Soul Food

[DaRiv18]

An LA friend of my DC friend is arriving, and wants to try "soul food" in DC.  Any suggestions?  I was going to suggest DCity Smokehouse but is that even in the genre?

[frogprince]

Ooooh's and Aaaah's on u st and Florida ave grill spring immediately to mind

[DonRocks]

Ooooh's and Aaaah's on u st and Florida ave grill spring immediately to mind

I haven't been in years, but at its peak, their baked chicken and mac & cheese were both really good.

Are you limited to DC proper?

(Still trying to figure out what "whiting" and "croaker" are...)

[SilverBullitt]

The All Saint's cafeteria at 6th and M NW is very good (I didn't care for the ribs- they were cooked in sauce and kind of mushy).  I've heard good things about Henry's Soul Café on 5th and K NW.

[Marty L.]

Ooooh's and Aaaah's on u st and Florida ave grill spring immediately to mind

The former (Os and As), not the latter.  Steve on Chowhound, perhaps their biggest fan, swears by the shrimp with grits, the broiled (not fried) crabcake and the lemon pepper wings.

[DaRiv18]

Are you limited to DC proper?

I think so, they are catching cabs from the airport and I don't think my friend has a car.

[Al Dente]

(Still trying to figure out what "whiting" and "croaker" are...)

Fish! Croakers and Whiting!

They're typically just fileted and fried.

Every damn time I go fishing on the Chesapeake with my father, just about all we catch are croakers. He makes a kind of fish cake out of them. Not bad, but I want a monster rockfish.

[DonRocks]

Fish! Croakers and Whiting!

I *know* they're fish you dufus; I've just never known what species.

I've only been to All Saints once, and while I thought it was charming (in a church bake sale kind of way), I can't say I was doing somersaults over the food.

[weezy]

If they're catching the cab at Reagan National, maybe swing by Blue &White in Alexandria and get some fried chicken.

[Pat]

Does Horace & Dickie's count as soul food?

[Rhone1998]

The former (Os and As), not the latter.  Steve on Chowhound, perhaps their biggest fan, swears by the shrimp with grits, the broiled (not fried) crabcake and the lemon pepper wings.

Agree 100%.  Ooohs and Aaahs (however you spell it) is much, much better than Florida Ave. Grill.

[Escoffier]

Flavors Soul Food in Bailey's Crossroads if you can make it that far.  No atmosphere, no tablecloths, no servers, just soul food. Fried chicken, trout, nothing else is necessary.

[Ericandblueboy]

Why do they want soul food?  Is it because they haven't had it or do they want to see if it's better here?  AFAIK, there's good soul food in LA and nothing spectacular in DC.  So I'm confused by this request.

ETA - Hill Country BBQ makes great green bean with fried onions.  DCity makes good collard greens, thems soul food but the rest is BBQ.

[frogprince]

When you say "LA" do you mean Louisiana or Los angeles?

[Escoffier]

When you say "LA" do you mean Louisiana or Los angeles?

Lower Alabama (Florida panhandle)

[DaRiv18]

When you say "LA" do you mean Louisiana or Los angeles?

Los Angeles.

Why do they want soul food?  Is it because they haven't had it or do they want to see if it's better here?  AFAIK, there's good soul food in LA and nothing spectacular in DC.  So I'm confused by this request.

Y'know, I am just trying to accommodate a friend.  I am always confused by requests by LA people about dining in the DC area, and I hate responding to it.

[Tujague]

Y'know, I am just trying to accommodate a friend.  I am always confused by requests by LA people about dining in the DC area, and I hate responding to it.  

I hear you. It probably comes down to the misplaced assumptions that people make about DC: (1) that we are in fact a southern city--not; and (2) that we are a majority-black city (not so much anymore): ergo, good and plentiful soul food. With no insult to your friend, who is surely a fine person, these sorts of broad-based assumptions can be a tad racist.

[Kev29]

Does Horace & Dickie's count as soul food?

When you look at their side options... Affirmative.

Side Orders:

Sm: 2.50     Lg: 5.00

Kale/ Collard Greens

Baked Mac and Cheese

Potato Salad

Cole Slaw

Candied Yams

Hushpuppies

French Fries

Sweet Potato Fries

Onion Rings

[Escoffier]

I've lived in the south most of my life (one hell of a long time), I've eaten in dives, places two steps from being condemned, places that should have been condemned years ago, and in all that time, I have NEVER seen a good soul food restaurant have sweet potato fries.  Mashed potatoes?  Yep!  French-fries?  Possibly but more than likely, not. Home fries?  About 80% of the time.  Southerners don't eat sweet potato fries, they eat sweet potato PIE, dammit!

[DonRocks]

I've lived in the south most of my life (one hell of a long time), I've eaten in dives, places two steps from being condemned, places that should have been condemned years ago, and in all that time, I have NEVER seen a good soul food restaurant have sweet potato fries.  Mashed potatoes?  Yep!  French-fries?  Possibly but more than likely, not. Home fries?  About 80% of the time.  Southerners don't eat sweet potato fries, they eat sweet potato PIE, dammit!

The vast majority - if not 100% - of the sweet potato fries you find at DC area restaurants are frozen, and readily available. I don't look at it as a knock at Horace & Dickie's if they choose to include it on their menu, because they go to so little extra trouble to do it.

[Kev29]

I've lived in the south most of my life (one hell of a long time), I've eaten in dives, places two steps from being condemned, places that should have been condemned years ago, and in all that time, I have NEVER seen a good soul food restaurant have sweet potato fries.  Mashed potatoes?  Yep!  French-fries?  Possibly but more than likely, not. Home fries?  About 80% of the time.  Southerners don't eat sweet potato fries, they eat sweet potato PIE, dammit!

Though there's a distinction between Southern food and soul food, no? Even Southern soul food and diasporic soul food?

[DonRocks]

Though there's a distinction between Southern food and soul food, no? Even Southern soul food and diasporic soul food?

I see a potential variation on our Cajun vs. Creole discussion blooming - feel free to begin something like it in Shopping and Cooking.

[goldenticket]

If they're catching the cab at Reagan National, maybe swing by Blue &White in Alexandria and get some fried chicken.

Only if they get in before 3:30 pm on a weekday. I do agree that the Blue & White makes some good fried chicken and I love their beans (whatever kind they have in the pot on a given day). Also, it is a carry-out, so there's no seating.

A bit closer to DCA, in Del Ray, is Mama Reacer's Soul Food.  I haven't tried it, but a trusted friend raves about their fried chicken. The menu includes all the highlights: pig feet, ox tail, and yes, croaker and whiting.  Their hours are also much more accommodating.

[Simul Parikh]

Mama Reachers is very casual on their hours... They just might not be there at a given time. Like breakfast or other random times. Chicken is good, greasy/heavy though. Their greens are really good. Horace and Dickies is so cool. I don't think they have chicken routinely, do they?

I know it's a chain and not the point of this conversation, but Popeye's is really good for soul-ish food. New Orleanians love it. Our tour guide in NOLA took us to Al Copeland's tomb. He was near tears talking about the story of what lead Al to create Popeye's.

It's just not a great sell up here in DMV. The rest of the south, soul food abounds in urban and suburban areas, but I think DC people are much healthier than the rest of the country, so there isn't the proliferation of the chicken shacks and soul food diners you see in the Carolinas, Louisiana, Tennessee, Georgia, etc.

[Escoffier]

Though there's a distinction between Southern food and soul food, no? Even Southern soul food and diasporic soul food?

Not really.  When you're not too far up the economic ladder you eat what you can afford.  Ergo, pigs ears, pigs feet, souse (you can look it up), chitterlings (chittlins would be the "proper" pronunciation), black, white, or green, it's soul food to some, Suthrun (Southern) to others.

(I put the pronunciations in so you can impress your friends with how Suthrun you are )

[Tujague]

Not really.  When you're not too far up the economic ladder you eat what you can afford.  Ergo, pigs ears, pigs feet, souse (you can look it up), chitterlings (chittlins would be the "proper" pronunciation), black, white, or green, it's soul food to some, Suthrun (Southern) to others.

(I put the pronunciations in so you can impress your friends with how Suthrun you are )

So, excuse me if I misunderstand, but there seems to be an equation here between "Southern" and "low-income" that feels off. It seems to me that there is a whole other tradition of cooking that belongs, say, to the plantation mansion or at least to the well-to-do, that most would label as "Southern," but not necessarily as soul food. While I would not elevate them as great examples of anything, where would one place what is served at places like Eatonville or (ugh) Georgia Brown's (or, say, in Asheville, of Tupelo Honey)? I'm not arguing for their quality or authenticity, but I think most would distinguish their offerings more as "Southern" rather than "soul" food.  And isn't low-country cooking its own separate example?

[Escoffier]

I was going to quote the entire entry but figured that might be a bit much.  Food has a tendency to "bubble" up.  Take pork belly as an example.  Once upon a time, anyone who made more than minimum wage wouldn't think of eating it.  Somewhere along the way, it moved from the  hoi polloi to the esoteric.  Same with most foods.  What starts out as table scraps ends up in fine dining.  Did you eat head cheese when you were growing up? Pickled pigs feet?  Did you grow up in the South?  Without sounding snobby (or classist if that's a word), your social status would be known by all.  Soul food is just food that is/was eaten by the "lower class" (hate to use that term, but it's the only accurate description available).  Everyone of a certain economic status, had chickens, everyone (almost) could take a pole, some line and a hook and catch trout or croaker; collards and cressy salad (watercress) was abundant where ever there was a creek (I remember gathering wild watercress when I was a kid (I told you I was old) to add to salads when we'd go camping).  All of those things were "discovered" and elevated up the food chain by people with more money.  Because of the economics, the South and especially the lower economic classes ate what they could find or made do.  Once others farther up the economic ladder discovered that those things were tasty, they moved up from dirt floors and candles for lighting (and yes, I've seen both in my lifetime) to the kitchens of the plantation owners (who incidentally would never eat pork belly or pigs feet or pigs ear, but the people in the kitchen who were cooking for them would).  Make sense now?  (You didn't grow up in the South, did you?)

The following is WAY off topic but, you did mention Asheville.  Have you tried Cucina 24 or Table? While neither are "suthrun", they both do some fine food.

[Tujague]

Thanks. My dad was born and raised in Pineville, Louisiana, and he and my mom met during WWII when stationed near Asheville, but no, little of that got into my growing-up dining, outside of pecan pie (mostly the Midwestern standards, which some might call "farm cooking," even though catfish was plentiful if Dad had been a fisherman). Yes, I've been to Table (best pork chop I ever had). I get what you're saying, about food "bubbling up" the economic classes. But still, as you describe it, it sounds as if what started as "soul food" morphs into something more refined and distinct from its roots, which some would define as "southern" cooking. It feels a bit as if the distinction has to with how closely a food stays to its roots--the more "gussied up," the less it seems to deserve the title of "soul" food, at least to us non-Southerners. Or maybe the analogy I am thinking of is how an ethnic cuisine may change when transplanted into a different context, ergo, one might see southern cooking as soul food transplanted into a different economic context. But yes, it makes sense, how "soul" and "Suthrun" aren't necessarily different.

(Edited: Oy, the autocorrect on my iPad!)

[DonRocks]

More helpfully, yes, it was a flaky fish.

even though catfish was plentiful if Dad had been a fisherman

See, I still disagree that catfish, a bottom feeder, is "a flaky fish."

[darkstar965]

See, I still disagree that catfish, a bottom feeder, is "a flaky fish."

You may never make it there but, if you have a catfish sandwich here, I think it would change your mind. $17 as a dinner platter now. And, can't beat the scenery in this part of "LA"*

Capt. Anderson's

* Nope, not Louisiana or Los Angeles, as explained upthread. :-)

[jderryup]

Oh NO!  Went for my fried chicken and okra fix last night at Flavors and found them closed.  The web site says the lease isn't being renewed and to look for a new location in 2017.  I've been going all of their 20 years in that worn out and defrocked Highs Dairy Store.  Hope they find a place with similar character......

[Bart]

There's a place on Route 1 in FFX county, south of the beltway and north of Ft. Belvoir called "Two Brothers Soul Food.  Unfortunately it's not open yet and it's hard to tell if anything is going on there.  The sign went up about a year ago, and the windows have been covered in paper ever since, but from the outside, it looks the same as it did  last year.