I Have Reservations

[porcupine]

Did anyone catch the comment today in Sietsema's chat about confirming reservations? The short version: the restaurant called the customer and left a message, saying the reservation would be cancelled if he didn't return the call.

I've gotten that threat, too - and restaurateurs, take note, it is a threat - and find it completely obnoxious. I understand the problem of no-shows, and I sympathize, but that last step is too much.

Polite and professional:

Rest: "may I have a phone number to confirm?"

Day of Reservation:

Respectful: "we're calling to confirm your reservation" blah blah

Barely acceptable if done nicely: "and please call us back if you can, thank you"

Absolutely not acceptable: "or else we'll cancel your reservation"

The funny thing is, we're taking two dear friends out to dinner next week, and one of the places they want to try is the restaurant that allegedly did this to TS's chatter. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and call for reservations anyway, but by God if they pull that crap with me it's no more Ms. Nice Gal.

Okay, maybe I'm just being pissy. Anyone else want to turn this from a rant into a nice discussion?

[hmmboy]

Did anyone catch the comment today in Sietsema's chat about confirming reservations? The short version: the restaurant called the customer and left a message, saying the reservation would be cancelled if he didn't return the call.

I've gotten that threat, too - and restaurateurs, take note, it is a threat - and find it completely obnoxious. I understand the problem of no-shows, and I sympathize, but that last step is too much.

Polite and professional:

Rest: "may I have a phone number to confirm?"

Day of Reservation:

Respectful: "we're calling to confirm your reservation" blah blah

Barely acceptable if done nicely: "and please call us back if you can, thank you"

Absolutely not acceptable: "or else we'll cancel your reservation"

The funny thing is, we're taking two dear friends out to dinner next week, and one of the places they want to try is the restaurant that allegedly did this to TS's chatter. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and call for reservations anyway, but by God if they pull that crap with me it's no more Ms. Nice Gal.

Okay, maybe I'm just being pissy. Anyone else want to turn this from a rant into a nice discussion?

Let me give you a hypothetical. Party calls and makes reservation for 8 people a week away and gives phone#. Reservation is for a Saturday nite which becomes fully booked early in the week. No credit card is taken. The day before the resevation 2 calls are placed to confirm and there is no answer or answering machine. The day of reservation another call is placed - still nothing. Should the restaurant hold the table and risk the loss of $500 - 1000 in revenue? Different answer if there are 6, 4, or 2 people?

[DanielK]

...the restaurant called the customer and left a message, saying the reservation would be cancelled if he didn't return the call...

The only time this would be acceptable would be if:

1. The restaurant told you at the time of making the reservation that this was the policy, and
   
2. This call came not day of, but the day prior.
   

It's still a crappy thing, as opposed to calling to confirm without the threat of cancellation, but this makes it only annoying, rather than something to rant about.

In fact, when places call the day before (not under threat of cancellation) just to inquire, and ask something like "is this a special occasion", it actually gets me even more excited to dine there.

[bonaire]

Let me give you a hypothetical. Party calls and makes reservation for 8 people a week away and gives phone#. Reservation is for a Saturday nite which becomes fully booked early in the week. No credit card is taken. The day before the resevation 2 calls are placed to confirm and there is no answer or answering machine. The day of reservation another call is placed - still nothing. Should the restaurant hold the table and risk the loss of $500 - 1000 in revenue? Different answer if there are 6, 4, or 2 people?

I'd say that there's likely a difference depending on party size. Large ones should have to confirm -- that kind of lost revenue can be a big deal. As for parties of 2 or 4 or 5, I'm not thrilled when I have to make an extra call to confirm but it doesn't raise my hackles the way other things do (like, say, requiring a credit card).

This would be a non-issue if people were more respectful of the restaurants they visit. One can't just treat a restaurant reservation like it's a movie that you may or may not go to. It's a commitment that you are making, just like the commitment you make to attend a dinner party or other hosted event. Just because you may not know the proprietors doesn't mean you can treat the commitment you made to them any differently. Learn to call and cancel if you can't make it. Then, maybe, we wouldn't all have to suffer these confirmation calls to compensate for the idjits out there....Yes, idjits.

[monavano]

Let me give you a hypothetical. Party calls and makes reservation for 8 people a week away and gives phone#. Reservation is for a Saturday nite which becomes fully booked early in the week. No credit card is taken. The day before the resevation 2 calls are placed to confirm and there is no answer or answering machine. The day of reservation another call is placed - still nothing. Should the restaurant hold the table and risk the loss of $500 - 1000 in revenue? Different answer if there are 6, 4, or 2 people?

There's been many an enlightening conversation here and on TS chat about the reservation being a contract. OK. Let's assume it is a social one in the sense that there is a true obligation for the patron to meet his part of the bargain and show up in a timely fashion. However, does the patron know that he is expected to respond to a confirmation call 24-48 hours in advance? It didn't seem so in the case today. So you go out of town, or are out of touch or for whatever reason are not tied to your phone like an umbilical cord and you miss the call. The restaurant makes an erroneous assumption that you intend not to make it. You show up all shit, showered and shaved and are told your table is gone.

The restaurant owes the patron a big ol' apology and should take action to correct their mistake. That is just wrong.

If the restaurant's has a policy to call and clearly expect confirmation and this is communicated, then maybe they have a case in making this assumption and give the table to someone else.

But, I agree with Porcupine. The tone( and action) is inhospitable and adversarial.

[KeithA]

There's been many an enlightening conversation here and on TS chat about the reservation being a contract. OK. Let's assume it is a social one in the sense that there is a true obligation for the patron to meet his part of the bargain and show up in a timely fashion. However, does the patron know that he is expected to respond to a confirmation call 24-48 hours in advance? It didn't seem so in the case today. So you go out of town, or are out of touch or for whatever reason are not tied to your phone like an umbilical cord and you miss the call. The restaurant makes an erroneous assumption that you intend not to make it. You show up all shit, showered and shaved and are told your table is gone.

The restaurant owes the patron a big ol' apology and should take action to correct their mistake. That is just wrong.

If the restaurant's has a policy to call and clearly expect confirmation and this is communicated, then maybe they have a case in making this assumption and give the table to someone else.

But, I agree with Porcupine. The tone( and action) is inhospitable and adversarial.

I agree, just like any contract the terms should be known up front and not changed midstream. So if a restaurant wants to adopt this policy (which I think is ridiculous for anything but a large party), they should inform the person making the reservation when the initial reservation is made and not at some later time.

[laniloa]

Another scenario. Had to plan an important business dinner and made reservations several days before. Am scrambling at the office to wrap some things up to make sure I am on time for the reservation. Arrived at restaurant and told in front of the people that I'm trying to impress that they cancelled my reservation because I ignored their confirmation call and they are not able to seat us. I try to have a reasonable conversation but they offer no apologies, no attempt to resolve situation. I have to scramble to find a table for 5 for right now. When I arrive home I find message with the call or cancel message having been left earlier that day on my home machine. So unless I had gone home before dinner I had no chance of returning the call. Had they given any indication that this was their policy I could have given an alternate phone number. Or chosen to make reservations elsewhere. Needless to say, they lost my business. And the business of my dining companions.

[Hannah]

I was wondering about that one myself, as it's not one I've run across before - plenty of places call to confirm, but they'll either leave a perfectly polite message with no threats involved, or manage to speak to someone, in which case it isn't an issue. It's also always at least 24 hours in advance of the reservation, not same-day.

Alternately, I think "please call us back the day before to confirm your reservation, or we have the option to release the table," which seems to be standard practice in New York but I haven't run across so much here, is a more workable solution. The policy's stated up front, which means it's my responsibility to follow through on it. As long as I do, I get my table, they get their confirmation, everyone's happy, and it's clear whose fault it is if there's a screwup with the reservation - if I confirmed and there's a problem, it's their responsibility, if I didn't, then it's mine.

(Apropos of the restaurant mentioned in the chat, they did not call to confirm when I reserved through OpenTable a week or so ago, and it was far enough ahead of time that they could have done. Maybe the policy is different for phone bookings.)

[lackadaisi]

Let me give you a hypothetical. Party calls and makes reservation for 8 people a week away and gives phone#. Reservation is for a Saturday nite which becomes fully booked early in the week. No credit card is taken. The day before the resevation 2 calls are placed to confirm and there is no answer or answering machine. The day of reservation another call is placed - still nothing. Should the restaurant hold the table and risk the loss of $500 - 1000 in revenue? Different answer if there are 6, 4, or 2 people?

In my opinion, there is no justifiable reason for the restaurant to cancel the reservation at this point regardless of the number of people involved. If the restaurant feels that the risk is too high for a certain number of people, then it should require a credit card at the time it takes the reservation, not try to tether a reserving party to them to ensure their arrival.

I know that I often give my cell phone number out but do not always check it regularly (and, I don't feel that I should have to; I am easily reachable by email). If I ever made a reservation - especially for a large group - and the restaurant cancelled it simply because it could not reach me by phone, I would be absolutely livid. I understand that no-shows are a problem, but this is just not a good way to handle the issue.

[jasonc]

Did anyone catch the comment today in Sietsema's chat about confirming reservations?

Link?

[hmmboy]

In my opinion, there is no justifiable reason for the restaurant to cancel the reservation at this point regardless of the number of people involved. If the restaurant feels that the risk is too high for a certain number of people, then it should require a credit card at the time it takes the reservation, not try to tether a reserving party to them to ensure their arrival.

I know that I often give my cell phone number out but do not always check it regularly (and, I don't feel that I should have to; I am easily reachable by email). If I ever made a reservation - especially for a large group - and the restaurant cancelled it simply because it could not reach me by phone, I would be absolutely livid. I understand that no-shows are a problem, but this is just not a good way to handle the issue.

I happen to agree with you. So this hypothetical was real. We held the table, rejecting perhaps 10 other parties who called or walked in (it was a 9:30 reservation) and we got burned. Because of this, and my refusal to simply cancel an unconfirmed reservation, we are going to institute the dreaded credit card requirement for the future for all parties of 6 or more. It sucks but I'm not sure there are any other viable alternatives.

[chickenlover]

I happen to agree with you. So this hypothetical was real. We held the table, rejecting perhaps 10 other parties who called or walked in (it was a 9:30 reservation) and we got burned. Because of this, and my refusal to simply cancel an unconfirmed reservation, we are going to institute the dreaded credit card requirement for the future for all parties of 6 or more. It sucks but I'm not sure there are any other viable alternatives.

The restaurant could always require the diner to call them to confirm on the day of the reservation. As long as the restaurant is clear about their policy when the reservation is made, I don't see a problem.

[squidsdc]

The restaurant could always require the diner to call them to confirm on the day of the reservation. As long as the restaurant is clear about their policy when the reservation is made, I don't see a problem.

I agree...

I must be the only person out here that thinks the onus is on me to confirm an appointment. In my business, if I make an appointment, I always call the day before to confirm and see if we are still on schedule. It is in my best interest. Likewise, if I am planning an event with family, work, etc, I call the restaurant to confirm. This is also in my best interest, and the restaurant's. I have spoken with restaurants that ask for my phone number, and I ask for what purpose...I don't normally give out my home number as it seems I am rarely there. If they respond it is because we call to confirm the day before, I'll tell them to call on my cell. If it is a weekday, I'll tell them to call at work. If I think I'll be unreachable, I've let them know at the time and asked if there may be a better or another way to confirm.

That being said, I do think it necessary that the restaurant inform the diner at the time of the reservation about the confirmation policy. By doing so, it can open up a whole conversation of "what if I'm not reachable?'" If that is not done, the reservation should not be canceled.

[lackadaisi]

The restaurant could always require the diner to call them to confirm on the day of the reservation. As long as the restaurant is clear about their policy when the reservation is made, I don't see a problem.

Or, how about giving an option between the two? The more I can do in one step, the better. Anything left for later could possibly fall through the cracks; I would much rather just guarantee arrival in some way.

[porcupine]

As far as I'm concerned, DanielK and everyone else hit the nail on the head. It's all about communication and respect. If I were told upfront about such a policy I'd be peeved but I'd keep my mouth shut and be willing to play the game.

Mr. Kuller, I'm sorry to read about what happened at your place. No matter what policy you adopt, you're going to get screwed someday, because people suck.

But I'd like to believe that if you politely tell people about your policy when they make the reservation, then you can minimize your losses without offending anyone. Except for the people who seem to live to complain. Can't do anything with them.

I'd also like to believe that bacon has zero calories and is heart-healthy when chased with a good Manhattan.

[Waitman]

The credit card thing is the far more odious option, IMHO. The implied -- sometimes stated -- threat is that if you fail to show or even cancel after a certain deadline you'll be dinged a pretty chunk of change for absolutely nothing. Asking for a comfirmation call or, as most places do, calling for a confirmation assumes a certain respect fro the diner: "we know you're busy, I hope this hasn't slipped your mind but we just wanted to confirm." Getting a credit card number assumes that the diner is craven jerk who can't be trusted unless there's money on the line.

As for having your reservation cancelled because you didn't confirm: I don't have much sympathy. I've assumed that it was SOP to confirm at any crowded high-end place for many years. And a confirm-or-lose poicy isn't just punitive to customers or beneficial for the restaurant. For every deuce, six or eight-top that gets bounced, there are two, six or eight people who get a chace at a (one assumes) charming evening out.

[deangold]

This is a favorite topic of mine.

All of the following have happened to us (and many of these examples happen repeatedly) at Dino:

A party of 18 (with a credit card) shows up with 4 people.

A party of 4 called at 8pm to cancel an 8pm reservation for a Saturday night. I had turned away a walk in 4 top at 7:30 and did not get another walk in until it was too late to refill that table.

A party of 10 called at 3:30pm on Easter Sunday to cancel a 2:30 reservation which I could have easily filled as late as about 1:30pm that day.

Last weekend 4 parties no showed after confirming yes.

ETA: people make a reservation for the same night on open table thnshow up the following Saturday night saying I made the reservation thru open table, you must have it! I did, on the night where it was marked a no show. Now I am an hour in the weeds if I take my only 4 top which is needed for a reservation in 5 minutes and give it to you.

I do not give these examples to make fun of folk, just to give folk reading this a flavor of hwat a restaurant goes thru with reservations.

Can't we just follow thru with out word? If I stiff you, that is I don't have your table within 15 minutes of your time (assuming you showed up complete and within 15 minutes of your reservation time) I will go a long ways to make it up to you: free prosecco, free food, tears of apology, I'll come over and wash your car, seppuku, whatever. But please show up or call us an hour or two before the time and let us know. OK?

[Pat]

If I have a reservation at a certain caliber of restaurant, I expect them to call me the day prior or the day of the reservation to confirm. If I have not heard from them by the afternoon of the reservation, I call them to confirm. Determining which restaurants for which this is necessary can be tricky and I've encountered people who seem puzzled as to why I'm calling to confirm, but overall it keeps confusion to a minimum. I have not yet hit a restaurant where I should follow this procedure and did not, but that day could be coming

I find the threat of cancelling a reservation if one does not return a call rather off-putting, while I can see the reason for the general policy. If one knows what the policy is, it's certainly much easier all around to keep things running smoothly. Yes, communication. I had no problem with the old RTS policy of calling them the day of to confirm the reservation. I knew that's how it was set up, so that's what I did.

[Pool Boy]

I can only imagine what it must be like to own or run a restaurant these days (with respect to this topic). People are rude, obnoxious and ignorant. People make reservations and never show up. People do all of the things some folks have already said and more. It must drive you all crazy!

But I really, really, really prefer to dine at establishments that take or require reservations. It means that I am not a walk in waiting with the cattle in the front of the restaurant waiting for a table. But, most of the time, those kinds of restaurants are places like your average to mediocre to outright lousy suburban chain restaurant, and I rarely if ever dines at those places. So if I make a reservation someplace, I either honor that reservation, or reschedule it, or cancel it well in advance of when the date is. If I am running more than 5 minutes late, you can bet real money that I am calling them while cruising for a parking spot. It is the right thing, the courteous thing, the civil thing to do.

That said, I just hate having to get the confirmation call or threat. I find it annoying and kind of insulting. I know, I know, you restaurant folks have to do it because of the stupidity of some (most?) of the people out there amazes us all and how rude they can be. Explain it all you want like that, but I still don't like having to put up with it.

[dinwiddie]

I recently made a reservation for six people (I had family arriving in town) at a local restaurant for 7pm on a Friday night using OpenTable. OpenTable has my work telephone number since I am there during the day. When I got to the restaurant, there was no problem, our table was ready and everything went very well.

Monday when I got to work there was a message on my voicemail asking me to call to confirm my reservation. The time stamp said that it was received at 4:30pm, unfortunately half an hour after I had gone home for the day. The message was polite, it just asked me to call and confirm if possible. But there were not threats to cancel the reservation, or even a hint that it was a possibility.

I think that restaurants are smart to try to get confirmations for larger parties, but I also think that the person who called realized that they were talking to a machine at work at 4:30pm on a Friday afternoon and was reasonable enough to realize that there was a good possibility that the message would not be received until Monday. In such a situation, I would hope that the restaurant realizes that the person is more likely than not to show up, and cancelling the reservation could lead to embarrassment for both sides. If you are going to have a policy that confirmations are necessary or the reservation will be cancelled, then you had better make sure that you clearly and politely make sure that the person makeing the reservation is aware of the policy and has acknowledged it.

[Waitman]

I'm surprised that people don't leave their cell phone numbers for confirmation calls. I know that there are some luddites, like my wife, who don't carry them, but they seem the logical choice for avoiding missed messages.

And weighing in on the "threat" thing: politeness is always important, but I don't see anything wrong with gently making it clear that a confirmation is not optional, and that the table will be lost if the confirmation isn't made. Because, of course, if they don't make it clear, someone will show up whining "I didn't know I was gonna lose my table...."

[deangold]

BY the way, I totally agree with those who don't like the threat. If you have to confirm your reseravtion or lose that should be made clear at the time of the reservation. I remember havig dinner in NYC at Blue Ribbon for a group of 12. They asked that I call to confirm the day before or else they could not hold my reseravtion.

We are taking credit cards for our special menus and we make clear the cancellation policy for each event. And even then, we evaluate each situation on a case by case basis. I have always maintained that the issue again is not what the restaurant needs to do to leagally enforce the contract, but lamenting the fact that no showing has become so frequent.

So if you are at a restaurant on a Saturday night and have a 45 minute wait, and if the restaurant treats you nice, remember that this may have been that rare night where NO ONE no showed!

[jiveturk21]

The problem with this discussion...all of the bad customers and all of the restaurants that have rigid/strange/crazy reservation policies are NOT reading this. My guess is that everyone that has contributed to or read this thread is very courteous, great customers and great restauranteurs alike. It is sad that we have to suffer, in many different ways, because of the small percentage of people that just can't get their shit together.

[Stretch]

This is going off on a tangent but since OpenTable has already been mentioned -- I am surprised how often I do show up for a reservation, dine as scheduled and a few days later receive an email informing me that I was a no show. How hard is it to check the box on the OT front end?

[qwertyy]

I made a 6:15 reservation at a DC, high-end place a couple of months ago. When they asked if we were having a special occasion, I said that I live abroad and was taking my two dear friends out for their wedding gift since I was going to have to miss their ceremony.

I arrived early--at 6:00--because I misjudged how long the walk would take--and I did want to get there a bit early to give the server my credit card to prevent a fight over the bill at the end of the meal. I was seated immediately, and then there I sat there, with a glass of water, and the drinks list, for 15 minutes until my party arrived. No offer for a cocktail, no server approach, essentially ignored. (And I really wanted a cocktail, but couldn't even make eye contact.)

Now, I understand that this place is small, and the service is choreographed to the minute. The place also did not have a bar that I could have--and would have been happy to have--waited at. So at the end of our perfect dinner, with extraordinary food and otherwise perfect service, I left with a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. Why did they ignore me?

I don't think you should put a price on hospitality, but after signing off on a $500 meal, I felt this was a glaring imperfection.

So. Is the reservation time sacred? Is it policy that I'm not a guest until my "contract" begins? I personally would expect to wait for a table for up to 15 minutes within the time of my reservation, but does it go the other way?

(I've hesitated to post on this in the restaurant's thread because it was a month before I was back home and would have had time to post, and as I said, the evening was otherwise extraordinary and I didn't want to put a black mark on the place. Maybe an anomoly?)

[smokey]

The problem with this discussion...all of the bad customers and all of the restaurants that have rigid/strange/crazy reservation policies are NOT reading this. My guess is that everyone that has contributed to or read this thread is very courteous, great customers and great restauranteurs alike. It is sad that we have to suffer, in many different ways, because of the small percentage of people that just can't get their shit together.

Well said, jiveturk21.

[Nadya]

Well, I've never experienced a "call to confirm or we'll cancel" policy, but it's pretty standard procedure to call large parties to confirm. And like everything else in the restaurant biz, it's a matter of gray, not black and white. Suppose a large party did not confirm, or is unreachable. The restaurant would still hold the table, but with a discernibly lesser degree of zeal than for a party that took pains to confirm. This is rarely an issue for parties under 4 people on a non-special day.

Sample conversation:

Walk-in party: "Can you accommodate six people?"

Hostess: "Not right now...but I do have an unconfirmed reservation, and if they don't show up in fifteen minutes, I will be happy to seat you."

This also assumes the original reservation party does not respond to phone calls.

[sacrilicious]

Asking for a credit card number to hold a reservation doesn't bother me. I might be a little surprised if the cc # were requested for a smaller party (say 2-4), but not at all for anything larger. After reading the appalling stories in this thread, if a restaurant's management has reasonably concluded that it takes the threat of being charged money to keep someone from being a doink, then I don't blame them.

Maybe my expectations have been beaten down by the many other places that explicitly threaten to charge me for not showing up (doctor's offices, my dog's kennel, etc.).

[starfish]

Maybe my expectations have been beaten down by the many other places that explicitly threaten to charge me for not showing up (doctor's offices, my dog's kennel, etc.).

And this is the part of this conversation that sticks in my craw. No one questions the right/justification for a Dr.'s office, Hair Salon, Dog Kennels, etc. to protect themeselves against the loss of revenue for a late cancelation or no-show. Yet many people - not speaking neccesarily about those that have commented in this thread - are outraged when a restaurant seeks to do the same.

I can appreciate the natural counter to this argument, that a restaurant is in the hospitality business and should be accomodating to guests. However, when the social contract has so little value for so many people shouldn't a restaurant's obligation to employees and investors to make a profit require polite implementation of consequences for the guest that violates the social contract?

Having said all of that, when I open my restaurant we will never ask guests for a credit card or cancel a reservation that cannot be confirmed.

[Pool Boy]

And this is the part of this conversation that sticks in my craw. No one questions the right/justification for a Dr.'s office, Hair Salon, Dog Kennels, etc. to protect themeselves against the loss of revenue for a late cancelation or no-show. Yet many people - not speaking neccesarily about those that have commented in this thread - are outraged when a restaurant seeks to do the same.

I can appreciate the natural counter to this argument, that a restaurant is in the hospitality business and should be accomodating to guests. However, when the social contract has so little value for so many people shouldn't a restaurant's obligation to employees and investors to make a profit require polite implementation of consequences for the guest that violates the social contract?

Having said all of that, when I open my restaurant we will never ask guests for a credit card or cancel a reservation that cannot be confirmed.

I have to admit, the ONLY type of establishment that has actually verbalized the 'threat' to me for being late or a no show is a restaurant. Honestly and truly!

[deangold]

I have to admit, the ONLY type of establishment that has actually verbalized the 'threat' to me for being late or a no show is a restaurant. Honestly and truly!

I have only been charged by my Chiropractor for missing an appointment.

[dcs]

The credit card thing is the far more odious option, IMHO. The implied -- sometimes stated -- threat is that if you fail to show or even cancel after a certain deadline you'll be dinged a pretty chunk of change for absolutely nothing.

Makoto reservations for a party of 2 requires a credit card. Nothing implied here; failure to cancel within 24 hours will cost $70 per person, as I was informed after inquiring about the cancellation policy after being asked for my card number. At those prices I will be a no-show, no way, no how.

Then again, I wouldn't no-show on a reservation even if they did not have my card number and I had used an alias.