Restaurant Week - Winter 2008

[cheezepowder]

(I know, it's early and January seems ages away.) Going Out Gurus blog says that the next Restaurant Week is Jan. 14 - Jan. 20, has some info on participants, and says 1789 and Corduroy are extending. The full list should be posted here at some point.

For reference, the Summer (August) 2007 Restaurant Week thread is here.

[New Foodie]

It's baaaaaaack

[DonRocks]

If everyone posts their RW experiences in the individual restaurant threads, I'll link to them all here for future reference.

Cheers,

Rocks.

PS7's (rbh)

Cafe Mozu (lizzie)

PS7's (SVT)

Tosca (DPop)

Notti Bianche (collije)

Vidalia (AlexC)

PS7's (New Foodie)

Spezie (Tujague)

Farrah Olivia (giant shrimp)

Corduroy (zoramargolis)

Vidalia (monavano)

New Heights (MMM)

Mendocino Grille (Banco)

Corduroy (FoodRockzMan)

d'Acqua (jiveturk21)

Spezie (Sthitch)

Domaso Trattoria Moderna (cheezepowder)

Corduroy (lackadaisi)

The Liberty Tavern (Baccala)

Dino (bmcdonal6674)

Dino (shaggy)

Mendocino Grille (ol_ironstomach)

Domaso Trattoria Moderna (collije)

The Oval Room (jiveturk21)

Mendocino Grille (youngfood)

Vidalia (bettyjoan)

Corduroy (New Foodie)

Mendocino Grille (derekc)

Corduroy (bettyjoan)

PS7's (RWBooneJr.)

Farrah Olivia (Tweaked)

[Mark Slater]

If everyone posts their RW experiences in the individual restaurant threads, I'll link to them all here for future reference.

Cheers,

Rocks.

Without naming names, the participating restaurant friend I visited tonight after work told me that 2 tables of 2 had asked if they could split the Restaurant Week menu. Seriously. 30 bucks for a full dinner in a nice restaurant ain't cheap enough? I guess they didn't drink wine, either. Of course, in our business, it's looked upon as rude to say to someone in the face "You must be joking".

Comments welcome.

[legant]

Without naming names, the participating restaurant friend I visited tonight after work told me that 2 tables of 2 had asked if they could split the Restaurant Week menu. Seriously. 30 bucks for a full dinner in a nice restaurant ain't cheap enough? I guess they didn't drink wine, either. Of course, in our business, it's looked upon as rude to say to someone in the face "You must be joking".

Comments welcome.

Seriously. I've done it. As a pre-theatre meal. And, usually it is a full meal. It's not about the money; it's about snoring during Tamburlaine.

Theater on both Wednesday and Thursday nights; more than likely I will be splitting, rather reluctantly, my lamb steak. Stop by and say hi; code word is mussels.

[Heather]

Without naming names, the participating restaurant friend I visited tonight after work told me that 2 tables of 2 had asked if they could split the Restaurant Week menu. Seriously. 30 bucks for a full dinner in a nice restaurant ain't cheap enough? I guess they didn't drink wine, either. Of course, in our business, it's looked upon as rude to say to someone in the face "You must be joking".

Comments welcome.

Does that happen often? And do places allow it? I'd probably order from the regular menu if the RW choices were not to my taste, or if the amount of food would be too much.

I'm curious to know from a server's point of view if the number of tables served during RW makes up for the reduced costs of food.

[mdt]

Without naming names, the participating restaurant friend I visited tonight after work told me that 2 tables of 2 had asked if they could split the Restaurant Week menu. Seriously. 30 bucks for a full dinner in a nice restaurant ain't cheap enough? I guess they didn't drink wine, either. Of course, in our business, it's looked upon as rude to say to someone in the face "You must be joking".

Comments welcome.

Rather rude if you ask me. I can only hope that they tipped extremely well, but I doubt it.

[Halloween]

Without naming names, the participating restaurant friend I visited tonight after work told me that 2 tables of 2 had asked if they could split the Restaurant Week menu. Seriously. 30 bucks for a full dinner in a nice restaurant ain't cheap enough? I guess they didn't drink wine, either. Of course, in our business, it's looked upon as rude to say to someone in the face "You must be joking".

Comments welcome.

For some, 30 bucks isn't cheap enough (boy do I remember those days), but the solution isn't to split a restaurant week dinner. It's to save until you can afford it, eat something less expensive on the menu, or eat somewhere else. I rather enjoy a slice of pizza from Vace and a long walk on a spring day.

[Dave Pressley]

I'm curious to know from a server's point of view if the number of tables served during RW makes up for the reduced costs of food.

As someone who has participated in plenty of RW's, I can certainly tell you that the amount of tables served in most restaurants does not generally increase dramatically. You are, however, far more likely during restaurant week to have more tables in at your 6:00 slots, so you are able to get one turn in before the major push at 7:30-8:30, but that's it really (in my experiences). Since most servers generally work 4-5 table sections, they'll see about 2-4 more tables than normal each night--not nearly enough tippage to make up for the low sales numbers.

This is also assuming that RW guests are aware that the restaurant is trying to turn their table over quickly during the week to increase the number of guests served. Since this is generally not the case (and in a lot of cases, the tables stay LONGER than normal), servers will stand to wait on about the same tables as usual and walk with much less money.

I stopped doing RW years ago when they started charging restaurants to participate. I think it was $500, although I've heard that it has either increased to $1000 already or is going to this year. RW was always a headache for me and I certainly wasn't going to pay for it!

Edited to add: I know for a fact that other operators have much more positive experiences than mine and that the promotion really does help their business. If it was all negative, the promotion would have stopped a long time ago.

[Heather]

So for the servers, RW is more work for less money. Thanks Dave, that's what I suspected.

[edenman]

So for the servers, RW is more work for less money. Thanks Dave, that's what I suspected.

I think this conclusion assumes that the restaurant was already going to be full that evening. In many restaurants that may be the case, but for a random weeknight in early January, I could see many of the places that participate otherwise being dead.

[Dave Pressley]

I think this conclusion assumes that the restaurant was already going to be full that evening. In many restaurants that may be the case, but for a random weeknight in early January, I could see many of the places that participate otherwise being dead.

The restaurants that are popular and busy on a normal basis are exactly the ones that people flood during RW. Who wants to "waste" a RW reservation on a restaurant that isn't considered head-of-the-class? Restaurants that get astronomically busier than normal during RW are probably beneficiaries of overflow from the fully-booked first choice places.

I'm sure that servers whose tips dramatically increase during RW would rather that they made more consistent money for the rest of the year instead of a few spike weeks.

[edenman]

The restaurants that are popular and busy on a normal basis are exactly the ones that people flood during RW. Who wants to "waste" a RW reservation on a restaurant that isn't considered head-of-the-class? Restaurants that get astronomically busier than normal during RW are probably beneficiaries of overflow from the fully-booked first choice places.

I'm sure that servers whose tips dramatically increase during RW would rather that they made more consistent money for the rest of the year instead of a few spike weeks.

No doubt, although I think the overflow is considerable, especially since not everyone knows exactly which places are "head-of-the-class". You can just go by the number of dollar signs (and I'm sure folks do) to determine where to go.

I'm sure the servers would rather have consistent business, but so would the restaurant. A place like PS7 (just because it's been mentioned as a place that was busy last night) is normally not at all busy on a Monday night but, due to RW, they've got at least two customers who say they're likely to return. And I imagine a few of the other non-posting folks too.

RW can be good for both the customer and the restaurant, but it has to be the right kind of restaurant and the right kind of customer.

[Dave Pressley]

RW can be good for both the customer and the restaurant, but it has to be the right kind of restaurant and the right kind of customer.

Agreed.

[deangold]

So for the servers, RW is more work for less money. Thanks Dave, that's what I suspected.

For another perspective:

During Restaurant week, we get about half a turn early and maybe the same late on the typical slow nights. On the busy nights we get a few more tables on either end. But we wind up with a week of "Friday" and "Saturday" night sales volumes.

Last night we did over twice our normal Monday business (in dollars) and we had 5 waits instead of 3. So each wait walked with more than they would have on a "normal" Monday. I think looking at the reservation book for the rest of the week, that the servers will walk with significantly more on Tuesday thru Thursday (20% over normal or more), a little more on Friday, the same on Saturday. Too early to predict on Sunday.

Our turn time was pretty normal or a little better than normal.

Lastly, our single biggest source of new diners is RW. I had at least 10 parties last night tell me they would be back after that, their initial visit. On a normal night that number is 2-3. If 1-2 of those customers becomes a top tier customer once a month or more) and 2-3 become regulars(4 times a year or more) the return on the discount is pretty darned amazing. Off the top of my head, I bet that 20% of our most frequent diners made their first visit during a RW. And many RW customers also turn out to be above average advocates and send up more customers than the average regular).

[Heather]

OK, so it depends on the customer & what they order in addition to the RW offerings, how popular and/or expensive the restaurant is, how many times they turn over the table, and whether the restaurant feels like shelling out $1000 to begin with.

That's a lot of variables. I'll resume my dining experiences next week.

[collije]

Noticed on DCFoodies that they list which restaurants are extending their RW deal beyond this week.

Might be a sticky for me after this week!

[Waitman]

Without naming names, the participating restaurant friend I visited tonight after work told me that 2 tables of 2 had asked if they could split the Restaurant Week menu. Seriously. 30 bucks for a full dinner in a nice restaurant ain't cheap enough? I guess they didn't drink wine, either. Of course, in our business, it's looked upon as rude to say to someone in the face "You must be joking".

Comments welcome.

Rather rude if you ask me. I can only hope that they tipped extremely well, but I doubt it.

My experience as a waiter was that -- with exceptions -- people who are cheap in one aspect of dining out are cheap in all of them. People who carry coupons or split orders also drink cheap (if at all) and tip poorly.

[youngfood]

What is it that makes those who don't care for Restaurant Week feel they need to denigrate those who do? Maybe we should put a cautionary note in the heading of this thread warning folks who dislike RW that they should only enter with caution? Seriously, folks with wallets so big that they need not ever consider their budget when engaging in fine dining need to calm down about the rest of the world that does.

[Dr. Delicious]

I don't think it's fair to equate people who use coupons with people who are cheap. They are, after all, only taking advantage of a promotion put in place by the restaurant itself.

[Anna Blume]

My experience as a waiter was that -- with exceptions -- people who are cheap in one aspect of dining out are cheap in all of them. People who carry coupons or split orders also drink cheap (if at all) and tip poorly.

You are gracious enough to note exceptions. Mark Slater's example is extreme, true, and frankly, disrespectful if possibly, due to the ignorance of folk who do not dine out on a regular basis.

On the other hand, for those who are frugal out of necessity, Restaurant Week offers a rare treat if they cannot afford to become the regular patrons that participating businesses might be hoping to attract. Empathy dictates that those with generous hearts tip well.

ETA: To clarify, "disrespectful" refers to the patrons and not to MS.

[Waitman]

I don't think it's fair to equate people who use coupons with people who are cheap. They are, after all, only taking advantage of a promotion put in place by the restaurant itself.

OK. People who use coupons tend to drink inexpensively or not at all and tip below average. They are not cheap, they are frugal.

Same difference, though.

You are gracious enough to note exceptions. Mark Slater's example is extreme, true, and frankly, disrespectful if possibly, due to the ignorance of folk who do not dine out on a regular basis.

On the other hand, for those who are frugal out of necessity, Restaurant Week offers a rare treat for those who cannot afford to become the regular patrons that participating businesses might be hoping to attract. Empathy dictates that those with generous hearts tip well.

I surely do not mean to lump all RestoWeekers into the "cheap" category. I'm sure the majority are perfectly wonderful and number some of my friends and acquaintences among them.

(Last time I was at RW I didn't actually realize what was going on. "Pretty crowded for a Wednesday noght in August," I remember telling my friend, a little cluelessly.)

[Dr. Delicious]

OK. People who use coupons tend to drink inexpensively or not at all and tip below average. They are not cheap, they are frugal.

Well, you're the Waitman, so i guess you would know, but it still strikes me as an unfair characterization.

[xcanuck]

Perhaps it's time for restaurants to place notices on their RW menus saying "Please do not split RW entrees". Sorta like putting "Contents are VERY hot" on a coffee cup but it avoids hassles in the long run.

[mdt]

What is it that makes those who don't care for Restaurant Week feel they need to denigrate those who do? Maybe we should put a cautionary note in the heading of this thread warning folks who dislike RW that they should only enter with caution? Seriously, folks with wallets so big that they need not ever consider their budget when engaging in fine dining need to calm down about the rest of the world that does.

Who is denigrating the folks that enjoy RW? I was referring to the specific example posted above. I think RW can be a great way to try a new and perhaps more costly places.

[treznor]

(Last time I was at RW I didn't actually realize what was going on. "Pretty crowded for a Wednesday noght in August," I remember telling my friend, a little cluelessly.)

I did that exact thing last week. I walked into Butterfield 9's bar as I was in the area. After inquiring about a dinner menu I was handed the full menu as well as a RW menu. After a quizical look the bartender let me know that Butterfield 9 runs RW specials a week before RW in order to tune the menu. I had completely forgotten it was even the time of year for RW.

Regardless I ended up getting a gorgeously prepared roast pork chop that was wonderfully juicy and tasty.

[c_kadish]

Without naming names, the participating restaurant friend I visited tonight after work told me that 2 tables of 2 had asked if they could split the Restaurant Week menu. Seriously. 30 bucks for a full dinner in a nice restaurant ain't cheap enough? I guess they didn't drink wine, either. Of course, in our business, it's looked upon as rude to say to someone in the face "You must be joking".

Comments welcome.

I read this earlier, and it's bugging me a little. It just seems to fuel the attitude that RW diners (or anyone not ordering wine/cocktails) are cheap and miserable, and horrible to deal with from the restaurant's point of view. Was the restaurant that offended that they asked to split a meal?

I think this bothers me most because it lacks any kind of perspective. Were they allowed to split it? Did they complain if they weren't? What kind of tip did they leave in the end? Two tables asked out of how many that were served that night?

The restaurant here must have some positive reason for participating in RW. It seems almost silly if this is the biggest complaint to come out of it.

I realize not many can/would offer they type of information Dean has in his post above, but it would be nice to read more like this with actual information about what places gain/lose during RW.

[alan7147]

What is it that makes those who don't care for Restaurant Week feel they need to denigrate those who do? Maybe we should put a cautionary note in the heading of this thread warning folks who dislike RW that they should only enter with caution? Seriously, folks with wallets so big that they need not ever consider their budget when engaging in fine dining need to calm down about the rest of the world that does.

Agreed! It is true that some on here think that "they are too cool for school" when it comes to RW. Me, I am personally not a big fan, but I surely see the value in it.

[Heather]

Agreed! It is true that some on here think that "they are too cool for school" when it comes to RW. Me, I am personally not a big fan, but I surely see the value in it.

Not too cool for school. Just not willing to put up with the crowds and the rush, and the limited choices in order to save a few bucks. Plus I am not convinced that the waitstaff benefits from it at the places I usually hang out.

[Mark Slater]

I read this earlier, and it's bugging me a little. It just seems to fuel the attitude that RW diners (or anyone not ordering wine/cocktails) are cheap and miserable, and horrible to deal with from the restaurant's point of view. Was the restaurant that offended that they asked to split a meal?

I think this bothers me most because it lacks any kind of perspective. Were they allowed to split it? Did they complain if they weren't? What kind of tip did they leave in the end? Two tables asked out of how many that were served that night?

The restaurant here must have some positive reason for participating in RW. It seems almost silly if this is the biggest complaint to come out of it.

I realize not many can/would offer they type of information Dean has in his post above, but it would be nice to read more like this with actual information about what places gain/lose during RW.

I think you are reading too much in that's not there.

[monsterriffs]

I feel like this debate arises every time RW comes around and serves absolutely no purpose other than to help posters somewhat discern what income quintile people belong to.

[Heather]

I feel like this debate arises every time RW comes around and serves absolutely no purpose other than to help posters somewhat discern what income quintile people belong to.

I think you'd be surprised. It's perfectly possible to be cheap without being poor, and generous without being comfortable.

[porcupine]

My experience as a waiter was that -- with exceptions -- people who are cheap in one aspect of dining out are cheap in all of them. People who carry coupons or split orders also drink cheap (if at all) and tip poorly.

Please tell me, then, as a former waiter, what you think of this: since some restaurants serve very large sized entrees, Mr P and I will split an order. For example, we'll each have a soup, each have an appetizer, split the main course, and split a dessert. I almost always get at least one alcoholic beverage, but Mr P doesn't drink. Our tipping strategy is to calculate based on what the bill would have been if we had gotten two main courses and two desserts. Is that acceptable?

And no, we'd never do this during restaurant week or any other special promotion.

[Mark Slater]

Please tell me, then, as a former waiter, what you think of this: since some restaurants serve very large sized entrees, Mr P and I will split an order. For example, we'll each have a soup, each have an appetizer, split the main course, and split a dessert. I almost always get at least one alcoholic beverage, but Mr P doesn't drink. Our tipping strategy is to calculate based on what the bill would have been if we had gotten two main courses and two desserts. Is that acceptable?

And no, we'd never do this during restaurant week or any other special promotion.

Of course that's acceptable. Splitting a RW dinner, on the other hand looks like this: $30.08 + $3.00 tax + $5.00 tip = $38.08 for two instead of $76.00. Waitress gets $5.00 - 30% for bar and bus help - 30% payroll/SS tax, net is $2.00 in pocket. That, at least to me, is not acceptable.

Ask Dean what it costs to get linen cleaned.

[c_kadish]

I think you are reading too much in that's not there.

Probably true. This thread always seems to turn into a discussion bashing RW participants and how horrible RW is, and your comment seemed to set that in motion.

But from many of the comments here it seems it brings the least desirable customers, waiters are overworked and not happy with their tips, and on top of that you have to pay to participate. And there's a good chance a diner will be rushed because tables have to be turned more quickly. It sounds like a disaster.

What I probably should have just done in my last post was ask how RW has gone on for so long, and why so many places participate, and even extend it, if it's such a hassle.

It's got to have its merits, and I wish that was shown a little bit more in this thread.

[Waitman]

Let me be clear: cheapskateness is not necessarily defined by how much money you spend or how much you eat or whether you go to Restaurant Week. It's an attitude and it manifests itself in numerous ways and results in poor tips and bad karma. The defining attribute of a true tightwad is that they're more interested in saving a few pennies than eating well, and they often just don't seem to be having a good time, probably because they're always burdened by the suspicion that someone's out to cheat them of a dollar thirty-nine. Makes you wonder why they don't stay home and just eat gruel. Also, in my experience, it's not necessarily reflective of income or status -- Scrooge wasn't poor and most of the cheapskates I waited on weren't either. They were just, you know, cheap.

[MC Horoscope]

I feel like this debate arises every time RW comes around and serves absolutely no purpose other than to help posters somewhat discern what income quintile people belong to.

I belong to quintile 911, FTW.

[Roo]

My wife and I are not necessarily excited about restaurant week because we get to try new places that we couldn't otherwise afford. It seems for many of the restaurants participating in RW, $30 isn't that much of a deal -- perhaps a free dessert -- based on their normal prices. And generally the menus are much more limited. However, we DO get excited about RW because it seems like it provides a convenient excuse to invite friends or coworkers out to dinner and have them say yes. People seem to be generally more interested in eating out during RW even if little money is actually saved. So I look forward to RW simply because I know we can usually get some interesting company to join us. Now, maybe we just need to either remember to invite friends out with us on other weeks of the year, or develop more sparkling personalities but RW usually ends up being pretty fun.

[New Foodie]

Now, maybe we just need to either remember to invite friends out with us on other weeks of the year, or develop more sparkling personalities but RW usually ends up being pretty fun.

I think it's definitely your personalities that are the problem

[deangold]

Ask Dean what it costs to get linen cleaned.

We have concrete tables. 4-6 bar cloths at $.35 apiece from linens of the week. 6-9 on

Friday & Saturday when I have 3 bussers.

[jiveturk21]

However, we DO get excited about RW because it seems like it provides a convenient excuse to invite friends or coworkers out to dinner and have them say yes. People seem to be generally more interested in eating out during RW even if little money is actually saved. So I look forward to RW simply because I know we can usually get some interesting company to join us.

I agree with Roo on this one.

In most cases, I have avoided RW over the past few years because 1) it is crowded as hell, 2) the portions sizes seem to suffer and the menus, in most cases, tend to be limited and 3) the servers are often not on their game and the restaurant is pushing you out the door. So, for me, it is not worth it. I would rather have a great experience at a restaurant and pay for it as opposed to an average experience at a restaurant and save money.

At the same time, not all of my friends like to go out to dinner and spend $300 per couple, not because they don't have the money, but because they don't see the point of it. But, it is much easier to get them to go out during RW when they think that they are getting a good deal, even though they usually spend a ton of money anyway.

Three more points...

1. There must be a reason why restaurants participate in RW, so it can't be all all doom and gloom.

2. Some restaurants for an amazing job with RW and other do a crappy job, it sucks to have to sort through them, but if you do, you will have an excellent experience.

3. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Do people tip crappy during RW because they are cheap and they are just trying to get a good deal? Or, do people tip crappy during RW because the menu is small and not seasonal, the servers are in a surly mood and the restaurant is trying to turn over your table in one hour? My guess is that it is a bit of both.

[DonRocks]

I've hesitated to chime in on this conversation, but I'll share a Restaurant Week experience from last night.

I had dinner at a restaurant where I've dined probably a dozen times in the past - a restaurant widely considered one of the places doing Restaurant Week the right way, and a restaurant generally costing much more than $30.08 for a three-course dinner.

THE POSITIVE

The full menu was available

The staff was energized and friendly as always

Upcharges applied only to the most expensive items

Portions were as large as ever

The meal was a tremendous value for $30.08

THE NEGATIVE

The staff was extremely busy

Desserts had to be ordered at the beginning

The bread, usually freshly made, was dry and cold

The cooking, usually excellent, was very off

The platings were very formulated looking

Ice cream, usually house-made, was purchased

The meal was the worst I've ever had here

My biggest concern with Restaurant Week is that diners walk away thinking they've had "the full experience," when, especially in the busiest, most expensive restaurants, they haven't. The only things that are the same as a "normal" evening are the restaurant space itself, and the wine list. The staff is often harried, the quality of the cooking is almost always compromised, and portion sizes are sometimes reduced. In my experience, the diner is generally saving $5-10 over what a regular meal would cost, essentially getting a free dessert.

There's nothing worse than someone pointing out a problem without offering a solution. So I'm proposing a "Restaurant Week In Perpetuity" thread, detailing self-composed three-course dinners that can be enjoyed for $30 or less, week-in and week-out.

Cheers,

Rocks.

[mdt]

I've hesitated to chime in on this conversation, but I'll share a Restaurant Week experience from last night.

And you don't mention the name because....

[DonRocks]

And you don't mention the name because....

....because I am mean.

(And because I know from personal experience that this meal wasn't representative of the restaurant, but it WAS representative of Restaurant Week.)

[Josh Radigan]

not to be pr#!k ,but they still charged you, right? And if this is not a representation of what they typically do during regular weeks, then why, as someone put it earlier in a question, do the promo of RW. If you are going to do RW and take a half-ass aproach in hopes of generating a lttle more revenue during a slow week, then maybe this is an indication of how you treat your business in the first place. Good restaurants are busy all the time, no matter congress in, congress out, summer, winter snow, they stay busy.

[Walrus]

not to be pr#!k ,but they still charged you, right? And if this is not a representation of what they typically do during regular weeks, then why, as someone put it earlier in a question, do the promo of RW. If you are going to do RW and take a half-ass aproach in hopes of generating a lttle more revenue during a slow week, then maybe this is an indication of how you treat your business in the first place. Good restaurants are busy all the time, no matter congress in, congress out, summer, winter snow, they stay busy.

Because I don't think the restaurants think of themselves as taking "a half-ass approach" to it. My guess is that they're doing the absolute best they can, given the circumstances. If you have X number of people on a "regular" night and 2X people -- most of whom may not eat out regularly and may not perhaps fully understand/remember/want to know how to be a good (or even sometimes polite) customer, and you're cooking the same 6 dishes for each and every one of those 2X people...yeah, it's going to strain the system. It comes down to the fact that you get what you pay for. If you want to eat a meal that is half the price of what a "regular" meal would cost, then it's only fair to expect it to be half the value of that meal. Of course, most restaurants are doing, I would guess, 70% to 80% of the value of the "regular" meal for half the cost -- some may be lower, and some may even be higher.

In short, if you want to experience "what they typically do during regular weeks," then you would eat there during a regular week. If you want the experience of what $30.08 can buy you -- and 2X the "regular" number of other diners at the same time -- you eat there during Restaurant Week.

Please note, I am in no way bashing those who choose to eat out during Restaurant Week -- just pointing out that it is, indeed, their choice, and they should understand that it is -- in my opinion -- impossible to provide the same level of experience to 2X people as it is to X people in the same amount of time.

[youngfood]

Please note, I am in no way bashing those who choose to eat out during Restaurant Week -- just pointing out that it is, indeed, their choice, and they should understand that it is -- in my opinion -- impossible to provide the same level of experience to 2X people as it is to X people in the same amount of time.

I definitely hear what you are saying (indeed my RW participation, which was once huge, is now de minimis), but didn't Dean say earlier that Fri & Sat nights are about the same volume as usual? Why is RW SO much harder than an average weekend night? Slammed restaurants are rarely at their best, but aren't a lot of the better spots in town pretty well full on Fri/Sat nights as is? A quick opentable search for next Friday suggests that Central, Proof, Westend and the Source are all already unable to take a party of 4 after 6pm. Again, not defending RW as perfect or suggesting that things should be perfect during it, but some of the talk about how impossible it is to perform well seems a little overdone. At minimum, I think the same criticisms apply with equal force to the other "amateur nights" such as NYE and VDay, when restaurants charge more and not less.

[Josh Radigan]

I am in no way bashing the concept of restaurant week, but another way to see it is this way. One makes the point of restaurants being busier than usual at the bookend times, meaning 530-6PM and 930-10PM, and saying that the volume is difficult to produce at the respected level. But, aren't restaurants open regulary at 530PM till 10PM? Are restaurantuers only expecting during regular business weeks to be busy at 730-8PM. Don't restaurantuers want to be busy all the time, not just one turn and done? So, why the excuses? Why do restaurants feel the need to explain their lack of performance based on being busy at times they normally don't expect to be busy? isn't that the same as if you went shopping around the holiday season and walked into a store and it was busy and the retail employee turned and said "hey sorry for the delay or lack of service, its the holiday's and we just aren't used to being busy." Restaurants know when RW week is, I used to work it all the time and guess what my bosses used to tell me "Staff up or sink with the ship."

[Walrus]

I am in no way bashing the concept of restaurant week, but another way to see it is this way. One makes the point of restaurants being busier than usual at the bookend times, meaning 530-6PM and 930-10PM, and saying that the volume is difficult to produce at the respected level. But, aren't restaurants open regulary at 530PM till 10PM? Are restaurantuers only expecting during regular business weeks to be busy at 730-8PM. Don't restaurantuers want to be busy all the time, not just one turn and done? So, why the excuses? Why do restaurants feel the need to explain their lack of performance based on being busy at times they normally don't expect to be busy? isn't that the same as if you went shopping around the holiday season and walked into a store and it was busy and the retail employee turned and said "hey sorry for the delay or lack of service, its the holiday's and we just aren't used to being busy." Restaurants know when RW week is, I used to work it all the time and guess what my bosses used to tell me "Staff up or sink with the ship."

But to take your own point, if you walk into Nordstrom's at 6 pm any workday the week before Christmas, don't you expect it to be a little more difficult and a little less enjoyable then shopping, say, at 3 pm on a random Saturday in April? Yes, stores -- and restaurants -- can and do prepare for busy times. But there is a finite level of preparedness that anyone can achieve. In a regular office job, do you really, honestly, expect the same quality and enthusiasm from someone at 7 pm on a Friday night as you would at 11 am on a Tuesday??? I can't imagine meeting those standards at any job in any industry.

[Walrus]

I definitely hear what you are saying (indeed my RW participation, which was once huge, is now de minimis), but didn't Dean say earlier that Fri & Sat nights are about the same volume as usual? Why is RW SO much harder than an average weekend night? Slammed restaurants are rarely at their best, but aren't a lot of the better spots in town pretty well full on Fri/Sat nights as is? A quick opentable search for next Friday suggests that Central, Proof, Westend and the Source are all already unable to take a party of 4 after 6pm. Again, not defending RW as perfect or suggesting that things should be perfect during it, but some of the talk about how impossible it is to perform well seems a little overdone. At minimum, I think the same criticisms apply with equal force to the other "amateur nights" such as NYE and VDay, when restaurants charge more and not less.

Sorry to keep going on about this, but yes -- "the same criticisms apply with equal force to the other "amateur nights" such as NYE and VDay, when restaurants charge more and not less." So why do some people seem to expect specialty service and food for mass dining events? And for even less money than normal -- not more!

I stick to my opinion -- there is a limit to what anyone can do to be prepared for a difficult, often unpleasant, and dull/repetitive week, in any industry. The restaurants and their staff members do the best they can. If you want the full restaurant experience, don't eat at a place during Restaurant Week. If you want the budget experience, do. And there's nothing wrong with someone wanting a budget experience -- just be prepared to accept that this is what you're buying. When I eat at Eammon's I don't expect Eve, the same way if I ate at KFC I wouldn't expect Eammon's.

[Walrus]

Is this a record -- three posts in a row (and yet still only a lowly ventworm)?!

It just occurred to me that the strong differences in opinion -- seen here, on Tom's chat, and I'm sure anywhere else that foodies congregate -- may have to do with people's interpretations of what RW offers.

I think restaurants during RW offer a lower-priced meal. Others may see it as a discounted meal. I think this difference is key.

If I were expecting to get a discount on a really expensive meal and then the meal wasn't very good, I wouldn't be that impressed with the restaurant or inclined to return (e.g., the DR.com meal we had at Galileo persuaded me that I was missing nothing by not going there). If, on the other hand, I'm expecting a lower-priced meal at a restaurant, my expectations would be on par with the prices being asked for the meal. In my opinion, there's a reason that something costs, say, $100, and if I purchase the cheaper version of the item for $30, I'm not going to expect it to be of the same quality as the $100 item. Hence my not being upset when the stitching unravels on my Old Navy t-shirt, but being pretty unhappy when the buttons fall off my expensive, designer coat.

Does that make sense?

[Tweaked]

Does that make sense?

No...

if you are buying Old Navy versus Banana Republic (both owned by the same company), I would expect better quality out of Banana Republic. If BR is having a sale then I still expect BR quality.

Idealy, a restaurant that participates in RW should strive to produce food with the same quality and care as it strives for the other 50 weeks of the year. Just because they are offering a RW "special menu" at prices below what they normally charge should they just mail it in during RW?

Now I realize that at some restaurants, esp. the high end restaurants, they might use less luxurious ingredients during RW, for example, Corduroy doing a confit of chicken v. confit of duck, but I expect Tom Power to cook with the same skill and care. RW provides me a snap shot of what Corduroy is about as a restaurant and if I like it, then hopefully I'll go back.

Contrast that with DC Coast last night, where the pumpkin soup was flavorless and had the consistency of dish water. I might forgive a kitchen at prime time during RW if my steak comes out medium instead of medium rare, they are probably slammed, but soup...clearly something that is not made a la minute...flavorless and dish watery soup tells me the kitchen can't make soup!

[Walrus]

See that's where I disagree. I don't think that any kitchen, under the rare and awesome pressures of Restaurant Week, can be expected to put out work with the same care and quality of the work that they put out during a regular week. I agree that some restaurants accomplish amazing things during RW -- I just don't think you should go in expecting it to be amazing.

If I'm planning to pay $30 for a meal, I would expect that meal to be worth $30. I would be very happy indeed if it turned out to be worth $60 or $100, and I would be unhappy if it were worth $15. But my expectation is for a $30 meal.

It's just not the same to me as buying merchandise on sale. If I went in with a 50% off coupon, I would expect the meal to be worth the provided price, but the same way you don't get the best stuff in the Banana Republic sale bin, I wouldn't expect to get the best stuff during RW. Again, not saying it doesn't happen -- just saying it shouldn't be expected (demanded?) to happen.

But, I'm happy to agree to disagree and let this all go

[Waitman]

See that's where I disagree. I don't think that any kitchen, under the rare and awesome pressures of Restaurant Week, can be expected to put out work with the same care and quality of the work that they put out during a regular week. I agree that some restaurants accomplish amazing things during RW -- I just don't think you should go in expecting it to be amazing.

If I'm planning to pay $30 for a meal, I would expect that meal to be worth $30. I would be very happy indeed if it turned out to be worth $60 or $100, and I would be unhappy if it were worth $15. But my expectation is for a $30 meal.

It's just not the same to me as buying merchandise on sale. If I went in with a 50% off coupon, I would expect the meal to be worth the provided price, but the same way you don't get the best stuff in the Banana Republic sale bin, I wouldn't expect to get the best stuff during RW. Again, not saying it doesn't happen -- just saying it shouldn't be expected (demanded?) to happen.

But, I'm happy to agree to disagree and let this all go

I'm not sure if I agree or not. Restaurant Week is supposed to be something of a "special." The clear implication is that your $30 meal is worth more than $30. Otherwise there's no point, is there? Because you can get a $30 meal for $30, under less trying conditions, any time.

[Walrus]

I'm not sure if I agree or not. Restaurant Week is supposed to be something of a "special." The clear implication is that your $30 meal is worth more than $30. Otherwise there's no point, is there? Because you can get a $30 meal for $30, under less trying conditions, any time.

That's a really good point.

However, I'd argue that in many of the restaurants, on a normal week, you wouldn't be able to buy three courses for $30. So there's implicit value, but I still don't know that I'd expect the same quality of food/service/etc. on a night during RW that I would during regular service. I'd be thrilled to receive it, but the expectation just wouldn't be there. So if I got a $30 meal, I'd be ok with that. If I didn't think it was worth the $30 (dishwasher soup?!), I wouldn't. If it was worth more than $30, then I'd feel that I was ahead

There's a reason I don't play the RW game. It seems like an awful lot of work for a $30 meal. I'd rather save my lunch money and go out for what I know will be a fabulous meal once a month than have 5 rolls of the die with the millions of other gamblers out there, all searching for the dream restaurant: a place that despite the demands of the week has it going on all cylinders the night I'm there and offers me a $100 experience for $30.08.

It's all luck. Good restaurants have bad nights, bad restaurants have good ones. I would hope that, the same way most of us wouldn't eliminate a restaurant based on one bad experience, people wouldn't eliminate a restaurant because of RW.

I hope Don (and the rest of the Rockweilers) don't mind continuing this discussion -- I certainly didn't intend to monopolize the conversation! But I think it's a really interesting topic!

[DonRocks]

I hope Don (and the rest of the Rockweilers) don't mind continuing this discussion

[That's what the thread's here for!]

[DanielK]

I would hope that, the same way most of us wouldn't eliminate a restaurant based on one bad experience, people wouldn't eliminate a restaurant because of RW.

I think that most of the people who are taking advantage of RW are not food board people - they're infrequent fine diners, who are taking advantage of a semi-annual sale. I think most of them ARE expecting the $40 or $50 experience for $30. Whether it's a reasonable expectation or not is immaterial - it's the reality that restauranteurs have to deal with.

If a restaurant is willing to participate, they should be thinking of the long-term implications, not the balance sheet for that week. If they serve a $30 meal for $30, most people will walk away thinking "that was nice, but do I want to come back next month and spend $50 for the same meal?" No repeat diners there, so the restaurant made their $1 profit and that's the end.

Converting those people to regular diners has to be the goal for participating. So you present the $40 or $50 experience, break even on the week, and expect that next month you'll have a couple more regulars.

[dcs]

See that's where I disagree. I don't think that any kitchen, under the rare and awesome pressures of Restaurant Week, can be expected to put out work with the same care and quality of the work that they put out during a regular week. I agree that some restaurants accomplish amazing things during RW -- I just don't think you should go in expecting it to be amazing.

I don't understand. How does/can a chef "lay back" during RW and not cook on par with his/her usual ability? Most of these places, the good ones at least, are probably not dramatically more busy than usual. Couple that with a more limited RW menu and this should be like rolling off a log.

[Dave Pressley]

See that's where I disagree. I don't think that any kitchen, under the rare and awesome pressures of Restaurant Week, can be expected to put out work with the same care and quality of the work that they put out during a regular week.

I would disagree with this particular point. During a normal week, a restaurant has XX appetizers, XX entrees and XX desserts, then they get the opportunity to pare down their menu for the RW menu. That's much easier to do quality control! You're reducing your menu by some fraction and probably doing more Winter food large batch cooking (hearty soups, root vegetable purees, braised meats, etc.) so pickups are quicker and tables are turned faster. When you do large batch cooking compared to "a la minute", the chef and sous chefs should have their hands on everything so the food tastes spot on (if it doesn't taste great at that point, that's a different story). Maybe a large problem is that some chefs and restaurant operators out there aren't putting enough passion and brain power into proper menu planning and thinking about the ease of execution during RW? Line cooks just get put in the position of just having to cook the same pieces of meat, fish, pasta, etc., but just at a lot faster pace. Servers are just simply given the same sections (that are now full during each turn) and are pressured by management to ramp up service to a nearly impossible speed. That's when things get messy!

At the end of the day though, a restaurant can only get SO slammed because they only have X tables and the ability to turn them Y times. They should be doing simple math to figure out if their kitchen and waitstaff can handle the load, then write the menu and staff the house accordingly, both in the kitchen and on the dining room floor. Otherwise, they should save themselves the cost (monetarily and loss of return guests) and not participate.

[Dark Wing]

I don't understand. How does/can a chef "lay back" during RW and not cook on par with his/her usual ability? Most of these places, the good ones at least, are probably not dramatically more busy than usual. Couple that with a more limited RW menu and this should be like rolling off a log.

Because they're barely recovering from lunch, and then they start getting slammed again at 6 PM. By the time nine o'clock rolls around, when they're usually winding down from their one big dinner crush, they're gearing up for yet another onslaught. Try masturbating twice in the afternoon, then having sex three times later that night, and you'll see what the problem is.

[dcs]

Because they're barely recovering from lunch, and then they start getting slammed again at 6 PM. By the time nine o'clock rolls around, when they're usually winding down from their one big dinner crush, they're gearing up for yet another onslaught. Try masturbating twice in the afternoon, then having sex three times later that night, and you'll see what the problem is.

OK. I'm in.

[dcs]

Funny thing, and I am not sure this is related. I just got back from visiting with H&R Block, and they told me that my taxes this year would not be prepared with the usual care and exactitude because so many people we seeking the same service at the same low price at the same time.

[Heather]

Because they're barely recovering from lunch, and then they start getting slammed again at 6 PM. By the time nine o'clock rolls around, when they're usually winding down from their one big dinner crush, they're gearing up for yet another onslaught. Try masturbating twice in the afternoon, then having sex three times later that night, and you'll see what the problem is.

And it better be as good the third time as it was the first...

[Banco]

Because they're barely recovering from lunch, and then they start getting slammed again at 6 PM. By the time nine o'clock rolls around, when they're usually winding down from their one big dinner crush, they're gearing up for yet another onslaught. Try masturbating twice in the afternoon, then having sex three times later that night, and you'll see what the problem is.

Sorry, I do that often and I just don't see the problem.

[Walrus]

I would disagree with this particular point. During a normal week, a restaurant has XX appetizers, XX entrees and XX desserts, then they get the opportunity to pare down their menu for the RW menu. That's much easier to do quality control! You're reducing your menu by some fraction and probably doing more Winter food large batch cooking (hearty soups, root vegetable purees, braised meats, etc.) so pickups are quicker and tables are turned faster. When you do large batch cooking compared to "a la minute", the chef and sous chefs should have their hands on everything so the food tastes spot on (if it doesn't taste great at that point, that's a different story). Maybe a large problem is that some chefs and restaurant operators out there aren't putting enough passion and brain power into proper menu planning and thinking about the ease of execution during RW? Line cooks just get put in the position of just having to cook the same pieces of meat, fish, pasta, etc., but just at a lot faster pace. Servers are just simply given the same sections (that are now full during each turn) and are pressured by management to ramp up service to a nearly impossible speed. That's when things get messy!

At the end of the day though, a restaurant can only get SO slammed because they only have X tables and the ability to turn them Y times. They should be doing simple math to figure out if their kitchen and waitstaff can handle the load, then write the menu and staff the house accordingly, both in the kitchen and on the dining room floor. Otherwise, they should save themselves the cost (monetarily and loss of return guests) and not participate.

I really like your post. My only thought it, when was the last time any of us had batch food that was as refined and elegant as a la minute cuisine? Wouldn't you be disappointed if you ate at Citronelle and got a serving from a pan of lasagne being kept warm rather than your own, carefully prepared dish? Soup aside, of course!

I agree with your thoughts about line cooks and servers. It was also pointed out to me last night that perhaps the restaurants that have the most trouble are simply overbooking, and that an easy solution is to just accept fewer reservations. Of course, RW is hardly a bank-busting money-maker as it is, so maybe they're just trying to scrape a profit out of the week.

I think that any restaurant that does RW should seriously consider where the balance needs to be between immediate profits and earning future business and to cut the as closely as possible to making less profit now for the possibility of greater gains with return business after RW. (This would mean, in my opinion, taking on only as many people as the staff can comfortably handle and making the menu as interesting yet simple for the kitchen as possible.)

In return, the diners should think about what their expectations are and try to bring them into line with the realm of reality. Maybe it would help if they all saw the RW menu contrasted with the regular menu? So they can feel good about getting a bargain but at the same time see what glories they could expect if they returned when it wasn't RW?

[Walrus]

Funny thing, and I am not sure this is related. I just got back from visiting with H&R Block, and they told me that my taxes this year would not be prepared with the usual care and exactitude because so many people we seeking the same service at the same low price at the same time.

Ha ha! But as I'm sure you know, a completely separate situation. The entire tax industry spends every year preparing for one or two months. Do you suggest that restaurants do the same? I much prefer the results when kitchens and chefs and FOH staff are allowed room for creativity and complexity throughout the year!

[deangold]

Just a recap of last night at Dino from an inside perspective...

I just spent an hour looking at our sales last night and this week in general to gain perspective of what RW does for us. Here is the result of my efforts regarding last night:

Best Friday cover count since August 10, last RW

Best dollar Friday since last January 19 (the Friday after RW but during the extension) about 33% over average

Number of no show reservations: 10 accounting for 26 covers. Normal for a Friday night is 1-3 no show reservations.

Number of cancellations made on Friday - 6 accounting for 24 covers. 3 of them were made after 6pm

Number of reservations showing up 15 or more minutes late - too numerous to count: at least 15 reservations

Number of reservations who had to wait more than 15 minutes for their reservation: 5 or so, all caused by the no show problems early in the night.

Number of reservations who had to wait more than 30 minutes: 2 caused by my mis-estimating the number of "campers" we would have.

Number of walk ins accommodated 34, a little low for a Friday night but a goodly number given the fully booked situation we started out with.

Number of additional walk ins we could have accommodated if all the no shows had called and all the late reservations had shown up on time: 20 or so, we had at least that many inquire and then decide not to wait.

Number of regulars in last night: 2 tables of frequent regulars, 4 tables of infrequent regulars out of 65 tables sat. Typically these two categories would make up 20-25-30% of our tables.

Dollar average per customer: well above average, almost 10% higher than usual. This cannot be accounted for thru alcohol sales as they were fairly normal or just a little bit higher than normal. I did see some tables add an extra dish to their RW experience. Also we sold a huge number of Bistecca (We sold last night what we thought we would sell for the entire weekend!!!) which carries an upcharge, but again this and the alcohol only account for about half of the increase of per customer sales. Needs to be analyzed more thoroughly! Could be that we had virtually no "snackers"- folks who come in for a cheese plate or an app and a glass of wine, usually early and late.

FWIW

[Dave Pressley]

Wouldn't you be disappointed if you ate at Citronelle and got a serving from a pan of lasagne being kept warm rather than your own, carefully prepared dish? Soup aside, of course!

I doubt it. I bet Michel Richard could probably put out the world's best lasagna if he wanted to. I was hinting that more restaurant should take advantage of those cooking techniques to make their menus easier to work with--not to make the entire menu from them. Of course, a la minute cooking is necessary to have a complete menu. Otherwise, you'd end up with a menu more suitable to a retirement home.

I think that any restaurant that does RW should seriously consider where the balance needs to be between immediate profits and earning future business

Absolutely agree with you there.

[gourmetgrazer]

Dollar average per customer: well above average, almost 10% higher than usual. This cannot be accounted for thru alcohol sales as they were fairly normal or just a little bit higher than normal.

The simple quetsion is, "what is the average per person check at Dino outrside of RW?" if it is less than 30.08, you are obviously going to do better. Moderately priced restaurants are going to see less of a drop in margin than more expensive ones. It's the restaurants choice to participate, and I would expect that they would deliver the same level of quality and service regardless of RW.

H&R Block is kind of like the Olive Garden of Tax Preparation so the analagy doesn't hold water.

[deangold]

The simple quetsion is, "what is the average per person check at Dino outrside of RW?"

I am not sure if I made this clear in the OP. It is 10% higher than our normal RW check average. Our normal RW check average goes up over a non RW week,but not enough to offset the increased RW food cost (same menu, lower retail, higher food cost). So it is only the increase in numbers and revenue that makes RW so profitable for us.

[Anonymouze]

We went to a restaurant yesterday for restaurant week with my father. They offered at noon yesterday lunch which is normally 27.00 pp on avg 30.00 and offered for that 3.00 more to add a crabcake (which already comes with your meal) or soup or a dip appetizer and a glass of wine, or beer or alcohol free drink. For me personally that would not be worth 3.00 more since you get drinks with free refilles for 1.50 and I'm not into alcohol. The food was neither here or there, nothing special but my father was visiting and we wanted to take him to DC to the harbor area by Jefferson memorial to pick up some stuff. (He picked up some hot crab bisque 2 large containers to take home to NJ - there's a great place for that there!)

If there are any good restaurant week places out in VA please feel free to pop me a note. I'm not into the hassle of parking in DC.

[deangold]

There's nothing worse than someone pointing out a problem without offering a solution. So I'm proposing a "Restaurant Week In Perpetuity" thread, detailing self-composed three-course dinners that can be enjoyed for $30 or less, week-in and week-out.

Cheers,

Rocks.

Dino is going to offer Restaurant Week every Monday and Tuesday starting in February. We will extend this offer for 90 days and see how it is recieved. This will replace the Menu della Sera. The deal is just like RW- 3 courses with some upcharges. More details to follow!

[Heather]

If there are any good restaurant week places out in VA please feel free to pop me a note. I'm not into the hassle of parking in DC.

Does Virginia do a Restaurant Week?

[DonRocks]

I got permission to repost this PM to me ANONYMOUSLY - it was written by a casual acquaintance whom I contacted, asking his thoughts about Restaurant Week. I laughed out loud at this for ten minutes:

its not that it was bad; we, the staff did a great job. it's that insetual ass hole fuck wad mother fucking cock sucker prick that doesnt show for their reservation, and then posts bad fucking comments about the restaurant that he/she frequents once a year or two that burn my ass and chafe my balls

other than that it was a lovely restaurant week

[monavano]

Does Virginia do a Restaurant Week?

From what I gather, NoVa is lumped in with DC RW. Other regions such as Richmond have a separate RW.

Farrah Olivia- January 31

Jaleo- January 27

Domaso Trattoria- through January

Willow-January 22-26

[collije]

Dino is going to offer Restaurant Week every Monday and Tuesday starting in February. We will extend this offer for 90 days and see how it is recieved. This will replace the Menu della Sera. The deal is just like RW- 3 courses with some upcharges. More details to follow!

That's a nice offer Dean, hope this one sticks!

[Nadya]

I got permission to repost this PM to me ANONYMOUSLY - it was written by a casual acquaintance whom I contacted, asking his thoughts about Restaurant Week. I laughed out loud at this for ten minutes:

And that's the reason some of us are freaking DELIRIOUS to be done with this, from both sides, done, jamais de ma vie, khalas!