Calling Out Individuals By Name

[brettashley01]

My never again is now drinks in the bar area at Proof on a weekend night.

The bartenders are awesome, and I wish we had been able to order our first round from there before [] our server, came over and attempted(?) to take our order. We were four people. She took two of our orders (for the same glass of wine), then walked away, then came back, took one more, left, came back, took the last, then left.

Then came back and asked for the first two. We also ordered a dessert that never arrived. And when I asked to cancel it, because it had been 20 minutes, [our server] told me that she had just put the order in, did I still want to wait?

Then, after 2 of our party left (my parents) once they had settled their bill, my friend and I sat in the chairs that my parents had been sitting in. At which point [our server] came over and brought us more menus, and then walked away.

It was just bizarre, and frustrating. Ended up ordering the next round at the bar. The bartenders, as others have pointed out, are great. Cocktail service, not so much.

Edited February 25, 2008 by DonRocks

[Poivrot Farci]

our server...

Is it proper to defame a server by name? And would it really bother customers to say hello and thank you when ordering drinks at the bar or are those social graces only found in Holland?

[DonRocks]

Is it proper to defame a server by name?

[Not in this instance.]

[vsky]

My never again is now drinks in the bar area at Proof on a weekend night.

The bartenders are awesome, and I wish we had been able to order our first round from there before [] our server, came over and attempted(?) to take our order. We were four people. She took two of our orders (for the same glass of wine), then walked away, then came back, took one more, left, came back, took the last, then left.

Then came back and asked for the first two. We also ordered a dessert that never arrived. And when I asked to cancel it, because it had been 20 minutes, [our server] told me that she had just put the order in, did I still want to wait?

Then, after 2 of our party left (my parents) once they had settled their bill, my friend and I sat in the chairs that my parents had been sitting in. At which point [our server] came over and brought us more menus, and then walked away.

It was just bizarre, and frustrating. Ended up ordering the next round at the bar. The bartenders, as others have pointed out, are great. Cocktail service, not so much.

Is it proper to defame a server by name? And would it really bother customers to say hello and thank you when ordering drinks at the bar or are those social graces only found in Holland?

don't think that pointing out a server's name for service errors or other negative comments is ever appropriate, heck my name might have made the board a few times...

However, in regards to service in the cocktail area at Proof, I heard almost an identical story from girlfriends (2 weeks ago?) who received appalling service. And frankly it wasn't about all the mistakes, but the snotty/dismissive attitude; any server knows keeping a pleasant attitude is often your only saving grace when you are slammed. To be fair my only first-hand experience at Proof was late night, last fall, at the bar and we had a good time. Perhaps it is just during the busy hours that cocktail service is lacking? I would love to return, but am very hesitant now...

[brettashley01]

However, in regards to service in the cocktail area at Proof, I heard almost an identical story from girlfriends (2 weeks ago?) who received appalling service. And frankly it wasn't about all the mistakes, but the snotty/dismissive attitude; any server knows keeping a pleasant attitude is often your only saving grace when you are slammed.

That was exactly what irked me- it's ok to mess up an order, but I didn't ask for a side of attitude with my champagne...

[Waitman]

Though I agree with Auden that "judging a work of art is virtually the same mental operation as judging human beings and requires the same aptitudes: first a real love...an inclination to praise rather than blame and regret when complete rejection is required..." and with Don that a biase towards praise -- or at least bemused tolerance -- is approproiate for a forum such as this, it seems only fair that if people can be prasied by name, they can at least be criticized with enough information to allow others to be way of the individual in question (the server with the green hair, the surpicilious twit with the goatee who works the down bar, etc).

[DanCole42]

Though I agree with Auden that "judging a work of art is virtually the same mental operation as judging human beings and requires the same aptitudes: first a real love...an inclination to praise rather than blame and regret when complete rejection is required..." and with Don that a biase towards praise -- or at least bemused tolerance -- is approproiate for a forum such as this, it seems only fair that if people can be prasied by name, they can at least be criticized with enough information to allow others to be way of the individual in question (the server with the green hair, the surpicilious twit with the goatee who works the down bar, etc).

Ordinarily I'm all for "free speech" - this is an Internet forum, after all. However, keep in mind... one bad restaurant review probably isn't going to put it out of business. One bad review of an individual, though, might very well put him/her out on the street.

[brettashley01]

One bad review of an individual, though, might very well put him/her out on the street.

True, but probably only if they did something egregious, in which case the management should be notified to begin with... and not through an internet message board.

[edenman]

True, but probably only if they did something egregious, in which case the management should be notified to begin with... and not through an internet message board.

You're assuming that managers respond to incidents appropriately. I could easily see a manager overreacting to some negative chatter generated by an individual's less-than-egregious-but-not-great performance. Hypothetically, of course.

[youngfood]

You're assuming that managers respond to incidents appropriately. I could easily see a manager overreacting to some negative chatter generated by an individual's less-than-egregious-but-not-great performance. Hypothetically, of course.

These are fair concerns and I don't think I would choose to post something negative including a staff member's name in anything other than really egregious circumstances, but if management is so unreasonable that they would fire someone over one complaint, doesn't that imply that we should hesitate to complain at all - whether in person to the manager in question or online?

[Waitman]

You're assuming that managers respond to incidents appropriately. I could easily see a manager overreacting to some negative chatter generated by an individual's less-than-egregious-but-not-great performance. Hypothetically, of course.

Or mangers could react inappropriately by ignoring egregious behavior. It's hard to make policy based on "what ifs."

And even if you don't mention a name, it's not that hard for a manager to go back and get a good idea who you're talking about. If I'd taken a swipe at my server the other night at the Oval Room -- which I didn't, because the whole team was wonderful -- they could surely have figured out the waiter based on my description of the wines we ordered. So, does that mean if the service had sucked, I shouldn't have mentioned it, because someone could be out on the street?

Part of the point of an site like this is to offer honest impressions, right?

[synaesthesia]

These are fair concerns and I don't think I would choose to post something negative including a staff member's name in anything other than really egregious circumstances, but if management is so unreasonable that they would fire someone over one complaint, doesn't that imply that we should hesitate to complain at all - whether in person to the manager in question or online?

Publicly versus privately are two very separate things. Placing it in a public forum forces them to be more harsh.

This is not a question of hesitating to complain, but rather forcing someone's hand. Let's face it, this is a more permanent record than verbally discussing it. Rather than giving the information to a small handful, it is suddenly accessible to not just the 2,000 members of DR.com, but to whoever else happens to stumble upon the forum.

As for the hypotheticals, I've heard rumors that the overreactions are very much the case.

[starfish]

These are fair concerns and I don't think I would choose to post something negative including a staff member's name in anything other than really egregious circumstances, but if management is so unreasonable that they would fire someone over one complaint, doesn't that imply that we should hesitate to complain at all - whether in person to the manager in question or online?

Your's is an interesting point. However, one could certainly make the argument that a private complaint has far less impact on the restaurant than a public complaint in this or any other internet forum. While I personally would consider it irresponsible to discipline an employee based on one unverifiable internet complaint, I have known too many restaurant managers who have dismissed people for lesser offenses.

As a recovering restaurant manager, I think it reckless to name names in all but the most egregious of cirumstances.

[youngfood]

Publicly versus privately are two very separate things. Placing it in a public forum forces them to be more harsh.

Why's that? It doesn't seem very rational to me. I can see restaurateurs being upset when they are criticized in public forums and where a permanent mark is left, and I can see why airing one's concerns privately is a more appropriate move, but I can't understand why a rational manager would treat an online rant of someone they've never met any differently than a reasonable complaint in person. If anything, I'd think the rational manager would be more inclined to take the in person complaint more seriously.

[synaesthesia]

Why's that? It doesn't seem very rational to me. I can see restaurateurs being upset when they are criticized in public forums and where a permanent mark is left, and I can see why airing one's concerns privately is a more appropriate move, but I can't understand why a rational manager would treat an online rant of someone they've never met any differently than a reasonable complaint in person. If anything, I'd think the rational manager would be more inclined to take the in person complaint more seriously.

Ahhh... rationality. See... that assumes that people are rational. I think the field of economics has proven that people are far from it. Added attention causes a reaction. Maybe someone tells you on the side you're doing something incorrectly, and so you might change it or maybe make minute adjustments. But if someone calls you out on the carpet during a meeting, you sure as hell are going to make sure you change instantly and demonstrate the difference for everyone to see.

[Josh Radigan]

read the book 'Setting the table' by Danny Meyer. In it he talks about an article that was written for a magazine, National distribution, where in it they describe a situation where one of his hosts received a bribe to get a better table. The article did not mention name or description of the host anywhere, but needless to say it was quite embarassing. Danny took the liberty of trying to find out who it was, but to no avail. Instead of continuing the search of the 'bribed host'he made the epxerience a learning lesson for all doorstaff.

This is where good managers and owners thrive and excel, taking a situation, good or bad, and making something positive in the outcome. With Proof I neither know the server in question, nor how the managers operate, but I can tell you that Mark, whom I have had the pleasure of meeting at Tallula, seems to be the type of person who will do the same. rationale thinking, read the tone of the comments, and proceed forward with a positive solution.

At Tallula we had similar situations where DR's made comments about the staff and their attitude and I took many personally since I or my colleagues hired them to be a employees. In the end we took comments as learning tools.

[ulysses]

Go to the manager and let them know that you had a problem. Thats the way this should be handled, end of story.

Imagine if your name flickered across any forum in that way, you'd be mortified. It's not right at all. SERVICE was bad, here are the reasons SERVICE was bad, my SERVER didn't do this. Not specific names.

We've talked about this before and it pisses me off that we're talking about it again. Why on earth do people do this?

[Tweaked]

Given that this is a public message board designed for like minded individuals to chat and discuss food and the DC restaurant scene and given that few of us are actually restaurant professionals or make a career in the Biz...does anyone really think it is appropriate to start naming names?

Given BrettAshley's experience giving a general discription of the problem is fine, discussing crappy service at a restaurant seems to be fair game...if she really has a problem with the server then it would be most appropriate to speak with the restaurant manager directly.

[Waitman]

The broad diffusion of knowledge and information is good. That is one of the brilliant things about the internet, though most thinking people bring a bit of skepticism to the medium. If it is appropriate to mention people positively by name then there are certainly times when it is appropriate to mention people (and restaurants, etc.) negatively, with enough specificity to let others know what to look out for -- the day bartender, the sommelier, the server with the green hair -- otherwise the Internet becomes not a tool for information but just a little fan site for whatever establishments are in favor that month. Yes, great restraint and good moderation are important, as the consequences of a negative post could be far greater than those of a positive post. And maybe Don's suggestion that negative posters' names real names be used is appropriate. Nonetheless, I think this type of board is only really valuable when the bad is reported as well as the good.

And with all due respect to management, the last thing I want to do after a crappy dining experience is drag my guests around, (or have them cool their heels) while I hunt through a busy restaurant to find a manager with a million other things to do so I can get into a "he-said-(s)he-said" about the service. Once you're in a hole, stop digging.

I don't think this should be a forum for settling scores (or sucking up), but an accurate report of a dining experience is always appropriate -- positive or negative.

[ulysses]

And with all due respect to management, the last thing I want to do after a crappy dining experience is drag my guests around, (or have them cool their heels) while I hunt through a busy restaurant to find a manager with a million other things to do so I can get into a "he-said-(s)he-said" about the service. Once you're in a hole, stop digging.

I don't think this should be a forum for settling scores (or sucking up), but an accurate report of a dining experience is always appropriate -- positive or negative.

Two things:

1.Managers should never be that hard to track down. If they are then by all means post about it. If it wasn't such a big deal that someone couldn't take five minutes then(particularly in Proof which is not that big and generally completely staffed with managers and an owner), how could they take 20 minutes later to post about it?

2. You're absolutely right. No sucking up or settling scores....but what if all of the DR.com registered restaurant employees suddenly started posting their DR.com horror stories. It's all part of the dining experience right? "Thursday night Fred2000 came in and tipped 5%","last night wienereater75 was at the bar making out with someone. I don't think it was his wife.". Where does that fit in the dining experience?

Ultimately the issue isn't about board/internet aesthetic, whether or not to post about negative experiences. It's about somebody being too passive aggresive to deal with their problems like an adult and let a manager know about the problem.

[Chris Cunningham]

Two things:

1.Managers should never be that hard to track down. If they are then by all means post about it. If it wasn't such a big deal that someone couldn't take five minutes then(particularly in Proof which is not that big and generally completely staffed with managers and an owner), how could they take 20 minutes later to post about it?

2. You're absolutely right. No sucking up or settling scores....but what if all of the DR.com registered restaurant employees suddenly started posting their DR.com horror stories. It's all part of the dining experience right? "Thursday night Fred2000 came in and tipped 5%","last night wienereater75 was at the bar making out with someone. I don't think it was his wife.". Where does that fit in the dining experience?

Ultimately the issue isn't about board/internet aesthetic, whether or not to post about negative experiences. It's about somebody being too passive aggresive to deal with their problems like an adult and let a manager know about the problem.

I can see it now---" Slushy2000 drank 6 glasses of wine and then tipped only $5..then got in his car and drove off...by the way- why does slushy2000 always wear the same sweater...spends all his money on booze...definately not clothing and tips

I agree that a general description of the incident is sufficient...names, unless its a compliment do not need to be mentioned. At least I know if I want a WATERY DRINK at Central-I know who to go to

[Al Dente]

....but what if all of the DR.com registered restaurant employees suddenly started posting their DR.com horror stories. It's all part of the dining experience right? "Thursday night Fred2000 came in and tipped 5%","last night wienereater75 was at the bar making out with someone. I don't think it was his wife.".

Oh man, that would be awesome! Especially since I no longer drink and make an ass out of myself when out on the town (I'm assuming I'd be "grandfathered" out of the thread).

Bring on the embarrassment and humiliation!

[Waitman]

Two things:

1.Managers should never be that hard to track down. If they are then by all means post about it. If it wasn't such a big deal that someone couldn't take five minutes then(particularly in Proof which is not that big and generally completely staffed with managers and an owner), how could they take 20 minutes later to post about it?

2. You're absolutely right. No sucking up or settling scores....but what if all of the DR.com registered restaurant employees suddenly started posting their DR.com horror stories. It's all part of the dining experience right? "Thursday night Fred2000 came in and tipped 5%","last night wienereater75 was at the bar making out with someone. I don't think it was his wife.". Where does that fit in the dining experience?

Ultimately the issue isn't about board/internet aesthetic, whether or not to post about negative experiences. It's about somebody being too passive aggresive to deal with their problems like an adult and let a manager know about the problem.

1) 20 minutes when you're more sober and have had time to collect your thoughts can be much easier to find than 5 minutes when you're a little pissed and your date/boss/best friend is whispering "let's just get out of here," through clenched teeth.

2) I'd log in for that. So would my wife, who really should trust me more. But, seriously, if someone made a negative post regarding a restaurants' service and the restaurant was able to truthfully point out that the guest was abusive and possibly drunk, I'd be down with that.

And finally, I admit that there's a fine line between passive-agressive avoidance and posting an accurate but negative review. In fact, you could probably find both on the same post. But, if Restaurant Z has a habit of incompetent service and watered-down gin, it's useful for that fact to be here on line, where I can find out, whether or not it would have been more manly (or womanly) for the complainers to track down a manager at the time. And, if it's not a habit, then the glowing reviews will gradually crowd out the the less stellar ones, and the people will have spoken and justice will be done.

Ah -- who am I kidding. I just do whatever Sietsema and his corporate overlords tell me.

[Ferhat Yalcin]

but what if all of the DR.com registered restaurant employees suddenly started posting their DR.com horror stories. It's all part of the dining experience right? "Thursday night Fred2000 came in and tipped 5%","last night wienereater75 was at the bar making out with someone. I don't think it was his wife.".

we should do that . I have a lot to say

[Dave Pressley]

1) 20 minutes when you're more sober and have had time to collect your thoughts can be much easier to find than 5 minutes when you're a little pissed and your date/boss/best friend is whispering "let's just get out of here," through clenched teeth.

2) I'd log in for that. So would my wife, who really should trust me more. But, seriously, if someone made a negative post regarding a restaurants' service and the restaurant was able to truthfully point out that the guest was abusive and possibly drunk, I'd be down with that.

And finally, I admit that there's a fine line between passive-agressive avoidance and posting an accurate but negative review. In fact, you could probably find both on the same post. But, if Restaurant Z has a habit of incompetent service and watered-down gin, it's useful for that fact to be here on line, where I can find out, whether or not it would have been more manly (or womanly) for the complainers to track down a manager at the time. And, if it's not a habit, then the glowing reviews will gradually crowd out the the less stellar ones, and the people will have spoken and justice will be done.

Ah -- who am I kidding. I just do whatever Sietsema and his corporate overlords tell me.

Great post. I agree completely with you, Waitman. I think cooling down after an unsatisfying experience anywhere is always a good idea...and not just in restaurants. I just wonder how more effective it would be if extremely dissatisfied customers would simply shoot an email to the management team at Restaurant X rather than ranting online.

If the goal is to try a cause a business harm, then I get it. They can post online and use tons of witty analogies. Enjoy typing them from the office in their glass house.

If the goal is to make a restaurant better, sending an email or letter can be effective tools. Of course, there are tons of restaurants out there that choose not to answer email complaints, but a bunch of us do. I'd rather be afforded the right to make changes based on customer feedback than to lose business because of a few nasty posts.

I wish there were more customers out there who when dissatisfied, wouldn't automatically assume that the restaurant is owned by an asshole and run by a dickhead manager that only hires snotty servers and stupid bartenders. We do make mistakes and most of us really want to make up for them and regain potentially lost business.

[brettashley01]

Hm. I regret my original post with the server's name, yes. But I will say this- it's not like I would go find a manager of Proof or any restaurant and tell them, "your bar is too crowded and your server is in the weeds and is not on her game." What would that do, for me, for the manager, for the server? My original gripe was about the attitude and the ambiance. I didn't like it. It was my opinion. And it bugged me so much that it stayed with me the next day, so I posted about it. Not worth flagging down a manager about at the time, in my opinion.

[hillvalley]

Hm. I regret my original post with the server's name, yes. But I will say this- it's not like I would go find a manager of Proof or any restaurant and tell them, "your bar is too crowded and your server is in the weeds and is not on her game." What would that do, for me, for the manager, for the server? My original gripe was about the attitude and the ambiance. I didn't like it. It was my opinion. And it bugged me so much that it stayed with me the next day, so I posted about it. Not worth flagging down a manager about at the time, in my opinion.

You can be part of the problem or part of the solution. Letting the manager know that one of their employees needs help because she is in the weeks puts you in the later category. Calling someone out, in a forum that will be around long after we are all gone, puts you in the former category. You choose.

If you are still so pissed a day later, call the restaurant and let them know. Hell, being a member here gives us the privilege of shooting The Owner a message to let him know. Can't think of a better solution than that if you don't want a face to face confrontation.

[Dave Pressley]

Hm. I regret my original post with the server's name, yes. But I will say this- it's not like I would go find a manager of Proof or any restaurant and tell them, "your bar is too crowded and your server is in the weeds and is not on her game."

Why not? A good manager would jump in and turn things around. I have been approached in this exact manner and appreciate being told during the bad service rather than after anyway.

What would that do, for me, for the manager, for the server?

It would get you better service, get the manager involved in a situation they may not be aware of and get the server to either apolgize and get their "A Game" going or switch you out to another server for a fresh start.

And it bugged me so much that it stayed with me the next day, so I posted about it. Not worth flagging down a manager about at the time, in my opinion.

But you posted under "Never Again Experiences". I think any manager would think that your future business is worth flagging them down.

Don't take my post the wrong way. I'm not picking on you. I just wish more complaints like yours first happened to the owner or manager rather than on blogs and chats, I guess.

[jparrott]

But you posted under "Never Again Experiences".

Exactly. It seems that the "Never Again" thread should be used for things far more egregious than a couple of awkward exchanges with a server.

[Ilaine]

The behavior you describe is more incompetent that hostile.

I would counsel charity. The person in question might have been terribly distracted by something beyond his/her control, such as a broken heart, a death in the family, an adjustable rate mortgage that's going to lock at 12%, who knows? Give this person the benefit of the doubt.

If the person is truly hostile or deliberately rude, that's another story.

I find people frequently find slights when none was intended. Not saying, I am just saying. As they say.

Also, the fact that your parents were present may have made you more sensitive to slights you perceived directed towards them, eliciting a desire to protect/take care of them that was frustrated, which exacerbated the situation.

[Dave Pressley]

Also, the fact that your parents were present may have made you more sensitive to slights you perceived directed towards them, eliciting a desire to protect/take care of them that was frustrated, which exacerbated the situation.

Click

[Ilaine]

Click

I hope in a good way. And if so, thank you.

[demandalicious]

Riddle me this: Do my fellow diners consider the possibility that 95% of the time, people get back what they put out, when it comes to attitude? If internet personalities are any indication, there are some people who should be less surprised that servers are "rude" to them.

[Ilaine]

Riddle me this: Do my fellow diners consider the possibility that 95% of the time, people get back what they put out, when it comes to attitude? If internet personalities are any indication, there are some people who should be less surprised that servers are "rude" to them.

Dunno about 95% but you make an excellent point.

Brett Ashley, on the other hand, does not strike me as someone who provokes rude service. I surmise that Brett Ashley is a "she", therefore tilted in the nurturing mode, and I assume she was mortified at the way her parents were treated, which is Not A Bad Thing. Not at all.

I further surmise that What We Have Here Is a Failure to Communicate.

[mdt]

[Edited: Too argumentative.]

Blaming the victim, dude.

Don't know what happened in the specific case that started this thread, but the diner is not always the innocent victim.

[brettashley01]

Wow, if I really thought me and my big mouth would have caused such an uproar, I wouldn't have posted at all. Perhaps I didn't take the "Never Again" title as seriously as it should be- and, as I stated in my original post, I would return to Proof, but next time, I will order at the bar when having drinks.

I was not being rude, that I knew of. As Ilaine pointed out, yes, I did feel personally slighted by the way my parents were treated. I live around the corner from Proof, and since my parents love wine bars, had talked it up and wanted to show them a fun time.

As for going to find the manager, it was a packed house, and I was With My Family. We had already had dinner and were going to just have a couple drinks. They don't come to see me that often so I wasn't going to waste that time on complaining. If, however, we had been at dinner, and would have continued to have such interactions with the server over a lengthy period of time, then I would have done so.

Keep in mind, I am among the first to appreciate and praise good and/or friendly service, particularly as a diner with food allergies. I apologize again for the way I handled the situation, by naming names. That said, take a look over at the Cork thread. You don't think the owners/managers know who's hosting on Sunday nights?

Fin.

[DanCole42]

Wow, if I really thought me and my big mouth would have caused such an uproar, I wouldn't have posted at all. Perhaps I didn't take the "Never Again" title as seriously as it should be- and, as I stated in my original post, I would return to Proof, but next time, I will order at the bar when having drinks.

It could be worse. You could have used one of your first posts on the board to trash one of the top restaurants in the world and personally insult someone who is, not only one of the nicest people on this board, but also the friendliest and most helpful restaurant employee I've ever had the privilege of getting buzzed off of.

But seriously, regardless of this one instance, let's try to stay away from absolutes. Not everyone will feel comfortable talking to a manager and not every manager will embrace customer feedback earnestly.

Cut Brett some slack

[synaesthesia]

It could be worse. You could have used one of your first posts on the board to trash one of the top restaurants in the world

Or say that you're a fan of Rachel Ray <giggle>

[demandalicious]

Don't know what happened in the specific case that started this thread, but the diner is not always the innocent victim.

Agreed. My post wasn't meant to "blame the victim" in this particular case.

I dine out often and can count on one hand the number of times that servers or bartenders have been rude enough to me to warrant a "calling out". It seems to happen regularly to some people so I am suggesting that perhaps the root of the problem lies with the behavior or attitude of the diner, rather than with the restaurant staff.

[Ilaine]

I was not being rude, that I knew of. As Ilaine pointed out, yes, I did feel personally slighted by the way my parents were treated. I live around the corner from Proof, and since my parents love wine bars, had talked it up and wanted to show them a fun time.

Sorry you had a bad time. You were there, and I was not, so I trust your perceptions. Just wanted to say that I used to be a waitress, when working my way through college. The pay sucked and I was always one paycheck from total disaster. So the thought of costing someone their job especially in this economy would just be too much for me.

Maybe I am just a pushover.

[Waitman]

Riddle me this: Do my fellow diners consider the possibility that 95% of the time, people get back what they put out, when it comes to attitude? If internet personalities are any indication, there are some people who should be less surprised that servers are "rude" to them.

At the end of our meal on the second visit, I shared with the owner an account of our experiences with the host (the thin, blond, whitewoman). She apologized for the treatment we had received and said thatshe had received similar complaints from others. It's disappointing tohear that things have not improved.

So, is the poster another member of the 95% club? Or providing valuable information for those consdidering an evening at Cork? I vote the latter.

[DameEdna]

Managers should never be that hard to track down. If they are then by all means post about it. If it wasn't such a big deal that someone couldn't take five minutes then(particularly in Proof which is not that big and generally completely staffed with managers and an owner), how could they take 20 minutes later to post about it?

Years ago, a good many, I was working as a waiter ... a customer wanted to speak to the manager ... I looked high and low for him ... finally saw him ... What was he doing coming out of a storage room with the "good looking guy" waiter, pulling up his pants? I was surprised that somehow out of this, I got to be the bad guy.

Encouraged to find employment elsewhere. Whether the customer got to talk to the manager, I don't know.