Cakelove, Warren Brown's Visionary (Admit It) Cupcake Empire - Shifting Business Models and Closed Dec 31, 2015

[DC in DC]

I'm really confused by this whole refrigeration thing.  I believe it's a red herring.  Or maybe I don't know anything about health codes (more likely).  But I bake a lot , and I make a lot of buttercream icings.  They can be held at cool room temperature for a day at least (my cakes seldom last longer than that).  Cool  room temp, not warm, but not refrigerator cold, either.  Can't CakeLove/LoveCafe get some proper storage for items likely to be consumed soon after purchase?

As someone else pointed out, why wouldn't he just have a certain number of cupcakes, cake slices (whatever) that have warmed to room temp for sale? It seems ridiculous to sell something that is supposed to be ready-to-eat, and then told that I should wait until it has warmed up? Why hasn't that already taken place? (Especially if he is getting bad press about it such that he's made up those "cute" palm cards.)

[monavano]

Cupcakes need to come with instruction?? Way too high maintenence for me. I just want to eat them....

[DanielK]

Cupcakes need to come with instruction?? Way too high maintenence for me. I just want to eat them....

Especially since cupcakes can be an impulse buy. You go in looking for a cake for that evening, and decide to buy a cupcake for RIGHT NOW. Not for an hour from RIGHT NOW.

[tastedc]

My impression of all his icings are that they are more butter than buttercream, so the question is what is the best temperature to serve butter? And doesn't butter really melt well on your tongue, I mean haven't you ever put the really hard butter served to you on bread and taken a bite and allowed the butter to melt lovingly down your throat? I think his cakes and cupcakes are really just one more excuse to add this lovingly rich fat to your diet, they are not produced for subtle nuance..

[mdt]

My impression of all his icings are that they are more butter than buttercream...

Um, what is that supposed to mean?

[mame11]

Um, what is that supposed to mean? 

You read my mind. I had typed the exact same thing and decided not to post it.

I was at a Balducci's tonight and they had a range of cupcakes. $1.70 each. Didn't try one but I am willing to bet that they are better than Cakelove.

[crackers]

I mean haven't you ever put the really hard butter served to you on bread and taken a bite and allowed the butter to melt lovingly down your throat? 

uh... no? I want the cupcake icing to mingle with the moist cupcake in my mouth, chewing it into one big mushed up wad before washing it all down with ice cold milk. That's what I want, but these sound more like a hard lump of butter going down first followed by dried cupcake. That's just ewwwww. Edited November 10, 2005 by crackers

[Meaghan]

uh... no?  I want the cupcake icing to mingle with the moist cupcake in my mouth, chewing it into one big mushed up wad before washing it all down with ice cold milk. That's what I want, not a hard lump of butter going down first followed by dried cupcake.  That's just ewwwww.

Actually a bite of a Cakelove cupcake, void the proper 15-45 minute warming up (errand running) time, is much like hard butter as opposed to mingle-moist. I get it.

[Heather]

Um, what is that supposed to mean? 

Bad ratio? With butter cream there's a fine line between creamy and greasy. Anecdotal evidence suggests that Cakelove may cross that line.

[mdt]

In an article about Warren, after he first started, he stated that "The Art of Cake" by Bruce Healy was one of his favorite references. Maybe he should pull that excellent resource back out and re-read the buttercream recipe.

[porcupine]

Bad ratio?  With butter cream there's a fine line between creamy and greasy.  Anecdotal evidence suggests that Cakelove may cross that line.

I'm thinking an expedition Friday 'round lunchtime is in order. I'm going to have to take one for the team. Anybody working in the area up for it?

[Barbara]

I'm thinking an expedition Friday 'round lunchtime is in order.  I'm going to have to take one for the team.  Anybody working in the area up for it?

It's within walking distance, so I would be glad to join you.

[LoganCircle]

Me too.

And I vote we call our order in 20 minutes before our arrival so they can heat up to room temperature.

Edited November 10, 2005 by LoganCircle

[porcupine]

Me too.

And I vote we call our order in 20 minutes before our arrival so they can heat up to room temperature.

How about one oc'clock? Barbara, did I meet you at the 2941 dinner? LoganCircle, how will I know you?

[LoganCircle]

How about one oc'clock?  Barbara, did I meet you at the 2941 dinner?  LoganCircle, how will I know you?

1:00 works for me.

I'll be the one with the giant post-Oohhs and Aahhs grin . You can't miss me - 6'6", young looking, in jeans, a black hoodie, and a black jacket.

[Gastro888]

They're now hiring at the SS location.

I hope they have Key Lime cupcakes there. I had one earlier this year for the first time and it was quite yummy.

Then again, it was left out of the fridge overnight so that could explain alot...

[jm chen]

So... how were the cupcakes? Or are y'all still waiting for them to warm up?

[Barbara]

So... how were the cupcakes? Or are y'all still waiting for them to warm up?

LoganCircle used the scientific method. I hope his pictures come out. I expect he and Porcupine will offer a more detailed review. We sampled 5 cupcakes and a humongous (what's up with that?) slice of chocolate cake with vanilla icing. There seemed to be a consensus that the vanilla icing was the same on the cake as on the cupcakes, but went better with the chocolate cake. We also seemed to think that the cupcakes were too dry. I dunno. I don't understand opening up a bakery/dessert shop and serving such mundane stuff. Particularly when you figure that one cupcake, one slice of cake (though huge) and a cup of ordinary coffee cost $12 .

I considered trying the pumpkin cheesecake (there were several kinds available), but I make a pretty terrific one myself, so didn't bother. It didn't LOOK as good as mine.

The company was better than the food. What a surprise with THIS crowd. And it was a gorgeous afternoon, so all was not lost.

[porcupine]

So... how were the cupcakes? Or are y'all still waiting for them to warm up?

good one. Y'know, I was lukewarm on them. I don't think they're good, nor do I thnk they're as bad as many claim. It was interesting that certain cakes were dryer than others; all were certainly more dense than I care for. The buttercream was just... bland? Sort of boring. I couldn't taste lemon in the lemon buttercream. The orange buttercream tasted like it had been made with essence or extract (a pet peeve, I'll admit), so I didn't care for it. There was a bit of refrigerator odor on the cupcakes, which dissipated in a few minutes, but still it was offputting.

I still wonder if there isn't some health code forcing storage at such cold temps. The product certainly doesn't take it well.

I don't quite get it, honestly. I can make better at home, but then I don't have mass production, economic, and storage issues to contend with.

Summary: if you're in the area, and don't mind spending three bucks a cupcake, and are having a desperate craving... why not? Otherwise, pass.

PS - took advantage of being in the area to get in some shopping, and had a late snack at Julia's Empanadas. Mmmmmmm. Now that's a bargain.

PPS - think I'll post some recipes on the Shopping and Cooking forum later

Edited November 11, 2005 by porcupine

[LoganCircle]

I've been a detractor of Cakelove in the past, mainly because of the lardlike taste of the chilled buttercream frosting. After taking Mr. Brown's recommendation to let their cupcakes come up to room temperature, I will admit that they are at least 2 or 3 times better than I remember, but not 10,000 times better.

Barbara, Mr. Barbara, Porcupine and I shared 5 cupcakes and one slice of cake. The cake was vanilla on chocolate and the cupcakes were vanilla with vanilla frosting, chocolate with orange frosting, new german chocolate, and two others that I didn't sample.

I ordered the vanilla-on-vanilla and New German Chocolate cupcakes along with the sweetest vanilla latte ever served. I hadn't eaten anything all day so waiting for the cupcakes to thaw was torturous. I was served the cakes at 1:00pm, waited until 1:20 to take my first bites, and then took my second bites around 1:45.

The nitty-gritty

Vanilla-on-Vanilla cupcake:

1:00pm - cold cake, icing appears lard-like and can be etched into in the same manner as clay

1:20 - cake has come up to room temperature and is dense but good, icing has warmed slightly and demonstrates more fluff and give when etched in. Icing is overpoweringly buttery and none too appealing.

1:45 - cake same as before but the icing, which is softer and oozey, is now downright good, with the taste of sweetness equally as noticeable as the taste of butter.

New German chocolate cupcake:

1:00 - cold cake, cold but pretty icing with coconut and nuts.

1:20 - cake is room temperature and is dense and extremely dry, icing has thawed more than on the aforementioned cake and is pretty yummy.

1:45 - cake is still dry but the thawed icing is very yummy.

All in all, I left with a better impression of their room-temperature products than I'd started the afternoon with. Still, as Tom S. said, their products are not to my taste. By every indication the marketing genius continues--the group behind me in line was talking to the bakery manager (I think) from across the street, going on about how she'd seen Mr. Brown on the Food Network, etc. The baker made a point to tell her 3 times to eat their products at room temperature. Saying they didn't have time to wait for something to heat up to an acceptable warmth, they split a piece of cheesecake instead. They were the realization of an issue that has been raised here repeatedly: who can buy a cupcake or slice of cake in a cafe and wait more than half an hour to eat it as it should be eaten?

My photography skills are poopy, but I took a couple of photos during the trial. I etched the times of service and first tasting into the icing on the vanilla-on-vanilla cupcake. I hoped that would allow one to see the differences in texture. I'm not sure I succeeded.

1:00pm

1:20pm

At $3.30 per cupcake, there's a lot of money in here .

Edited November 11, 2005 by LoganCircle

[Capital Icebox]

Cakelove is the cover story for the Washington City Paper this week. Not up online yet -- should be tomorrow. At a glance, it seems the room-temperature debate is covered in the article.

Edited to add: our estimable host and Tom S. are featured in the piece as well.

That's twice this year that Donrockwell.com has figured into a City Paper story.

Edited November 17, 2005 by Capital Icebox

[giant shrimp]

imagine my enormous disappointment last night when the cake love show was preempted by special thanksgiving programming. after a mere three episodes are they ready for reruns? i mean, give the audience a chance to warm up to it.

[bilrus]

I had my first Cakelove experience last night at a friends birthday party. I'll preface this by saying that I really like Giant's birthday cakes - very sweet frosting and, for the most part, moistcake - so you can use that as a guide.

But I actually thought the Cakelove cake last night was pretty good. Room temperature, moist enough, mildly sweet. Two types of icing, neither of which were buttercream as far as I could tell.

I wouldn't go out of my way for it, but it worked.

[mdt]

Cakelove is the cover story for the Washington City Paper this week.  Not up online yet -- should be tomorrow.  At a glance, it seems the room-temperature debate is covered in the article.

Edited to add:  our estimable host and Tom S. are featured in the piece as well.

That's twice this year that Donrockwell.com has figured into a City Paper story.

Not to mention some quotes from some of our esteemed members.

And they hope to open a place in Clarendon next year. Ugh.

Edited November 18, 2005 by mdt

[mame11]

Not to mention some quotes from some of our esteemed members. 

And they hope to open a place in Clarendon next year.  Ugh.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.... I wanted a good bakery.

Runs to corner, sits and sulks.

(the triple space is for effect.)

[bilrus]

I had my first Cakelove experience last night at a friends birthday party.  I'll preface this by saying that I really like Giant's birthday cakes - very sweet frosting and, for the most part, moistcake - so you can use that as a guide.

But I actually thought the Cakelove cake last night was pretty good.  Room temperature, moist enough, mildly sweet.  Two types of icing, neither of which were buttercream as far as I could tell.

I wouldn't go out of my way for it, but it worked.

Now I see from the article that there is no frosting or icing there. And I determined that the cake we had was the ganache variety with perhaps buttercream between layers.

[brian]

"Where can I buy a nice cake that’s not made by [Palena owner and pastry chef] Ann Amernick or…something that’s going to require me to take out a loan?”

If they included this quote from Sietsema, I wish they'd also addressed CakeLove's products being priced about 50% higher across the board than Firehook and three times as much as Heller's.

[giant shrimp]

I had my first Cakelove experience last night at a friends birthday party.  I'll preface this by saying that I really like Giant's birthday cakes - very sweet frosting and, for the most part, moistcake - so you can use that as a guide.

But I actually thought the Cakelove cake last night was pretty good.  Room temperature, moist enough, mildly sweet.  Two types of icing, neither of which were buttercream as far as I could tell.

I wouldn't go out of my way for it, but it worked.

my wife once ordered a white birthday cake from ann amernick because i told her i liked them. i know what you're talking about, the chef told my wife, like the cakes they sell at giant. it's not something she ordinarily would do, but the cake -- big surprise -- was better than what you could buy at giant.

in the opening weeks of her bakery in cleveland park, my wife went to amernick with the expectation that you probably needed to order cakes ahead of time. i told her to get anything, i was sure it would be good. her cake expectations were confirmed by the young woman at the counter -- no cakes. then she went through a list of what they sold, and was turned down on each item -- until she got to the cookies. no cookies, as well. what about these cookies in the display case, she asked. oh, those are just for display, she was told. not quite ready to return home empty-handed, she asked what the two girls on stools at the counter were eating. they brought that in with them, she was told. the story does have a happy ending: eventually we were able to buy cookies -- tiny and terrific -- and move onto cakes, the best of which by far were inspired by ann amernick and not an off-the-wall special request.

some years later, in the opening weeks of cake love the vibes are good, so my wife makes a telephone call. do you have any cakes, she asks. no, she is told. we are still waiting for a happy ending to that story.

Edited November 18, 2005 by giant shrimp

[V.H.]

I'm not sure how they'll do in Clarendon. On the one hand, there's tons of foot traffic and the only other places to get baked goods would be the Cheesecake Factory or Whole Foods so it would certainly appeal to folks who don't want to get in a car or buy pastries from a chain. On the other hand, I personally think the cakes at Cheesecake Factory and Whole Foods are generally tastier than the stuff from Cakelove. Additionally, a short drive away from Clarendon are Randolph's and Heidelberg's, which both make knock out cakes and pastries that happen to also be delicious at any temperature. I don't see customers from either of those stores becoming customers of Cakelove. Certainly at his price point, there are lots of better options in the North Arlingon area.

[Capital Icebox]

Some random thoughts on the Cakelove article in the City Paper:

1. Warren Brown is a bit offbeat -- from his manifestos on "Cake Passion" to his Model Tank Cakes for Peace, this guy seems a bit nutty. Which is a must in the food industry, as I understand it.

2. He is also an expansionist, looking to put five to six stores in metropolitan areas across the world, including, but not limited to, Japan. He's even considering a line of candy bars. Remember, Brown tells us, "'Make Cakelove, not war' only is possible if the community doesn't have walls."

3. He was never a high-priced corporate lawyer, but rather worked on fraud litigation at HHS. Get it, fraud litigation?

4. Judith Weinraub has some 'splaining to do.

[Tweaked]

I'm not sure how they'll do in Clarendon. 

Are you kidding, a bunch of "trendy" 20s/30s somethings all living in boring high rise apartment buildings spending their time sipping Starbucks, browsing at Barnes and Noble, and spending their weekends at the Container Store, he's going to make a killing

[mame11]

Are you kidding, a bunch of "trendy" 20s/30s somethings all living in boring high rise apartment buildings spending their time sipping Starbucks, browsing at Barnes and Noble, and spending their weekends at the Container Store, he's going to make a killing 

Hey, I am one of those people... I do live in a boring apartment. But I have taste and my taste does not include CakeLove. Give me better please. Of course, the nice thing is that I won't be tempted or interested in the place so my body will be grateful. Hmmm...

[Capital Icebox]

Any of you wanting to ask the man himself about his cakes, there'll be an opportunity to do so tomorrow:

"Cake Talk -- Warren Brown, owner of Cakelove and star of "Sugar Rush" will be online Thursday at 11 a.m. ET to discuss the sweet life."

[mdt]

Any of you wanting to ask the man himself about his cakes, there'll be an opportunity to do so tomorrow:

"Cake Talk -- Warren Brown, owner of Cakelove and star of "Sugar Rush" will be online Thursday at 11 a.m. ET to discuss the sweet life."

This is great publicity for him, but is this going to become a regular event?

[DC in DC]

I have to say that I benefitted from all the hoopola over the waiting period for CakeLove cupcakes-- yesterday I made carrot cake cupcakes that needed to be refrigerated (because of the cream cheese frosting) for an office function. I remembered to take them out of the fridge 30 min beforehand to get to room temp. Never would have thought of it otherwise (I am a novice baker.)

[Capital Icebox]

From Warren's chat:

"We store all of our perishable products under refrigeration to protect our customers from food borne illness. We have to do this. The health department mandates it. Were we to store our cakes with buttercream, eclairs and buzz balls with pastry cream, and cheesecakes at room temp they would be a health hazard."

I am skeptical here. Are bakeries required to store their goods with buttercream frosting in a fridge? Do other bakeries in the area do the same as Cakelove?

[DC in DC]

From Warren's chat:

"We store all of our perishable products under refrigeration to protect our customers from food borne illness. We have to do this. The health department mandates it. Were we to store our cakes with buttercream, eclairs and buzz balls with pastry cream, and cheesecakes at room temp they would be a health hazard."

I am skeptical here.  Are bakeries required to store their goods with buttercream frosting in a fridge?  Do other bakeries in the area do the same as Cakelove?

Or more to the point, couldn't some number be taken out and warmed to room temp for same-day sale? I'm sure a business person can figure out which cupcakes are best-sellers and how many to have ready. I am very confused as to why this can't happen.

[Capital Icebox]

Or more to the point, couldn't some number be taken out and warmed to room temp for same-day sale? I'm sure a business person can figure out which cupcakes are best-sellers and how many to have ready.  I am very confused as to why this can't happen.

Right -- as he says in the chat, they have a rotating supply of room-temp slices of cake so customers won't have to wait for it to warm up (unless the rotating supply happens to sell out). Can't they do this with the cupcakes?

[Michael Landrum]

Is it possible to make cake into something you hate? Never in my life did I think that cake, and having cake, could be something so bad, so wrong, so hateful.

Who would do such a thing? Why?

Reading up-thread I am shocked--shocked--to see that there is any debate at all about this awfulness. Not just the product, but the entire CakeHate experience--a grotesque, horrible perversion of the beauty, wonder and joy that is cake.

Are we really that stupid now? Is this what we have become?

[giant shrimp]

Is it possible to make cake into something you hate?  Never in my life did I think that cake, and having cake, could be something so bad, so wrong, so hateful.

Who would do such a thing?  Why?

Reading up-thread I am shocked--shocked--to see that there is any debate at all about this awfulness.  Not just the product, but the entire CakeHate experience--a grotesque, horrible perversion of the beauty, wonder and joy that is cake.

Are we really that stupid now?  Is this what we have become?

sounds like the situation is getting worse. i think this cake guy is interesting to watch on television. he appears to be affectless and nothing seems on the level. he has been on the air for several weeks but has never warmed up. he's cool and friendly at the same time and it's hard to believe you're seeing nothing but pretense. his cooking demonstrations are unbelievably lame. he tries to butter up the viewers. it's sort of like george bush coming into your home. we had to wait 17 minutes last night to find out that desperate housewives was a rerun.

[CrescentFresh]

Is it possible to make cake into something you hate?  Never in my life did I think that cake, and having cake, could be something so bad, so wrong, so hateful.

Who would do such a thing?  Why?

Reading up-thread I am shocked--shocked--to see that there is any debate at all about this awfulness.  Not just the product, but the entire CakeHate experience--a grotesque, horrible perversion of the beauty, wonder and joy that is cake.

Are we really that stupid now?  Is this what we have become?

sounds like the situation is getting worse. i think this cake guy is interesting to watch on television. he appears to be affectless and nothing seems on the level. he has been on the air for several weeks but has never warmed up. he's cool and friendly at the same time and it's hard to believe you're seeing nothing but pretense. his cooking demonstrations are unbelievably lame. he tries to butter up the viewers. it's sort of like george bush coming into your home. we had to wait 17 minutes last night to find out that desperate housewives was a rerun.

Methinks Sir Loin of Beef doth tuggeth on thy lower limb.

[Michael Landrum]

I think I had the utmost of the "Are You Kidding Me?" moments recently. At a highly regarded, world-famous, TV Star-headed bakery--which shall remain nameless--I paid $8 for a piece of cake that was the single worst thing I have ever put in my mouth, not having spent any time in prison yet.

[Stretch]

I think I had the utmost of the "Are You Kidding Me?" moments recently.  At a highly regarded, world-famous, TV Star-headed bakery--which shall remain nameless--I paid $8 for a piece of cake that was the single worst thing I have ever put in my mouth, not having spent any time in prison yet.

No more love for you!

Now you go. And never come back.

[hungry prof]

I think I had the utmost of the "Are You Kidding Me?" moments recently.  At a highly regarded, world-famous, TV Star-headed bakery--which shall remain nameless--I paid $8 for a piece of cake that was the single worst thing I have ever put in my mouth, not having spent any time in prison yet.

Just substitute "steak" for "cake" and you have the new Ray's the Steaks logo:

[DonRocks]

Flays the cakes.

[brendanc]

Flays the cakes.

"tries to bake?"

not you michael

[Michael Landrum]

Hmmm...I am in a neighborhood whose whole resurgence is predicated on being the cultural heart and soul of Black Washington, but still is the center of much inner city poverty and all of poverty's attendant ills--illiteracy, malnutrition, violence, lack of job opprtunity, no social services or community centers to care for semi-abandoned children. And I sell a piece of cake for $8 and I give you the same kind of pictogram that is used to instruct illiterates to watch out for "Piso Mojado" and how to assemble Big Macs for $6/hour no benefits.

Is insult to injury now funny or cute? Is this how you honor your community, by shaming it? Is this what we reward now with wealth and fame?

Whose idea of Love is this, Cake or otherwise?

Are you kidding me?

Edited December 22, 2005 by Michael Landrum

[Mark Slater]

Is insult to injury now funny or cute?  Is this how you honor your community, by shaming it?  Is this what we reward now with wealth and fame?[/size] Are you kidding me?

Good point, Michael. I have to agree. Can I have a TV show now, too?

[DonRocks]

Hmmm...I am in a neighborhood whose whole resurgence is predicated on being the cultural heart and soul of Black Washington, but still is the center of much inner city poverty and all of poverty's attendant ills--illiteracy, malnutrition, violence, lack of job opprtunity, no social services or community centers to care for semi-abandoned children.  And I sell a piece of cake for $8 and I give you the same kind of pictogram that is used to instruct illiterates to watch out for "Piso Mojado" and how to assemble Big Macs for $6/hour no benefits. 

Is insult to injury now funny or cute?  Is this how you honor your community, by shaming it?  Is this what we reward now with wealth and fame?

Whose idea of Love is this, Cake or otherwise?

Are you kidding me?

Let me respond, not as "moderator," but as a regular old poster and devil's(-food cake) advocate: can anyone really blame Warren Brown for stepping into his celebrity? Yes, some things in life can be annoying, but who would turn it down? I've never seen the TV show, but from what I've gleaned, this whole glasses-wearing dreadlock-sporting hippy-esque cake-loving thing is a big ol' schtick, plain and simple, and has nothing to do with the actual cake at this point, other than the cake being a theme and launching point. Give Brown a crewcut and take off his specs, and he's no longer a tele-marketable commodity. So that makes 10,385 image-driven personae on the tube instead of 10,384, but that doesn't make the guy a bad person, in-the-wrong, or even vacuous, does it? Okay, all this having been said: I fully support calling people down on riding a PR-wave not supported by underlying substance, so if his cakes really suck with such desperation, intensity and fervor, then carry on and nail him for having the gall to open more bakeries, but not for merely being famous.

Cheers,

Rocks

[B.A.R.]

The only thing I have ever had from Cakelove is one cupcake. When I think of a cupcake, I think of soft, light cake topped with fluffy, rich icing.

What I got was a terrible rendition of a wedding cake in a "cupcake" form. The execution of such a basic dish was so bad, I wouldn't consider going back.

As for the owner's fame, good for him.