Cakelove, Warren Brown's Visionary (Admit It) Cupcake Empire - Shifting Business Models and Closed Dec 31, 2015

[mdt]

Article in the post today. Not only is he going to host a new show on Food Network, but he is expanding and opening up another Cakelove in Silver Spring. Had anyone had anything good from either of his current places lately? The last time I was there, many moons ago, I was unimpressed by the dry cupcakes with heavy frosting.

[bookluvingbabe]

I really want to like them, especially since there are so few cupcake places around these days. (Still mourning the end of Amernicks...)

But the frosting is too heavy and sweet and I always feel like I've eaten a stick of butter when I'm done.

I will say the strawberry frosting does have a nice flavor if you can get past the butter intensity.

Jennifer

[JPW]

Never had anything straight from the bakery, but Mrs JPW and I once stopped by the cafe on U St.

Frankly, all three pastries we tried were drier than the Sahara dessert and appeared to be the day old (or 2 or 3) leavings from the bakery.

[cjsadler]

I thought I'd retry the cupcakes (had them a couple times in the past and didn't much care for them) as I was down that way during the U Street "Dog Days" thing last week and the cupcakes were half price (apparently regular price is now $3... jeez). It was pretty dry and the buttercream is about 99.99% butter. Took one bite and threw it in the trash.

[Jason]

I've never had anything good there. The cupcakes are awful. The guy is great at marketing though.

[jm chen]

Used to have a rapturous experience every time I picked up his buttercream. Haven't been there in at least two years. But when my boyfriend lived two blocks away it was all too easy to cruise by and pick out a winner.

Only ate at Love Cafe once but my strawberry cake slice would have fed three. No problem with dryness that I recall.

[LoganCircle]

Last night we ordered several pieces of cake--one each of "The New German Chocolate," Vanilla on Vanilla, and Strawberry Shortcake--as well as a single vanilla cupcake. The german chocolate was voted the best, and all had been built according to the same cakelove formula: super dense cake (I don't know why, but I think of it as dense, not dry) and that chilled, pastelike buttercream frosting.

We were so full from dinner that we each had a few forkfulls and took the rest home. This morning I woke expecting to have half a giant slice of room-temperture german chocolate cake for breakfast, only to find that overnight the buttercream frosting had become a runny pool of goo and the 3 layers of cake had separated. Yummy as ever, but not nearly as pretty. There's a real rub here with the icing needing to be chilled to keep its form and needing to be room temperature to maximize its taste. It's as if you have to wait for and not exceed the 20-minute window of good cake-i-ness.

Talk about marketing success, though. Everyone I know shells out major cash to buy Cakelove cakes on special occasions.

I WANT MAGNOLIA BAKERY CUPCAKES IN DC!

[bookluvingbabe]

I WANT MAGNOLIA BAKERY CUPCAKES IN DC!

Amen!

[Capital Icebox]

I picked up a "My Downfall" choclate cake for Capital Icebox's better half's birthday last week. Let me add to the chorus lamenting the arid cupcakes that the cake has the same problem. The frosting layers are good, a bit buttery, but not too sweet. The cake, however, lacks flavor (I was expecting a chocolate experience similar to Power's chocolate bar -- big mistake) and is very dry. No moist, spongy cake here -- just densley packed flour. If that's your type of cake, go for it. But I felt like I had embarked on a geological survey and this cake was the Negev desert.

As for the TV show -- isn't the CW that once you get your own show on Food TV, your food isn't much good anymore? Or is it that your cooking wasn't that great in the first place? Perhaps a topic for a new thread....

[Pool Boy]

Mrs. TJ once ordered some cakes from him back when he first struck out on his own, I think back in 2001, for a coworker's birthday. He even delivered it himself. Tres kewl and delicious too. We had a few more cakes that we have very much enjoyed, most recently probably about two years ago.

[Woodleygrrl]

I agree with many of you: I had the driest cupcakes in the planet there. I really really want to like this place, but the sweets are kind of expensive and not that great fror what you are getting.

I would rather go to Whole Foods on P and get cupcakes from their bakery.

[mxyzptlk]

I had the strawberry cake from their cafe a couple of months ago and it was very dry. The cake itself was dry and the whipped cream, or whatever that white fluffy stuff on there was, was pretty bad tasting. Looked damn nice, though. I actually think that I got a little bit of digestive issues from the cake that day. I had a companion with me and she agreed that it was not so good and she also had digestive issues later that night. I haven't been back since.

[DonRocks]

From everything I've heard about Cakelove, there's nothing not to like about it.

Except the actual product.

[Capital Icebox]

From everything I've heard about Cakelove, there's nothing not to like about it.

Except the actual product.

To elucidate (I think), cakelove, for some, runs on legend. Everyone I've ever heard from about cakelove has wondered at the fact that he used to be a lawyer and quit his soulless job to open up a succesful bakery. No one has wondered at his cakes.

[DCMark]

From everything I've heard about Cakelove, there's nothing not to like about it.

Except the actual product.

Don, you hit the nail on the head.

[silentbob]

I WANT MAGNOLIA BAKERY CUPCAKES IN DC!

That's funny, most of my NYC friends believe that Magnolia is WAY overrated and undeserving of hype in the same way that Cakelove is here. I've tried Magnolia cupcakes twice and have only been whelmed.

Never been to Cakelove, and judging from everyone's comments, probably never will.

[mdt]

My guess is that most people have not had a decent cake with well made buttercream before. Since most of the press this guy gets is positive they figure what they are getting is a quality product.

[Jonu]

Speaking of "dryness" of WB's baked goods:

I was lucky(?) enough to be at Love Cafe a few months ago when WB was walking around with a plate of his new energy-bar-like creation made of toasted oats, dried fruit, nuts, honey, and spices. He gave out small pieces for people to try and tell him what they thought of the bar. Albeight aromatic from generously added spices, my mouth went dessicating--the bar was too hard (not chewy) and rather harsh like the way small, hard pieces scrape your mouth. It was not meant to be a crunchy bar, I assure you.

I wonder if WB thinks his baked goods are dry... If he can't taste the dryness, how would he ever create moist cakes and bars?

On a different note, I think it is ironic that LoveCafe often smells so strongly of bacon (for their BLT), instead of baked goods. I understand that they are baked across the street, but looking at the neat rows of cupcakes while smelling bacon is an interesting experience.

[mame11]

Actually Magnolia aren't even close to being the best cupcakes in New York. I am a fan of a place called Crumb in New York. Expensive, oh of course but truely incredible. When I was in New York for work earlier this year I took some to a client and made quite the impression.

Yummm... and I think Cake Love is nothing but a marketing sucess... wouldn't wish any of their baked goods on my worst enemy. I tried to love Cake Love but come on, quality is key

[AlliK]

To elucidate (I think), cakelove, for some, runs on legend.  Everyone I've ever heard from about cakelove has wondered at the fact that he used to be a lawyer and quit his soulless job to open up a succesful bakery.  No one has wondered at his cakes.

Yes - seems like the place allows people to vicariously live out the fantasy of leaving the desk job and opening a food business!

[Audrey2025]

I really like the chocolate cupcakes with lime icing.

I'm sure I've had (and made) tastier cupcakes before, but it's the whole package: his personality, the presentation, the unusual flavors...I've just felt treated and comforted every time I've gotten Cake Love.

I have a friend who works at nearby Arena Stage, and she says he's very active in the community and gives freely of his time and resources.

[Lydia R]

This afternoon I had a New German Chocolate cupcake at the cafe. Too bad I hadn't caught up on DR.com first. Agree about the over the top richness of the topping/frosting. The cake portion was dense, but I'd attributed it to it's icebox temp. Glad I didn't bring one home.

At least I got to drive by some of the Ethiopian restaurants folks have raved about nearby.

[Barbara]

Yes - seems like the place allows people to vicariously live out the fantasy of leaving the desk job and opening a food business!

I think that's exactly it. I went into Cakelove some time ago, just to see what all the fuss was about. I walked out emptyhanded. Nothing struck my fancy. I LUV, LUV, LUV Warren Brown's story and so wanted to find Nirvana, but no dice. I wish him well and am very happy he chose U Street; but . . . you HAVE to deliver the goods.

[cleothecat]

I've never had anything from Cakelove that was remotely edible. I would never waste the calories again. For those of you who are cookie, cupcake and muffin lovers, try Baked and Wired on Thomas Jefferson in Georgetown. The doughnut muffins are worth every addition to my hips.

[lizzie]

I am in agreement with the general consensus here - CakeLove's legend far exceeds its quality. For a basic, but great, moist cupcake, at only $1/each - Pastries by Randolph on Lee Highway. It is the only place we buy cupcakes.

[zoramargolis]

Actually Magnolia aren't even close to being the best cupcakes in New York.  I am a fan of a place called Crumb in New York.  Expensive, oh of course but truely incredible.  When I was in New York for work earlier this year I took some to a client and made quite the impression. 

My daughter just spent a few days in NYC and brought home some cupcakes from Sugar Sweet Sunshine on Rivington Street. They were fabulous, and cost less than CakeLove's, where I went once out of curiosity and was seriously underwhelmed.

[nyani]

I am in agreement with the general consensus here - CakeLove's legend far exceeds its quality.  For a basic, but great, moist cupcake, at only $1/each - Pastries by Randolph on Lee Highway.  It is the only place we buy cupcakes.

Yes to Pastries by Randolph! I think that they are the best place from which to order cakes in the area- reasonably priced and decorators who know how to write on cakes (as much as I love Reeve's from time to time- they do a poor job with cake decorations). I've never been disappointed by them.

[rvanrens]

I am in agreement with the general consensus here - CakeLove's legend far exceeds its quality.  For a basic, but great, moist cupcake, at only $1/each - Pastries by Randolph on Lee Highway.  It is the only place we buy cupcakes.

Yes! Yes! They are Sooooooo awesome...the yellow cake with chocolate frosting are the best...every couple of months, I need to drive down to Arlington to pick up a couple, just 'cause I miss 'em so...

Rob

[giant shrimp]

the sign at marvelous market in georgetown says the cakes are from cake love, so i am assuming that our two-layer raspberry chocolate job was also. the cake is real nice to look at, plain in a way, but all dressed up in pink with nice traditional decoration, though not a raspberry in sight. the raspberry flavor comes on a bit strong and is confined to the butter cream icing and some chocolate shavings around the base. the cake itself is decent, delivering a reticent but honest taste of chocolate. however, this is basically a prop, and depending upon how hungry you are, you can eat it too. one drawback: it had sat in the display case long enough to pick up some off flavors, similar to those we encountered in a blueberry pie from the firehook at dupont circle the week before. all in all, it inspired neither love nor hate, but cake apathy.

Edited August 31, 2005 by giant shrimp

[laniloa]

Just got an email that Warren Brown is doing a online chat tomorrow from 12-1 if anyone cares to ask him about his frosting, cake texture, upcoming show.

[crackers]

The Kitchenette blog heard recently from Cakelove, responding to the comments about how dry the Cakelove baked goods are. Apparently if you wait and bring things up to room temperature everything will be just fine. Or so they say. Anybody tried this?

[laniloa]

What is their explanation for things sold in the cafe that are meant to be eaten right then?

[crackers]

What is their explanation for things sold in the cafe that are meant to be eaten right then?

Exactly. One of the Kitchenette commenters eloquently wondered the same thing:

"Let me pose a question: just how many people do you know that enter a pastry shop, or any food establishment short of a restaurant where you are ordering an entreé and are willing to sit for 15 minutes waiting for their cupcake to reach room temperature. Good luck. It ain't gonna happen. Do you need to issue a caveat with each cake slice? "You will need to wait to achieve maximum eating pleasure." Please. Hello Dunkin' Donuts."

[DonRocks]

Exactly.  One of the Kitchenette commenters eloquently wondered the same thing:

"Let me pose a question: just how many people do you know that enter a pastry shop, or any food establishment short of a restaurant where you are ordering an entreé and are willing to sit for 15 minutes waiting for their cupcake to reach room temperature. Good luck. It ain't gonna happen. Do you need to issue a caveat with each cake slice? "You will need to wait to achieve maximum eating pleasure." Please. Hello Dunkin' Donuts."

I'll play devil's(-food cake) advocate.

I walked into Cheesetique a couple of weeks ago and Jill gave me a cheese to taste. I think it was a sheep's-milk Brinata (Brie de Faux?), but the point is: she said that it was too cold, and that it wouldn't show well. The quality in the cheese was there, but she was right: that cheese (and really, all her cheeses) need to come up from chill-temperature before they strut their stuff.

Okay, so Cheesetique is a take-home place as opposed to a then-and-there cupcakery, but the same general principle applies to many quality dairy products.

This does not preclude the potential suckality coefficient of Cakelove, although it may grant them a reprieve until more rigorous testing is performed.

Cheers,

Rocks.

[mame11]

This is in response to DonRocks playing devils(food) advocate. I drove past CakeLove today as I have many times. When I first moved to DC I thought for sure that CakeLove would be a favorite of mine based on the hype I had heard. I gave it multiple shots. On two occassions I actually turned in my cupcake to request something, um, more edible while at LoveCafe.

Allowing a cakelove product to get to room temp before eating does not take away the texture that is oddly similar to cake that has been frozen. Oh, wait they don't freeze their products, only keep them very very cold.

JMHO

[LoganCircle]

At room temperature the buttercream frosting fails to hold. When left out overnight, the layers of my "New German Chocolate" cake separated and slid in different directions.

I remain unimpressed.

[crackers]

I'll play devil's(-food cake) advocate.

the same general principle applies to many quality dairy products.

Cheers,

Rocks.

Lots of foods need to be served at optimal temperatures (think ice cold butter brought to table to spread on cold bread and rolls ). I would no more expect to have a glass of cold red wine plunked down in front of me and be told to please wait while it warms up than I would expect to have the same request about a buttery dessert. If temperature is the only issue, Cakelove and LoveCafe need to figure out a way to keep enough of their product ready to eat. They can always ask "will you be eating this right away or bringing it home?" and select accordingly. But it sounds like some research is already underway, and customers eating the baked goods before they are room temperature may not be the only issue here.

[Mark Slater]

Dry is the only thing I've ever heard about this place.

[bkeith]

Hi folks,

Sorry I've been so absent. (Have a look at the "2005 Oklahoma Sugar Art Show" thread on the eGullet Pastry and Baking forum to see what I've kept busy with for the last couple months).

mktye asked me to chime in with a comment or two.

In the interest of full disclosure:

1: I know and like Warren Brown. He's a nice guy and I wish him all the best with his business and his new TV gig.

2: Despite that, believe it or not, I've never tasted a single one of CakeLove's products. I've been invited to tasting events, but they always conflict with other events my schedule. And I only ever seem to make it to U Street after business hours. So I'm commenting based on what I know in general, not what I know about these particular products.

Given that, here's my take on cake, buttercream, and temperature.

Cold cake tastes and feels like stale cake. That's just the nature of the beast. But a cake that has been refrigerated or frozen for a time ought to (not necessarily will, but ought to) rejuvenate to taste/feel like fresh cake with no problem. The variables are temp and time. Refrigeration accelerates the staling process in all baked goods ("staling" referring to a starch conversion and water migration leading to a product that's not necessarily any drier but tasting and feeling old, dry, and worn out. See Harold McGee's "On Food and Cooking" for a full discussion of what happens in the staling process).

Freezing, on the other hand, retards staling and actually makes a cake taste and feel moister when you eat it. Consumers don't like hearing this, but it's true. Provided it's wrapped correctly, frozen in the right type of freezer (not frost-free), and retrieved in a timely manner, freezing actually improves the quality of baked goods. Unfortunately, the word "frozen" has the implication of "not fresh", so it gets a bum rap. (Same for many fruits and veggies -- the frozen ones are often of a better quality than the fresh ones in the produce section because they can be picked ripe, frozen, and shipped, rather than shipped green and "ripened" artificially in a warehouse somewhere).

So, long story short (too late). Freezing isn't necessarily bad if it's done right. Refrigeration, though, can be a killer. FWIW, i refrigerate all my cakes due to the fillings, icings, and ease of transport. When the buttercream (or mousse or ganache or curd or what have you) is at room temp, it's also softer, squishier, and more prone to move, especially in the back of the car on DC streets (plus, with all the eggs, cream, etc. in that stuff, I just feel better about it not sitting out). So give it all a chill to hold it together, and let it warm up while it's sitting still. But I'm in a different business than CakeLove. My stuff has the opportunity to sit at room temp for a few hours at the reception site so by the time it's eaten, the chill is off. I know that everyone's going to eat my cake at around the same time, so I can plan for that. CakeLove has to have stuff ready to eat all day long. Also FWIW, to combat the damage that the fridge does, I use soaking syrups on all my cakes. They add flavor and extra moisture, so the sit overnight in the fridge doesn't take such a toll. I have no idea whether CakeLove uses such a strategy or not.

Cold icing tastes like not much at all. Again, nature of the beast. From the comments and descriptions, I'm guessing CakeLove uses some sort of cooked icing (eggs, yolks, or whites whipped, cooked with a hot sugar syrup added to the bowl, beaten until cool, then butter and flavor whipped in). But it doesn't much matter. Most icings that we encounter are largely fat. Whether it's an unctuous French buttercream or that Crisco/powdered sugar mix that so many decorators use, the icing on our cakes is often at least 30%-35% fat by weight. While it's true that fat carries flavor, fat is also pretty good at concealing flavor if it doesn't have a chance to melt. And any product containing a large quantity of fat (buttercream, chocolate, croissants, leftover bacon, what-have-you) isn't going to have nearly as much flavor right out of the fridge as it will if left to come to room temp. Plus, the texture of cold fat isn't terribly pleasant in the mouth.

As for the icing separating/sliding off/whatever at room temp. If that's really happening, then I'd suggest that Warren should re-evaluate his recipes. Buttercream ought to hold together at room temp under normal conditions. If not, it's unbalanced. But again, I haven't experienced the product or the problems documented here. So I'm speculating.

"Well duh, Keith. We know all that. We've been saying that the stuff at CakeLove is dry and the buttercream is flavorless. What's the solution?"

Heck, I don't know. There's a reason I never wanted to get into the business of selling individual portions of baked goods.

If they're baking daily for that day's sales, the product could easily sit at room temp (or in a case that can hold them slightly below room temp -- surely such a thing exists) all day. A true cooked buttercream is shelf stable and safe at room temp for a few days (believe it or not). Though of course the DC Dept of Health may disagree, and they're going to have final say in such a matter. If I ran the zoo, that's the way I'd want to store the goods. Anything left at the end of the day would be frozen, wrapped up in a container or similar items, and sold at 1/2 - 2/3 price as take-home combo packs. Sliced cakes could easily hang around a couple days (stick them in the freezer overnight and thaw in the morning). After a couple days, just pitch and write off I should think. Or freeze individual slices and make combo packs of them too.

It's a tough call. Trying to maintain a balance among high-quality patisserie with melt-in-your-mouth icings and fillings, unscheduled walk-in customers who want something ready to eat right now, and compliance with local health regulations is a high-wire act to say the least. Sounds like CakeLove hasn't quite found its balance there. Or maybe had it but lost it due to the fairly rapid growth they underwent? I can't judge. But for their sake, I hope they can make it work.

Sorry for the long, geeky screed. Hope it's of some value to someone.

Edited October 20, 2005 by bkeith

[DonRocks]

Sorry I've been so absent.  (Have a look at the "2005 Oklahoma Sugar Art Show" thread on the eGullet Pastry and Baking forum to see what I've kept busy with for the last couple months).

And congratulations to bkeith for taking 6th Prize at the show.

(But we already knew you were good.)

[Meaghan]

I'm frightened of men who can bake. They're usually tough cookies!

[Roger Troutman]

This isn't the same Warren Brown who is the Post's automotive columnist, is it?

[CrescentFresh]

This isn't the same Warren Brown who is the Post's automotive columnist, is it?

"You may be using too much sugar in your gas tank. Try adding some honey instead." - Warren Brown

[bkeith]

"You may be using too much sugar in your gas tank.  Try adding some honey instead."  - Warren Brown

Nope, different guy altogher. But I do remember doing a double-take the first time I saw Mr. columnist Brown's byline in the Post not long after meeting Mr. lawyer-baker Brown.

[giant shrimp]

on his maiden show last night: warren brown apparently has a knack for whipping up things that come across on television, judging from the star appearance of his raspberry, chocolate pudding and whipped cream parfait, which connected segments on extreme purveyors of sugar concoctions -- including a dangerous july 4th cannon cake for blasting off starbursts in baltimore, a windows catering preparation of a chocolate "celebrate"-vintage champagne magnum packed in a white chocolate crate and shavings and an establishment in atlantic city where every course nourishes the sweet tooth.

how does he do it? to find out, you have to go to the food network, i guess, although there were some helpful hints: stop mixing the cream before it turns to butter, finish it off by whisking by hand and touch the surface of your pudding with cellophane. personally, i have never minded a skin on my puddings, even a thick one, but i can see where that would be a problem in this recipe. and finish it off by piping on ganache.

i was happy there were live raspberries on the show, but the red layers looked almost unnatural on our set, raising the quintessential question about television -- is it real enough to eat?

Edited October 27, 2005 by giant shrimp

[DonRocks]

Warren Brown speaks! 

"Under this renewed initiative to serve no cake before its time, we made palm cards in the spirit of a cautionary road sign. It features a person with a cake, a thermometer at 72 degrees, and the phrase "serve cake @ room temp". I hope people find it cute as well as informative.

Best Regards,

Warren Brown

CakeLove/Love Cafe

I went to CakeLove on Sunday and purchased a chocolate cupcake with vanilla icing for $3.00. (The palm cards were out on the counter.)

I tried a couple bites immediately, and the icing had the consistency of a cold stick of butter, and the cake seemed grainy and dry. I put it back in the bag, and went out to do some errands.

Almost ninety minutes later, I reopened the bag and retried the cupcake. The icing had turned from refrigerated-butter consistency to a thin, creamy, semi-liquid state. I have to say: I really like the icing. Unfortunately, the cake itself remained grainy and dry. If you have the cake with the icing in the same bite, it works well enough, but the cake on its own was not executed well. One anecdote, one data point, one cupcake.

Cheers,

Rocks.

[B.A.R.]

One anecdote, one data point, one cupcake

One more bit of circumstantial evidence proving Rocks is Tom.

[Meaghan]

I tried a couple bites immediately, and the icing had the consistency of a cold stick of butter, and the cake seemed grainy and dry.  I put it back in the bag, and went out to do some errands.

Rocks.

You're the only dude I know that runs errands while his cupcakes get warm. Maybe hit the tailor and the dry cleaners, pick up more coffee beans...

[porcupine]

I went to CakeLove on Sunday and purchased a chocolate cupcake with vanilla icing for $3.00.  (The palm cards were out on the counter.)

I tried a couple bites immediately, and the icing had the consistency of a cold stick of butter, and the cake seemed grainy and dry.  I put it back in the bag, and went out to do some errands.

Almost ninety minutes later, I reopened the bag and retried the cupcake.  The icing had turned from refrigerated-butter consistency to a thin, creamy, semi-liquid state.  I have to say:  I really like the icing.  Unfortunately, the cake itself remained grainy and dry.  If you have the cake with the icing in the same bite, it works well enough, but the cake on its own was not executed well.  One anecdote, one data point, one cupcake.

Cheers,

Rocks.

I'm really confused by this whole refrigeration thing. I believe it's a red herring. Or maybe I don't know anything about health codes (more likely). But I bake a lot , and I make a lot of buttercream icings. They can be held at cool room temperature for a day at least (my cakes seldom last longer than that). Cool room temp, not warm, but not refrigerator cold, either. Can't CakeLove/LoveCafe get some proper storage for items likely to be consumed soon after purchase?

[Walrus]

Can't CakeLove/LoveCafe get some proper storage for items likely to be consumed soon after purchase?

I'm saying!

[D'oh! The evil triple space has been removed...]

Edited November 9, 2005 by Walrus

[DC in DC]

I'm really confused by this whole refrigeration thing.  I believe it's a red herring.  Or maybe I don't know anything about health codes (more likely).  But I bake a lot , and I make a lot of buttercream icings.  They can be held at cool room temperature for a day at least (my cakes seldom last longer than that).  Cool  room temp, not warm, but not refrigerator cold, either.  Can't CakeLove/LoveCafe get some proper storage for items likely to be consumed soon after purchase?

As someone else pointed out, why wouldn't he just have a certain number of cupcakes, cake slices (whatever) that have warmed to room temp for sale? It seems ridiculous to sell something that is supposed to be ready-to-eat, and then told that I should wait until it has warmed up? Why hasn't that already taken place? (Especially if he is getting bad press about it such that he's made up those "cute" palm cards.)

[monavano]

Cupcakes need to come with instruction?? Way too high maintenence for me. I just want to eat them....

[DanielK]

Cupcakes need to come with instruction?? Way too high maintenence for me. I just want to eat them....

Especially since cupcakes can be an impulse buy. You go in looking for a cake for that evening, and decide to buy a cupcake for RIGHT NOW. Not for an hour from RIGHT NOW.

[tastedc]

My impression of all his icings are that they are more butter than buttercream, so the question is what is the best temperature to serve butter? And doesn't butter really melt well on your tongue, I mean haven't you ever put the really hard butter served to you on bread and taken a bite and allowed the butter to melt lovingly down your throat? I think his cakes and cupcakes are really just one more excuse to add this lovingly rich fat to your diet, they are not produced for subtle nuance..

[mdt]

My impression of all his icings are that they are more butter than buttercream...

Um, what is that supposed to mean?

[mame11]

Um, what is that supposed to mean? 

You read my mind. I had typed the exact same thing and decided not to post it.

I was at a Balducci's tonight and they had a range of cupcakes. $1.70 each. Didn't try one but I am willing to bet that they are better than Cakelove.

[crackers]

I mean haven't you ever put the really hard butter served to you on bread and taken a bite and allowed the butter to melt lovingly down your throat? 

uh... no? I want the cupcake icing to mingle with the moist cupcake in my mouth, chewing it into one big mushed up wad before washing it all down with ice cold milk. That's what I want, but these sound more like a hard lump of butter going down first followed by dried cupcake. That's just ewwwww. Edited November 10, 2005 by crackers

[Meaghan]

uh... no?  I want the cupcake icing to mingle with the moist cupcake in my mouth, chewing it into one big mushed up wad before washing it all down with ice cold milk. That's what I want, not a hard lump of butter going down first followed by dried cupcake.  That's just ewwwww.

Actually a bite of a Cakelove cupcake, void the proper 15-45 minute warming up (errand running) time, is much like hard butter as opposed to mingle-moist. I get it.

[Heather]

Um, what is that supposed to mean? 

Bad ratio? With butter cream there's a fine line between creamy and greasy. Anecdotal evidence suggests that Cakelove may cross that line.

[mdt]

In an article about Warren, after he first started, he stated that "The Art of Cake" by Bruce Healy was one of his favorite references. Maybe he should pull that excellent resource back out and re-read the buttercream recipe.

[porcupine]

Bad ratio?  With butter cream there's a fine line between creamy and greasy.  Anecdotal evidence suggests that Cakelove may cross that line.

I'm thinking an expedition Friday 'round lunchtime is in order. I'm going to have to take one for the team. Anybody working in the area up for it?

[Barbara]

I'm thinking an expedition Friday 'round lunchtime is in order.  I'm going to have to take one for the team.  Anybody working in the area up for it?

It's within walking distance, so I would be glad to join you.

[LoganCircle]

Me too.

And I vote we call our order in 20 minutes before our arrival so they can heat up to room temperature.

Edited November 10, 2005 by LoganCircle

[porcupine]

Me too.

And I vote we call our order in 20 minutes before our arrival so they can heat up to room temperature.

How about one oc'clock? Barbara, did I meet you at the 2941 dinner? LoganCircle, how will I know you?

[LoganCircle]

How about one oc'clock?  Barbara, did I meet you at the 2941 dinner?  LoganCircle, how will I know you?

1:00 works for me.

I'll be the one with the giant post-Oohhs and Aahhs grin . You can't miss me - 6'6", young looking, in jeans, a black hoodie, and a black jacket.

[Gastro888]

They're now hiring at the SS location.

I hope they have Key Lime cupcakes there. I had one earlier this year for the first time and it was quite yummy.

Then again, it was left out of the fridge overnight so that could explain alot...

[jm chen]

So... how were the cupcakes? Or are y'all still waiting for them to warm up?

[Barbara]

So... how were the cupcakes? Or are y'all still waiting for them to warm up?

LoganCircle used the scientific method. I hope his pictures come out. I expect he and Porcupine will offer a more detailed review. We sampled 5 cupcakes and a humongous (what's up with that?) slice of chocolate cake with vanilla icing. There seemed to be a consensus that the vanilla icing was the same on the cake as on the cupcakes, but went better with the chocolate cake. We also seemed to think that the cupcakes were too dry. I dunno. I don't understand opening up a bakery/dessert shop and serving such mundane stuff. Particularly when you figure that one cupcake, one slice of cake (though huge) and a cup of ordinary coffee cost $12 .

I considered trying the pumpkin cheesecake (there were several kinds available), but I make a pretty terrific one myself, so didn't bother. It didn't LOOK as good as mine.

The company was better than the food. What a surprise with THIS crowd. And it was a gorgeous afternoon, so all was not lost.

[porcupine]

So... how were the cupcakes? Or are y'all still waiting for them to warm up?

good one. Y'know, I was lukewarm on them. I don't think they're good, nor do I thnk they're as bad as many claim. It was interesting that certain cakes were dryer than others; all were certainly more dense than I care for. The buttercream was just... bland? Sort of boring. I couldn't taste lemon in the lemon buttercream. The orange buttercream tasted like it had been made with essence or extract (a pet peeve, I'll admit), so I didn't care for it. There was a bit of refrigerator odor on the cupcakes, which dissipated in a few minutes, but still it was offputting.

I still wonder if there isn't some health code forcing storage at such cold temps. The product certainly doesn't take it well.

I don't quite get it, honestly. I can make better at home, but then I don't have mass production, economic, and storage issues to contend with.

Summary: if you're in the area, and don't mind spending three bucks a cupcake, and are having a desperate craving... why not? Otherwise, pass.

PS - took advantage of being in the area to get in some shopping, and had a late snack at Julia's Empanadas. Mmmmmmm. Now that's a bargain.

PPS - think I'll post some recipes on the Shopping and Cooking forum later

Edited November 11, 2005 by porcupine

[LoganCircle]

I've been a detractor of Cakelove in the past, mainly because of the lardlike taste of the chilled buttercream frosting. After taking Mr. Brown's recommendation to let their cupcakes come up to room temperature, I will admit that they are at least 2 or 3 times better than I remember, but not 10,000 times better.

Barbara, Mr. Barbara, Porcupine and I shared 5 cupcakes and one slice of cake. The cake was vanilla on chocolate and the cupcakes were vanilla with vanilla frosting, chocolate with orange frosting, new german chocolate, and two others that I didn't sample.

I ordered the vanilla-on-vanilla and New German Chocolate cupcakes along with the sweetest vanilla latte ever served. I hadn't eaten anything all day so waiting for the cupcakes to thaw was torturous. I was served the cakes at 1:00pm, waited until 1:20 to take my first bites, and then took my second bites around 1:45.

The nitty-gritty

Vanilla-on-Vanilla cupcake:

1:00pm - cold cake, icing appears lard-like and can be etched into in the same manner as clay

1:20 - cake has come up to room temperature and is dense but good, icing has warmed slightly and demonstrates more fluff and give when etched in. Icing is overpoweringly buttery and none too appealing.

1:45 - cake same as before but the icing, which is softer and oozey, is now downright good, with the taste of sweetness equally as noticeable as the taste of butter.

New German chocolate cupcake:

1:00 - cold cake, cold but pretty icing with coconut and nuts.

1:20 - cake is room temperature and is dense and extremely dry, icing has thawed more than on the aforementioned cake and is pretty yummy.

1:45 - cake is still dry but the thawed icing is very yummy.

All in all, I left with a better impression of their room-temperature products than I'd started the afternoon with. Still, as Tom S. said, their products are not to my taste. By every indication the marketing genius continues--the group behind me in line was talking to the bakery manager (I think) from across the street, going on about how she'd seen Mr. Brown on the Food Network, etc. The baker made a point to tell her 3 times to eat their products at room temperature. Saying they didn't have time to wait for something to heat up to an acceptable warmth, they split a piece of cheesecake instead. They were the realization of an issue that has been raised here repeatedly: who can buy a cupcake or slice of cake in a cafe and wait more than half an hour to eat it as it should be eaten?

My photography skills are poopy, but I took a couple of photos during the trial. I etched the times of service and first tasting into the icing on the vanilla-on-vanilla cupcake. I hoped that would allow one to see the differences in texture. I'm not sure I succeeded.

1:00pm

1:20pm

At $3.30 per cupcake, there's a lot of money in here .

Edited November 11, 2005 by LoganCircle

[Capital Icebox]

Cakelove is the cover story for the Washington City Paper this week. Not up online yet -- should be tomorrow. At a glance, it seems the room-temperature debate is covered in the article.

Edited to add: our estimable host and Tom S. are featured in the piece as well.

That's twice this year that Donrockwell.com has figured into a City Paper story.

Edited November 17, 2005 by Capital Icebox

[giant shrimp]

imagine my enormous disappointment last night when the cake love show was preempted by special thanksgiving programming. after a mere three episodes are they ready for reruns? i mean, give the audience a chance to warm up to it.

[bilrus]

I had my first Cakelove experience last night at a friends birthday party. I'll preface this by saying that I really like Giant's birthday cakes - very sweet frosting and, for the most part, moistcake - so you can use that as a guide.

But I actually thought the Cakelove cake last night was pretty good. Room temperature, moist enough, mildly sweet. Two types of icing, neither of which were buttercream as far as I could tell.

I wouldn't go out of my way for it, but it worked.

[mdt]

Cakelove is the cover story for the Washington City Paper this week.  Not up online yet -- should be tomorrow.  At a glance, it seems the room-temperature debate is covered in the article.

Edited to add:  our estimable host and Tom S. are featured in the piece as well.

That's twice this year that Donrockwell.com has figured into a City Paper story.

Not to mention some quotes from some of our esteemed members.

And they hope to open a place in Clarendon next year. Ugh.

Edited November 18, 2005 by mdt

[mame11]

Not to mention some quotes from some of our esteemed members. 

And they hope to open a place in Clarendon next year.  Ugh.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.... I wanted a good bakery.

Runs to corner, sits and sulks.

(the triple space is for effect.)

[bilrus]

I had my first Cakelove experience last night at a friends birthday party.  I'll preface this by saying that I really like Giant's birthday cakes - very sweet frosting and, for the most part, moistcake - so you can use that as a guide.

But I actually thought the Cakelove cake last night was pretty good.  Room temperature, moist enough, mildly sweet.  Two types of icing, neither of which were buttercream as far as I could tell.

I wouldn't go out of my way for it, but it worked.

Now I see from the article that there is no frosting or icing there. And I determined that the cake we had was the ganache variety with perhaps buttercream between layers.

[brian]

"Where can I buy a nice cake that’s not made by [Palena owner and pastry chef] Ann Amernick or…something that’s going to require me to take out a loan?”

If they included this quote from Sietsema, I wish they'd also addressed CakeLove's products being priced about 50% higher across the board than Firehook and three times as much as Heller's.

[giant shrimp]

I had my first Cakelove experience last night at a friends birthday party.  I'll preface this by saying that I really like Giant's birthday cakes - very sweet frosting and, for the most part, moistcake - so you can use that as a guide.

But I actually thought the Cakelove cake last night was pretty good.  Room temperature, moist enough, mildly sweet.  Two types of icing, neither of which were buttercream as far as I could tell.

I wouldn't go out of my way for it, but it worked.

my wife once ordered a white birthday cake from ann amernick because i told her i liked them. i know what you're talking about, the chef told my wife, like the cakes they sell at giant. it's not something she ordinarily would do, but the cake -- big surprise -- was better than what you could buy at giant.

in the opening weeks of her bakery in cleveland park, my wife went to amernick with the expectation that you probably needed to order cakes ahead of time. i told her to get anything, i was sure it would be good. her cake expectations were confirmed by the young woman at the counter -- no cakes. then she went through a list of what they sold, and was turned down on each item -- until she got to the cookies. no cookies, as well. what about these cookies in the display case, she asked. oh, those are just for display, she was told. not quite ready to return home empty-handed, she asked what the two girls on stools at the counter were eating. they brought that in with them, she was told. the story does have a happy ending: eventually we were able to buy cookies -- tiny and terrific -- and move onto cakes, the best of which by far were inspired by ann amernick and not an off-the-wall special request.

some years later, in the opening weeks of cake love the vibes are good, so my wife makes a telephone call. do you have any cakes, she asks. no, she is told. we are still waiting for a happy ending to that story.

Edited November 18, 2005 by giant shrimp

[V.H.]

I'm not sure how they'll do in Clarendon. On the one hand, there's tons of foot traffic and the only other places to get baked goods would be the Cheesecake Factory or Whole Foods so it would certainly appeal to folks who don't want to get in a car or buy pastries from a chain. On the other hand, I personally think the cakes at Cheesecake Factory and Whole Foods are generally tastier than the stuff from Cakelove. Additionally, a short drive away from Clarendon are Randolph's and Heidelberg's, which both make knock out cakes and pastries that happen to also be delicious at any temperature. I don't see customers from either of those stores becoming customers of Cakelove. Certainly at his price point, there are lots of better options in the North Arlingon area.

[Capital Icebox]

Some random thoughts on the Cakelove article in the City Paper:

1. Warren Brown is a bit offbeat -- from his manifestos on "Cake Passion" to his Model Tank Cakes for Peace, this guy seems a bit nutty. Which is a must in the food industry, as I understand it.

2. He is also an expansionist, looking to put five to six stores in metropolitan areas across the world, including, but not limited to, Japan. He's even considering a line of candy bars. Remember, Brown tells us, "'Make Cakelove, not war' only is possible if the community doesn't have walls."

3. He was never a high-priced corporate lawyer, but rather worked on fraud litigation at HHS. Get it, fraud litigation?

4. Judith Weinraub has some 'splaining to do.

[Tweaked]

I'm not sure how they'll do in Clarendon. 

Are you kidding, a bunch of "trendy" 20s/30s somethings all living in boring high rise apartment buildings spending their time sipping Starbucks, browsing at Barnes and Noble, and spending their weekends at the Container Store, he's going to make a killing

[mame11]

Are you kidding, a bunch of "trendy" 20s/30s somethings all living in boring high rise apartment buildings spending their time sipping Starbucks, browsing at Barnes and Noble, and spending their weekends at the Container Store, he's going to make a killing 

Hey, I am one of those people... I do live in a boring apartment. But I have taste and my taste does not include CakeLove. Give me better please. Of course, the nice thing is that I won't be tempted or interested in the place so my body will be grateful. Hmmm...

[Capital Icebox]

Any of you wanting to ask the man himself about his cakes, there'll be an opportunity to do so tomorrow:

"Cake Talk -- Warren Brown, owner of Cakelove and star of "Sugar Rush" will be online Thursday at 11 a.m. ET to discuss the sweet life."

[mdt]

Any of you wanting to ask the man himself about his cakes, there'll be an opportunity to do so tomorrow:

"Cake Talk -- Warren Brown, owner of Cakelove and star of "Sugar Rush" will be online Thursday at 11 a.m. ET to discuss the sweet life."

This is great publicity for him, but is this going to become a regular event?

[DC in DC]

I have to say that I benefitted from all the hoopola over the waiting period for CakeLove cupcakes-- yesterday I made carrot cake cupcakes that needed to be refrigerated (because of the cream cheese frosting) for an office function. I remembered to take them out of the fridge 30 min beforehand to get to room temp. Never would have thought of it otherwise (I am a novice baker.)

[Capital Icebox]

From Warren's chat:

"We store all of our perishable products under refrigeration to protect our customers from food borne illness. We have to do this. The health department mandates it. Were we to store our cakes with buttercream, eclairs and buzz balls with pastry cream, and cheesecakes at room temp they would be a health hazard."

I am skeptical here. Are bakeries required to store their goods with buttercream frosting in a fridge? Do other bakeries in the area do the same as Cakelove?

[DC in DC]

From Warren's chat:

"We store all of our perishable products under refrigeration to protect our customers from food borne illness. We have to do this. The health department mandates it. Were we to store our cakes with buttercream, eclairs and buzz balls with pastry cream, and cheesecakes at room temp they would be a health hazard."

I am skeptical here.  Are bakeries required to store their goods with buttercream frosting in a fridge?  Do other bakeries in the area do the same as Cakelove?

Or more to the point, couldn't some number be taken out and warmed to room temp for same-day sale? I'm sure a business person can figure out which cupcakes are best-sellers and how many to have ready. I am very confused as to why this can't happen.

[Capital Icebox]

Or more to the point, couldn't some number be taken out and warmed to room temp for same-day sale? I'm sure a business person can figure out which cupcakes are best-sellers and how many to have ready.  I am very confused as to why this can't happen.

Right -- as he says in the chat, they have a rotating supply of room-temp slices of cake so customers won't have to wait for it to warm up (unless the rotating supply happens to sell out). Can't they do this with the cupcakes?

[Michael Landrum]

Is it possible to make cake into something you hate? Never in my life did I think that cake, and having cake, could be something so bad, so wrong, so hateful.

Who would do such a thing? Why?

Reading up-thread I am shocked--shocked--to see that there is any debate at all about this awfulness. Not just the product, but the entire CakeHate experience--a grotesque, horrible perversion of the beauty, wonder and joy that is cake.

Are we really that stupid now? Is this what we have become?

[giant shrimp]

Is it possible to make cake into something you hate?  Never in my life did I think that cake, and having cake, could be something so bad, so wrong, so hateful.

Who would do such a thing?  Why?

Reading up-thread I am shocked--shocked--to see that there is any debate at all about this awfulness.  Not just the product, but the entire CakeHate experience--a grotesque, horrible perversion of the beauty, wonder and joy that is cake.

Are we really that stupid now?  Is this what we have become?

sounds like the situation is getting worse. i think this cake guy is interesting to watch on television. he appears to be affectless and nothing seems on the level. he has been on the air for several weeks but has never warmed up. he's cool and friendly at the same time and it's hard to believe you're seeing nothing but pretense. his cooking demonstrations are unbelievably lame. he tries to butter up the viewers. it's sort of like george bush coming into your home. we had to wait 17 minutes last night to find out that desperate housewives was a rerun.

[CrescentFresh]

Is it possible to make cake into something you hate?  Never in my life did I think that cake, and having cake, could be something so bad, so wrong, so hateful.

Who would do such a thing?  Why?

Reading up-thread I am shocked--shocked--to see that there is any debate at all about this awfulness.  Not just the product, but the entire CakeHate experience--a grotesque, horrible perversion of the beauty, wonder and joy that is cake.

Are we really that stupid now?  Is this what we have become?

sounds like the situation is getting worse. i think this cake guy is interesting to watch on television. he appears to be affectless and nothing seems on the level. he has been on the air for several weeks but has never warmed up. he's cool and friendly at the same time and it's hard to believe you're seeing nothing but pretense. his cooking demonstrations are unbelievably lame. he tries to butter up the viewers. it's sort of like george bush coming into your home. we had to wait 17 minutes last night to find out that desperate housewives was a rerun.

Methinks Sir Loin of Beef doth tuggeth on thy lower limb.

[Michael Landrum]

I think I had the utmost of the "Are You Kidding Me?" moments recently. At a highly regarded, world-famous, TV Star-headed bakery--which shall remain nameless--I paid $8 for a piece of cake that was the single worst thing I have ever put in my mouth, not having spent any time in prison yet.

[Stretch]

I think I had the utmost of the "Are You Kidding Me?" moments recently.  At a highly regarded, world-famous, TV Star-headed bakery--which shall remain nameless--I paid $8 for a piece of cake that was the single worst thing I have ever put in my mouth, not having spent any time in prison yet.

No more love for you!

Now you go. And never come back.

[hungry prof]

I think I had the utmost of the "Are You Kidding Me?" moments recently.  At a highly regarded, world-famous, TV Star-headed bakery--which shall remain nameless--I paid $8 for a piece of cake that was the single worst thing I have ever put in my mouth, not having spent any time in prison yet.

Just substitute "steak" for "cake" and you have the new Ray's the Steaks logo:

[DonRocks]

Flays the cakes.

[brendanc]

Flays the cakes.

"tries to bake?"

not you michael

[Michael Landrum]

Hmmm...I am in a neighborhood whose whole resurgence is predicated on being the cultural heart and soul of Black Washington, but still is the center of much inner city poverty and all of poverty's attendant ills--illiteracy, malnutrition, violence, lack of job opprtunity, no social services or community centers to care for semi-abandoned children. And I sell a piece of cake for $8 and I give you the same kind of pictogram that is used to instruct illiterates to watch out for "Piso Mojado" and how to assemble Big Macs for $6/hour no benefits.

Is insult to injury now funny or cute? Is this how you honor your community, by shaming it? Is this what we reward now with wealth and fame?

Whose idea of Love is this, Cake or otherwise?

Are you kidding me?

Edited December 22, 2005 by Michael Landrum

[Mark Slater]

Is insult to injury now funny or cute?  Is this how you honor your community, by shaming it?  Is this what we reward now with wealth and fame?[/size] Are you kidding me?

Good point, Michael. I have to agree. Can I have a TV show now, too?

[DonRocks]

Hmmm...I am in a neighborhood whose whole resurgence is predicated on being the cultural heart and soul of Black Washington, but still is the center of much inner city poverty and all of poverty's attendant ills--illiteracy, malnutrition, violence, lack of job opprtunity, no social services or community centers to care for semi-abandoned children.  And I sell a piece of cake for $8 and I give you the same kind of pictogram that is used to instruct illiterates to watch out for "Piso Mojado" and how to assemble Big Macs for $6/hour no benefits. 

Is insult to injury now funny or cute?  Is this how you honor your community, by shaming it?  Is this what we reward now with wealth and fame?

Whose idea of Love is this, Cake or otherwise?

Are you kidding me?

Let me respond, not as "moderator," but as a regular old poster and devil's(-food cake) advocate: can anyone really blame Warren Brown for stepping into his celebrity? Yes, some things in life can be annoying, but who would turn it down? I've never seen the TV show, but from what I've gleaned, this whole glasses-wearing dreadlock-sporting hippy-esque cake-loving thing is a big ol' schtick, plain and simple, and has nothing to do with the actual cake at this point, other than the cake being a theme and launching point. Give Brown a crewcut and take off his specs, and he's no longer a tele-marketable commodity. So that makes 10,385 image-driven personae on the tube instead of 10,384, but that doesn't make the guy a bad person, in-the-wrong, or even vacuous, does it? Okay, all this having been said: I fully support calling people down on riding a PR-wave not supported by underlying substance, so if his cakes really suck with such desperation, intensity and fervor, then carry on and nail him for having the gall to open more bakeries, but not for merely being famous.

Cheers,

Rocks

[B.A.R.]

The only thing I have ever had from Cakelove is one cupcake. When I think of a cupcake, I think of soft, light cake topped with fluffy, rich icing.

What I got was a terrible rendition of a wedding cake in a "cupcake" form. The execution of such a basic dish was so bad, I wouldn't consider going back.

As for the owner's fame, good for him.