for $47 is outlandish.

ps..calling the chatter out as cheap, is a cheap shot.

[Ericandblueboy]

I think the chatter was expressing concern that they, along with many other budget-conscious folks with limited discretionary funds will find the cost of going out to get good pizza prohibitive. I mean it's pizza people! This is what my family did for a fun night out-give mom a break in the kitchen-kid-friendly dinner. Who the hell can take a family of 4 out with these prices?

When I know how easy pizza is to make at home, and how cheap it is, I tend to agree with the notion that 2 pies and a beer for $47 is outlandish.

ps..calling the chatter out as cheap, is a cheap shot.

I think Louis Vuitton luggage is too expensive. Should I write them and tell them that they should lower their prices? I mean, how are they gonna survive selling man-bags for $3,000? Why should Louis Vuitton sell for $3,000 when Cole Haan only charges $500 for the same size bag? The answer is, while most people need luggage, they don't need a Louis Vuitton. While people need affordable dining options, they don't need to go to Orso. If Orso is sitting empty, then the prices are probably too high. If Orso is selling plenty of pizzas making a nice profit but the chatter can't afford it, then it's just too bad for the chatter.

P.S. I understand that times are tough for some people and it's not politically correct to tell people to piss off if they can't afford something. But I don't see pizza as being different from any other types of food. There are cupcakes that sell for $5, coffees that sell for $5, ice-cream that sell for $5. In each case the business can charge whatever the market will bear. If that happens to be higher than what one is willing to pay, then that person can look for a lower priced substitute.

[leleboo]

The pizzas come only in 1 size, there's no large so there can't be any "small" either.

I don't think they were saying they ordered small versus large, just that the pizzas that came were small (not appearing even to be the 12 inches in diameter noted as the size available). Not that that has much of an impact on their point, whatever it may have been.

[sandynva]

I think the chatter was expressing concern that they, along with many other budget-conscious folks with limited discretionary funds will find the cost of going out to get good pizza prohibitive. I mean it's pizza people! This is what my family did for a fun night out-give mom a break in the kitchen-kid-friendly dinner. Who the hell can take a family of 4 out with these prices?

When I know how easy pizza is to make at home, and how cheap it is, I tend to agree with the notion that 2 pies and a beer for $47 is outlandish.

ps..calling the chatter out as cheap, is a cheap shot.

I agree that it seems a bit high and i do think the chatter pointed out something that shoudl be a valid concern to the owners. looking at the menu, the prices for pizzas with cheese, which would seem to be the most commonly ordered, seem to range, on average, from $12-$16 per individual pizza. That's a higher range than the prices at the other places listed, even though all of them, presumably, have higher rent. So, it's not just that the prices are higher than dominos, it's that they're high, even for the higher end pizza places and might be prohibitive to families wanting an easy dinner out. Which would be a bigger problem for orso than for the other places listed, because i'd imagine that the population of falls chuch has a higher proportion of families than the hill or georgetown does, so orso will be discouraging a larger part of its potential client base.

[monavano]

I think Louis Vuitton luggage is too expensive. Should I write them and tell them that they should lower their prices? I mean, how are they gonna survive selling man-bags for $3,000? Why should Louis Vuitton sell for $3,000 when Cole Haan only charges $500 for the same size bag? The answer is, while most people need luggage, they don't need a Louis Vuitton. While people need affordable dining options, they don't need to go to Orso. If Orso is sitting empty, then the prices are probably too high. If Orso is selling plenty of pizzas making a nice profit but the chatter can't afford it, then it's just too bad for the chatter.

"Let them eat cake", or something like that.

[giant shrimp]

if i were to round up all the ingredients to make a pizza at home tonight i doubt i would do it for less than $12.

[mdt]

if i were to round up all the ingredients to make a pizza at home tonight i doubt i would do it for less than $12.

I assume that you saying that you would not make one for less than $12 as the ingredients are rather inexpensive.

[Sthitch]

There are plenty of places that offer a kindergarten atmosphere where families can get out and let their kids run wild while enjoying pizza, maybe the ownership of Orso never had plans cater to that crowd.

[monavano]

My guess, what with a couple cups of flour, a little yeast, evoo, sugar, water, my own cheap-o homemade sauce, some buffalo mozzarello from Costo, leftover meatballs and some basil from my garden, this pie cost no more than $5, tops.

And it was damn good

[Sthitch]

My guess, what with a couple cups of flour, a little yeast, evoo, sugar, water, my own cheap-o homemade sauce, some buffalo mozzarello from Costo, leftover meatballs and some basil from my garden, this pie cost no more than $5, tops.

Did you factor in your time gathering ingredients, labor costs of making the suace and meatballs, the appropriate amount of cost per pie for transportation costs, rent, insurance, the grill, stone, peel, Costco membership... I could go on, but just based on factoring the cost of time it comes out well over what a pizza at Orso would cost.

[monavano]

Did you factor in your time gathering ingredients, labor costs of making the suace and meatballs, the appropriate amount of cost per pie for transportation costs, rent, insurance, the grill, stone, peel, Costco membership... I could go on, but just based on factoring the cost of time it comes out well over what a pizza at Orso would cost.

No, but you have a point here. Now that I think about the cost of my car, my car maintenance, gas and well, just my precious time driving to and fro, why I believe I've saved even more!

[pizza man]

A New York Neapolitan pizza heavyweight will reopen in San Francisco come May. ... and as a sign in his original joint read, "We have no quarrel with the man who sells cheaper pizza. He knows how much his is worth!" -Classic

[ktmoomau]

Well I live in Ballston and will happily make the drive and pay the cost of Orso quite often. I think if they can make a profit then they can charge what they want. I think if you want to take your kids out for pizza and have a more cost effective meal, drive another mile to Lost Dog they have good pizza and it is cheaper. And we all can live and let live. I don't really think it is supposed to be a "family" establishment, although I am happy to have families there.

I can understand some people thinking it was pricey. It might be, but I really felt it was worth it.

[Keithstg]

seems... think ...something... seem...seem to range... range... presumably... might be.. .imagine... potential .

Not for nothing, but if I was a local business owner and my pricing was discussed on line, in such vague and general terms, by folks with (by and large) no view into the costs associated with producing said product, I would scream. I've noticed this trend in the Cap Hill SE thread as well, particularly re: Ted's, but whatever. Yes, some places are more expensive than others. Yes, a TGI McFunster's in Des Moines will often be cheaper than a locally owned restaurant, particularly in a major metropolitan area. A restaurant, even a pizzeria, that aims to use the best ingredients and offer diners something better/ different than one could get elsewhere may be more expensive than others in their genre. This is news?

I look forward to trying Orso.

[Miami Danny]

Not for nothing, but if I was a local business owner and my pricing was discussed on line, in such vague and general terms, by folks with (by and large) no view into the costs associated with producing said product, I would scream. I've noticed this trend in the Cap Hill SE thread as well, particularly re: Ted's, but whatever. Yes, some places are more expensive than others. Yes, a TGI McFunster's in Des Moines will often be cheaper than a locally owned restaurant, particularly in a major metropolitan area. A restaurant, even a pizzeria, that aims to use the best ingredients and offer diners something better/ different than one could get elsewhere may be more expensive than others in their genre. This is news?

I look forward to trying Orso.

The chatter had a legitimate question-why is pizza so damn expensive at this establishment? Tom had a legitimate answer-it's expensive elsewhere, too. I agree that if a restaurant is too expensive for you, you should probably just dine elsewhere, rather than complain that the prices are too high. But if they are selling (less than 12") pies as 12" pies, as the chatter infers, that is another story.

[Tujague]

Not for nothing, but if I was a local business owner and my pricing was discussed on line, in such vague and general terms, by folks with (by and large) no view into the costs associated with producing said product, I would scream. I've noticed this trend in the Cap Hill SE thread as well, particularly re: Ted's, but whatever. Yes, some places are more expensive than others. Yes, a TGI McFunster's in Des Moines will often be cheaper than a locally owned restaurant, particularly in a major metropolitan area. A restaurant, even a pizzeria, that aims to use the best ingredients and offer diners something better/ different than one could get elsewhere may be more expensive than others in their genre. This is news?

I look forward to trying Orso.

That's what I'm getting at; I just don't buy the argument that because Orso is in Falls Church that it should de facto be cheaper than other comparable pizza places such as Seventh Hill. Even with a lower rent cost per square foot, Orso could easily have similar costs per square foot, given more space, more staff, ingredient sources, and other factors. (I don't know, but I would guess that those wood-burning ovens command a rather hefty insurance cost, regardless of what neighborhood they're in.) I'm never in Falls Church, but I find it striking that some have these location-based assumptions about lower costs and thus lower price points--and, it would seem, lower expectations.

[DanielK]

I think Ray's should lower the price at Hell-Burger. $7 for a burger, and $10 for a combo at lunch?

I mean, you can get an Extra Value Meal at McDonald's for $4, so how anyone should be expected to pay $10 for burger, fries, and a coke, in this economy?

[sandynva]

Not for nothing, but if I was a local business owner and my pricing was discussed on line, in such vague and general terms, by folks with (by and large) no view into the costs associated with producing said product, I would scream. ..... A restaurant, even a pizzeria, that aims to use the best ingredients and offer diners something better/ different than one could get elsewhere may be more expensive than others in their genre. This is news?

no it's not, particularly to anyone participating in this board. and it wasn't the point of my post, either.

i added the qualifiers to soften the blow to orso. i thought saying "most of the pizzas seem to be higher priced than those at the other places" was nicer than saying the prices at orso are noticeably higher than those at the other places mentioned, which as far as I can tell are similarly small, independently owned rather than chain establishments, using comparable ingredients (or at least two amy's is, i have no experience with the other two places).

And you don't need to have in depth knowledge of the industry to 1) express an opinion about whether you think a price will be reasonable to many people or not or 2) compare the prices at apples to the prices at other apples all of whom presumably deal with the same costs of producing food.

I've never been to Orso, and may not ever make it out there, but in general, anything that increases the amount of good pizza locally will find my support and i genuinely wish them success. They absolutely have the right to charge whatever they'd like for their pizzas. I just thought that the online chatter raised a point that might be of interest to the owners of Orso.

[giant shrimp]

I assume that you saying that you would not make one for less than $12 as the ingredients are rather inexpensive.

i probably could make a pizza for less than $12. however, where i come from a ball of buffalo mozzarella costs $7 or $8 just to start. and i would add parmesan and a third cheese. i like to use good tomatoes when they are available. at the farmers market last week, tomatoes were selling for $4.50 a pound (and they weren't that good, they are still coming in. fingerling potatoes from the same stand, which i used in a nicoise salad, were the same price.) i don't have a garden, so basil would probably be another couple of dollars. olive oil costs, yeast costs, flour costs, meat costs if i decide to add something like a salami

i haven't made pizza in maybe five years, and i would usually make two at once, but even in the winter when i was using sauce i paid more for ingredients than $24. i will admit that my pizzas are overloaded, you probably would never find them in a restaurant. actually, i like them better than what you can find in a restaurant, and i am fairly certain that at the price you would have to sell them for, you would put yourself out of business even if your customers thought they were the best pizzas they had ever eaten.

anyway, a 12-inch pizza should be enough for two people. if you can find a really good one for $12 and you don't have to make it yourself, that's a bargain.

the home-made pizza above looks good, i would expect to pay at least $12 for it in a restaurant and i know i would spend more than that making it at home.

[jparrott]

That's what I'm getting at; I just don't buy the argument that because Orso is in Falls Church that it should de facto be cheaper than other comparable pizza places such as Seventh Hill.

Prices aren't set to cover costs, prices are set to maximize revenue.

[thetrain]

anyway, a 12-inch pizza should be enough for two people.

A pizza and an appetizer split between two adults at orso is a satisfying meal, and can be had for under $20 (pre-tip). It's the same price as 2amys and only a minor mark-up from Pupatella (a smaller place w/o waiters) - I don't really understand the complaints.

[Waitman]

The chatter had a legitimate question-why is pizza so damn expensive at this establishment? Tom had a legitimate answer-it's expensive elsewhere, too. I agree that if a restaurant is too expensive for you, you should probably just dine elsewhere, rather than complain that the prices are too high. But if they are selling (less than 12") pies as 12" pies, as the chatter infers, that is another story.

I agree but: " But if they are selling (less than 12") pies as 12" pies, as the chatter infers implies, that is another story.

Prices aren't set to cover costs, prices are set to maximize revenue.

I agree but: "prices are set to maximize revenue profit.

Commenting on the value of a dish is clearly legit. It doesn't matter how damn good a pizza is, at some point it becomes a stupid investment.

[Pat]

The menu reads:

All pizze are approximately 12 inches, served unsliced and finished with olive oil unless otherwise requested. I'm going to figure that most people aren't coming in with a measuring tape, and , if they are, management has not promised a pizza that is exactly 12".

[DonRocks]

The menu reads:

All pizze are approximately 12 inches, served unsliced and finished with olive oil unless otherwise requested. I'm going to figure that most people aren't coming in with a measuring tape, and , if they are, management has not promised a pizza that is exactly 12".

My how you underestimate me.

I had this pizza, the Antica, this evening (along with three others). It's made with lardo, basil, and garlic (no cheese). The price? $7.00.

Seven dollars for eleven inches: Any problem with that?

Cheers,

Long Don Sliver.

P.S. Regarding the thread title, "sorry to say I'm hard." - Pete C.

[Michael Landrum]

I wonder if any one thought to check the girth?

[DonRocks]

I wonder if any one thought to check the girth?

That's why I said sliver.

[Ericandblueboy]

Commenting on the value of a dish is clearly legit. It doesn't matter how damn good a pizza is, at some point it becomes a stupid investment.

True dat, but the options in this case are to eat or not to eat, not to ask the restaurant to lower its prices (and mask it as concern over whether the restaurant would survive - it's this last part that's annoying). I've bitched and moaned plenty about value but I've never publicly (nor privately) asked for lower prices.

Cheers,

Long Don Sliver.

Maybe you should change your status

[Heather]

I've bitched and moaned plenty about value but I've never publicly (nor privately) asked for lower prices.

You might change your tune when your progeny gets old enough and hungry enough to eat two of those darling little $7-12 pies. I have two like that, and going out for pizza is a special occasion instead of an easy weeknight dinner out. The prices at Two Amys, Pacci, Roscoe's, Comet, Orso, etc., are a poor value for my family right now.

[pizza man]

I can't take my family of four out for Pho fo' less than, $40, at Pho 75 , and probably closer to $50 at Pho hot, (boba drinks for the kids, and eggrolls too.) I perceive this as a cheap family meal, even though I know the true cost to be much less. Value is where it is perceived.

How much does a pizza at pie tanza cost?

p.s. my kids are both >teenaged

[DanielK]

You might change your tune when your progeny gets old enough and hungry enough to eat two of those darling little $7-12 pies. I have two like that, and going out for pizza is a special occasion instead of an easy weeknight dinner out. The prices at Two Amys, Pacci, Roscoe's, Comet, Orso, etc., are a poor value for my family right now.

So, your assumption is that since pizza can be a cheap food, expensive pizza is a poor value. Let's say your kid does eat $20 worth of pizza there. Still less than if you'd taken the kid to Ray's or Bistro du Coin. But you have a higher perceived value of the food at these places.

IMO, this is the fundamental error. If you're comparing Orso to Dominos, dollar to dollar, it's going to lose. But I don't see anyone here suggesting that Ray's isn't a bargain because you can get a cheap steak at Sizzler, or buy select grade at Safeway and cook the steak at home.

[pizza man]

Orso Pizze have another value, they have been engineered, (yeah, that's right) to be highly digestible. We actually have had complaints that the pizze aren't filling, or are too small, etc. .. However, the doughballs weigh between, 255 to 265 grams, over half a pound. The slight variances in size can be blamed on; 1. skill of person stretching the dough, and; 2. 10 grams swing in actual dough ball size.

The toppings are the best that money can buy.

[mdt]

Orso Pizze have another value, they have been engineered, (yeah, that's right) to be highly digestible. We actually have had complaints that the pizze aren't filling, or are too small, etc.

Folks, in general, want quantity over quality. I cannot be the only one that hears folks talk about a restaurant they like and have them point out the large portions as top point. Taste and execution of the dish? What's that?

[Heather]

So, your assumption is that since pizza can be a cheap food, expensive pizza is a poor value. Let's say your kid does eat $20 worth of pizza there. Still less than if you'd taken the kid to Ray's or Bistro du Coin. But you have a higher perceived value of the food at these places.

IMO, this is the fundamental error. If you're comparing Orso to Dominos, dollar to dollar, it's going to lose. But I don't see anyone here suggesting that Ray's isn't a bargain because you can get a cheap steak at Sizzler, or buy select grade at Safeway and cook the steak at home.

I'm not taking my kids to Ray's or Bistrot du Coin these days either, except for special occasions like birthdays. I simply don't have the money to drop $100 on a dinner out once a week. That money can go to bills, therefore spending it on pizza is, for me, a poor investment. I would rather make it at home, even though it's not as "good" as buying it from a restaurant.

I am saying this not to criticize the restaurants, or the prices they charge. I'm merely pointing out that some people are not trying to decide whether or not to spend $100 on dinner on steak, pizza, or vichyssoise, but making the decision whether to spend $20 on a mass produced takeout pizza, or spend $10 and make their pizza at home. That may be where the original poster to Tom's chat is coming from.

[Heather]

And I have to add that the pun in the thread title has been haunting me all night.

[leleboo]

And I have to add that the pun in the thread title has been haunting me all night.

By "haunting" do you mean "has had 'Glory of Love' on permanent repeat in my brain"? Because if so: ditto. Argh.

[Heather]

By "haunting" do you mean "has had 'Glory of Love' on permanent repeat in my brain"? Because if so: ditto. Argh.

More like "If You Leave Me Now," and I really wish it would.

[lion]

I'm not taking my kids to Ray's or Bistrot du Coin these days either, except for special occasions like birthdays. I simply don't have the money to drop $100 on a dinner out once a week. That money can go to bills, therefore spending it on pizza is, for me, a poor investment. I would rather make it at home, even though it's not as "good" as buying it from a restaurant.

I am saying this not to criticize the restaurants, or the prices they charge. I'm merely pointing out that some people are not trying to decide whether or not to spend $100 on dinner on steak, pizza, or vichyssoise, but making the decision whether to spend $20 on a mass produced takeout pizza, or spend $10 and make their pizza at home. That may be where the original poster to Tom's chat is coming from.

As a teenager, Thursday nights in the 1980s was pizza night made at home by my mom and we would watch Magnum, pi and later on the Cosby show. Getting Pizza Hut was at that time still a special occasion thing, though by the time I was working in Tysons a few years later at the mall going to Shakey's or some place like that was more regular.

The original poster, from Tom's chat, being a long time resident of Falls Church has obviously seen the community change over decades most likely. From their point of view, the experience of paying for pizza a similar amount as going to a 'real restaurant' is probably a shock since this is a 'neighborhood' restaurant.

As for the cost per pizza, Pizzeria Orso is using high quality ingredients which if used at home which cost more than $12 per pie. For many years, I use to host a pizza party at home for about 12-14 friends. Friends were asked to bring any toppings they wanted, the more unusual the better. Everyone would get dough to make their own pizza with some basic ingredients that I had already prepared. Having this party, it was always surprising by how much the individual ingredients totaled up especially getting the best quality.

Can Orso survive in that location in these economic times? Again the original poster asked the question to query their view of 'higher' prices. Personally, I agree with a lot of others in this thread have said about Orso's prices are within the variance of other similar quality pizza restaurants. I think it's got the potential to be one of the best places on the East Coast. Regardless, right now, Orso is a destination restaurant, people are willing to drive there within the DC Metro area and because of that it should do well.

[mdt]

As for the cost per pizza, Pizzeria Orso is using high quality ingredients which if used at home which would cost more than $12 per pie.

Really? Take for example the Diavola that sells for $12. It has tomato, pepperoni, mozzarella. That is really going to cost you more than $12 to make at home? The cost of excellent flour is certainly under $0.25 per pizza and probably much less. That leaves $11.75 for the rest of the ingredients.

Does this mean that Orso is charging too much, no. Just trying to understand how making pizza at home is so damn expensive. There are many other factors that folks noted above that go into restaurant pricing.

[DonRocks]

Really? Take for example the Diavola that sells for $12. It has tomato, pepperoni, mozzarella. That is really going to cost you more than $12 to make at home? The cost of excellent flour is certainly under $0.25 per pizza and probably much less. That leaves $11.75 for the rest of the ingredients.

Does this mean that Orso is charging too much, no. Just trying to understand how making pizza at home is so damn expensive. There are many other factors that folks noted above that go into restaurant pricing.

About a month ago, I made a pasta with meat sauce at home, and it cost me over $50 because I had to buy the pasta, meat, tomato sauce, basil, onion, garlic, parmesan, olive oil, bread, etc. The only thing I owned was salt. Then, I ate nothing but that damned pasta for two days!

(I guess I'm an outlier on this bell curve.)

[sandynva]

About a month ago, I made a pasta with meat sauce at home, and it cost me over $50 because I had to buy the pasta, meat, tomato sauce, basil, onion, garlic, parmesan, olive oil, bread, etc. The only thing I owned was salt. Then, I ate nothing but that damned pasta for two days!

(I guess I'm an outlier on this bell curve.)

It sounds to me like what everyone is saying is that the cost for the first homemade pie (or pasta serving) is quite high, because you have to buy flour, onions, etc. but of course each bag of flour, bunch of basil, bottle of oil, etc makes much more than one pie, so when you're making a number of pies or a lot of pasta at home, the per-serving cost is low, but for a one-off, it can be pretty high.

[Chef Tom]

It amazes me how restaurants get so scrutinized yet other services and products to not.

Do we question the value of a $150/$200/$400/hour attorney? $40/hour mechanic plus parts?

The public always fails to consider the time and labor required to provide the food that gets served.

$12 for a great pizza sounds like a value.

Pizza Man - I'll bring the family in soon.

[leleboo]

About a month ago, I made a pasta with meat sauce at home, and it cost me over $50 because I had to buy the pasta, meat, tomato sauce, basil, onion, garlic, parmesan, olive oil, bread, etc. The only thing I owned was salt. Then, I ate nothing but that damned pasta for two days!

(I guess I'm an outlier on this bell curve.)

It sounds to me like what everyone is saying is that the cost for the first homemade pie (or pasta serving) is quite high, because you have to buy flour, onions, etc. but of course each bag of flour, bunch of basil, bottle of oil, etc makes much more than one pie, so when you're making a number of pies or a lot of pasta at home, the per-serving cost is low, but for a one-off, it can be pretty high.

Which is a basic economies of scale argument, on some level. Of course, there are intangibles in each scenario, too -- dining out, getting take-out, and making your own. One person's great deal is another person's rip-off.

Someone mentioned Seventh Hill (I think TS was the first). They've actually lowered their prices since opening. Then again, they are predominantly take-out, so maybe that has an impact, too.

In the era of the $15-or-more hamburger, I'd venture to say all bets are off.

[Billy DeLion]

Do we question the value of a $150/$200/$400/hour attorney? $40/hour mechanic plus parts?

I do.

[DonRocks]

Do we question the value of a $150/$200/$400/hour attorney?

I certainly do, and if more people did, it would be a better world.

(But your point is well-taken.)

[pizza man]

DOP Tomato

caputo

DOP could find cheaper, check freshness

That's getting you started..

[ktmoomau]

It amazes me how restaurants get so scrutinized yet other services and products to not.

Do we question the value of a $150/$200/$400/hour attorney? $40/hour mechanic plus parts?

As an attorney I can tell you honestly that people really do scrutinize their service, normally every line of their bill, which with the cost is certainly understandable. Even the courts scrutinize our services and their respective values. Many attorneys are not retained or kept based on their hourly rates alone.

I think all service based industries are scrutinized, as they should be for their value. Some people value certain things that other people don't. As I am not a hungry teenager nor do I have the appetite of one, especially in this heat, I value better quality ingredients and care less about portion size. Eric values his time heavily as a factor in doing many things. Monavano values her ability to cook and bake. I think that is all appropriate which is why I say live and let live as I did above.

As a note, the building they are in is a very nice new building, I imagine the rent is higher than say the location of Lebanese Butcher.

I just lament that Saab does regular car service between 8-10 am because I have to get a service soon and would much rather let them service my car while I caught lunch or dinner at Orso. It would be sooo convenient.

[sandynva]

It amazes me how restaurants get so scrutinized yet other services and products to not.

Do we question the value of a $150/$200/$400/hour attorney? $40/hour mechanic plus parts?

The public always fails to consider the time and labor required to provide the food that gets served.

$12 for a great pizza sounds like a value.

Pizza Man - I'll bring the family in soon.

another attorney here, agreeing that the hourly rates get discussed, debated and dissected to an amazing degree. in my experience people do this with many products and service industries.

go to any garden center and look at the people examining annuals or herbs like basil--i bet half of them are weighing the cost of the plant vs the cost of starting from seed, and deciding if they feel the vendor is charging a fair price or not. Same thing for minor home repairs or things like painting a room.

[porcupine]

I just want to know where to find a mechanic at $40/hour.