wlohmann Posted April 16, 2011 Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) After a brief hiatus, I hit the road again on Friday, this time to Filter, just off Connecticut on 20th St., NW. It's on a nice mostly-residential block and easy-to-miss if you aren't looking for it. Quite tiny--5 or 6 small tables along the wall, a cute patio in front with just a bench and one lonely chair (they've ordered more!). Good indie tunes playing not too TOO loud I had a pour-over and,since I sat and chatted with a friend for some time, was able to have an espresso before I left. Staff quite friendly, operation very efficient, quite a line had formed by 8:30. Food offerings very narrow in comparison to Big Bear, Mid-City etc No fruit or yogurt or granola etc., just breads. Both the pour over and the espresso were very nice-the pour overs come in two categories-mine was the lower and ran 2.50 for 12 oz. Espresso nicely prepared. A bit on the acidic end of scale for my taste but really just fine. Supplier is Cafe Pronto. All in all, definitely big giant step up from Sbux and Caribou quality-wise and free of attitude but a bit cramped and lacks the home-y atmosphere of a Big Bear, Sidamo or Sova. --- [The following posts have been split into separate threads: Coffee Nature (arcturus) Dolcezza (porcupine) Ebeneezer's Coffeehouse (saf) The Wydown Coffee Bar (TedE) Mug N' Muffin (twinsdaddy) Java Shack (daveo) South Block (RWBooneJr) Bump 'n' Grind (Kev29)] Edited January 16, 2015 by DonRocks
wlohmann Posted April 19, 2011 Author Posted April 19, 2011 The "coffee trail" came to an end this morning with a nice espresso and very welcoming friendly service at Dolcezza, one of three Argentine gelato shops in the area and the only one that features artisanal coffee. In fact, I was surprised, when I arrived, to see as much space dedicated to coffee service as there was. It's quite a small place on Connecticut Ave., just above R Street, and really only a (long) stone's throw from Filter. Just a few seats in the front window then a rather large communal table with a bunch of chairs around it. Staff indicated it gets quite crowded in the evenings (a mixed "gelato and coffee" crowd- -no liquor license here). Food offerings limited- -just pastries and breads. Probably a notch less formal/serious coffee-wise down from Chinatown but my espresso was prepared with care, accompanied by a glass of water and very rich and smooth. AND my streak of hearing really good indie-pop music playing as I chatted with staff and sipped my coffee continued, with a great song, Raised by Wolves, by a departed band called Voxtrot (but I digress)! I felt a bit nostalgic as I finished my chat with the staff and drifted out onto Connecticut Avenue........I've checked off my last box, sipped my last espresso...........but will be keeping my eyes open for newcomers and will duly report to my friends at DR! Walt
darkstar965 Posted April 19, 2011 Posted April 19, 2011 The "coffee trail" came to an end this morning with a nice espresso and very welcoming friendly service at Dolcezza, one of three Argentine gelato shops in the area and the only one that features artisanal coffee. I felt a bit nostalgic as I finished my chat with the staff and drifted out onto Connecticut Avenue........I've checked off my last box, sipped my last espresso...........but will be keeping my eyes open for newcomers and will duly report to my friends at DR! Pitango (Gelato from Baltimore at P & 15thNW, downtown and Reston Town Center) also serves a high-quality (if not "artisanal") espresso. Have you tried that? And, "sipped [your] last espresso"? Huh? How can that be? Say it ain't so
DaRiv18 Posted April 20, 2011 Posted April 20, 2011 Thank you Walt for a personalized and focused walk-thru of "the scene." I'm really fascinated by coffee and espresso, because it's almost purely a study in technique. From my limited understanding, it's as if all the action takes place in the blending and roasting stage, and afterwards it is only a question of how much can you mess it up. I feel espresso isn't presently customizable as opposed to cocktails (unless you walk down the mocha path), and there really isn't a wide selection of beans from which to select (though Chinatown usually offers two). I've even tried to apply my cocktail slant to the espresso stage, asking for a peel of orange or lemon to accompany my shot, but the most gracious response I've heard was along the lines of "to each their own." As with most bartenders who don't like to riff during down-time, most baristas I've encountered instead pull their best shots when they're in a rhythm, with a long line of consumers watching their every move. It's funny you mention Dolcezza, although I've never been. I've always suspected that espresso and coffee are more versatile than ordinarily recognized (or bastardized), and the new trend of expertly pulled espresso over craft gelato (the italian name escapes me) is pretty cool. At home, I'm experimenting with which liqueurs best compliment my shots. Chantal Tseng had a killer espresso cocktail last year, the Dulce y Salado. Your narrative seemed to suggest that coffeehouses vary mostly by furniture, music, and the employee attitudes, and while those are important components to an establishment, I have to believe that the product can eventually be just as a defining component. But there are lots of different blends and roasters and producers, and DC has a growing scene. Thanks wlohmann for your perspective, I feel we have some similar tastes and so I really was living vicariously!
darkstar965 Posted April 27, 2011 Posted April 27, 2011 Wow-wlohmann finishes his tour of all things DC coffee and this thread gets relegated to page two status under DC dining. Two new coffee house visits for me in the past week. The first was Sidamo, which I found has its own deserved thread (good!) so I posted a review there so ktmoomau's woudn't be too lonely. She started the thread a year ago and mine was just the 2nd. The other, which I can't imagine has its own thread (though in full disclosure I haven't checked) is a spot just around the corner from Pete's Apizza off Wisconsin in NW called "Coffee Nature." It's at 4224 Fesssenden St NW and just came under new ownership a year ago. The owners are Korean and also operate a place somewhere in Dupont that does Korean food (bulgogi, etc) but Coffee Nature has no obvious Korean items on its menu. Nice enough location with several tables indoors and out front. Anna, one of the owners, helped me and was super nice. To me, coffee nature isn't so much a "coffee house" like many of the other places we write about here as it is a more general value food/beverage spot. They offer a range of breakfast items, lunch sandwiches, wraps, ice cream, tea, coffee and other things I can't recall. The coffee is from Casey's Coffee. I had to look that up since I only knew that name of a similar brkfst/lunch spot in Foggy Bottom. Still not sure I have that right--would a place like that wholesale? Guess so. Coffee just okay at best though they do have a proper espresso machine. Neighborhood spot. Nice owners. Lots of okay options with low prices. Not in the same league as a Quartermaine, Filter, Peregrine, Chinatown Coffee, Sidamo, etc, etc but then again, it's not really trying to be that.
weinoo Posted May 6, 2011 Posted May 6, 2011 Just wanted to acknowledge that I ignored how intricate their craft is in my original comment, and how hard it is to deliver a consistent product with so many variables. Indeed. Just this past week or two (at home) I've been noticing that as I grind for espresso, the coffee has more weight to it for a given volume of the same (Stumptown Hair Bender) bean.
darkstar965 Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 Had an unusual coffee house experience last week I thought worth sharing. I was in Portland (OR) at one of the city's better (best?) coffee houses. Aside from the place truly having outstanding brew and people, three things will stay with me for quite a long time; things I don't believe we have here in DC: 1. It was one of the only times (maybe first) I've ever been asked what kind of coffee I wanted for my espresso. Evidently, they do espresso grinds to order just as the regular grinds they and many places do for drip or pour overs. I opted for a Guatemalan cap. Damn was it good. 2. The place was one of just two in the city using a vacuum/siphon system for regular brew. This runs between $6 and $9 but it was excellent--cleaner, purer taste than probably any other brewing method I've experienced. Here's a pic/explanation if you haven't heard of this before. SFO probably has one or two spots with this. Maybe we will by 2012. 3. The place, again a real candidate for PDX's best award, burned down the day after we were there. Noone hurt thankfully but WTH? For specifics on the place and another of equal, truly kickass, quality, see the Portland thread on the travel board....where hopefully noone else has already posted on this. For any coffee obsessives, you really have to go to Portland if only for the coffee...and the food but that's a better covered story. Quartermaine, Sidamo, Chinatown and Filter just weren't the same for me after getting back but I suppose the memories and longing will fade with time and I'll again be able to really appreciate what we have here.
darkstar965 Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 I'm really fascinated by coffee and espresso, because it's almost purely a study in technique. From my limited understanding, it's as if all the action takes place in the blending and roasting stage, and afterwards it is only a question of how much can you mess it up. I feel espresso isn't presently customizable as opposed to cocktails (unless you walk down the mocha path), and there really isn't a wide selection of beans from which to select (though Chinatown usually offers two). Was just re-reading some of the thread. I totally agreed with the above until this past week in Portland. Fully customizeable espresso. Of course west coast is first.
Kev29 Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 This is a kind of random request, but something crossed my mind the other day... Are there any good, independently run (or even small chain) coffee houses/shops in Montgomery County? If so, can someone recommend one in Bethesda/Kensington/Silver Spring/Rockville? Kind of amazing that I can't think of one in such a densely populated county. Thanks.
Choirgirl21 Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 This is a kind of random request, but something crossed my mind the other day... Are there any good, independently run (or even small chain) coffee houses/shops in Montgomery County? If so, can someone recommend one in Bethesda/Kensington/Silver Spring/Rockville? Kind of amazing that I can't think of one in such a densely populated county. Thanks. I was just about to ask myself, although about MD in general. I live in Laurel, in PG County, but work in northern Silver Spring, but I'd take anything across the MD state line. Bonus points for the coffee being dirty hippe environmentally friendly/shade grown/fair trade/organic/etc. etc. I've been in a bad coffee place since returning from Australia in April. At the time, I couldn't believe it every time I would fork over $5 for a flat white, but I would happily pay to have something similar now.
mame11 Posted July 13, 2011 Posted July 13, 2011 I've been in a bad coffee place since returning from Australia in April. At the time, I couldn't believe it every time I would fork over $5 for a flat white, but I would happily pay to have something similar now. You definitely should check out Filter in Dupont Circle. Apparently the Flat White they serve is the real deal and quite popular with Australian ex-pats.
spaztic1215 Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 This is a kind of random request, but something crossed my mind the other day... Are there any good, independently run (or even small chain) coffee houses/shops in Montgomery County? If so, can someone recommend one in Bethesda/Kensington/Silver Spring/Rockville? Kind of amazing that I can't think of one in such a densely populated county. Thanks. Dolcezza off Bethesda Lane next to Redwood, serves great espresso and pourover coffee. I think they use the Hairbender roast from Stumptown, and maybe a couple Counter Culture roasts as options too. We always stop there before a show at Landmark Bethesda Row. Website.
Choirgirl21 Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 You definitely should check out Filter in Dupont Circle. Apparently the Flat White they serve is the real deal and quite popular with Australian ex-pats. Awesome, thank you. Not often in Dupont these days, but sounds like a good excuse to head down there on a Saturday (or Sunday, I can't even remember anymore?) to visit the farmers market and get a flat white.
dcs Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Awesome, thank you. Not often in Dupont these days, but sounds like a good excuse to head down there on a Saturday (or Sunday, I can't even remember anymore?) to visit the farmers market and get a flat white. I was in Cassatt's yesterday and noticed they serve a Flat White. It will only set you back $3.50.
darkstar965 Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 This is a kind of random request, but something crossed my mind the other day... Are there any good, independently run (or even small chain) coffee houses/shops in Montgomery County? If so, can someone recommend one in Bethesda/Kensington/Silver Spring/Rockville? Kind of amazing that I can't think of one in such a densely populated county. Thanks. I agree with the Dolcezza recc though the Dupont location is even more coffee centric than in Bethesda. Likewise, Filter is the best in NW DC. Another in Bethesda which I like even better than Dolcezza Bethesda, uses quality beans and good technique is Quartermaine. They're right on Bethesda row just 5 or 6 storefronts down Bethesda Ave from the Barnes & Noble next to the bagel shop with benches outside.
Choirgirl21 Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 I was in Cassatt's yesterday and noticed they serve a Flat White. It will only set you back $3.50. That's at least a buck less than you'd pay in Australia, sweet!
ad.mich Posted February 11, 2012 Posted February 11, 2012 Congratulations are in order for the folks from Peregrine and the DC branch of the new MadCap - both crews have individuals who advanced to the finals of the SERBC/Brewers Cup competition in Atlanta this weekend.
DonRocks Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Congratulations are in order for the folks from Peregrine and the DC branch of the new MadCap - both crews have individuals who advanced to the finals of the SERBC/Brewers Cup competition in Atlanta this weekend. Lovin' it. To all the independent coffee houses in the area: Please remember when you're updating your websites, that donrockwell.com is your friend - we are to restaurant journalism what you are to coffee, and we need your support just as much as you need ours.
ad.mich Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 Lindsey Kiser of Peregrine wins, and Trevor Corlett of MadCap comes in second. Very cool stuff. Congratuations to the individuals, and to DC coffee in general for dominating down south.
JoshW0615 Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 I'm actually writing this from a brand new independent "pop up" coffee shop that just opened up a block from me. Sunday was their official opening, but they did a soft opening all last week and I've gone about 4 times already. The Blind Dog Cafe at Darnell's (no website, but they do have a Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/blinddogcafe) is by far my new favorite place to open in the neighborhood since I moved here a year ago. Blind Dog Cafe essentially takes over Darnell's Bar during the day (if you haven't been to Darnell's, I recommend it for the experience and Darnell himself, but the drinks are generally terrible). It's located at the corner of V and Florida in what looks like a house with a chalkboard out front. The people here are very focused on quality. A lot of the items are made in house (turkey and beef roasted in house, hazelnut syrup, housemade sodas) or sourced smartly. They're working with a bakery called Black Strap bakery that is putting out amazing things. As far as the coffee goes, they use a Chemex to do the pour over, which takes about 4 minutes but is totally worth it. They use PT's Coffee from Kansas, and I'll admit that it's nice to have a place not serving Counter Culture. The Washington Post is taking pictures here as I type this, so expect it to get a lot more busy very soon.
porcupine Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Since Don asked, I'll start with just a list and see what others have to say. In no particular order, my favorites for a great cup are: Baked and Wired Filter Peregrine Espresso Chinatown Coffee Company Grape + Bean --- [bingo!] Edited March 27, 2012 by DonRocks
adjen Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 I like M.E.Swing in DC at 17th and G (for the ginger cookies in addition to the coffee), and Northside Social in Clarendon.
darkstar965 Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 Google's a pretty good index for this purpose. Using that, I found most of the dueling threads I'd propose be combined to form a new "Great Coffee Shops" topic. Current threads, besides this one, include: It's the Beans, Coffee, That Is You gotta try the coffee Coffee (from 2006 but w/ 50 posts) Coffee with Clients in Dupont Circle (2007) Best of 2011 (at least one declaration of best joe in this thread) Type of Cuisine Coffee (may be the same as the 2006 one above; this one is in shopping/cooking) Of course, one of the challenges with a "Great Coffee Shops" topic is it'll become gargantuan and unwieldy over time. Since everyone's "great" is different, a mathematician might predict that eventually it'll include EVERY coffee shop. But good we're increasing the number of shop specific topics.
darkstar965 Posted April 11, 2012 Posted April 11, 2012 An imminent new independent coffee house in Baltimore deserves mention on this thread since topical. This one's notable because it will be independent, excellent and has the very unusual backing of and relationship with one of the mid Atlantic's best restaurants.
Anna Phor Posted April 12, 2012 Posted April 12, 2012 You definitely should check out Filter in Dupont Circle. Apparently the Flat White they serve is the real deal and quite popular with Australian ex-pats. This makes me very happy. It looks like there is a new Filter location opening up on the 1900 block of I Street? There is a sign up, although the windows are papered over. Do they do food/pastries, or just coffee?
goodeats Posted April 12, 2012 Posted April 12, 2012 I seem to recall some pastries, but can't remember if there is heartier food. Parking is so hard to find at its current location.
porcupine Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Playing around with google maps, I created this map of independent coffee houses. Hope someone finds it useful. Recommendations for additions most welcome.
saf Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Recommendations for additions most welcome. I like Columbia Heights Coffee at 11th and Monroe.
qwertyy Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 I like Columbia Heights Coffee at 11th and Monroe. I *wish* I liked Columbia Heights Coffee better. The coffee is fine, but the food is really disappointing. I would go there a lot more often if I could get a good pastry or sandwich with my coffee. I fear that enough other people feel the same way so it may not be able to hang on much longer...
DonRocks Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Java Shack & Buzz in Arlington too. I'm typing this from Buzz. (Love the map!) Jammin' Java and Caffe Amouri in Vienna come to mind. Also, I suggest "great atmosphere but middling coffee" might be included as long as they're single-owner shops and have some degree of character (i.e., Coffee Nature in Tenleytown probably wouldn't fit the bill). Maybe we can have darkstar (or maybe a small Coffee Committee?) assign ratings? This is a classic example of something I know a lot about, but other people know still more - I like the idea of harnessing Member Power in subspecialties such as this - cigar shops, beer stores, cheese shops, hell for that matter Thai restaurants (or why not all restaurants? I'd be comfortable handling the restaurant ratings <--- sort of making this up as I go along). Several people have approached me in the past about mapping capabilities, the first of whom was Nashman. I was all for it then, and I'm still all for it now. Maybe we can come up with a standard template to apply to a whole host of topics so we don't have to go back and redo things later? I think this is going to be a very popular feature. In particular, I'm thinking of being able to click on a tag and pull up a map of everything related to that tab. Not worried about someone else stealing the idea because 1) they already have and 2) they don't have our brain power and substance is what's going to make this successful.
saf Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 I *wish* I liked Columbia Heights Coffee better. The coffee is fine, but the food is really disappointing. I have never gotten food there. I love the coffee, but am not a breakfast person. (Actually, I love breakfast, just not as early as I love coffee. So I am always out of there before it is time for food. Then I go to La Caprice to get food.)
Kev29 Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Love the map too -- bookmarked for future use. How about Modern Times at Politics & Prose? http://moderntimescoffeehouse.blogspot.com/ Mayorga at King Farm and National Harbor? http://www.mayorgacoffee.com/about/retail-locations/
porcupine Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Thanks for the suggestions, and glad people like it. I made this map for my own reference; several places people have mentioned I wouldn't include because they don't meet my definition of "really good coffee". However, if people find it useful and as I find the time, I'll create another, more comprehensive version for donrockwell.com. It can be vetted or not as Don prefers. I can also open it up for collaboration (yo, darkstar, any interest?). Another thought: links to dr.com threads in the pop-up window. And brief editorial comments (not ratings; really, what does "two star" mean anyway?). Don, as far as cheese shops, etc, that is what I've been planning on doing. As I get them underway I'll post them. (Maybe you've seen the Farm Market map in the other forum?) Specialty food shops is on the to-do list, especially as I recently discovered that Cork Market has a tiny but excellent cheese selection. Keep the ideas coming. As luck would have it I'm going to have a lot of down time this weekend; if there's internet access where I'm going* (big if) I'll continue the work. If not, expect more later next week. *note for Escoffier: Nelson Ledges. "now with running water!"
MTPeter Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Cool! You should certainly add Flying Fish Coffee & Tea in Mt Pleasant. Great coffee, great people, one of my favorite places to drink coffee in DC, along with Original Filter in Dupont. The staff of Flying Fish are epic - super friendly & laid back. Flying Fish is currently using a tasty bean from Counter Culture for espresso - highly recommended.
bookluvingbabe Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Is Bourbon on L Street (near 21st?) an independent coffee house? I think the coffee is pretty good but I'm not a coffee expert. Their internet is wonky sometimes. I've given up on Baked and Wired since they gave up their internet. (I tend to stay 45 minutes or so but I usually need the option of working so even bad coffee with internet will trump good coffee without internet...)
porcupine Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 Updated: http://goo.gl/maps/IKF7 If anyone know knows how to alphbetize the list on the left size, please tell me how. Thanks.
porcupine Posted August 6, 2012 Posted August 6, 2012 ps happy to add editorial comments/info you pass along, like whether they sell whole beans, or who roasts their beans, or whatever.
Food Nomad Posted August 7, 2012 Posted August 7, 2012 Oby Lee is a newly opened coffee house/wine bar in Arlington. The owner used to have the same type of shop on the Delaware shore but moved it all to Arlington. They have their own coffee and roast on the premises and eventually hope to put the roaster right on the dining area floor. Great lattes.
DonRocks Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 Cameron Cafe (in the old Cameron Perks space near Ben Brenman Park, across the street from Cafe Pizzaiolo (formerly Food Matters)). Half the old space is walled off, kindly owners, a couple couches, a four-seat bar, and a few two- and four-tops, small toddler play area in back, The Daily Roast beans for sale, free WiFi (which I'm using right now), baked goods, very much of a neighborhood feel. Not a destination by any means (my Americano was made with Lavazza (my goodness it's high in caffeine)), but meets every criteria for inclusion, and an important coffee house for this heavily residential neighborhood - anyone living in Cameron Station who regularly frequents Starbucks deserves to ... live in a cookie-cutter Mctownsion.
DaveO Posted August 9, 2012 Posted August 9, 2012 By far my favorite coffee in the Courthouse, Arlington area has been at Euro Cafe: Not a coffee house, a mini market at Wilson Blvd. and Veitch Road. But truth be told its not necessarily the coffee. Its the cocoa powder. Not chocolate powder...not anything else. Cocoa powder. In fact...why write this? I've got to go out and get cocoa powder and bring it back home.
darkstar965 Posted August 12, 2012 Posted August 12, 2012 Apologies have been slow to respond to this. I'm happy to help however but would have to be very minimal time in the near term. I like the map too but personally less likely to use it just because I have all my favorites permanently marked in my brain in a way that most others would probably find odd. Vetting's tough since the exercise is pretty subjective. That said, I did write a couple of longer posts on one of the coffee threads a few months ago with thoughts about that very topic of assessing coffee houses. Anyway, a few quick reactions based only on a 2 minute look at the map: - think you're missing the Dupont location of Dolcezza. Of the three Dolcezzas, Dupont has the most extensive coffee program. G'Town is just espresso. Bethesda does pourovers with 3-4 rotating varieties but devotes more square footage to gelato than to coffee. All very worthwhile though. - not sure why Amouri is marked as "unvetted" but I'd recommend it (and have on that thread). they roast onsite and, while that doesn't guarantee anything, the investment often indicates an owner more serious about the product and thus more successful in producing excellent coffee (Joel same deal at Qualia though Qualia is probably the most serious onsite roasting shop in the area). - also missing Quartermaine in Bethesda. Quartermaine's best days are behind it and I'd always recommend someone in search of good coffee in that area pass by Quartmaine and walk the one block to Dolcezza. But, IMHO but it should be included just because it pre-dates most of the others, has a definite focus on coffee and has many followers. They also have a second location up Rockville way. - Coffy Cafe in Columbia Heights is newer. I'll create a thread soon if noone else does. They use Ceremony, the newly crowned Annapolis-based, most successful (in terms of distribution and national brand awareness anyway) local roaster. - In Alexandria, have to add both Mishas, which has been the top of the totem pole there for a long time (they roast onsite also) and Society Fair, which has a serious and very worthwhile coffee program with ceremony, intelligentsia and maybe even Qualia soon (?) available. - Juan Valdez at 19th and F NW down by World Bank should be on the map. Far from the best in town but decent and worthwhile if in that immediate area. Interesting inasmuch the exclusive Columbia sourcing. And no better spot in town to have an espresso and listen to more than 5 languages from all continents being spoken simultaneously. One more thing. Maybe the map would be even more useful if the pins could be numbered or lettered to make matching left nav column to the map easier? Not sure how to do that but probably not too tough to figure out.
Nick Freshman Posted August 12, 2012 Posted August 12, 2012 This is a great list, and a great symbol of the state of good coffee and good coffee shops. What does it say about my addiction that I will be driving across town just to try some of these places? There are worse vices, I suppose. I may have missed it upthread, but what constitutes vetted? Can I vouch for the Java Shack? In many ways, the original independent, at least in Arlington. Coffee comes primarily from Lexington Roasters in Lexington, VA, a mom and pop shop dedicated to good coffee. We use them at Eventide as well. They just got a new machine, and I have always been satisfied with the product. As an aside, a very extensive selection of gluten-free baked goods. Wi-fi is free, but there are some time limitations (which I wholeheartedly support). Does vetted have to be unbiased? I certainly can't claim that...
darkstar965 Posted August 12, 2012 Posted August 12, 2012 This is a great list, and a great symbol of the state of good coffee and good coffee shops. What does it say about my addiction that I will be driving across town just to try some of these places? [snip] Well, it of course says you're a very wise individual of sincere and substantive character. I may have missed it upthread, but what constitutes vetted? Can I vouch for the Java Shack? In many ways, the original independent, at least in Arlington. Coffee comes primarily from Lexington Roasters in Lexington, VA, a mom and pop shop dedicated to good coffee. We use them at Eventide as well. They just got a new machine, and I have always been satisfied with the product. Does vetted have to be unbiased? I certainly can't claim that... Not sure what porcupine, don or others would say on the vetting question but I'm interested in that also. Clearly this is subjective as with any restaurant or food service establishment. So, by all means very cool on the Java Shack recc. I don't know that one and will try it thanks to you. All that said, I think part of the great value of this website is that such a large percentage of regular posters support their opinions so thoroughly and persuasively. So, while a the end of the day, it's all in the eye of the beholder, there maybe are some ways to put some rigor and substance behind any reccs to make them more reliable and useful for the greatest number of people. Any opinion is inherently biased but a well supported opinion is a wonderful thing. I tried to take a whack at something more criteria-based for coffee shops with this thread though not sure how successful.
porcupine Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 About vetting and such... When I decided to turn my personal Really Great Coffee map into the public Independent Coffee Houses map, I was broadening the scope way beyond my personal experience. Though I'm happy to add stores for the sake of thoroughness, there are some out there I don't care for (Misha's, for example), but seem to be well-regarded by more than a few other people. There are others, though, that I've never heard of, and the recommendation is vague. There are people on dr.com who I consider good personal friends: I've dined with them, I know their tastes, and all they need to write is "FooBarBaz Beans brews the best joe I've ever had", and that's good enough for me. Likewise, there's a large number of people who I don't know well but have dined with, whose opinion I would trust. And there are people whom I've never met, like darkstar965, who write well: intelligent, thorough descriptions, displaying some background knowledge that goes deeper than just what they like and don't like. I'd add anything those people recommend. But what to do with a recommendation that comes from RandomUser69, whose 16 previous posts have said either "it's good, not great", or "I really like it"? That's meaningless if I don't know them, so I'm including their suggestions with the notation "not vetted". As soon as someone I know or who writes well comes back with more detail, I'll replace "not vetted" with a short description. So, if you want to recommend a place, tell us why: who roasts the beans? do they focus on dark roasts or light? single origin, fair-trade, organic: is there a clear ethos? Baristas who know what they're doing? Or if you don't pay attention to such details, at least say why you like it: is it the vibe? or internet access? or good snacks? or that they're open at 0530 and always cheery? Give us some detail. Like darkstar wrote, "a well supported opinion is a wonderful thing". But even if you can't give detail, let us know anyway. "[Coffee Shop] just opened on [street and neighborhood], I like it but can't tell you more" is still good information for others to start with. I'll put it on the map and add detail as I get it. Some days I'm busy, others not as much. As I have time I'll add your recommendations, but it might take a few days. Nick Freshman, I'm with you: I'm going to be driving across town trying some of these places. As time allows.
porcupine Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 - Coffy Cafe in Columbia Heights is newer. I'll create a thread soon if noone else does. They use Ceremony, the newly crowned Annapolis-based, most successful (in terms of distribution and national brand awareness anyway) local roaster. One more thing. Maybe the map would be even more useful if the pins could be numbered or lettered to make matching left nav column to the map easier? Not sure how to do that but probably not too tough to figure out. Coffy Cafe doesn't show up on the google; do you have an address? You can click on the name in the left column and the info will come up at the marker on the map. Updated
darkstar965 Posted August 13, 2012 Posted August 13, 2012 Coffy Cafe doesn't show up on the google; do you have an address? You can click on the name in the left column and the info will come up at the marker on the map. Updated Coffy Cafe is at 3310 14th St NW. On the vetting topic, lots of thoughts there but think it depends on the overriding objective, potential utility and the resources (principally time) that would be defined or available. Suffice to say, free technology could make the map much more functionally robust but that would take knowledge and time and I haven't a clue how many people would care. For example, some of the "unvetted" places are vetted inasmuch as topics exist for them already on this website. Caffe Amouri in Vienna being a good case in point. But to most easily figure all those out, the best way is a google search with "name of shop" and "donrockwell" as the search terms. That type of search and location-based functionality is the edge that relatively vapid sites like yelp have over dr.com. A map helps find good restaurants or coffee spots but it's subordinate to a good search engine. The invision search on which dr.com is built isn't very good. So one can go to yelp, find whatever they're looking for easily (with a cool map right there) and then be rolling the dice on the actual recc content since it's not reliable with lots of random bozos doing the writing. Someday, Don (or someone like him) will figure out how to marry great content with great tech to maximize utility and appeal. Maybe if Don gets his deep-pocketed VC on board. Needs to be a food version of Steve Jobs. Someone who REALLY gets food/beverage, writing, technology and has boatloads of cash. FWIW.
porcupine Posted August 15, 2012 Posted August 15, 2012 I've been trying to add hyperlinks to dr.com threads in the descriptions but it isb't working. If someone knows how to do that please let me know - thanks.
DaveO Posted August 15, 2012 Posted August 15, 2012 I've been trying to add hyperlinks to dr.com threads in the descriptions but it isb't working. If someone knows how to do that please let me know - thanks. I'm going to be building some google maps for some businesses. Ultimately I should know that, but I don't right now. What have you been doing to add the links to the threads?
porcupine Posted August 24, 2012 Posted August 24, 2012 I'm going to be building some google maps for some businesses. Ultimately I should know that, but I don't right now. What have you been doing to add the links to the threads? I figured out how to do it. Choose Rich Text, type the text you want, select it, use the link icon to enter the link, then be sure to hit both "save" and "done". It won't show as a hyperlink in the list text on the left side, but if you click on that to bring up the description box, the hyperlink will be there.
dinwiddie Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 I don't go out of my way to find a coffee shop when I want coffee, for me it is all about being able to get good coffee at my convenience. And that does not mean going to Starsucks. I patronize the Firehook at Judiciary Square because it is right across from my office and they give me a good latte every morning, just the way I want it, and I can get a good cup of coffee in the afternoon if I have time.
Choirgirl21 Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 Is there truly no one committed to making good coffee in the I95 corridor between DC & Baltimore.
DaveO Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 The other day I published a rave review (in a different venue) abt the Starbucks at Courthouse in Arlington. It was all about staffing. Some great customer service. Today, while in line, I witnessed another terrific example in front of me. Really outstanding. I've experienced more than one other similar example at that Starbucks. Frankly I don't go there "that much". Today I asked to speak to the manager and we discussed it. I asked what they were doing....and he attributed as much of the positive staffing to hiring and looking for certain attributes. Now...I actually go far more often to independent coffee shops than starbucks; some enough to be a "regular" and know the staff. But frankly great customer service is "infrequent" and more infrequent at independent's than at the couple of starbucks I might go to more often. Now we also run independent small businesses (not restaurants) and it is very tough to get or develop great staffing. The terrific restaurant operators here know that..as do regular customers as do the FOH staff that are truly terrific. Unfortunately my experience with the independents is that they have all lagged somewhat from what I've experienced at Starbucks. Its a truly difficult task to upgrade staffing and when one achieves it....it simply adds millions to the dining experience.
DonRocks Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Unfortunately my experience with the independents is that they have all lagged somewhat from what I've experienced at Starbucks. They're too busy being mello.
porcupine Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Updated map. Anyone have any place new to recommend?
saf Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 new to recommend? Have you tried Harrar Coffee yet? Georgia and Harvard NW.
DonRocks Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Have you tried Harrar Coffee yet? Georgia and Harvard NW. This is exactly the type of recommendation we need. If anyone else has any, please chime in - we're essentially supporting independent, local coffeehouses that aren't chains, even if they aren't "great." We want to give them the chance to become great. (Do you agree, Elizabeth? This is your baby.)
jasonc Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 on the wasteland to coffee town (I guess Seattle?) spectrum, where does DC rate?
porcupine Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Have you tried Harrar Coffee yet? Georgia and Harvard NW. I have not. I will soon, though (I hope). Thanks! This is exactly the type of recommendation we need. If anyone else has any, please chime in - we're essentially supporting independent, local coffeehouses that aren't chains, even if they aren't "great." We want to give them the chance to become great. (Do you agree, Elizabeth? This is your baby.) You bet. on the wasteland to coffee town (I guess Seattle?) spectrum, where does DC rate? It's been six years since I was in Seattle, but I think DC's top-tier coffee houses offer a cup as good as any I had then (or in San Francisco or New York, since then). The problem is that there are very few in that top tier.
HarlanH Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 A few suggestions... You've got the Filter on 20th, North of DuPont Circle, but not the Filter on I St, between 19th and 20th, NW. The Foggy Bottom branch has no WiFi. I love their pourovers -- great light-roasted beans -- but I generally don't love their espresso, which I find sour. (Others with better palates may disagree!) I'd put Qualia up near the top of local roasters. They also sell their beans at the Columbia Heights Farmer's Market on Saturday mornings. I rarely make it up to their shop, so I can't comment on their preparation. The Blind Dog on Florida Ave is a pretty great little neighborhood coffeeshop off U St. What's the coffeeshop just North of the Convention Center? Blanking... 1
chefgunshow Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Qualia has better coffee than I had anywhere in Lyon France or Portland Oregon. I live in the neighborhood and am totally spoiled.
saf Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Today I am very sad about coffee. My favorite coffee shop has closed. No more Columbia Heights Coffee. When we moved to the house, it was 1990. We were coming from Mt Pleasant. Petworth was nice in terms of the folks who lived around us, but pretty barren when it came to retail and restaurant options. And Columbia Heights was no better. Lovely neighbors, no retail and restaurant that we really wanted. Then Columbia Heights Coffee opened. You could walk there from my house, easily. And all the neighbors did - old and new. Good coffee that I could walk to. That I could walk to on the way to all the new stuff, like the new Giant, and the new farm market. And a place that I could sit with my newspaper, have coffee, chat with the neighbors, and listen to classical music. Oh, and with a small cd exchange and book exchange. And they are gone now. I will miss them. And I don't know where I will get my coffee now.
Kev29 Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Has anyone tried the new La Mano in Takoma Park? http://lamanocoffee.com/ They are open
DonRocks Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Today I am very sad about coffee. My favorite coffee shop has closed. No more Columbia Heights Coffee. When we moved to the house, it was 1990. We were coming from Mt Pleasant. Petworth was nice in terms of the folks who lived around us, but pretty barren when it came to retail and restaurant options. And Columbia Heights was no better. Lovely neighbors, no retail and restaurant that we really wanted. Then Columbia Heights Coffee opened. You could walk there from my house, easily. And all the neighbors did - old and new. Good coffee that I could walk to. That I could walk to on the way to all the new stuff, like the new Giant, and the new farm market. And a place that I could sit with my newspaper, have coffee, chat with the neighbors, and listen to classical music. Oh, and with a small cd exchange and book exchange. And they are gone now. I will miss them. And I don't know where I will get my coffee now. Has anyone tried the new La Mano in Takoma Park? http://lamanocoffee.com/ They are open [This is going to bust my balls, but these places each deserve their own thread, so I'm going to do it at some point, linking to the threads from here.]
porcupine Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions. It's been updated again. Would love it if people start reporting on some of these places. I went to Coffy Cafe today and had a very nice latte. But if you want a lesson in what a difference equipment and training can make, follow a cup from Coffy with a cup from Filter. They use the same beans, but Filter's cup is transcendent. On the other hand, a few days ago I had a cafe au lait from Baked and Wired that was just awful: way too hot and almost no coffee flavor. I tossed it after a few sips. And Baked and Wired is one of my favorites. Any place can serve a bad cup from time-to-time.
clchurch Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 A few late additions: - Malmaison under the Whitehurst Freeway in Georgetown has a coffeeshop component. They use Cuvée beans from Austin for their espresso beverages (supposedly they are the only place on the East Coast to do so). - Azi's on 9th and O NW near the convention center. They use Illy coffee for their drinks. - Lot 38 Espresso Bar next to Canal Park in the Navy Yard area of SE makes their espresso beverages with Illy too. - H Street Coffeehouse that replaced Sova on H Street NE makes excellent espresso beverages using Ceremony beans from Annapolis, but i just doesn't have the same cozy charm as Sova. - La Mano uses Ceremony Mass Appeal beans for their espresso drinks. Mine was excellent, but the place is tiny and not really conducive to lingering, more of a grab a coffee on the way to Metro kind of place. 3
porcupine Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 ^clchurch, thanks for the info. Do you have an exact address for H St Coffeehouse? Neither it nor Sova show up on google maps. If anyone else has any, please chime in - we're essentially supporting independent, local coffeehouses that aren't chains, even if they aren't "great." We want to give them the chance to become great. (Do you agree, Elizabeth? This is your baby.) This map started with the name "Really Great Coffee", which I made for my own reference. When I decided to share it here I also decided to go broader and include any half-decent independent. Now that there are so many, I'm beginning to re-think that. As I get around to visitng some of these places I might decide to drop them. But then, as I posted above, if the other day had been my first at B&W, I'd probably never go back. The amateur critic's dilemma. So please, everyone, post about your experiences at any of these places. The "truly outstanding" notation is of course subjective. My criterion is "would I go out of my way to get there?" If the answer is yes, it gets the *. Anything else ranges anywhere from "really very good" to "good enough in a pinch".
DaRiv18 Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 Do you have an exact address for H St Coffeehouse? I see 1359 H St NE.
Choirgirl21 Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 This is exactly the type of recommendation we need. If anyone else has any, please chime in - we're essentially supporting independent, local coffeehouses that aren't chains, even if they aren't "great." We want to give them the chance to become great. (Do you agree, Elizabeth? This is your baby.) Well based on this I would suggest adding Sidamo in Maple Lawn (Fulton, MD): 8180 Maple Lawn Blvd, Fulton, MD "Ž Oh, I see that there's one on H Street and that one is already included so I definitely suggest adding this location as well. This might not qualify, but if you just want a good cup of strong Ethiopian coffee, there's an Ethiopian restaurant in Burtonsville that serves it (the food is also good and the family that owns it are very friendly): Sorettit's.
porcupine Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 ^Done. Are both Sidamo locations owned by the same people? And, I'm thinking of making a new map for restaurants that serve really good coffee. There are precious few of them. 1
clchurch Posted October 18, 2013 Posted October 18, 2013 I would also point out that Harrar and Sidamo (DC branch) roast their own beans in house.
darkstar965 Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 A recently started thread with a name similar to this one has a huge Starbucks logo with the ghostbusters crossout over it*. I'm as big an advocate and aficionado of independent coffee houses as exists on this site but curious if many have bad feelings about or real distate for Starbucks? My own view on it is no. While Starbucks has become a giant, publicly-traded corporation and I almost never buy coffee there anymore unless they're the only option within several miles (when I travel), I think they played and play several important and useful, beyond-coffee roles in the national and international coffee scenes. And, every now and then, they even bring in some interesting, better-quality products too. * Know Don may have been kidding with the other thread about Porcupine's map and no worries either way. Just prompts an interesting question, at least in my mind.
SRJ Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 Jacob's Coffee House, 8th/D St. NE, but the bubble tea is better than the coffee. And I think everyone is familiar with Pound the Hill.
DonRocks Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 * Know Don may have been kidding with the other thread about Porcupine's map and no worries either way. Just prompts an interesting question, at least in my mind. Yeah, it was (mostly) tongue-in-cheek. Still, Starbucks doesn't need our help, and independent coffee houses do, so in that regard, it's serious. I do think that, for every Starbucks that opens, there's an independent coffee shop that doesn't have a chance to. And because of this, it erodes our cultural heritage - or, at least prevents our potential cultural heritage from thriving (I suppose some might say that Starbucks *is* our cultural heritage, but that's no culture that I want to be associated with).
porcupine Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 Jacob's Coffee House, 8th/D St. NE, but the bubble tea is better than the coffee. And I think everyone is familiar with Pound the Hill. Tell us more about both?
Arcturus Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 I do think that, for every Starbucks that opens, there's an independent coffee shop that doesn't have a chance to. One would think so, but... http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/hey_wait_a_minute/2007/12/dont_fear_starbucks.html http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2008125785_indiecoffee20.html 1
DaveO Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 A recently started thread with a name similar to this one has a huge Starbucks logo with the ghostbusters crossout over it*. I'm as big an advocate and aficionado of independent coffee houses as exists on this site but curious if many have bad feelings about or real distate for Starbucks? My own view on it is no. While Starbucks has become a giant, publicly-traded corporation and I almost never buy coffee there anymore unless they're the only option within several miles (when I travel), I think they played and play several important and useful, beyond-coffee roles in the national and international coffee scenes. And, every now and then, they even bring in some interesting, better-quality products too. * Know Don may have been kidding with the other thread about Porcupine's map and no worries either way. Just prompts an interesting question, at least in my mind. I'm fine with Starbucks. I actually like their coffee. In some cases I prefer it to that of some of the independents and not as much as others. What stunned me though was some really excellent examples of customer service at some starbucks (and some lousy customer service also). But when it was excellent it was very excellent. I followed up on the cases I saw and quietly asked both employees and managers some questions. On the other hand I've experienced some cases of miserable customer service at some independents. The owners could be great but employees could end up being somewhat transient and less responsive. But in general I enjoy the quality of their coffee. Does it kill independents? I'm sure in some cases it does. On the other hand some independents thrive on their localness and different local qualities while providing less than a great product. And others have just great products. It is no doubt tough being an independent. Especially in DC's very high rent territories. In some corridors and in the city rents have simply skyrocketed way beyond the ability of a tenant to make it work. 1
porcupine Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 Not a coffee house as such, but if you're out near Shenandoah National Park check out Central Coffee Roasters in Sperryville. They have carafes of already brewed coffee sitting out for sampling. Beans tend to be dark (full city) roasted. Nice place to stop and chat with the owners when you're out and about hiking or looking for apples or whatever.
saf Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 So, with the closure of Columbia Heights Coffee, I've been looking for other places to get my Saturday morning latte fix. Rules include: Must not be too far off the route from my house to the Columbia Heights farm market. (That is, between the Georgia Ave metrorail station and the Columbia Heights plaza by the Giant.) Must make nice latte, 12 oz or larger. 2% milk preferred, hot coffee/milk required. Must be generally welcoming. Am not interested in getting coffee at the Coupe. So, I went to Qualia again. And the coffee tasted fine, but it was not even warm really. (and I like my coffee HOT) And the staff was less than friendly. It's too bad - I've met Joel and really liked him, and I really like his dedication to the neighborhood. I would like to buy his product, but it isn't quite what I want, and I really dislike interacting with his staff. So, then I went to Room 11 this weekend. And the coffee was ok, but not great, and quite a bit more expensive than other places. And when I asked for 2% milk, I was told my choices were skim or whole. Asking for the milk to be a mix of skim and whole got the desired result but also a side of attitude. I've had the coffee at La Caprice DC. It's fine, not great, not bad. This may end up being where we end up. We still have to try Coffy Cafe too. I wish that Harrar or Sidamo was convenient. Either of those would win every time.
darkstar965 Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 So, with the closure of Columbia Heights Coffee, I've been looking for other places to get my Saturday morning latte fix. Rules include: Must not be too far off the route from my house to the Columbia Heights farm market. (That is, between the Georgia Ave metrorail station and the Columbia Heights plaza by the Giant.) Must make nice latte, 12 oz or larger. 2% milk preferred, hot coffee/milk required. Must be generally welcoming. Am not interested in getting coffee at the Coupe. So, I went to Qualia again. And the coffee tasted fine, but it was not even warm really. (and I like my coffee HOT) And the staff was less than friendly. It's too bad - I've met Joel and really liked him, and I really like his dedication to the neighborhood. I would like to buy his product, but it isn't quite what I want, and I really dislike interacting with his staff. So, then I went to Room 11 this weekend. And the coffee was ok, but not great, and quite a bit more expensive than other places. And when I asked for 2% milk, I was told my choices were skim or whole. Asking for the milk to be a mix of skim and whole got the desired result but also a side of attitude. I've had the coffee at La Caprice DC. It's fine, not great, not bad. This may end up being where we end up. We still have to try Coffy Cafe too. I wish that Harrar or Sidamo was convenient. Either of those would win every time. I'd encourage you to talk with Joel offline about this. The coffee there is the best within any reasonable walking distance for you and, with his upstairs space, plenty of room. That said, you seem pretty decided about Qualia so, I think Coffy Cafe is really the only one that meats your requirements. They are generally very friendly there. Ask to meet the owner (I'm forgetting her name but I think it's on the Coffy Cafe thread that I maybe created or at least contributed to). She's ex Air Force or ex Army and just a great, hospitable person. The coffee is Ceremony (formerly Caffe Pronto) of Annapolis so, though it's not one of your criteria, can feel good about supporting a local--or at least regional--roaster. The most distinguishing thing about Coffy is how big it is. Arguably as much or more seating than any other shop in town. And, super convenient to metro. You won't get a perfect latte there every time (some variation among the staff) but always 12oz or bigger, hot coffee, and 2% available. If you're not happy with a drink there (or anywhere) ask to speak with the owner/manager and then assess how that's handled. Always the right thing to do. You live in a part of the city I think still very underserved in terms of coffee. Can draw a triangle between Coffy Cafe, Qualia and Harrar and you'd cover quite a bit of square milieage without really anything offering great joe and a welcoming environment inside it. Good luck. Check out Coffy Cafe. Ask to meet and chat with the owner. And, let us know what you think. Aw hell, here's the link I wasn't going to include here. And, that owner is Felicia Harris. I'm a fan.
saf Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 I'd encourage you to talk with Joel offline about this. The coffee there is the best within any reasonable walking distance for you and, with his upstairs space, plenty of room. You live in a part of the city I think still very underserved in terms of coffee. Can draw a triangle between Coffy Cafe, Qualia and Harrar and you'd cover quite a bit of square milieage without really anything offering great joe and a welcoming environment inside it. Good luck. Check out Coffy Cafe. I will, and I will. Thank you for the thoughts. I really WANT to like Qualia, so we will see what happens. (OK, I will if I get up the guts. It's HARD to tell someone bad things about a place that they have poured so much work into. Especially when you are afraid that they will say, "But I want it that way. What you want is bad.") I forgot to talk about the visit to Flying Fish. Another one that had nice-tasting coffee that was not very warm, let alone hot. Also less friendly than I would like. And the owner is a friend of a very good friend, and she has raved about his coffee, so I had high hopes. I do begin to wonder if I like my coffee too hot. All the Ethiopian coffee places (Columbia Heights, Sidamo, Harrar, Azi's, and the place that used to be in Brookland that I liked but it is closed now and I don't remember its name) make it the right level of hot for me, but so many of the others (Qualia, Flying Fish, La Caprice, Room 11, Chinatown Coffee, and Peregrin) seem to serve it cooler. Maybe it really is just me.
darkstar965 Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 (1) I will, and I will. Thank you for the thoughts. I really WANT to like Qualia, so we will see what happens. (OK, I will if I get up the guts. It's HARD to tell someone bad things about a place that they have poured so much work into. Especially when you are afraid that they will say, "But I want it that way. What you want is bad.") I forgot to talk about the visit to Flying Fish. Another one that had nice-tasting coffee that was not very warm, let alone hot. Also less friendly than I would like. And the owner is a friend of a very good friend, and she has raved about his coffee, so I had high hopes. (2) I do begin to wonder if I like my coffee too hot. All the Ethiopian coffee places (Columbia Heights, Sidamo, Harrar, Azi's, and the place that used to be in Brookland that I liked but it is closed now and I don't remember its name) make it the right level of hot for me, but so many of the others (Qualia, Flying Fish, La Caprice, Room 11, Chinatown Coffee, and Peregrin) seem to serve it cooler. Maybe it really is just me. Bold-faced numbers above my addition to the quote. (1) Joel monitors this board so may expect you if you identify yourself (which you don't have to do; up to you). Give him the benefit of the doubt here. As a general rule, giving feedback is a bit of an art so not as much about telling them bad things in a critical way as it is sharing balanced thoughts reflective of your preferences. Any proprietor who replies to constructive feedback with your feared quote...well, isn't encouraging and using the kind of customer input that will help their business succeed. And that goes for all businesses in all industries...not just restaurants and coffee shops. (2) Your temperature thing is interesting. First off, there's no "too hot." The usual guidance on good coffee is that the flavors better emerge when it has cooled a bit and isn't scalding but, if you know that and have tried it that way and still prefer it very hot, then that is the right answer for you and that should be 100% fine without anyone judging you for it. Again here, if you tell your barista this preference, then should just be a matter of them being sure to serve your drink straight from the espresso machine, pourover rack or whatever when it is at its hottest.
cheezepowder Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 Anyone tried Retrospect Coffee (19th St) yet?
saf Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 As a general rule, giving feedback is a bit of an art so not as much about telling them bad things in a critical way as it is sharing balanced thoughts reflective of your preferences. When I manage people, this is a good description of how I think about it. It is also how I think of it when I have to get corrective feedback. Somehow I find it hard to think that way as a customer. I know what I want, but then you think about the fact that a business, especially a small business offers what the proprietor wishes to offer and perhaps another business might offer what you want... A while back, elsenet, I was discussing wanting something specific and wishing someplace close to me carried it. Another poster berated me, saying the store offered what it offered and I should accept that or go elsewhere. The comparison was made - should Meridian Pint (my local beer bar) offer Pabst/Miller/Coors/Bud because it is popular and people might want it? Personally, I thought of it more as - Giant doesn't have the cheese I want. If I tell them, they might add it so that I go there for all my grocery needs, rather than switching to Harris Teeter, or Fresh Fields. Trying to walk the line between - all coffee shops should offer this/this is a specialty item that only some coffee shops have. 1
sandynva Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 One would think so, but... http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/hey_wait_a_minute/2007/12/dont_fear_starbucks.html http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2008125785_indiecoffee20.html it's interesting how what you'd logically assume happens isn't always the case, isn't it? and the slate article made me think back to when i first moved to dc about 15 years ago, before starbucks took hold. as i remember it, there were far fewer independent coffeehouses then, so i beleive that its true that starbucks at least didn't kill the independents here Also--and I'm aging myself here--but i remember when i first heard of starbucks and the $4 coffee. both the price and the number of options seemed ridiculous because before 95% of what i ran into into were coffee, lattes, and expresso, all of which were made with regular cow milk. it may have been different on the coasts, but in suburban st. louis there were at most 2 places making coffee drinks like starbucks, and i never heard anyone talk about the origins of the beans, etc. there were some people who ground their own beans or oredered them from nyc and kept them in the freezer, but those people were quirky, and the exception. i think that you could argue that starbucks, by getting more people to think it's normal to pay $4 for a coffee, and to think about the levels of quality, actually made it possible for the independents to thrive. a tangential point but still somewhat related--no one's come out and said it, but the unstated assumption behind this thread seems to be that independents are neccessarily good, and i don't buy this. for example, i haven't been there in forever, and am not even sure it exists anymore, but the coffee at Soho used to be horrendous. and i spent a ton of time at tryst,and that place will forever have a place in my heart, but their coffee ranged from ok to fairly bad.
saf Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 tryst their coffee ranged from ok to fairly bad. Still does - that's why the coffee at the Coupe doesn't appeal to me.
cheezepowder Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Tim Carman's article about the new Kaldi's Coffee Bar in Silver Spring and their steampunk brewing system. 2
porcupine Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 a tangential point but still somewhat related--no one's come out and said it, but the unstated assumption behind this thread seems to be that independents are neccessarily good, and i don't buy this. I wrote about this twice in August of 2012, when I made the first version of my map public. That one was titled Really Good Coffee, and was a very restricted list. At Don's request I turned it into a more comprehensive piece, and I totally agree with you: the quality of product is not necessarily related to the business' status as independent. So recently I went back and added asterisks to the places that I would include on a Really Good Coffee map. Other than that I have no interest in rating or ranking places, though I do put in an occasional editorial comment that I hope people find useful. So: the map is intended to be a comprehensive reference of independently owned shops. It's up to the user to do the research. updated again 2
Kev29 Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 A couple notes from the Starbucks Hell/coffee shop desert that is Montgomery County... cheezepowder - thanks for the link to Carman's piece on Kaldi's. I'm going to check them out. Kensington might be getting an alternative to the Safeway Starbucks. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Java-Nation-Inc/482013565218321 Place has been under construction for a looooong time. Who knows what it will eventually be like. If anything. Wheaton Plaza/Westfield Whatever has a Mayorga by the Costco. It's more of a stand (like their airport shops) than a place to sit down a relax so I don't think it should really make the map, but it's a decent option in a barren land. Beware Costco insanity. Edit: Another note, noticed this place in in downtown Rockville - CremCaffe https://www.facebook.com/CremCaffe?rf=234299319995395. Looks like a nice European/Middle East style espresso cafe, I might check it out. By the looks of the cups they use Bristot espresso beans. 1
durwoodx Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Not a coffee house as such, but if you're out near Shenandoah National Park check out Central Coffee Roasters in Sperryville. They have carafes of already brewed coffee sitting out for sampling. Beans tend to be dark (full city) roasted. Nice place to stop and chat with the owners when you're out and about hiking or looking for apples or whatever. A second for this place. I used to have a monthly recurring order with them. They put the coffee in the mail to you the day they roast it, so you end up getting it 2-4 days after it has been roasted, depending on shipping issues. Very nice stuff. I might just set that back up again....
darkstar965 Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Updated map. Anyone have any place new to recommend? Not a new place now but two thoughts. First, know the "outstanding" is subjective and probably doesn't matter so much since we have threads on most of the better shops around town. Artifact definitely meets the "would I go out of my way" test as do a few others not so indicated but we all have different views. Also, I hadn't looked at the map in awhile but guessing its utility would be much greater if the pushpins could carry numbers corresponding to the list at left? Not sure if that's doable with a custom google map. Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions. It's been updated again. Would love it if people start reporting on some of these places. I went to Coffy Cafe today and had a very nice latte. But if you want a lesson in what a difference equipment and training can make, follow a cup from Coffy with a cup from Filter. They use the same beans, but Filter's cup is transcendent. On the other hand, a few days ago I had a cafe au lait from Baked and Wired that was just awful: way too hot and almost no coffee flavor. I tossed it after a few sips. And Baked and Wired is one of my favorites. Any place can serve a bad cup from time-to-time. That last line I've bolded is very important. My own views on shops are informed by repeated visits. Exceedingly rare that a shop nails brewed and espresso drinks every time but the best shops are definitely more consistent than others along with the other factors that matter in distinguishing the best (beans, staff, brew methods, equipment, policies, shop particulars, etc.). I have threads on here somewhere with points of view around what makes a great coffee shop different from the rest but can't find 'em to link now. Coffy Cafe is a very good (not outstanding imho) shop partly brought down just a notch by consistency. Filter is better but I probably wouldn't go so far as to call most cups I get there "transcendent." Different strokes keep it all interesting. ..... a tangential point but still somewhat related--no one's come out and said it, but the unstated assumption behind this thread seems to be that independents are neccessarily good, and i don't buy this. for example, i haven't been there in forever, and am not even sure it exists anymore, but the coffee at Soho used to be horrendous. and i spent a ton of time at tryst,and that place will forever have a place in my heart, but their coffee ranged from ok to fairly bad. Couldn't agree with this (you) more. Merely being an independent shop guarantees nothing. And, some small chains (Peregrine with 3 locations, Dolcezza with 5) do an excellent job even with a bit more scale. 1
porcupine Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Also, I hadn't looked at the map in awhile but guessing its utility would be much greater if the pushpins could carry numbers corresponding to the list at left? Not sure if that's doable with a custom google map. I don't think it's possible. Just click on a pushpin the find out what it represents.
porcupine Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Is anyone familiar with Killer ESP in Alexandria?
DonRocks Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Is anyone familiar with Killer ESP in Alexandria? Write Gary Collins.
Arcturus Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 it's interesting how what you'd logically assume happens isn't always the case, isn't it? i think that you could argue that starbucks, by getting more people to think it's normal to pay $4 for a coffee, and to think about the levels of quality, actually made it possible for the independents to thrive. a tangential point but still somewhat related--no one's come out and said it, but the unstated assumption behind this thread seems to be that independents are neccessarily good, and i don't buy this. for example, i haven't been there in forever, and am not even sure it exists anymore, but the coffee at Soho used to be horrendous. and i spent a ton of time at tryst,and that place will forever have a place in my heart, but their coffee ranged from ok to fairly bad. Absolutely. Those kinds of counter-intuitive truths have always fascinated me. I agree with your second point as well. Starbucks' marketing convinced people that the coffee that they were selling was desirable, and they could charge more for it because of that. Then as people began to see what else they could get for the same amount of money, it paved the way for other companies to give really beautiful coffees to the people that want it, for essentially the same price point. Your third point is spot-on as well. It was hard for me to find coffee/espresso that appealed to me in DC (in large part because I've never been big on Ceremony or Counter Culture beans) before Qualia, so most of what I cared about in a coffee shop was whether they could put a jillion shots of espresso in a mocha for me, unless they were one of the few shops that served coffee/espresso that I really liked (Dolcezza, assuming their current espresso wasn't either of the above, or somewhere serving Vigilante). If the wife and I wanted really nice coffee, we'd get mail-order from Gorilla, Blue Bottle, Klatch, Flying Goat, or The Roasting Plant and brew that at home. As a with-all-disclaimers-added side note, we've stopped doing that because we feel that the coffee at Qualia is generally just as good (if not better, in some cases) than the producers above.
chiefdc Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 I'll be honest, as an avid coffee drinker, I've had better coffee experiences at Starbucks than I do most independents. (The exceptions: Cafe Amouri in Vienna, Peregrine, and Bakehouse at 14th and T, which serves a Zeke's blend, and Filter). Starbucks delivers good quality coffee and consistency. It's never going to blow you away, but I rarely leave disappointed.
RoastMonkey Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Hey All, I am just catching up on this thread. My only comment would be that while we believe our espresso program is very competitive with other top coffee shops in the city, our focus is and always has been on brewed coffee. I feel that this is the best way to highlight both the natural product and the wide spectrum of flavors it exhibits. I think I can safely say we are the only shop in the DC Metro area that offers twelve different origins all of which have been roasted within a week of when we serve it (we sell all our beans within three days of roasting them or take them off the shelf). I enjoy a good latte as much as the next guy, but the real joy for me is savoring a good cup of black coffee.
darkstar965 Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 Hey All, I am just catching up on this thread. My only comment would be that while we believe our espresso program is very competitive with other top coffee shops in the city, our focus is and always has been on brewed coffee. I feel that this is the best way to highlight both the natural product and the wide spectrum of flavors it exhibits. I think I can safely say we are the only shop in the DC Metro area that offers twelve different origins all of which have been roasted within a week of when we serve it (we sell all our beans within three days of roasting them or take them off the shelf). I enjoy a good latte as much as the next guy, but the real joy for me is savoring a good cup of black coffee. Joel's biased since, well, he owns Qualia ( ) but I'm not. I arguably get around to at least as many coffee shops as anyone who's not "in the biz," which I'm not. Just love and appreciate great coffee. And, well documented here on dr.com that I have loyalties to a number of shops around town based on my own perceptions of the quality of bean/grind and experience. As example, I'm a fan of Filter, Peregrine, Coffee Bar and Wydown along with a few others. Have been a fan of Dolcezza but not quite as enthusiastic as I was with their switch to the exclusive relationship with Stumptown. Caffe Afficionado is an exciting new entrant but jury still out a bit. And, I have called out a few shops at times but hopefully supported those criticisms substantively and constructively. Have even posted topically on how I think about greatness in coffee shops as separate threads. So, that all to establish, based on my posting record here, that I'm not biased but I'd definitely underscore what Joel has written above. He has always been near-entirely about brewed joe and, personally, I LOVE that passion and focus believing that it's simply always easier to do something great when you're more focused as he is. And, I hadn't thought of Qualia that way before but I think Joel is right that they offer more single-origin bean varietals for in-store brewing and takeaway than most any other shop in the city. Going one step beyond that though, it's very important with Qualia to remember that Joel was dating his beans well before that became more trendy and widespread. His coffee truly is "fresh off the roast" as he promotes. There are one or two other shops in town that I won't name here who also offer an unusually large selection of beans but they are not as carefully and as recently roasted as what you'll find at Qualia. I've written about them separately so no need to re-hash here. Final note. As with most any high-quality shop, Joel offers a greater number of beans for retail sale than available for brewing in store. I want to say that there are typically 6 or 7 coffees arrayed on his counter in glass jars each day for in-store brewing and these rotate regularly. That's a larger number than most other shops where 3-4 is a more typical number. One thing that drives me especially crazy is when a better shop retails a large number of different types of beans by the bag but only offers one or two to drink in store. I was in Pittsburgh recently and went to one of their better shops that was exclusive with Chicago's Intelligentsia. They had maybe 10 different Intelligentsia coffees, from most of the major growing regions of the world, on the shelves for retail purchase but only one available for a pourover. When I asked if they'd make something different for me (maybe by opening a bag?) they refused. Huge fail there imho. Qualia is one of the city's coffee shop treasures. More great new shops join the scene each month but Joel deserves definite credit and the business of coffee lovers for the passion, seriousness, focus and expertise he brings to every cup you'll drink or make with Qualia beans. I just hope he gets that growth and loyalty enough to make a 2nd shop possible and, when it is, that it's located in a higher foot-traffic area so Qualia will really 'live long and prosper' and it'll be easier for me to access more regularly. 1
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