Tom Sietsema's Online Chat

[JPW]

I lived about 5 blocks from it for 3 years before I found out it was there.  It's really hidden on a side street.

Where exactly?

[cjsadler]

Where exactly?

If you're coming from DC, it will be on the left hand side of Wisconsin, about a block before you hit Bethesda Ave. You'd never notice it driving down Wisconsin, though. It's almost an alley. There's also a wine shop next door-- I don't know how they do any business.

Edited November 2, 2005 by cjsadler

[JPW]

If you're coming from DC, it will be on the left hand side of Wisconsin, about a block before you hit Bethesda Ave.  You'd never notice it driving down Wisconsin, though.  It's almost an alley.  There's also a wine shop next door-- I don't know how they do any business.

Wow, I spent about 2 years going to the trader joe's across the street every saturday, and I never saww it.

[Venerable Bede]

i guess the one that annoyed me today was the guy posting from alexandria who wanted to go to a steakhouse in tyson's, but not to one "downtown," including the ray's downtown. i didn't know there was a ray's outpost in downtown.

[FunnyJohn]

i guess the one that annoyed me today was the guy posting from alexandria who wanted to go to a steakhouse in tyson's, but not to one "downtown," including the ray's downtown.  i didn't know there was a ray's outpost in downtown.

I think that, in this case since the poster was from Northern VA, "downtown" referred to Rosslyn. We NOVAingians are a farily provincial lot Edited November 3, 2005 by FunnyJohn

[DonRocks]

The November 9th chat.

[Capital Icebox]

Warren Brown speaks!

"Under this renewed initiative to serve no cake before its time, we made palm cards in the spirit of a cautionary road sign. It features a person with a cake, a thermometer at 72 degrees, and the phrase "serve cake @ room temp". I hope people find it cute as well as informative.

Best Regards,

Warren Brown

CakeLove/Love Cafe

"Sugar Rush" on Food Network @ 9:30pm EST/8:30 CST "

Don't you get it, people? It's YOUR fault my cakes taste all dry and lardy, not mine! You simply don't serve them right! We sell them refrigerated in the Cafe but you are supposed to wait 15 minutes before eating it, fool! They'll be 10,000 times better!

Ugh.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Capital Icebox

[dinwiddie]

The BYOB flap at Corduroy made Tom's chat today

"Washington, D.C.: Hi, Tom. Did you hear what happened at Corduroy last week with the customer who refused to pay corkage fees for all his bottles of wine? He was told that the restaurant allowed a maximum of three bottles, but he opened up 7 bottles anyway! Then when the restaurant tried to charge him for all 7 -- with an additional charge for the extra 4 bottles -- he refused to pay for more than 3. Do you think the restaurant was being unreasonable, or that the customer was acting disrespectful?

Tom Sietsema: I don't have all the details, but customers who bring in their own wine (after verifying corkage fees and policies, of course) need to play by the restaurant's rules. I've heard from more than one restaurateur about customers who abuse the privilege, bringing in an outrageous number of their own bottles, not buying aything from the restaurant's list and demanding the best crystal for the occasion. Give some people an inch, they take 10 miles! "

[Jonathan]

i feel bad for him, on one hand, because he is getting attacked, but on the other hand, i don't think he toiled away like many of the best bakers and pastry chefs in this country have....and he has in my opinion unfairly been handed a stint on oprah, people magazine and now a show on the food network.

its like he is bourdain without the attitude. lots of style but little substance. a celebrity but not a chef.

[jm chen]

Fascinating chat. After reading many opinions on the "why don't I get great service if I only order an entree" controversy -- including the one from the (same?) person who gets the vapors when someone else suggests they consider eating at the bar -- I'm starting to wonder what the original questioner expects. What is "good service" other than checking in to see what you want, getting it for you, and asking you if you like it? (And resolving problems if there are any, of course.) If you're only getting one thing, then a good waiter isn't going to stop by your table as often as he would if you were ordering three things, right?

Just something that occurred to me after all the brouhaha came to an end.

[Meaghan]

Warren Brown speaks! 

"Under this renewed initiative to serve no cake before its time, we made palm cards in the spirit of a cautionary road sign. It features a person with a cake, a thermometer at 72 degrees, and the phrase "serve cake @ room temp". I hope people find it cute as well as informative.

Best Regards,

Warren Brown

CakeLove/Love Cafe

"Sugar Rush" on Food Network @ 9:30pm EST/8:30 CST "

Don't you get it, people?  It's YOUR fault my cakes taste all dry and lardy, not mine!  You simply don't serve them right!  We sell them refrigerated in the Cafe but you are supposed to wait 15 minutes before eating it, fool!  They'll be 10,000 times better! 

Ugh.

Brown's CV

In Washington, people get as much attention for what they did in their previous career as they do in their present one. I'm telling you, if I worked for Human Rights Watch in Darfur and then opened a bistro on 16th Street, I'd do really really well. If I worked as Condi Rice's press scty and then opened a pub, all the same...

[giant shrimp]

i feel bad for him, on one hand, because he is getting attacked, but on the other hand, i don't think he toiled away like many of the best bakers and pastry chefs in this country have....and he has in my opinion unfairly been handed a stint on oprah, people magazine and now a show on the food network.

its like he is bourdain without the attitude. lots of style but little substance. a celebrity but not a chef.

warren brown seems capable of taking care of himself and doesn't need anybody's sympathy. i don't know what he did to get where he is on television, but i wouldn't say his appearances are any more unfair than for the majority of the other people on these shows. as a faithful watcher of two episodes of sweet tooth, or whatever it's called, i will say that the emphasis is decidedly on cakes that show well and cost a lot -- fantasy fare. supposedly, taste is the prime criterion, but it doesn't really make any difference when you are watching it on television. as for his cooking instructions on the show, they are pretty dumbed down and they function basically as a binder for the flashier segments. it's hard to tell whether he knows how to bake or not, but when he is visiting other people's kitchens, he is usually inept in learning new things, maybe for comic relief.

Edited November 9, 2005 by giant shrimp

[Jonathan]

I believe tonight's episode will feature Ann Amernick with Warren Brown as they discuss Pastiage.

[jm chen]

Ooh, Amernick. I'll have to catch that one.

The episode I saw had him running around with some crazy guy in Baltimore who put fireworks in his cake. Yes, operational fireworks. Apparently the cake was quite warm afterward.

[DonRocks]

The episode I saw had him running around with some crazy guy in Baltimore who put fireworks in his cake. Yes, operational fireworks. Apparently the cake was quite warm afterward.

Glad he was a baker and not a proctologist.

[monavano]

That would bring new meaning to the phrase "Fire in the hole!".

[MissCindy]

Ooh, Amernick. I'll have to catch that one.

The episode I saw had him running around with some crazy guy in Baltimore who put fireworks in his cake. Yes, operational fireworks. Apparently the cake was quite warm afterward.

Curious to know who the crazy guy is...my guess is Duff Goldman of Charm City Cakes. His cakes are never dull.

[qwertyy]

Curious to know who the crazy guy is...my guess is Duff Goldman of Charm City Cakes.  His cakes are never dull.

I don't remember his name, but he did my friends' wedding cake--it was indeed delish and GORGEOUS (in a very interesting, not-even-a-little-traditional way).

[giant shrimp]

tabard inn seems to be making a comeback in terms of good press in recent weeks and todd kliman yesterday even suggested that you can find bargains there, which is a bit misleading. mihn's has been popping up often as well.

but how about obelisk? back from the dead? we couldn't get a reservation last weekend, and we can't get one this weekend. i haven't forgotten how small it is, but is it really worth planning ahead to find out what's going on there these days, especially when we can walk to two amys in five minutes?

Edited November 9, 2005 by giant shrimp

[Michael Landrum]

Brown's CV

In Washington, people get as much attention for what they did in their previous career as they do in their present one.  I'm telling you, if I worked for Human Rights Watch in Darfur and then opened a bistro on 16th Street, I'd do really really well.  If I worked as Condi Rice's press scty and then opened a pub, all the same...

I have always wondered why more mention has not been made of my brief but eye-popping stint as the "Grill Cook" in the Village People. (I was fired immediately after the ill-fated Philadelphia concert that coincided with the mass lynching-by-fire of the MOVE organization and its children by the Philadelphia PD).

[JPW]

I have always wondered why more mention has not been made of my brief but eye-popping stint as the "Grill Cook" in the Village People.  (I was fired immediately after the ill-fated Philadelphia concert that coincided with the mass lynching-by-fire of the MOVE organization and its children by the Philadelphia PD).

Because there are some things better left unmentioned, Michael.

[Michael Landrum]

Because there are some things better left unmentioned, Michael.

So I shouldn't post the pictures?

[monavano]

Not to venture too far from food, and other incendiary topics, but....what's even sadder is that Goode was re-elected. Good ol' Wilson. Those were the days.

[JPW]

So I shouldn't post the pictures?

Please, NO.

Think of the children, man! Think of the children!

[DonRocks]

[back on topic!

Love,

mom.]

[monavano]

OK

So...who was that snob from SF? "Oh me oh my, I simply can't find a worth restaurant in DC"

Sheesh.

[ustreetguy]

OK

So...who was that snob from SF?  "Oh me oh my, I simply can't find a worth restaurant in DC"

Sheesh.

I was wondering the same thing. But if you notice, the poster's location was San Diego, California. I wonder if the poster recently moved to San Diego from San Francisco and was wondering if Tom new any good restaurants in San Diego.

Of course you're probably right ... the person was probably just a snob.

[Sthitch]

I was wondering the same thing.  But if you notice, the poster's location was San Diego, California.  I wonder if the poster recently moved to San Diego from San Francisco and was wondering if Tom new any good restaurants in San Diego. 

Of course you're probably right ... the person was probably just a snob.

When I see the San Francisco exPats complain about not being able to find comparable food, I have to wonder why these people left "paradise".

[tastedc]

From Sugar Rush on the Foodtv.com website

Go wild with Duff Goldman as he makes a canon cake,

- Not to toot my own horn, but I introduced Warren Brown to Duff Goldman at an event I held at the French Embassy - it was called the Marie Antoinette "Let Them Eat Cake Competition" and about 1,000 people devoured all of their cakes!!

Good, bad, indifferent, Warren is supporting ALOT of local pastry chefs by putting them on his show like Duff, ?Palena? (website is listed in 1 of his programs), Marriott Wardman, Windows Catering, and who knows how many others, the website won't list them until the show has been aired. So ultimately, Warren has boosted the DC pastry industry - Hoorah!

[giant shrimp]

if they were selling duff cakes on u street i'd be down there in a flash and nobody would be worried about warming them up.

here is the tour: http://www.charmcitycakes.com/

i wonder if there are any secret ingredients in the hidee-ho cake.

Edited November 9, 2005 by giant shrimp

[Spiral Stairs]

I was wondering the same thing.  But if you notice, the poster's location was San Diego, California.  I wonder if the poster recently moved to San Diego from San Francisco and was wondering if Tom new any good restaurants in San Diego.

In context, I think that's exactly what happened, and Tom misconstrued the question. (Not to say there isn't a lot of restaurant snobbery emanating from former Bay Area-ers.)

Having misconstrued it the way he did, I can't believe Tom actually published a question he believed to be asking simply "Do you know of any good restaurants in DC?"

[RissaP]

Diners who order minimal should have the option to dine in the dining room or bar. And certainly do not deserve to receive less attention.

[Banco]

Diners who order minimal should have the option to dine in the dining room or bar. And certainly do not deserve to receive less attention.

Agreed. I've always thought that one of the surest tests of the quality of a restaurant's service is how it treats the solitary diner.

[giant shrimp]

Diners who order minimal should have the option to dine in the dining room or bar. And certainly do not deserve to receive less attention.

within reason. what kind of attention would two people receive who came in and asked to split a salad nicoise with glasses of water? just curious, i'm always a lot hungrier than that but even if i weren't i would be afraid to try it.

[starfish]

Diners who order minimal should have the option to dine in the dining room or bar. And certainly do not deserve to receive less attention.

i could not agree more. the standard of service should apply to all people irrespective of amount ordered, age, race, gender, et. al.

throughout this discussion one thing has bothered me a bit. there seens to be an implication that a restaurant's bar is some sort of culinary purgatory where one spends only as much time as required before ascending to a table. for most good restaurants, the bar is a destination unto itself and not a place to which one is "relegated". i personally prefer to dine at the bar.

[Waitman]

within reason. what kind of attention would two people receive who came in and asked to split a salad nicoise with glasses of water? just curious, i'm always a lot hungrier than that but even if i weren't i would be afraid to try it.

Not the same kind of attention that you'd get if you ordered two three-course meals and a bottle of Chambertin, that's for sure.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Waitman

[Ferhat Yalcin]

Diners who order minimal should have the option to dine in the dining room or bar. And certainly do not deserve to receive less attention.

Everyone is equal...so is the service.

[jm chen]

there seens to be an implication that a restaurant's bar is some sort of culinary purgatory where one spends only as much time as required before ascending to a table.  for most good restaurants, the bar is a destination unto itself and not a place to which one is "relegated".  i personally prefer to dine at the bar.

I am a convert to this kind of dining as well, both as a lone diner and with a companion. Your server is always at hand, you can socialize or not, and the atmosphere is generally cheerful. The ranter from the chat didn't merely imply the opposite, she regarded it as insulting that someone would suggest bar dining. She doesn't know what she's missing, IMO.

eat at the BAR?! : Oh goodness. That is so rude! Why should people be forsaken to the bar or a "less fancy" restaurant just because their bill may be less than $200? I LOVE getting dressed up and having a lovely meal at a fancy place now and again, and enjoy the atmosphere with my S.O....AT A TABLE. Who is this rude person to say what I can or cannot order in order to get decent service? Honestly people, grow up and DO YOUR JOBS.

Are bars in Atlanta not as welcoming, comfortable, and engaging as bars in DC?

[Edited to reflect the fact that she is clearly a she and therefore I need not step so carefully with the awkward he/she construction.]

Edited November 9, 2005 by jm chen

[DC in DC]

Of course the ideal is that everyone should receive the same service. However, I've certainly been to places where I've been made to feel kind of "cheap" for not ordering wine or appetizers, etc. (Others on Tom's chat have made similar comments on not ordering wine.) Comments like, "would you like to have anything to start with" after the table has already ordered, or "no wine tonight?"/ "nothing to drink tonight?" etc. Maybe it's my own self-consciousness back from our salad days, and others with thicker skin wouldn't take offense. These days, if we go out and are not having a full-out 3-course + wine meal, and I feel like we've been slighted, I just make a mental note not to come back when I do want to have that kind of dinner. Of course, as others have pointed out, from an economics point of view, the server needs to maximize his or her take-home-pay, so I shouldn't punish the restaurant for that.

[Banco]

i could not agree more.  the standard of service should apply to all people irrespective of amount ordered, age, race, gender, et. al.

throughout this discussion one thing has bothered me a bit.  there seens to be an implication that a restaurant's bar is some sort of culinary purgatory where one spends only as much time as required before ascending to a table.  for most good restaurants, the bar is a destination unto itself and not a place to which one is "relegated".  i personally prefer to dine at the bar.

When I'm alone I usually prefer to eat at the bar anyway, and though a restaurant should treat the solo diner as well as it would two or more people, I see no need to reduce a restaurant's business by taking up a whole table for myself, especially as I like to take my time. But not all restaurants have a bar where one can eat comfortably. Montmartre, for example, has little or no bar at all, yet I've always felt welcome there eating alone at a table, even when it's busy. But then the owners are French, and eating alone I think tends to be a more common practice in Europe than it is here, especially in a bistro/pub/osteria setting.

[B.A.R.]

One of the hardest habits to break servers of is the "pre-judging" of tables based on their order. It is a natural inclinition when your earnings are derived solely from tips, and the dollar amount you earn is in direct proportion to the dollar amount of the check. You conciously, or sub-conciously, allocate your time in the most efficient and profitable manner.

Great servers never rarely, if ever, do it. But we all know there is a paucity of great servers.

Most of the people who post here are members of the choir, so it is the industry lurkers out there I guess I am preaching to.

You generally don't know who is at your table. Why they ordered lightly. Why they refrained from wine. Why they are sharing something. I used to joke as a server that people in my section "ate before they came". But they are still in your section. And your responsibility. And you can't trade them away. And treat them just as you would the table drinking '82 Cheval Blanc. You'll be surprised how many times these so-called "undeserving" diners quickly become your best customers.

As far as dining at the bar, I'm all for it. I drink a lot, and would eat behind the bar if I could. But it isn't for everyone. And I don't think the two posters, considering they don't drink, would be comfortable at the bar.

[starfish]

i could not agree more.  the standard of service should apply to all people irrespective of amount ordered, age, race, gender, et. al.

throughout this discussion one thing has bothered me a bit.  there seens to be an implication that a restaurant's bar is some sort of culinary purgatory where one spends only as much time as required before ascending to a table.  for most good restaurants, the bar is a destination unto itself and not a place to which one is "relegated".  i personally prefer to dine at the bar.

while i am pretty sure from the tone of the post

eat at the BAR?! : Oh goodness. That is so rude! Why should people be forsaken to the bar

that she feels the bar is insult. there is another side of this coin that i didn't occur to me until now.

there is a very logical reason for a woman by herself or a small group of women to not wish to be at the bar. unfortunately there are too many predatory men in the world who view women at a bar as targets. i am sure that women at a bar occasionally receive unwanted attention, and that is not something that i would want to interfere with my meal. a quick wit and the aid of a good bartender can usually diffuse even the most boorish of advances, but still...

just another perspective.

[jm chen]

But it isn't for everyone. And I don't think the two posters, considering they don't drink, would be comfortable at the bar.

A good insight, and one I missed before. Might have contributed to the ranting fury.

[qwertyy]

Starfish is quite right. I like to talk to people at bars, but I find all too often that a pleasant chat can turn into an uncomfortable expectation, which is why I often stick to bars where I know the bartender or where the bartenders are attentive to these types of issues...

[LoganCircle]

If dining alone or dining light, I almost always upwardly adjust my tip to account for what I believe to be the income a server loses because of the open chair (or single course) at my table.

In DC this is more of an issue during lunch than at dinner. When you consider that the lunch dining window really only lasts from 11:45 until 2:00 and that servers are likely to get only one turn of the tables, that little bit extra is appreciated. If you're getting a tuna nicoise for $16 and having the $3 iced tea, the server is making considerably less money at your table than at the four-top next to you where each person ordered an $8 glass of wine and the $23 scallops. On a busy day when there is a full turn of a server's section, the lost income from your table might not matter much. But on a slow day, when you have an 14-cover lunch, you better believe it makes a difference. There are a lot of servers who walk away from a lunch shift having made $65.

Believing that a server will treat every patron the same belies the truth that every patron does not reward the server comparably. It is in the server's best interest to maximize her income. What is in the restaurant's best interest, is, of course, quite different. I choose to assuage my guilt by leaving bigger tips or by sitting at the bar. If you don't feel the same way--and there are a lof of people who dont, who will make the arguements that serving single or thrifty diners is "part of the job" or that it "comes with the terrirtory"--then, provided you're not getting inferior service, it's not that big of a deal.

[Waitman]

Everyone is equal...so is the service.

Some service is more equal than others. Would you rather walk into Ray's the Steaks with Jacques Gastreaux or with some unknown off the street?

But, there's nothing wrong with keeping shameless suckups and big spenders -- I mean discerning gourmets -- like Jacques extra happy, as long as even the low-rollers get a professional level of service.

I think, despite the professionalism of servers like Ferhat, though, that the number of servers who can wait on a truly low-rent table with being annoyed at some level is very low.

In re: B.A.R.'s post: My thought was that if the servers are annoyed at the non-drinkers, the bartenders are going to be twice as annoyed.

[mktye]

there is a very logical reason for a woman by herself or a small group of women to not wish to be at the bar.  unfortunately there are too many predatory men in the world who view women at a bar as targets.  i am sure that women at a bar occasionally receive unwanted attention, and that is not something that i would want to interfere with my meal.  a quick wit and the aid of a good bartender can usually diffuse even the most boorish of advances, but still...

Thank you starfish!

When I traveled a lot for work, I would much rather sit by myself at a table for the exact reason outlined above. After dealing with yahoos all day long, all I wanted was a relaxing, quiet dinner without any more hassles.

[dinwiddie]

There are several reasons that I prefer to dine at a table than at the bar, and I'm male. I find the seats at bars to be less comfortable that those at a table, especially if they are high. I don't like smoke around me when I eat (I do smoke occasionally) and in many places, the bar is the only place if any at all where smoking is permitted, so that is where the smokers are. When I dine alone, I often am on business and I can read and work on my blackberry much more easily at a table than at the bar (not that I do a lot of work in restaurants, but occasionally I do) and last, I usually have a better selection of food since many places have less extensive bar menus and while it is possible to order off the restaurant menu, it is a hassle for the folks in the bar.

[JLK]

I was surprised to hear Tom recommend Skewers, mentioning their 2-for-1 entree special. Usually, that's his clue that the place is tanking, he has said before.

[giant shrimp]

I believe tonight's episode will feature Ann Amernick with Warren Brown as they discuss Pastiage.

it's typical of the warren brown program that the emphasis is on the visual at the expense of what's good to eat. ann amernick's mouth-watering desserts were given just a glimpse and described as uncomplicated, or something like that, before moving on to the sugar painting business she has mastered. It was interesting, though, to watch the paint being mixed with gin and the assembly spread out over tables in the back dining room to produce mini-canvases you would want to put on a shelf or hang on a wall. i wonder if anyone in the restaurant has ever bitten into one of these, which would be pretty out-there. warren seemed to be more diligent than usual in his apprentice work, although he has a lot of catching up to do judging from the cake overpopulated with clumsy chocolate butterfly cutouts that ended the show.

in general, the confections on his program typically look hard to eat and last night it was because the sugar was pretending to be glass. smart brides will forego the $8,000 wedding cake for something more reasonable and order porcelain flowers with the savings.