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12 hours ago, DonRocks said:

Where can I find the best Bialys in the DC area?

(Asking for a friend. ;))

I’d like to know too.  Per some extended family lore I’d suggest Kossars although it is in the far outer suburbs of DC.

In the last few years I’ve learned the following from some of my dad’s surviving younger cousins with some perspective.

Estmated at around 100 years ago my paternal grandfather, one brother, and his brother-in-law opened a small business on Grand Street, lower East Side,  about 5 blocks from where Kossars is currently located.  The three of them were immigrants from Bialystok along with many other relatives.  The store grew somewhat and initially everyone who worked there was a relative and native Bialystoker.   Family lore states my grandmother ( a Bialystoker) was the best family baker and made a great original styled bialy.  My dad’s younger cousins have acknowledged that about my paternal grandmother.  They have also said  that in discussion with their elders Kossars was the real and original deal and to the extent they use original recipes that would be my suggestion.   My father and uncle who had more of my grandmother’s bialys than any of their cousins spoke well of Kossars although that long ago nobody kvelled about a bakery as people do today

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Best bialys? How about any bialys? Wegmans to their credit often has bialys in the bagel section, but to their eternal shame they are usually something like "Jalapeno cheddar" or "asiago." So F those.

Speaking of Kossars, their bialys are certainly good enough (and convenient if you're already over there getting donuts at DP), but if you find yourself in Russ & Daughters on Houston St, their bialys are excellent so you can skip one stop if you're in R&D for fish.

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No, no, no, no & no!  Kossar's is only a name with a history and isn't the same place.  It's like remembering Nathan's hot dogs.  The bialys are nothing like they were and, if your friend is asking for the best ones, s/he will probably not like the result.  Unless, of course, there is a complete bialy wilderness out there and any bialy in a storm will do.

eta: I just looked at the linked website.  Its from 2015, I think before the latest sale of the place.  However, even then Ginny & I didn't like them any longer.

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5 minutes ago, Steve R. said:

No, no, no, no & no!  Kossar's is only a name with a history and isn't the same place.  It's like remembering Nathan's hot dogs.  The bialys are nothing like they were and, if your friend is asking for the best ones, s/he will probably not like the result.  Unless, of course, there is a complete bialy wilderness out there and any bialy in a storm will do.

eta: I just looked at the linked website.  Its from 2015, I think before the latest sale of the place.  However, even then Ginny & I didn't like them any longer.

Oh my.  So you are saying the current recipe is not the original.   Oh my oh my.   Devastating!!  I am at a loss.   As a New Yorker what do you suggest???   (As a local I was disappointed in the BreadFurst bialy w/ a crusty exterior more like a bagel). 

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Here is a Look Around the Revamped Kossar's Bialys, by Nick Solares, February 3, 2016, on ny.eater.com.

Quote

The legendary bakery was purchased by current owners Evan Giniger and David Zablocki two years ago, and they have completely overhauled the plumbing and electrical system, remodeled the store, and bolstered the menu.

Mimi Sheraton Tries Kossar's Bialys Post-Renovation, by Robert Sietsema  February 7, 2016, on ny.eater.com.

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55 minutes ago, dcs said:

Here is a Look Around the Revamped Kossar's Bialys, by Nick Solares, February 3, 2016, on ny.eater.com.

Mimi Sheraton Tries Kossar's Bialys Post-Renovation, by Robert Sietsema  February 7, 2016, on ny.eater.com.

We grew up eating onion pletzel in RI, where we also had the best rye bread, known as sissel bread (The story I heard was that the Jewish bakers in RI all came from the same town, so they all had this amazing rye bread recipe). There's still one bakery left in RY that makes sissel bread, Rainbow Bakery in Cranston. Heidelberg Bakery in Arlington makes some pretty decent rye breads, and come to think of it, they may even have bialys too. I like that place.

Our alternative name for onion pletzel was not onion disc, because ours were not round, but onion board. There used to be an old-time bakery down in Boca (where the bagels are terrible; my theory is they are soft so the average customer down there can chew them) called Flakowitz that made amazing, huge onion boards, but it's gone to the great bakery boneyard in the sky.

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On 10/16/2018 at 11:35 AM, Mark Dedrick said:

Bullfrog Bagels has them, at least at the H Street location. 

I haven't had a bialy in a while.  I was curious about this and went by in the morning

Bleh.  Little undersized disks.  They are an afterthought.  I asked for two, one with a spread and one  to take out to try on its own.  I got one w/ a spread.  It was shmeared all over the indentation and the cream cheese lox spread killed any flavor from whatever was in the indentation. 

I was more curious in a general sense.  Overall it seems to me nobody searches for bialys.   I searched for it on google using some "google"analytical tricks.  What it comes down to is nobody looks for bialys to any extent outside of NY.  I'll head over to Heidelburg in the next couple of days.  Actually very good bakery--I hardly stop by there anymore.

 

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On 10/16/2018 at 10:50 AM, DaveO said:

(As a local I was disappointed in the BreadFurst bialy w/ a crusty exterior more like a bagel). 

A few weeks ago, my wife got an bialy at BreadFurst and was so disappointed too. It was so hard it was like a hockey puck of a cracker and once you got to the onion center it had barely any flavor. I love BreadFurst but a few of their items just stink. Luckily most of the stuff is excellent - bakery and non-bakery items.

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10 hours ago, curiouskitkatt said:

add me to that list as well, and what about knishes? I am still in search of a proper knish outside of Manhattan. 

DC really doesn't have good knishes. For that matter neither do most places in Manhattan - most there are reheated gabilla fried ones (dreck compared to baked ones IMHO) or poorly made old ones. The best fresh knish in DC are made at home. I'd recommend the Smitten Kitchen recipe available online. I've been using it for years with a bunch of different fillings but mostly long cooked onions and yellow potatoes like Yukon golds (I like them better than russets). Topped with a little Ba-Tampte mustard.  

Knishes.jpg.6bdada6944b0f6deab62ccc447705e46.jpg

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10 hours ago, curiouskitkatt said:

add me to that list as well, and what about knishes? I am still in search of a proper knish outside of Manhattan. 

Lamenting the loss of Mrs. Stahl's knishes in Brighton Beach. Never had one to come close in DC.

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58 minutes ago, KeithA said:

A few weeks ago, my wife got an bialy at BreadFurst and was so disappointed too. It was so hard it was like a hockey puck of a cracker and once you got to the onion center it had barely any flavor. I love BreadFurst but a few of their items just stink. Luckily most of the stuff is excellent - bakery and non-bakery items.

I completely agree on all levels:   Love BreadFurst:   A few items do stink:   What is the deal on the bialys?  I had one when they were first announced in 2014.   Hard crust then.  I’ve passed on them ever since.  

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21 minutes ago, Mark Slater said:

My first restaurant job when I was a teenager was flipping knishes and egg rolls at Mid Island Mall in Hicksville, NY. 

Must have been those square Coney Island style knishes? Mrs. Stahl's were baked and round with the thinnest dough.

Zabars has knishes at the lunch counter . Was there last December but they were leaden. Definitely a disappointment . 

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I think the problem likely is that they don't sell a lot of them, so they aren't being baked from fresh as often?  It seems like the main complaints above is being hard or dense... which may just be that they are a day old or being re-heated?  Looking at how you make them, it doesn't seem to be terribly complicated, so I am surprised no one could find a good one- unless NY City water or something makes a big difference in the dough taste.

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5 minutes ago, ktmoomau said:

I think the problem likely is that they don't sell a lot of them, so they aren't being baked from fresh as often?  It seems like the main complaints above is being hard or dense... which may just be that they are a day old or being re-heated?  Looking at how you make them, it doesn't seem to be terribly complicated, so I am surprised no one could find a good one- unless NY City water or something makes a big difference in the dough taste.

Initially BreadFurst only did bialys on weekends, but it was regularly scheduled.  I strongly suspect that is their recipe.  It hasn't changed.  They are creating a crusty bialy.  That is far from traditional and simply creates a different kind of roll/bread.  But they know what they are doing.  They have plenty of other wonderful crusty breads.  A bialy is a different type of bread.  I actually don't recall it as dense or not...just a wrong preparation with hard crust versus a softer doughier texture.

Having only been to Bullfrog Bagel once with bialy's in mind, it seemed to me it is an afterthought, or an add on to their bagels.  The bialy itself was appropriate texture.  I simply thought it was an inconsequential little disk shaped thingy, while prepared in a traditional way, not especially tasteful, the indentation was teeny, whatever it was was overwhelmed by a preparation of cream cheese and lox, so I couldn't tell (and frankly they did the shmear wrong covering the indentation and its ingredient(s).  The preparer didn't give me one to go as I asked.  I didn't realize that till she handed me the prepared bialy....and since there were so few on hand, when I went back to take one to go they were all gone.  My gut is bialy's at Bullfrog is an afterthought.  I'd pass on it and wouldn't order a dozen to bring home.

And with all of the above I am now (temporarily) retiring from being overly judgemental  ;)

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1 hour ago, ktmoomau said:

I think the problem likely is that they don't sell a lot of them, so they aren't being baked from fresh as often?  It seems like the main complaints above is being hard or dense... which may just be that they are a day old or being re-heated?  Looking at how you make them, it doesn't seem to be terribly complicated, so I am surprised no one could find a good one- unless NY City water or something makes a big difference in the dough taste.

Even in NYC its hard to find a good bialy.

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2 hours ago, pras said:

Even in NYC its hard to find a good bialy.

So what is the right texture?  I have never had one, but I would try baking some to taste it- it is a bagel that isn't boiled- it doesn't have malt or sugar, and has a little less flour, so I would think it would be somewhat dense and glutenous, but not quite as much as a bagel, it is supposed to be flatter, but a lot of pictures look like it still raises like a bagel?  It would be a little crispier, as well, without the boiling?    

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19 minutes ago, ktmoomau said:

So what is the right texture?  I have never had one, but I would try baking some to taste it- it is a bagel that isn't boiled- it doesn't have malt or sugar, and has a little less flour, so I would think it would be somewhat dense and glutenous, but not quite as much as a bagel, it is supposed to be flatter, but a lot of pictures look like it still raises like a bagel?  It would be a little crispier, as well, without the boiling?    

Oi!!   Good questions.  I've never baked.  These answers are out of my comfort zone. Also in looking at the above responses I don't see anyone who has had a local bialy recently besides the BreadFurst one and the one at BullFrog Bagel.  I wouldn't use either as a model example.

Anyone else??

(Zora:  where are you???)

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This post from foodrepublic.com has Elizabeth Faulkner's recipe adapted for home bakers. The author of the post describes bialy texture as "its outside is matte, not shiny, and it doesn’t have that pull-away crust. Large puffy bubbles characterize the bialy’s innards."

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On 10/17/2018 at 5:46 PM, naxos said:

Lamenting the loss of Mrs. Stahl's knishes in Brighton Beach. Never had one to come close in DC.

Mrs. Stahl's knish recipe is widely available since it was published in the Jewish press and reprinted in an entertaining short book Knish: In Search of the Jewish Soul Food - https://www.wnyc.org/story/recipe-mrs-stahls-potato-knishes/. I will note I don't use this recipe though as I like my onions cooked not raw. I use a similar but slightly different recipe -  https://smittenkitchen.com/2012/03/potato-knish-two-ways/

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On 10/16/2018 at 11:55 AM, Bob Wells said:

Heidelberg Bakery in Arlington makes some pretty decent rye breads, and come to think of it, they may even have bialys too. I like that place.

Per their website Heidelberg has lots of different breads and rolls, including bagels.   But bialys---nope.  No mention.

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14 hours ago, DaveO said:

Per their website Heidelberg has lots of different breads and rolls, including bagels.   But bialys---nope.  No mention.

IMHO their bagels are nothing to write home about.  I have never seen a bialy there, and I have been there a lot.

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The front page of the Georgetown Bagelry on River Road website says they sell bialys.  I must have been to that location more than 25 times and the original location in Georgetown more than 100 times and never ate one.  (My kids ate A LOT of bagels growing up.  Still do.)  It is near my dentist and I will correct this oversight the next time I get my teeth cleaned.

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20 hours ago, dcs said:

The front page of the Georgetown Bagelry on River Road website says they sell bialys.  I must have been to that location more than 25 times and the original location in Georgetown more than 100 times and never ate one.  (My kids ate A LOT of bagels growing up.  Still do.)  It is near my dentist and I will correct this oversight the next time I get my teeth cleaned.

Your mention of the dentist (I've had only three dental offices in 58 years and been going to the one in Columbia MD since 1989) reminded me that the Bagel Bin in Columbia and Clarksville MD has bialys. My go-to bagel there is the Black Russian, BTW. 

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On 10/15/2018 at 10:44 PM, DonRocks said:

Where can I find the best Bialys in the DC area?

(Asking for a friend. ;))

My gut and guess is that virtually nobody looks for bialys in the DC area let alone most of the nation save NYC and possibly LA and Philadelphia.   Parenthetically I think Bethesda Bagel made them 2 decades ago.  If so they dropped them- not enough demand.

Sometimes google can provide an insight on demand...or at least “demand” as measured by search requests.

If you use a google tool called “Google Trends”. You can compare the popularity and volume of search terms.  Ty it.  I compared bagels,  challah, and bialys.   There is literally no search volume for bialys per the tool.  

I then tried “google suggest”.  You type in the first word(s) of a phrase and google will suggest the most popular words that follow.

I tried “bialys in...”. and the following terms used most frequently are New York and Brooklyn.  A couple of large cities after Brooklyn.   DC didn’t 

make the cut.

Lastly that goofy looking search result in

google for a search for “Bialys DC” circa 2013-2014 ( shown above) was a function of 2 things:

1. ”bialy dom” is a place in Poland that translates in English to White House

2 There was evidently nothing on any websites for DC businesses back then that  strongly referenced bialys.   Hence the White House as the google result.  

My quick thought is if you want a good bialy in DC go to NYC

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4 minutes ago, dcs said:

Do you know what Yelp lists as the number 1 place to get bialys in the Washington, D.C. area?  Brooklyn Bagel Bakery in Arlington.

Hm.  I stopped by on a weekday afternoon to check.   No bialys.  I didn’t recognize any of the staff.   I haven’t been by on a weekend morning in ages though.  Possibly they bake bialys Sunday and Saturday mornings.   I wouldn’t know.

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51 minutes ago, DaveO said:

Hm.  I stopped by on a weekday afternoon to check.   No bialys.  I didn’t recognize any of the staff.   I haven’t been by on a weekend morning in ages though.  Possibly they bake bialys Sunday and Saturday mornings.   I wouldn’t know.

They don't sell bialys.  Just like Yelp doesn't fact check Yelpers' posts.

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They have bialys at little red fox in DC on the weekends, sourced from Bullfrog they tell me.  Never had one before, this thread inspired me to investigate.

The onion in the middle seemed tiny compared to other bialys I see on the Google machine.  I sliced and toasted it, it was good with cream cheese and smoked salmon, or just a little butter. 

I'll probably switch it up and get one of these instead of a bagel, if the batch looks good (with more onion!).   

Bialy.JPG

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