Ericandblueboy Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 I have a couple of questions. What's the difference between lunch and dinner other than the price? What's the difference between the 4 course and tasting menu (how many courses are served with the tasting menu)? lunch vs. dinner. 4 courses vs. tasting. They are closed on July 4th.
LauraB Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 I have a couple of questions. What's the difference between lunch and dinner other than the price? What's the difference between the 4 course and tasting menu (how many courses are served with the tasting menu)? I can't speak to the difference between lunch and dinner, as I've not had lunch there. We did have dinner there last September and we chose the tasting menu. We were served 12 courses, although some were more properly called 'amuses'. We still talk about it with reverence. It was possibly the most incredible dining experience of my life.
bookluvingbabe Posted May 17, 2012 Posted May 17, 2012 I have not been since election night 2008. We did the 4 course menu for dinner. It was one of the single most perfect dining experiences of my life. (Citrus in LA 1996, Provence in DC 1996, Citronelle 2004, the Church in Straford, ON 2001-2008 are the others.) The service was wonderful. The food was great. I think there were drinks though we went out for more drinks later and then champagne at the hotel bar once the results were clear. I haven't been back, It is partially because I don't get to NY much anymore and I can't afford to drop that much money on dinner again. But I'm afraid it won't be as wonderful and I don't want to diminish the memory of a perfect evening.
Ericandblueboy Posted July 7, 2012 Author Posted July 7, 2012 There are so many things going on each dish that I can't focus my attention. We added a duck, which I ordered in advance, and it costs $100 just by itself. Luckily the 4 course lunch was only $75, so it was about $100 per person for lunch. I have photos which I'll post later. I had foie gras, lobster, and lamb. We never got dessert because my cousin had to catch a flight, my brother had a call, and I had dinner reservation at Amada in Revel in Atlantic City. Not saying they are better, but I enjoyed Elisir and Eola more. It's easier to appreciate simple foods for me.
Ericandblueboy Posted July 12, 2012 Author Posted July 12, 2012 I can't really tell you what else is on those plates - some are obvious while others are not. I liked the duck breast, the rest of the duck was was under that foie cream sauce.
DonRocks Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 A Restaurant of Many Stars Raises the Ante This really emphasizes the difference between Chef as Artist (Picasso) and Chef as Craftsman (Jiro). It isn't so much "raising the ante" as it is "changing the rules." The question is, will this be Vladimir Nabokov writing in English, or Michael Jordan playing baseball?
jpbloom Posted October 13, 2013 Posted October 13, 2013 It's a nice position to be in but I've been able to go to a lot of high end (high priced) Michelin starred restaurants in many countries. As a result, in comparing apples to apples and looking at cost, I'm often very critical and destination restaurants, while often excellent, frequently leave me a bit underwhelmed. Friday night's dinner at Eleven Madison Park still has me in awe. With no real choices other than one of two for the main protein and whether you will or won't eat foie gras, you put yourself in the hands of the chef but what hands they are. A couple of days later numerous courses still have me saying wow. The only disappointment was a squash course that was not bad but simply oversold. With two bottles of really nice wine picked from an intense list, the total for two brushed up against $1000 (it would have gone over had the recent price increase kicked in), but even at that price I would dine there again in a second.
B.A.R. Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Has anyone ever been VIP'd at EMP? Did it involve a key? If so, can you detail your experience here?An acquaintance of mine recently had dinner at EMP, and was treated to something very special after his meal. I have asked him to join here and detail the night, and if he does not, I will try and summarize it second-hand. I work in hospitality and have worked in luxury dining and lodging segments. The story he told me was MAGIC.
RWBooneJr Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Here is a description of the typical "VIP" experience (at the end), which is similar to what I remember from a few years ago. What you actually get isn't really any different than the usual dessert service, so I assumed it was a clever way to clear a table. The key thing, which is described here, sounds like something different entirely.
Mark Slater Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Here is a description of the typical "VIP" experience (at the end), which is similar to what I remember from a few years ago. What you actually get isn't really any different than the usual dessert service, so I assumed it was a clever way to clear a table. The key thing, which is described here, sounds like something different entirely. That is so over the top. That must be what "American 3 stars" is all about. You don't find that stuff in Paris. Magic tricks!
Simon Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Sounds like EMP jumped the shark after Danny Meyer sold the restaurant.
Mark Slater Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Sounds like EMP jumped the shark after Danny Meyer sold the restaurant. It all sounds a bit precious.
DonRocks Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Sounds like EMP jumped the shark after Danny Meyer sold the restaurant. This could be, but I went when Meyer *did* own it (this was in 2002 or 2003), and it wasn't anything even resembling a Michelin 3-Star restaurant then. Quite honestly, I think Danny Meyer has jumped the shark (actually, "selling out" and becoming wildly rich and famous is very different than "jumping the shark" and throwing a Hail Mary pass to try and save an institution past its prime, so my terminology is flawed).
B.A.R. Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Here is a description of the typical "VIP" experience (at the end), which is similar to what I remember from a few years ago. What you actually get isn't really any different than the usual dessert service, so I assumed it was a clever way to clear a table. The key thing, which is described here, sounds like something different entirely. The "key thing" on the Trip Advisor review is correct. My friend provided far more detail than is mentioned in the brief review. If I wasn't on vacaton I would write it for him...and I am still hoping he joins. It all sounds a bit precious. It does, and it was. I believe EMP stopped the "tricks" and the grid menu, and the hyper-effusive description of the "providence" of everything on the menu and in the building a few years ago This could be, but I went when Meyer *did* own it (this was in 2002 or 2003), and it wasn't anything even resembling a Michelin 3-Star restaurant then. My friend ate at Per Se the night before, and found that meal to be more purely delicious than EMP, but he was splitting hairs. He said the overall experience of EMP was far better than Per Se, Alinea, etc.
Keithstg Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 This could be, but I went when Meyer *did* own it (this was in 2002 or 2003), and it wasn't anything even resembling a Michelin 3-Star restaurant then. Quite honestly, I think Danny Meyer has jumped the shark (actually, "selling out" and becoming wildly rich and famous is very different than "jumping the shark" and throwing a Hail Mary pass to try and save an institution past its prime, so my terminology is flawed). That was when Kerry Heffernan was chef. EMP rebooted completely when Daniel Humm took over the kitchen in 2006 focusing on a more Michelin-star like experience. Not touching the Danny Meyer comment other than to say that accusing him of "selling out" (whatever that means) is a gross simplification.
DonRocks Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Not touching the Danny Meyer comment other than to say that accusing him of "selling out" (whatever that means) is a gross simplification. Keith, not only did you "touch" the comment, you slammed it to the ground, starting with the rhetorical word, "accusing." I understand you may not want to argue (and quite honestly, neither do I), but let's at least be forthright.
B.A.R. Posted September 9, 2015 Posted September 9, 2015 So here is the story told by my acquaintance about his dinner at EMP. Although I have seen this couple socially on numerous occasions, I had no idea about their passion for food and beverage until the other day, when it was suggested to them to ask me for some help in procuring a bottle of wine. Mark asked if I might be able to help, and he showed me a picture of Bracchetto from Giovanni Almondo "“ an odd bottle for sure. I asked him where he had it and he said that he and his wife just celebrated their anniversary at EMP. I asked him how the dinner was and he said the dinner was "flawless." His wife chimed in that their dinner at Per Se the night before was arguably more delicious, but the meal at EMP was the best experience "by far". And so launched the story. They tend to make reservations at excellent restaurants "as early as possible"¦because we love food and want to be surprised by what comes out. Had we eaten at Alinea at 8pm instead of 5:30pm, much of the magic and "˜wow' factory may have been lost". They show up early for their reservation and are not seated, and can't go to the bar to have a cocktail. They have made their reservation on bartender Jim Betz's last night, and the pre-shift honors have delayed proceedings. Nonetheless, they are seated on-time and get the wine pairing. Mark and his wife are really gregarious people, and were by no means pissed off that they could not get a drink prior to dinner. Their waiter explained why the bar was closed and they made chit chat about Mr. Betz and his "All Betz are Off" signature drink. The meal progressed, with "spectacular course after spectacular course." About 30 minutes into their meal, the AGM came over and inquired as to their plans after dinner. They were heading to a cocktail bar afterwards, and she wondered "if they might trust her to have a little fun". They quickly said sure, and the AGM returned with a solitary skeleton key, placed it on the table, and told them it was for later. The next 2 hours were filled with anticipation"¦.."What is this key for?" At the end of the meal"¦.the key still sat there. They paid their check. The AGM came back and asked them to come with her"¦.and bring the key. They left the building and walked through Madison Park, with the AGM providing a walking tour of the area and a history of the restaurant, her experiences there, etc. She brought them to the Nomad Hotel, a few blocks away, and explained that EMP runs the food service here. She gives them a tour of the restaurant and various bars and leads them to the Library, a bar reserved for guests of the hotel and members. They are seated at a table, asked to place the key on the table, and bid adieu. A few minutes later, Jim Betz appears at the table with his signature cocktails. He apologizes for the bar being closed early and hands them a deck of cards. From here on out, they are to pick three cards from the deck, and a cocktail would be made based upon their selection. The cards had pictures of herbs, vacation destination, muscle cars, super heroes, and all sorts of random things meant to evoke flavors and emotions. He says the rest of their evening is complements of EMP, and leaves. The key still sits there. They drink their cocktails and select cards for their next drink. They say the selection process is "a blast". Soon thereafter, a large chest is placed on their table. It is locked. They finally get to use their key and open the chest to find it laden with snacks and confections and cheeses and meats and pretty much more than they could possibly eat the rest of the evening. They looked around The Library and no one had any of the food that they were having, much less and entire chestful. This was just for them. They asked the server where they could purchase the deck of cards, as they would like to replicate the drink experience at a party in their home. "they are made specifically for EMP. Please take them with you." They ate and drank and ate and drank and several hours later, after "about 6 drinks each and 5 pounds of food" they asked for their check. No check was presented, as everything was "on" EMP. They wouldn't even run their card for $.01 so they could leave a tip. They emptied out their wallets of all the cash they had for the server, and walked out into the NYC darkness "“ positively delighted. 1
Bart Posted September 9, 2015 Posted September 9, 2015 They ate and drank and ate and drank and several hours later, after "about 6 drinks each and 5 pounds of food" they asked for their check. No check was presented, as everything was "on" EMP. They wouldn't even run their card for $.01 so they could leave a tip. They emptied out their wallets of all the cash they had for the server, and walked out into the NYC darkness "“ positively delighted. Amazing story! I don't understand the bit about not having to pay. Were they a friend of someone?
B.A.R. Posted September 9, 2015 Posted September 9, 2015 I don't understand the bit about not having to pay. Were they a friend of someone? Nope. This was just an EMP way of doing something special for a guest. They told me the story a solid week afterwards and were still just giddy and beaming
genericeric Posted August 8, 2016 Posted August 8, 2016 On the one hand, you have EMP rising to the number 3 overall spot on the SP top worldwide list this year. On the other hand, you have Tom Sietsema saying he was 'bored'. Having dined here this weekend, I'm going to side with Pellegrino. To be fair to Mr. Sietsema, EMP changed their format - reportedly in January after his visit. It used to be 20+ courses lasting more than four hours. Our experience on Saturday was eleven courses, and clocked in a few minutes shy of the three hour mark. Booking the reservation is like many of the other top restaurants - 28 days in advance, phone lines open at 9am sharp. Call at 9:30 and get offered a 5:30 table. 5:45? Lunch. Well, it just so happens that my four month old decided to throw an epic tantrum at 8:55, so lunch it is! I was hesitant - after all, it is the same price, supposedly the same menu, but having this meal be a lunch felt like it may lessen the experience. But it also seemed like it may lessen the wine bill, so lunch it was. Side note- the restaurant does offer a limited number of reservations from Open Table - released also at 9am each day and snapped up immediately. Courses (some of these weren't full courses, but for the sake of simplicity...): 1. Black and White - savory cookie with Apple and Cheddar. 2. Cucumber with cream cheese and rye, melon variations with tomato and goat cheese, cucumber with honeydew and mint, cantaloupe with smoked watermelon 3. Foie Gras marinated with strawberry and black pepper. This course had several options, my wife chose crab covered with tiny zucchini. The foie also had an option of a sauteed lobe or the terrine, as you can see below, I chose the terrine. 4. Caviar picnic with pickled mackerel and ratatouille. So a server drops off a picnic basket at your table and asks you to unpack it, then stops by a few minutes later to explain. Within the basket were small jars of ratatouille topped with caviar, the pickled mackerel, two jars of osteria over creme fraiche toasts, and a jar of tomato water champagne. It was a relatively straightforward caviar course made a little more fun with the picnic theme. And I want to know where to buy that tomato champagne. 5. Sunflower with green tomato and sunflower crumble. This was also a choice course - my wife chose the creamed sweet corn with clams. This course, for both options, was as close as a miss as there was for me. The braised sunflower was fine, but was served over the green tomato coulis and a dollop of what tasted similar to mayonnaise. Too many tart flavor profiles which the crumble couldn't offset. My wife's creamed corn was much more delicious, but the presentation was sloppy and the clams weren't needed. I'm splitting hairs, but probably our least favorite course. 6. Lobster Boil. Another choice between the lobster boil and a smoked fish. The lobster boil was exactly what you would expect - lobster, clams, shrimp, sausage, beans etc cooked in a minestrone sauce, the drained out over paper on the table. Completely unexpected for the type of restaurant, and delicious. Saw a few other tables get the smoked fish and were very glad with our choice (which had to be agreed upon) 7. Duck - honey and lavender glazed with cherry and onion. Other choices were steak and something vegetarian. Just a wonderful piece of duck. 8. Corn custard with garlic and lime and roasted tomato with compressed bread. 9. Hudson Valley Camembert with plum and basil. Basically small muffins with a camembert filling. At first I was disappointed in this as the cheese course, but these were very well done - it was almost more of a crusted cheese than a cheese muffin. Inhaled. 10. Apricot that was grilled at the table, served with lemon thyme ice cream and honey 11. Chocolate 'Name that milk' game and pretzel with sea salt. Four chocolate bars were set on the table with a small game card - challenge was to guess which was made with cow, goat, sheep and buffalo milk. The wine pairings here felt a little ridiculous. Full pairing for $245 comes in as being more expensive than the cost of the food if you remove the inclusive service charge (225 -> 295) with the 'esoteric pairing' I believe at 170. We split a bottle of sparkling rose to start the meal, then my wife had two glasses of chardonnay and I had a pilsner and a manhattan from the manhattan cart (which I got far more entertainment out of than I maybe should have), along with the gratis brandy at the end. Total booze bill was still less than one wine pairing would have been, and we were pleasantly day drunk on the way out. There was very little gastronomy. There wasn't a lot of flash. But there certainly was not boredom. It never felt like the lag between courses was excessive, and I'm a guy who likes to keep things moving. The little interactive touches like the picnic basket, grilling the apricot at the table, the lobster boil, the chocolate game kept things interesting. Sure, if I went every week they might become trite, but I doubt that frequency is a problem for many diners. This was also a menu that had heavily seasonal accents - lots of fresh corn and late summer tomatoes. The one curiosity I did have was the difference between lunch and dinner. They say its the same menu, the same price, etc. But did the evening meal have the asparagus cooked in pig's bladder that I'd heard so much about? Or the caviar benedict instead of the picnic? Who knows - but I volunteer to go back to investigate next time someone else is paying! For those wondering, the total bill was $818. 295 base price including tip, plus $70ish worth of tax and the alcohol. 5
genericeric Posted April 1, 2017 Posted April 1, 2017 A few months back, EMP changed their reservation system to be all online - a MUCH better customer experience that the previous exercise of redial at 10am exactly xx days in advance. They also introduced a 5-course menu option at their bar tables for $145. What wasn't clear was whether you could still show up at 5:30 and grab two stools at the bar - happily, you can. There is a bit of a rush for the bar right when they open at 5:30 but the staff handled it well. Bar guests were seated in a side area until the dinner guests were seated in the dining room, making room. Staff kept track of who came in and in what order and ushered patrons to the bar stools in the appropriate order. I could sit at this bar all night and watch them make cocktails. EMP's cocktail list is inventive and the staff was engaging and more than happy to talk through what they were doing. Our wonderful bartender mentioned they were working on developing a full beverage pairing of mocktails (and noted they were happy to booze them up as requested). We were heading for dinner a farewell dinner to Craftbar down the street, so stuck to cocktails and caviar. The caviar course is currently the benedict, which has changed over the years. Honestly I preferred the more straightforward presentation of caviar over creme fraiche we had last summer - the ham in the benedict in addition to the caviar made the dish a little too one-note with salt. That being said, it was still a very good dish (served with tiny english muffins). The caviar is currently the first course on the 5-course bar seat tasting menu (which is also available at the bar stools, not just the tables) - at $69 it almost makes the $145 option seem like a bargain. The menu is changing to EMP 'classics' in a week until the restaurant closes in early June for a 3 month renovation (the staff was pretty excited for their summer gig at the pop-up in the Hamptons) - will be interesting to see how the menu and format changes when they re-open in the fall. Side note - gratuity IS included in bar prices, which was a nice surprise at the end. Other options are also available at the stools a la carte - appetizers generally ran in the 25-35 range with entrees in the 45-60 range. The bar stool option provides a much more approachable way to experience EMP if you can't get a reservation in the dining room, don't have $800 to spend, or 3+ hours to have dinner. And if you ask nicely, you can still snag a jar of that granola on the way out. 2
genericeric Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 I'm afraid I'm starting to sound like a shill in this thread, but to keep things current... Snagged a reservation for lunch in the main dining room this past Sunday. Our first reservation since the remodel - the space has been freshened, but not dramatically redesigned. The bar area has undergone a change - there are now more seats available for the more approachable bar reservations, however there are fewer bar stools that are for walk ins. If you show up at noon on a Sunday, you still seem to be able to get your pick of seats sitting at the now-smaller bar. Service remains impeccable. Approachable, almost casual but always extremely professional. Not at all stuffy, but exceedingly capable stewards throughout the meal. I won't go dish by dish, as many dishes remain stalwart from previous posts. The highs: From the simple but great book - the cheese course. A single disk of cheese, grilled and served atop a thin plate of celery root (I could have sworn it was potato but the menu corrected me at the end), served with a simple green salad in a truffle vinaigrette. A winter green salad on top of rye toast. A thin tart shell topped with black truffle puree and sprinkled with clothbound cheddar, served with a truffle-stuffed mushroom and grilled portobella. The lows: A butter poached lobster with a lobster broth, sweet potato, wilted greens and chestnut. The chestnut texture didn't work, and was a smoke bomb that threw the dish off balance. My dessert of a spiced cake with roasted pumpkin and creme fraiche ice cream - I also didn't care for the texture of the pumpkin. My wife and I agreed that we've enjoyed our food more on previous occasions. It isn't that it wasn't well executed, but we preferred the dishes offered on the summer menu. I was a bit surprised to be seeing so many winter flavors on the menu on April 1st. That being said, it was still a wonderful and fun experience, and I have no doubt we'll be back - though maybe next time to grab a bar stool. 2
lekkerwijn Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 We had lunch in the newly remodeled EMP a couple weeks ago. It was our third visit in four years; we have now been for dinner, lunch and dinner in the bar. As it is in the neighborhood, we have also popped in for their uber-excellent cocktails on special occasions. The food and service was impeccable, but for intangible reasons that I can't fully articulate it wasn't quite as enjoyable as our past meals. At this point our firm recommendation is to go for the bar menu rather than the full tasting menu. The price point to quality ratio is much stronger and while the experience isn't quite the same as the dining room, it is still very enjoyable and a bit more relaxed. Note to those who might consider this option. You can book (and thus prepay) the bar menu in advance. BUT they keep seats available for walk-ins and the bar is now open for lunch. The bar was basically empty when we were there. So, if you show up at 11:45 when they open you are highly likely to get a seat/s. Similarly we were told after 9 pm it opens up as well, particularly on a week night. 1 1
dcs Posted July 30, 2019 Posted July 30, 2019 The Owners of Eleven Madison Park Are Ending Their Partnership, by Kim Severson, July 29, 2019, on nytimes.com.
genericeric Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 It's going to happen at some point. No restaurant can stay as good as EMP was 3-4 years ago, while still being as relevant and timely forever. That being said, Guidara and Humm showed an ability to adapt - starting out more simply, then going too far into the complex, and finding a happy middle ground where it really hit its stride. But then the expansions started - seasonal pop ups in different locations, a fast casual lunch place, and now an ambitious restaurant in London that seems to be the focus of Humm's attention these days. And of course, the split between the two partners themselves. Our first visit for dinner was fabulous. The second was good, but we left thinking it would be best to visit the bar for more casual and affordable experiences in the future - and we've enjoyed those since. But we thought, maybe before we get more than one generation away from Guidara's service and Humm's attention in the kitchen, we'd give it a last go. The service - we were discussing the dinner with friends beforehand and their focus was on the food, but I've always felt the real star of the show here was the service. Where else can I go and have someone ask me if there's anything I don't want, and then deliver a superb meal where everything is very good or better; where the staff has done their research on our previous visits and preferences? Happily all of our interactions with the staff were as pleasant, professional, and comfortable as ever. Without requesting it, we were taken on a "Field Trip" - a tour of the kitchen with a snack made for us, in front of us - it was a nice way of continuing to surprise repeat guests and make the experience unique. The food - I won't go course-by-course but the low point was a poached lobster with razor clam and potato over a lobster and sea urchin bisque. It wasn't bad, but the clams and sea urchin overpowered the lobster. The highs were a roasted mushroom with pine and black truffle, and caviar with savory souffle. The wine - I had never done the wine pairing here before, they offer two options - a classic for $175 and reserve for $335. We stuck to the classic and were not disappointed - it took decision making out of the equation and we were able to just sit back and enjoy, and even at that price point, I didn't feel fleeced given the quality of selection and reasonable pours. In total the meal was $1,051. An absurd price by any measure. But I will say that, so far, this restaurant is almost as good as it ever has been. (Two small nits - the first course is oysters served hot and cold with a smoked oyster broth. I burned my lip on the shell of the hot prep (which sounds like a 'duh' moment but am guessing I wasn't the only one) and since we had an earlier seating, everyone present was getting their oyster broth at more or less the same time. Without any other odors or many people to compete the smell permeating the restaurant was off-putting, but as the place filled up it dissipated) 1
dcs Posted April 3, 2020 Posted April 3, 2020 New York’s New Soup Kitchen Has an Upscale Address: Eleven Madison Park, by Amelia Nierenberg, April 2, 2020, on nytimes.com. 1
genericeric Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 Chef Daniel Humm has announced that EMP will reopen in June... as a vegan restaurant. It will be interested to see if they pull this off - the menu was never super heavy on meat, but no doubt the duck was their signature dish. I'm most interested to see what the price point will be when reservations reopen next Monday, May 10th. Without the caviar, lobster and duck, will it still be north of $300 per person?
Mark Slater Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 17 minutes ago, genericeric said: Chef Daniel Humm has announced that EMP will reopen in June... as a vegan restaurant. It will be interested to see if they pull this off - the menu was never super heavy on meat, but no doubt the duck was their signature dish. I'm most interested to see what the price point will be when reservations reopen next Monday, May 10th. Without the caviar, lobster and duck, will it still be north of $300 per person? I thought he stepped away from EMP.
Keithstg Posted May 3, 2021 Posted May 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Mark Slater said: I thought he stepped away from EMP. Will Guidara did. Their former partnership (Make it Nice, I think) dissolved sometime in 2019, maybe? This is certainly an interesting switcheroo, from one of the only chefs in NYC who could generate the heat necessary to make this change viable.
zgast Posted May 4, 2021 Posted May 4, 2021 15 hours ago, Mark Slater said: Humm has a gig London too. I just looked at the menu (only the terrace menu is available, so can't comment on inside dining as it's not open at the moment). Someone may need to convince me since the 'snacks' start at around £22 (about $30) with entrees up to £125 (albeit for steak for two). If I'm paying that much for outside dining, I want views and ambiance, not a department store. I'll check out the inside dining menu when it's back online, although I'm unlikely to do much indoor dining until I'm fully vaccinated at the end of July.
Poivrot Farci Posted May 10, 2021 Posted May 10, 2021 On 5/3/2021 at 8:54 AM, genericeric said: ...I'm most interested to see what the price point will be when reservations reopen next Monday, May 10th. Without the caviar, lobster and duck, will it still be north of $300 per person? Probably a $200 turnip with gold leaf and dairy-free cole slaw for New Year's Eve. Apple sauce for dessert. Maybe they will have their barely paid interns bicycle citrus up from Florida. 2 4
Keithstg Posted May 11, 2021 Posted May 11, 2021 12 hours ago, Poivrot Farci said: Probably a $200 turnip with gold leaf and dairy-free cole slaw for New Year's Eve. Apple sauce for dessert. Maybe they will have their barely paid interns bicycle citrus up from Florida. $335 per, $175 at the bar, all sold out. I have no interest in it, which is a bummer as someone who loved EMP since the Kerry Heffernan days (though not as much as in the Humm era, pre-this nonsense).
Steve R. Posted May 11, 2021 Posted May 11, 2021 We agree. On current plans (or lack thereof) vis a vis EMP, as well as the history. I do miss the duck. As an aside, one of the early staff at EMP was Greg, who went on to be co-owner of an East Village place called Redhead (long gone now). Redhead became the unofficial "clubhouse" of many, many of us food board folk in NYC. Were you ever there?
Keithstg Posted May 12, 2021 Posted May 12, 2021 13 hours ago, Steve R. said: We agree. On current plans (or lack thereof) vis a vis EMP, as well as the history. I do miss the duck. As an aside, one of the early staff at EMP was Greg, who went on to be co-owner of an East Village place called Redhead (long gone now). Redhead became the unofficial "clubhouse" of many, many of us food board folk in NYC. Were you ever there? Yes, but only two or three times, always for the fried chicken! Was just in town two weeks ago. I owe a report.
Steve R. Posted May 14, 2021 Posted May 14, 2021 Apropos of nothing really, I just remembered that Gregg is in your area (D.C.) working at https://www.culinaryconservatory.com/culicon. (Gregg Nelson)
genericeric Posted July 8, 2021 Posted July 8, 2021 A number of initial reviews have been released of the new menu, and they range from very good to excellent.
genericeric Posted September 17, 2021 Posted September 17, 2021 Visited EMP for the first time since the shift to plant-based food last evening. Service remains impeccable, with a few new faces and many of the pre-Covid team still holding down the fort. I have not seen this elsewhere so I'll post current menu details below. Wines are from the standard pairing ($175pp). To provide some context, I'm not personally vegan, but I can be perfectly happy with a meal that does not feature meat and dairy. Overall I felt that the restaurant did a commendable job of preparing dishes that would not make a person miss the animal products... perhaps to a fault? There appeared to be a concerted effort to add salt and umami to dishes where one wouldn't expect, with the end result being a meal that was begging for some brightness. For example, I'm not sure how a course featuring cucumber and melon would feel heavy, but this one did. Ironically some of the naturally "meatier" courses were favored because they didn't overcompensate. To be fair, I had similar feedback after a recent experience to Longoven in Richmond, so perhaps my palate is more salt-averse than many. I also found it odd that the restaurant didn't highlight some plant-based extravagances given that duck, foie gras, and caviar are no longer served. For the price point, I would've appreciated a little shaved truffle here and there. Criticisms aside, this was an interesting meal, albeit less enjoyable than previous menus. I don't regret going, but doubt I would again with the current format. Menu from 9/16/21 Tomato tea with lemon verbena, yellow tomato dosa, salad with garlic and sancho (Bruno Dangin, Prestige de Narces, Cremant de Bourgogne, France 2018). This was one of the highlights - very simple but delicious. Celtuce in variations with rice (Tatomer, Meeresboden, Gruner Veltliner, Santa Barbara County 2018) Featured celtuce (similar to celery) sliced longer than a matchstick served in a seaweed broth. Tasty, but difficult to eat with the utensils provided. Tonburi with corn, ginger, crumpets (Girolamo Russo, Nerina, Etna Bianco, Sicily, 2019) Was the table favorite of the night and definitely intended to be the caviar replacement. Cucumber with melon and smoked daikon (Royal Tokaji, Vineyard Selection, Tokaj Hungary, 2017) My wife adores cucumber but didn't adore this dish. Monotone in texture and flavor Summer Squash with lemongrass and marinated tofu (Domane du Pelican, Ouille, Arboise, Jura France, 2019) The least successful course of the evening Sweet Pepper with swiss chard (Ca'n Verdura, Supernova, Mantonegro, Binissalem-Mallorca, 2019) A play on a popper, a deep fried pepper that came with four condiments to try. Was fantastic, but difficult to eat. I'm going to search for this wine as soon as I'm done typing this - blockbuster. Eggplant with tomato and coriander (Tronquoy-Lalande, Saint Estephe, Bordeaux France, 2008) This was beautifully presented and delicious but completely blew out the bordeaux. pictured below Beet with horseradish and herbs (Alain Graillot, Crozes-Hermitage, 2015) Had gone through three days of preparation in several different styles - looked like a wrapped filet, tasted like... a beet (albeit a very good beet). Melon smoked and fresh with yogurt. Blueberry with elderflowers (G.D. Vajra, Moscato d'Asti, Piemonte 2020) More of a custard Sesame chocolate pretzel. The bottle of brandy at the end has been replaced by vermouth served in little artsy glasses with a reference to the artist. The brandy was missed, as was the whimsy of some of the previous desserts (name that milk was a favorite) 4 2
reedm Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 On 9/17/2021 at 1:11 PM, genericeric said: Visited EMP for the first time since the shift to plant-based food last evening. Service remains impeccable, with a few new faces and many of the pre-Covid team still holding down the fort. I have not seen this elsewhere so I'll post current menu details below. Wines are from the standard pairing ($175pp). To provide some context, I'm not personally vegan, but I can be perfectly happy with a meal that does not feature meat and dairy. Overall I felt that the restaurant did a commendable job of preparing dishes that would not make a person miss the animal products... perhaps to a fault? There appeared to be a concerted effort to add salt and umami to dishes where one wouldn't expect, with the end result being a meal that was begging for some brightness. For example, I'm not sure how a course featuring cucumber and melon would feel heavy, but this one did. Ironically some of the naturally "meatier" courses were favored because they didn't overcompensate. To be fair, I had similar feedback after a recent experience to Longoven in Richmond, so perhaps my palate is more salt-averse than many. I also found it odd that the restaurant didn't highlight some plant-based extravagances given that duck, foie gras, and caviar are no longer served. For the price point, I would've appreciated a little shaved truffle here and there. Criticisms aside, this was an interesting meal, albeit less enjoyable than previous menus. I don't regret going, but doubt I would again with the current format. Menu from 9/16/21 Tomato tea with lemon verbena, yellow tomato dosa, salad with garlic and sancho (Bruno Dangin, Prestige de Narces, Cremant de Bourgogne, France 2018). This was one of the highlights - very simple but delicious. Celtuce in variations with rice (Tatomer, Meeresboden, Gruner Veltliner, Santa Barbara County 2018) Featured celtuce (similar to celery) sliced longer than a matchstick served in a seaweed broth. Tasty, but difficult to eat with the utensils provided. Tonburi with corn, ginger, crumpets (Girolamo Russo, Nerina, Etna Bianco, Sicily, 2019) Was the table favorite of the night and definitely intended to be the caviar replacement. Cucumber with melon and smoked daikon (Royal Tokaji, Vineyard Selection, Tokaj Hungary, 2017) My wife adores cucumber but didn't adore this dish. Monotone in texture and flavor Summer Squash with lemongrass and marinated tofu (Domane du Pelican, Ouille, Arboise, Jura France, 2019) The least successful course of the evening Sweet Pepper with swiss chard (Ca'n Verdura, Supernova, Mantonegro, Binissalem-Mallorca, 2019) A play on a popper, a deep fried pepper that came with four condiments to try. Was fantastic, but difficult to eat. I'm going to search for this wine as soon as I'm done typing this - blockbuster. Eggplant with tomato and coriander (Tronquoy-Lalande, Saint Estephe, Bordeaux France, 2008) This was beautifully presented and delicious but completely blew out the bordeaux. pictured below Beet with horseradish and herbs (Alain Graillot, Crozes-Hermitage, 2015) Had gone through three days of preparation in several different styles - looked like a wrapped filet, tasted like... a beet (albeit a very good beet). Melon smoked and fresh with yogurt. Blueberry with elderflowers (G.D. Vajra, Moscato d'Asti, Piemonte 2020) More of a custard Sesame chocolate pretzel. The bottle of brandy at the end has been replaced by vermouth served in little artsy glasses with a reference to the artist. The brandy was missed, as was the whimsy of some of the previous desserts (name that milk was a favorite) Pete Wells just published his informative and somewhat humorous review. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/28/dining/eleven-madison-park-restaurant-review-plant-based.html I assume you are not a professional food critic, but I spotted a few similarities between your observations and Pete's. 🙂 Well done! 3
genericeric Posted September 29, 2021 Posted September 29, 2021 14 hours ago, reedm said: Pete Wells just published his informative and somewhat humorous review. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/28/dining/eleven-madison-park-restaurant-review-plant-based.html I assume you are not a professional food critic, but I spotted a few similarities between your observations and Pete's. 🙂 Well done! "Beets aren’t very good at pretending to be meat, but their ability to taste like beets is unrivaled." Pretty much sums up his review. Thanks for posting 2
DonRocks Posted October 15, 2021 Posted October 15, 2021 On 9/28/2021 at 7:50 PM, reedm said: Pete Wells just published his informative and somewhat humorous review. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/28/dining/eleven-madison-park-restaurant-review-plant-based.html I assume you are not a professional food critic, but I spotted a few similarities between your observations and Pete's. 🙂 Well done! genericeric's review up above was fantastic! Wells' NY Times review went somewhat viral after it was written, btw. "This World-Famous Restaurant Ditched Meat, but It's Still Charging $335 a Person. Will People Pay?" by Leah Asmelash on cnn.com Here's an excerpt from the CNN article: Quote As for Humm, he said he felt EMP could do with food what Tesla accomplished with cars. "It was only really until Tesla created an electric luxury car that they made it sexy," he said. "They made it luxurious. They made it beautiful. And so it took that for the whole world to change. And I thought of having this similar responsibility of this restaurant that we actually were in a very unique position. Most restaurants don't have the luxury to make that kind of risky move." I probably shouldn't say this, but in the late 1990s, I invested in electric motors. I was absolutely certain they'd become standard equipment in lawnmowers, motorcycles, and eventually, automobiles. And time is proving me to be correct. But I made the same mistake I've made numerous times in my life: I out-thought humanity. I was twenty years too soon, and I lost the vast majority of my investment. In other words, it might be a little early for Daniel Humm to be using the Tesla analogy.
Steve R. Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 I don't know Humm and have only a few friends who do. But ignorance has never stopped me from hypothesizing. So, given that, I have 2 thoughts about him constantly changing EMP: one, that Humm is bored stiff and keeps looking around for a reason to continue as a chef/owner &/or two, that Humm keeps looking for whatever is trending and tries to be in the forefront of it. Maybe a combination of both. At any rate, I haven't been intrigued enough by any of his moves since the original, and am even less so with this one. I really think that, if he took another look at the overall current NYC dining scene, maybe he'd find that the EMP he dissected years ago would be a gold mine now. I mean, that duck alone... 1
LauraB Posted October 19, 2021 Posted October 19, 2021 15 hours ago, Steve R. said: At any rate, I haven't been intrigued enough by any of his moves since the original, and am even less so with this one. I really think that, if he took another look at the overall current NYC dining scene, maybe he'd find that the EMP he dissected years ago would be a gold mine now. I mean, that duck alone... Completely agree! 2
MsDiPesto Posted November 13, 2021 Posted November 13, 2021 There's an article in the WaPo that states he had plans to introduce an all vegan menu at Davies and Brook in Claridge's, but management chose to part ways with him instead.
Keithstg Posted January 18, 2022 Posted January 18, 2022 Received this email on Friday - price stays the same, so price increase. Haven't been to this new iteration, and don't find the concept interesting, but in case anyone was wondering... “Friends,We’ve officially entered a new year. Before sharing a brief announcement, we want to express our wish that you and your loved ones are healthy, happy and safe.While there are many reasons to be hopeful, the uncertainty facing the hospitality industry still remains. The cost of operating a restaurant in Manhattan has never been higher. As ever, our priority is to find ways to support our team; the individuals whose heart, dedication, and significance to this restaurant cannot be overstated.That is why, beginning Thursday, February 3, Eleven Madison Park will no longer be a service-included restaurant. As of that evening, guests will have the option to add a gratuity for their experience.This decision is the result of careful consideration. Like many of our peers, we originally embraced this model in an effort to ease the historic, often glaring financial stress between those that work in the kitchen and those in the dining room, while also removing the transaction from the guest experience. After years of using this system, we learned that it does not positively provide for anyone in this new normal.As times change, so must we. This adjustment will allow us to pay our dining room team more competitively, while also allowing us to increase the wages for all of those in our kitchen. If you are looking to learn more, please email us.Optimistic as we are, shifts like these come with an adjustment period.When everyone is supported, everyone succeeds.We look forward to welcoming you to Eleven Madison Park in 2022”
MsDiPesto Posted January 26, 2022 Posted January 26, 2022 "Table 5, your Grilled Beet and Broken Rice Porridge is up, Table 5!"
Steve R. Posted January 26, 2022 Posted January 26, 2022 They need the price increase to pay for a better pr team. Maybe one that can write less transparently. 1
genericeric Posted January 26, 2022 Posted January 26, 2022 58 minutes ago, Steve R. said: They need the price increase to pay for a better pr team. Maybe one that can write less transparently. Agree. When reading it I couldn't decide if I was insulted that they thought I was that stupid, or embarrassed that they were. I've been a big fan of what I felt was a uniquely special experience provided by the EMP team over the years, but between the faux altruism of "going vegan" while serving beef to your private event clients to hiding a jaw-dropping price increase behind improving staff compensation equity while making tipping optional, it feels like this restaurant in living on borrowed time. I did notice they also sent out a message well after the usual reservation availability date for open slots in February - while no doubt also impacted by omicron, certainly a fair cry from a waiting list thousands of patrons long just a few months removed. 1
Steve R. Posted January 27, 2022 Posted January 27, 2022 As a big fan of the old, old EMP it appeared to me that, when the partnership dissolved and Humm took ownership, the business sensibility went out the window. Then he seemed to get bored with chef’ing one of the best kitchens in NYC and started the first of many “gimmicks” — like that mix and match menu. In my opinion, it’s been a steady descent ever since. I’m waiting for a “you bring your own ingredients & we’ll cook it” (at full price of course) or a “pick what you’ll eat tonight from a grab bag” concept. (maybe I shouldn’t give him any ideas). 5
genericeric Posted August 15, 2022 Posted August 15, 2022 A year ago at this time, a reservation at EMP was the hottest, hardest-to-get ticket in town. After receiving a few marketing emails recently I checked this morning and you can get a prime time reservation any day this week, and it there was one time you could eat at a vegan restaurant, I would think late August would be ideal for seasonality. Between the terrible Times review, the mixed ethos of offering meat to private clients while standing on a moral vegan high ground (if that's such a thing) and a dramatic price increase by removing gratuity from the price, Humm may have broken what once was a truly remarkable experience. 2
Bob Wells Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 The recent price hike is probably making reservations easier to come by too. https://ny.eater.com/2022/7/7/23198636/eleven-madison-park-tasting-menu-price-increase-august
Mark Slater Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 22 hours ago, Bob Wells said: The recent price hike is probably making reservations easier to come by too. https://ny.eater.com/2022/7/7/23198636/eleven-madison-park-tasting-menu-price-increase-august Holy conspicuous consumption, Batman!! This is a ludicrous price to pay for fine dining without any of the traditional ingredients of luxury dining. Is this all ego driven? Imagine paying a month's worth of grocery shopping for 1 meal. I don't get it. 2
zgast Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 39 minutes ago, Mark Slater said: Holy conspicuous consumption, Batman!! This is a ludicrous price to pay for fine dining without any of the traditional ingredients of luxury dining. Is this all ego driven? Imagine paying a month's worth of grocery shopping for 1 meal. I don't get it. Evidently it's those pesky organic vegetables: "The pricing change will help the restaurant offset higher vegetable and vendor costs, in addition to providing for higher wages for back-of-house workers, according to a spokesperson for Eleven Madison." You wouldn't believe how much more sunlight and dirt cost these days.... 2
Bob Wells Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Mark Slater said: Holy conspicuous consumption, Batman!! This is a ludicrous price to pay for fine dining without any of the traditional ingredients of luxury dining. Is this all ego driven? Imagine paying a month's worth of grocery shopping for 1 meal. I don't get it. Snowballing off Pete Wells's (no relation, nor is Patricia Wells) classic review from last year, $365 can buy a buttload of beets. For comparison purposes, the current price of a meal at Inn at Little Washington is $328. 4
genericeric Posted August 22, 2022 Posted August 22, 2022 On 8/17/2022 at 8:46 AM, zgast said: Evidently it's those pesky organic vegetables: "The pricing change will help the restaurant offset higher vegetable and vendor costs, in addition to providing for higher wages for back-of-house workers, according to a spokesperson for Eleven Madison." You wouldn't believe how much more sunlight and dirt cost these days.... Unfortunately for both Humm and the workers he's underpaying, this wouldn't be the first time a price increase has occurred with the excuse being to raise wages, but the wage hike doesn't happen. 1
DonRocks Posted September 6, 2022 Posted September 6, 2022 On 8/16/2022 at 9:50 AM, Bob Wells said: The recent price hike is probably making reservations easier to come by too. https://ny.eater.com/2022/7/7/23198636/eleven-madison-park-tasting-menu-price-increase-august The Inn at Little Washington’s menu is now $328 ($556 with wine pairings), independent of additional beverages, service (20% is $110), and tax (5.3%) is $30). Dinner for two, with pairings, will cost about $1,400. Stay overnight, and you’ll spend over $2,000. Monday nights may be the way to go here, as hotel guests get a complimentary dinner for two at Patty O’s (the main restaurant is closed). 1 1
genericeric Posted September 14, 2022 Posted September 14, 2022 On 9/6/2022 at 3:25 PM, DonRocks said: The Inn at Little Washington’s menu is now $328 ($556 with wine pairings), independent of additional beverages, service (20% is $110), and tax (5.3%) is $30). Dinner for two, with pairings, will cost about $1,400. Stay overnight, and you’ll spend over $2,000. Monday nights may be the way to go here, as hotel guests get a complimentary dinner for two at Patty O’s (the main restaurant is closed). FWIW, that dinner all inclusive cost is about 10% higher than what the same cost at Le Bernardin last month.
Mark Slater Posted September 14, 2022 Posted September 14, 2022 Yikes. That's really expensive. I remember seeing a dining guide from 1964 that listed the Jockey Club as "very expensive" because the rack of lamb was $4.95. 3
Tweaked Posted October 11, 2022 Posted October 11, 2022 Announced via IG, Kajitsu closing chef Hiroki Abe is joining the Eleven Madison Park team. They don't say what his specific role will be.
Keithstg Posted October 12, 2022 Posted October 12, 2022 On 9/6/2022 at 3:25 PM, DonRocks said: The Inn at Little Washington’s menu is now $328 ($556 with wine pairings), independent of additional beverages, service (20% is $110), and tax (5.3%) is $30). Dinner for two, with pairings, will cost about $1,400. Stay overnight, and you’ll spend over $2,000. Monday nights may be the way to go here, as hotel guests get a complimentary dinner for two at Patty O’s (the main restaurant is closed). Not sure what any of this has to do with EMP, which has somehow maintained 3* for another year. Weekend reservations at both EMP and IALW remain hard to find or nearly impossible less than several months in advance.
genericeric Posted October 16, 2022 Posted October 16, 2022 On 10/12/2022 at 5:47 PM, Keithstg said: Not sure what any of this has to do with EMP, which has somehow maintained 3* for another year. Weekend reservations at both EMP and IALW remain hard to find or nearly impossible less than several months in advance. I think it was for comparison purposes. BTW I just checked and there are EMP reservations available for 2-3 weeks out on weekend nights, days after the renewed 3* Michelin rating, which would have been unheard of 2 years ago.
Keithstg Posted October 17, 2022 Posted October 17, 2022 14 hours ago, genericeric said: I think it was for comparison purposes. BTW I just checked and there are EMP reservations available for 2-3 weeks out on weekend nights, days after the renewed 3* Michelin rating, which would have been unheard of 2 years ago. Agreed that the vegan bit limits customers. Does seem as though EMP may now be the easiest 3* reservation to secure in NY, so should probably have tempered my timeline, which holds for IALW, btw, which is still a vastly different restaurant hundreds of miles away.
TrelayneNYC Posted August 15, 2023 Posted August 15, 2023 On 1/26/2022 at 7:15 PM, Steve R. said: As a big fan of the old, old EMP it appeared to me that, when the partnership dissolved and Humm took ownership, the business sensibility went out the window. Then he seemed to get bored with chef’ing one of the best kitchens in NYC and started the first of many “gimmicks” — like that mix and match menu. In my opinion, it’s been a steady descent ever since. I’m waiting for a “you bring your own ingredients & we’ll cook it” (at full price of course) or a “pick what you’ll eat tonight from a grab bag” concept. (maybe I shouldn’t give him any ideas). i think it’s time danny meyer made him an offer he can’t refuse and buy the restaurant back. then we can return to normal. if i had scheduled our upcoming trip a few years ago, i would have been proud to tell my husband that this restaurant is amazing but now i cringe whenever i re-read about them. oh what might have been. On 10/11/2022 at 6:57 AM, Tweaked said: Announced via IG, Kajitsu closing chef Hiroki Abe is joining the Eleven Madison Park team. They don't say what his specific role will be. probably won’t be beet tempura
Tweaked Posted August 15, 2023 Posted August 15, 2023 14 hours ago, TrelayneNYC said: probably won’t be beet tempura After it was announced that Hiroki Abe would be joining Eleven Madison Park, there doesn't seem to have been much follow through. He appears to be doing pop ups these days and doesn't appear to be affiliated with the restaurant. Maybe he was doing consulting...unknown.
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