CityZen, at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel - 2008 James Beard Award Winner Eric Ziebold - Closed Dec 7, 2014

[bilrus]

Not to copy our fearless leader, and I'm not going to do it often, but I thought I might copy a post of mine from eGullet after my recent dinner there, just to add to the DR.com literature about Cityzen.

I'm in agreement with Sietsema and others on this one. Based on my meal last month I would put Cityzen in the same league as the other four stars. But there is something missing and not quite as special and I can't quite put my finger on it, even after thinking about it for two days. Somewhere above the best three star, but maybe not quite at the level of the four stars.

Aside from one OK entree, the food at Cityzen was outstanding - nearly flawless actually. The service was also excellent - friendly but polished exactly the way I prefer it. They pull out all the stops - two amuses, a pre-dessert, a small cookie plate after the dessert - maybe even more than the other places. Cityzen's presentation is more like Per Se (French Laundry has a much different feel because of its setting - like comparing the Inn to Citronelle - just different) in style than any restaurant that I've been to in the city. They even claim to only turn the tables once and that appeared to be the case.

But if you asked me which is the better restaurant I'd say Citronelle or Maestro. Maybe it is the confidence coming out of the kitchen or the sense of whimsy on the plate while still turning out serious food.

These are things that can, and I think will, come with time at Cityzen, though.

[mktye]

Not to copy our fearless leader, and I'm not going to do it often, but I thought I might copy Bilrus...

My previously posted experience at Cityzen last fall, about 1 month after they opened:

(Caution: this is long!)

For first impressions, the staff at the front of the hotel certainly does make quite the impression, both in sheer numbers and helpfulness. After valet parking the car (free with validation from the restaurant), we were escorted into CityZen, to a table in their lounge (there is also another lounge in the main lobby of the hotel that has a better view), and our escort even informed the hostess of our presence so she could inquire to our reservation name & time. Very smooth.

I won’t go into the lounge menu since Mr. Rocks described it already, but I do want to say that it is entertaining reading. In fact, I think the cocktail waitress was a little exasperated with us because we were too busy being amused and were not making any decisions as to what we wanted to drink.

Now, for full disclosure, I’d better stop here and say that I was prepared to find fault with CityZen. Not because I’m a pessimist, but because our dining companions were my oldest sister and her husband. My sis is a big foodie, a huge Thomas Keller/French Laundry fan, and her preconceived notion was that the evening could not be anything other than absolutely perfect. So, in order to have the fodder for our requisite arguing, I was cast in the role of skeptic. But on to the food…

We all ordered the 5-course tasting menu for $90. Officially it was: Appetizer, Fish Course, Meat Course, Cheese Course, Dessert. But in reality is was: pre-Amuse, Amuse, Appetizer, Fish Course, Meat Course, Cheese Course, Sorbet, Dessert, Petit Fours. The meat that night was ribeye and I eat very little red meat (and never steak), but they were more than happy to allow me to substitute a chicken dish off the regular menu.

After we ordered, we met Christopher Hile, the sommelier. What a sweetheart! Very personable & approachable and obviously passionate about his job. He totally impressed my sister by picking out the exact two wines she would have chosen herself.

Then they brought the pre-amuse which was a chinese-style soup-spoon containing a layer of red beet aspic on the bottom, covered with a small mound of yellow beet cubes and topped with a bit of horseradish mousse. The beets were great – not overly “earthy” tasting as they sometimes are, but I personally would have preferred a bit more kick to the horseradish mousse. The only downside was that the gelled red layer was very firmly stuck to the spoon with no utensils present and no lady-like way to get it out. Our husbands had the same problem I did, but my sis said that hers came out of the spoon fine. (We later decided it was because she has a big mouth. )

Next was the amuse – a gratin of sunchokes with Osetra caviar on top. It was excellent. The low-notes of the gratin really balanced well with the salty-fishy of the caviar. My second favorite dish of the night.

Oh, I almost forgot to comment on the bread! Three choices served out of what appeared to be a little wooden treasure chest (very appropriate reverence for bread, IMO). A nice tasting sourdough, although we native Californians who were raised on S.F-style sourdough thought it a bit too holey of crumb and ciabatta-like. The second option was an excellent cheese (I never did hear what kind – Asiago?) and bacon bread. The third bread was a rye. It was a light, deli-style rye (but no hint of onion that I could tell) and was a bit lackluster for my taste and outshone by the other two breads. Also served with the bread were a salted French butter and an unsalted Virginia butter. This lead to some interesting discussion on ones’ patriotic loyalties, but the bottom line was that the Virginia butter had a much fresher taste and was favored by all but my sister.

The appetizer was a matsutake mushroom tart topped with shavings of parmesan, arugula sprouts and sea salt. This was my favorite of the evening. The thin, thin, thin crust had an incredibly buttery flavor while retaining just the right amount of bite. The balance of flavors was exceptional with nothing overpowering anything else. The mushrooms were plentiful, the parmesan was young & not too strong and the sprouts were surprisingly flavorful.

On to the fish course… Salmon-themed. In the middle of the plate was a piece of butter-poached salmon (as I was informed by my sister, who knows all things Keller) sitting on top of a puddle of melted onions & chives. To one side were a couple of medium-thin slices of house-cured gravlax and on the other side a tempura-like puff of roe (FYI – trying to determine what waiter with a French-accent is saying when he says “puff of roe” is not easy). The gravlax had nice texture and a very subtle taste – you definitely want that to be the first thing you eat on the plate. The poached salmon really was perfection. Tender and flavorful with no hint of fishiness. The roe puff was fine, executed well and I really like that taste, but I thought it slightly repetitive after the caviar on the amuse.

As this point, we waited. All along there had been decent pauses between courses, but in a good way – enough so the meal didn’t feel rushed. However, this time the interval between courses was about 5-10 minutes longer. We were then informed that the chef was “unhappy with the way our meat course had looked and it was being redone”. We were the last table seated that night and I suspect that as things slowed down in the kitchen Chef Ziebold had the time to perfect some of his staff’s technique. (Or it was a great excuse for the kitchen being slow – that Far Side cartoon with the airplane pilot and the “turbulence” comes to mind).

As I noted previously, I deviated from the rest of the table at this point. My meat course was chicken and dumplings with celery, tiny (<1/2”) pearl onions & black truffle slices sitting in a pool of oh-so-buttery chicken gravy. A very home-y flavor overall. The only downside was that the chicken was almost too salty. It was fine for me because I like a lot of salt, but I suspect that many people would not have been happy with it.

Everyone else at the table received the ribeye that was served with baby turnips, two slices of potatoes Anna with a dried plum in between and a plum-based sauce. When my brother-in-law finished off my sister’s ribeye he noted that hers was salted more than his and tasted much better. My husband later said that his ribeye lacked taste which makes me wonder if it was also undersalted.

With the meat course was a “last-minute chef’s surprise” box of mini parker house rolls. Little one-inch, butter-drenched balls of goodness served in a ~3”x8” wooden jewelry box with a hinged lid (after we quickly devoured the rolls, my woodworker/engineer husband had to examine the construction of the box – he pronounced it “nicely made” ). I think the chef’s “whim” may have been a bit more planned than implied because the rolls had that wonderful yeasty flavor that only comes from a long, cold rise.

Now for the moment my sister had been waiting for all evening – the cheese course. The cheeses were a triple-cream brie from France, a pecorino, a cabrales and a goat from Adante (a small cheesemaker in California who currently only produces enough cheese to sell to select wholesale outlets & restaurants). The cheeses were accompanied by warm, toasted raisin bread, an apricot jam for the pecorino and a smear of fig puree for the cabrales. The goat cheese was, without doubt, the highlight of the plate. I found the other cheeses good, but nothing spectacular. In fact, I have the same exact pecorino (that I bought at a military commissary) sitting in my refrigerator right now.

At this point, pretty much everyone was getting quite full and not sure if we really wanted anymore, but out came the sorbet. Intensely green apple-flavored and accompanied by a tonic jelly. I could only eat a bit of the jelly – the bitterness was great for refreshing the palate, but a little went a long way.

And for dessert… A “fudgesicle” made up of a hazelnut/chocolate crisp wafer topped with a rectangle of semi-frozen chocolate mousse and covered with a couple spoonfuls of warm chocolate sauce that hardened into wonderful chewiness once it was spooned (tableside) onto the mousse. There was also a smear of hazelnut syrup on the plate and a little quenelle of crème fraiche. It was all very good, but not being a big chocolate lover, my favorite part was the wafer.

So were we done yet? No. Last was a plate of petit fours: blueberry financiers, chocolate truffles, french macaroons, florentines and raspberry jellies. All excellent, but frankly, we were all just a bit too stuffed to really enjoy them. However, we did hear a gentleman at the next table stating that he could have eaten more! (He was told the 5-course menu can be supplemented with additional courses if desired.)

As to the décor, it was very well done and the atmosphere was quite comfortable (although a tad too loud). Lots of wood, marble, and stone accented with just the right amount of metal. The tablecloths and napkins were a weighty non-lint-shedding (a pet peeve of mine since I often wear black) raw-linen looking material in beige and caramel tones that added to the organic feel of the decor. And there was an overall opulent heft to everything – the menus were huge in dimensions and heavy due to metal decoration on the exterior (I’m glad I lift weights!) and the various plates our courses came on pretty much ranged from big to giant.

Throughout the evening, things ran surprising smoothly for such a new restaurant. There were a few minor signs that routines needed to settle in a bit more, especially in the front of the house (I had my back to the glass-fronted kitchen, so I could not see what level chaos was going on in there). The waiters often appeared to be playing musical chairs when they came with our various courses -- always two of them (each with a plate in hand), they would stand opposite each other and then put the plates down. However, there often seemed to be some jockeying for exactly which side of our round table each was to stand. But this was more entertaining that anything else. And there was an error with our check – we were charged for 8 tasting menus instead of 4! Yikes! I’ve never seen such a dumbfounded look on my husband’s face as when he initially looked at the $800+ bill. Of course, everything was graciously corrected once our relief-induced giggles ceased and we brought the overcharge to the staff’s attention.

Overall – an excellent meal that I felt was worth the money, especially once all the high-end trappings and service are factored in. Will we go back? Yes. Soon? No, we’re just poor military folk. Was my sister right in her high expectations? Yes, damn her.

[DonRocks]

Happy One-Year Anniversary, Eric!

Cheers,

Rocks.

[Jonathan]

my wife and i had the pleasure of dining at cityzen on saturday night for our 1 year anniversary. and while i dont need to go into detail course-by-course, I will say that this is a great restaurant.

my overall impressions were that ziebolds flavors are clean and bright and singular; and his use of ingredients second to none (think sheepshead, pied de cuchon, lambs tongue, etc...). his dishes almost have a refined rusticness (if that makes any sense at all). to make a comparision just for reference sake, i will say that to compare ev erything i ate here to maestro, maestro probably had the best dish. cityzen's food however was a little more to my liking (not better, just his flavor palette more inline with my own). i would say that in dining at maestro you would be more apt to say "man, how did fabio do this?" or "what is going on in this dish?" but again, the flavors at cityzen, for me, outshine those of maestro, with a few exceptions.

as for service, it was the best i have had. better than the Inn and better than maestro.impeccable. no hiccups. and lastly the wine service, also impeccable. every glass of wine i had, from the opening champagne, to the dessert wines were at just the right temperature.

i am definitely looking forward to checking back in on ziebold in a year or so. it is an exciting restaurant and he is an exciting chef for DC to have. and think, he and fabio aren't even 35 yet...

[Jacques Gastreaux]

I had dinner last night with 3 fellow DR.com dining companions. My three companions did the 5-course tasting menu, I opted for the 3-course menu. Since I have not dined at either Citronelle or Maestro, I cannot compare it to them. I have dined at Eve, Komi and Corduroy so I have some basis for comparison. Describing this meal will be somewhat tricky.

1. Service-superb.

2. Food-Wonderful

3. Price tag-Breathtaking

1. Service--It can't help but be superb given the number of people who appear to be on staff. How they are all able to coordinate their activities is beyond my, but coordinate they do. All aspects of the service were efficient and unobtrusive. There was no rushing or any attempt to turn the table. Our reservations were for 7:00 and we were there until around 11:00. (I for one have trouble sitting still for that long).

2. Food--I ordered the CityZen Cochetti, Canard au Vin and the cheese course. This was supplemented by 2 amuse: a tiny mushroom fritter with a truffle sauce and a little cup of olive oil custard topped with a tomato/pepper butter. Both of the amuse were exquisite. The mushroom flavor of the fritter was intense and went will with the smidge of truffle sauce. The creamy mildness of the custard contrasted nicely with the spiciness of the butter.

When perusing the menu, one of the questions I had was "what's cochetti?" I closed my menu and put a smile on my face when I learned that cochetti is the housemade sausage. I totally tuned out whatever else it was the server said about it, I was sold. Damn, as it good. It came with three chunks of sausage, one drizzled with a sauce, one atop a layered roasted red pepper and onion device, and the third atop a small pile of fennel. The sausage was excellent and the three accompaniments each made it taste a little different.

The "wild Scottish duck" came with sliced seared breast and some braised leg. This was atop a bed of tiny vegetables with a wine jus. Frankly, I thought some of the strong flavors of some of the vegetables overpowered the flavor of the duck. But, it was a wonderful dish nonetheless.

Our palates were cleared with a small serving of plum sorbet with an amaretto sauce, it really did the trick.

The cheese course is expertly presented. A cart comes out with an assortment of cheeses arranged with all of the bleus on one side and the the rest lined by my milk type. Those that selected the tasting menu got three cheeses while my 3-course dinner came with 5 cheeses. All excellent .

The wine list is very extensive (and expensive) but we stuck with the wines by the glass page. With my first course, I went with the Pegasus Pinot Noir from NZ which went well with the sausage. For me second glass, I ordered a glass of the grenache. To my amazement, when presented with a taste of the grenache, I, for the first time in my life, detected a corked wine. One of my dining companions confirmed my diagnosis and I refused the glass (the bottle it came from was half empty). This catch was fortuitous as 2 of the others had ordered the same wine. The sommelier confirmed the diagnosis and opened a fresh bottle. The aroma was much different than the first and the wine went will with my duck.

For an after dinner drink, I asked to see the drink list. I was puzzled to see that there was no calvados on the list so I ordered an Armagnac. When the server came by a moment later I said you have no calvados. He said "we do too." I said "it's not on the menu." He said, "you're right." I said "could you cancel the Armagnac and bring me the calvados." He said "sure."

3. Price--My share of the tab, with three glasses of wine (I had a glass at the bar which was transferred to the dinner check) was $186. The price of the 3-course dinner I think was $75. The wines by the glass are all in the $12-16 ranges and the glass of calvados was about $15. This is a bit hefty in my view. Since I have not dined at Citronelle or Maestro, I can't comment on whether the food, service and ambiance are up to the price tag, but my feeling is that I could have had a comparable meal (albeit a different meal) at any one of the other three restaurants I referred to above for 1/2 to 2/3 of the price (Eve, Komi and Corduroy). I will let the other three chime in with their impressions but for me, the other three places have a better price/quality ratio. The tab would have been much higher if I had not been so restrained on the wine.

Edited October 14, 2005 by Jacques Gastreaux

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Joe, I'm not sure whether you agree or disagree with me. I just thought $186 for a 3 course meal with a couple of glasses of wine and an after dinner drink was a little steep. Since I have not been to the Lab, Maestro or Citronelle (except to have a lobster burger at the bar) I don't know whether CityZen is out of line. All I know is based on what I had for dinner last night and what I paid, I'd rather go to Komi, Eve or Corduroy and have what I consider a comparable meal and drink more and better wine for a few less $.

[bilrus]

I just thought $186 for a 3 course meal with a couple of glasses of wine and an after dinner drink was a little steep.  Since I have not been to the Lab, Maestro or Citronelle (except to have a lobster burger at the bar) I don't know whether CityZen is out of line.  All I know is based on what I had for dinner last night and what I paid, I'd rather go to Komi, Eve or Corduroy and have what I consider a comparable meal and drink more and better wine for a few less $.

Unless you were drinking expensive wine, that does seem a bit steep. We went last fall and I don't remember spending quite that much per person going with the three course option, but it very well could have been close.

Beyond a certain point it is only possible to incrementally improve the fine-dining experience. Komi, Eve and Corduroy are all excellent restaurants but there is a certain extra level of pampering and luxury that goes on in the very few places that are one step above those (Maestro, Citronelle, etc.) and I'd put Cityzen a half step above - somewhere between those two sets of restaurants.

Is an additional $25 or $50 worth it for the incremental extra luxury? I'd answer "occasionally." But for some that answer would surely be 'No."

Edited October 14, 2005 by bilrus

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Unless you were drinking expensive wine, that does seem a bit steep.  We went last fall and I don't remember spending quite that much per person going with the three course option, but it was probably close.

Beyond a certain point it is only possible to incrementally improve the fine-dining experience.  Komi, Eve and Corduroy are all excellent restaurants but there is a certain extra level of pampering and luxury that goes on in the very few places that are one step above those (Maestro, Citronelle, etc.) and I'd put Cityzen a half step above. 

Is an additional $25 or $50 worth it for the incremental extra luxury?  I'd answer "occasionally."  But for some that answer would be 'No."

We were drinking wines from the "wine by the glass" list which, in my experience, are usually from the lower part of the mid-range. I pretty much agree with the rest of your post. I'd agree the CityZen is a half-step above those other restaurants when it comes to luxury and pampering. For me, I'd rather plough that extra half-step into the meal/wine. At Komi, Eve and Corduroy, it would take some work to spend more than what I did at CityZen last night.

Edited October 14, 2005 by Jacques Gastreaux

[B.A.R.]

$186.00 per person for a dinner is a lot of money to 99% of the populace, including rabid food lovers with middle-class income people like myself included. I've spent that much, and more, many times. Only a few times have I even regretted the cost, and that always told me that the experience was not worth it.

Whether or not the costs are commensurate with Maestro or Citronelle, Per Se, Tallivent, wherever is kind is irrelevant unless you've experienced it, and left gloriously satisfied, or, sometimes, kind of eh.

[mdt]

I guess I missed all the fun! Well it is not too late for me to offer my opinion.

Dinner last night was as JG described it, exceptional. I chose the 5 course tasting option and enjoyed each course that was presented.

Since I do not recall the exact preparations of each course I will comment on the ones that stood out to me.

The mushroom fritter had an amazing amount of flavor packed into a very small package. I got to taste some of the olive oil custard amuse that JG was served and it was sublime. Those little tastes were definitely a precursor of what was going to follow. Of the 3 savory courses that followed the Lamb T-Bone was my favorite, followed by the seared foie. This is the first lamb dish that I have been served where the meat had that gamey lamb flavor that I adore.

The mini-parker house rolls that are served with the main savory dish are amazing in their buttery goodness!

While I had no problem with the final bill, it was on the high side in comparison with what I have had in other similar places. Would that stop me from going there again? No, but I still have Maestro and another visit to Citronelle on my list.

FYI, the 5-course meal is $95 with a wine pairing option for an additional $70. That is before tax and tip.

[jdl]

Worst part about dining at CityZen? Trying to get a damn cab to take you home!! The Mandarin Oriental is squarely in the heart of D.C.'s No-Man's Land. Even if the restaurant calls for a cab on your behalf, it can still take forever for a taxi to show up. (On the other hand: That little butter roll box they bring to the table ... wow.)

Qualitatively speaking, the thing that I found most disappointing about CityZen was that the quality of the ingredients wasn't quite what I'd hope for/expect from a Thomas Keller disciple. At French Laundry, it seems like just about everything on the plate has a Best of Breed-ness about it, from the rabbits and fish and foie and butter to, of course, the produce, which is consistently, breathtakingly great. At CityZen, none of the ingredients jumped out; they were good, for sure, but not great.

But, then, Eric Zeibold isn't wholly to blame on that front. As a recent transplant from the West Coast myself, I have to say that the hardest thing about moving to this area is realizing that this ain't exactly the cradle of agriculture. Eric pretty much said the same thing when he came out to chat at the end of our meal. He talked at length, in fact, about the difficulty in foraging great produce around here. (He'd just sent back an entire shipment of peaches, if I recall correctly, explaining to the supplier that they weren't even close to the ripeness and quality he was looking for.) I do hope he can land some great sources, because the guy can clearly cook.

[Meaghan]

Worst part about dining at CityZen? Trying to get a damn cab to take you home!!

Or what if you're a cheap fuck and you get too drunk to find your car.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

But, then, Eric Zeibold isn't wholly to blame on that front. As a recent transplant from the West Coast myself, I have to say that the hardest thing about moving to this area is realizing that this ain't exactly the cradle of agriculture. Eric pretty much said the same thing when he came out to chat at the end of our meal. He talked at length, in fact, about the difficulty in foraging great produce around here. (He'd just sent back an entire shipment of peaches, if I recall correctly, explaining to the supplier that they weren't even close to the ripeness and quality he was looking for.) I do hope he can land some great sources, because the guy can clearly cook.

I don't agree with your assertation that "this area ain't exactly the cradle of agriculture." Have you ever been to the Eastern Shore of Maryland? Have you ever seen the operation at Westmoreland Farms in the Rapahannock Valley, have you ever been to the orchards in the shadow of the Blue Ridge? Sure, things around here are more seasonal for the simple reason that we have seasons. Zeibold just needs to look harder, good stuff is there. Sourcing great local produce occupies a great deal of time for chefs like Cathal Armstrong. If you want to see some stuff, you should head out to the Lankford farm this weekend with Camille-Beau and her crew.

[jdl]

I don't agree with your assertation that "this area ain't exactly the cradle of agriculture."  Have you ever been to the Eastern Shore of Maryland?  Have you ever seen the operation at Westmoreland Farms in the Rapahannock Valley, have you ever been to the orchards in the shadow of the Blue Ridge?  Sure, things around here are more seasonal for the simple reason that we have seasons.  Zeibold just needs to look harder, good stuff is there.  Sourcing great local produce occupies a great deal of time for chefs like Cathal Armstrong.  If you want to see some stuff, you should head out to the Lankford farm this weekend with Camille-Beau and her crew.

Eastern Shore? Nope. Westmoreland Farms? Nope. Shadow of the Blue Ridge? Nope. All I know is that a guy who should have access to the best stuff available says he's been disappointed by what he's found so far, at least vis-a-vis what was available to him in Califorina. And I've been badly disappointed by the produce that's available to me, Joe Consumer, who dosn't really have the time/wherewithal to drive forever just to find a nice piece of summer stonefruit or the perfect heirloom tomato. Overstatement on my part? Yeah, maybe. But hey, Hyperbolic is my middle name.* (* or so I'm saying for the purposes of this post.)

Let's look at this another way: If you can get the very, very, very best seasonal produce that's available locally, where will your meals be better -- here, or in Northern California?

[Joe H]

Eastern Shore? Nope. Westmoreland Farms? Nope. Shadow of the Blue Ridge? Nope. All I know is that a guy who should have access to the best stuff available says he's been disappointed by what he's found so far, at least vis-a-vis what was available to him in Califorina. And I've been badly disappointed by the produce that's available to me, Joe Consumer, who dosn't really have the time/wherewithal to drive forever just to find a nice piece of summer stonefruit or the perfect heirloom tomato. Overstatement on my part? Yeah, maybe. But hey, Hyperbolic is my middle name.* (* or so I'm saying for the purposes of this post.)

Let's look at this another way: If you can get the very, very, very best seasonal produce that's available locally, where will your meals be better -- here, or in Northern California?

I've sat in Gary Danko and overheard the person next to me say that the last time they were at Danko it was excellent. But not quite as good as what they had in Washington at Michel Richard's place.

I would also argue that areas of the Blue Ridge mountains are the equal of the Carmel Valley for beauty. That heirloom tomatoes from a farmstand at the Shell station on route 7 about six miles west of Leesburg or one of about twelve varieties of sweet white corn near Poolesville, Maryland or blueberries from Linden Vineyards off of I 66 ten miles past Gainesville or ......

I would rather have all of these right here where I grew up. No offense to San Francisco but I prefer downtown Washington, D. C. I'll also put Maestro one on one with the French Laundry and take Laboratorio over any SF Italian or even Valentino in Santa Monica in the Southland.

Perhaps we should talk about cream, pasteurized cream, like Lewes Dairy or... Well, I think you get the point. There is nothing in northern CA that is superior to the Washington, D. C. area other than wine.

If he really said this to you then I suspect that he really hasn't looked too hard. Knowing that he brought his own seeds with him when he moved here I would be surprised if he hasn't yet found soil to grow them in.

By the way, there's a farm in northern OH ( http://www.culinaryvegetableinstitute.com/ ) called "Veggie U." that grows some of the vegetables and herbs for the French Laundry. It's about five miles south of Sandusky. In Ohio.

[crackers]

I agree with both of you too. Of course the variety and seasonal availablity of produce in California will far exceed that which is found in this region. However, there are some kinds of produce sourced here that could go toe-to-toe with anything grown in California. Sure, it may take a little trial and error on the part of Chef Ziebold, but the stuff is out there. Nora Pouillon's Restaurant Nora was the first certified organic restaurant in the country and Nora has been sourcing excellent produce for a quarter of a century.

As for us mere Joe Consumers, since you are a recent transplant, jdl (and welcome, by the way) this board has a thread on farmers markets, which I hope will be a good starting point for helping you find the great seasonal produce you're looking for around here, without having to drive out into farm country. There are also some good local grocers, but I agree that you sure as heck won't find what you are looking for at the local Giant or Safeway.

Have I ever purchased an apricot or a fig in a store around here that tastes anything like what I used to pick off the trees in my backyard in California? No way. Ptoooey. Is there a cob of corn anywhere in California that is better than what I can get here at my local farm stand on any given Saturday morning in August? Show me.

To get back on topic: I don't have any complaints about the quality of the ingredients at CityZen - every bite of something new elicited at least a small moan of pleasure - the flavors, from the first bite of sea bass sashimi with chive creme fraiche, to the whallop of lambiness in the t-bone, to the last nibbles from the plate of post-dessert treats, were intense and well-balanced. The one quibble for me is the breads (other than those buttery mini-Parkerhouse rolls) which, while very good, didn't thrill. But that really is a quibble.

The Smithsonian Metro stop at 12th and Independence SW is about three easy, well-lit blocks from the restaurant. Hint: if you valet park, the parking will be validated and free (and they'll be able to find your car at the end of the evening). If you're a cheap f*** and decide to self-park, you no getta validation.

[bilrus]

The one quibble for me is the breads (other than those buttery mini-Parkerhouse rolls) which, while very good, didn't thrill.  But that really is a quibble. 

Aside from the same Parker House rolls at Per Se the bread didn't thrill me at either French Laundry or Per Se either. In both places I got the sense that it was an afterthought, coming after the famous salmon coronets and at least one other course. And it was more about the two types of excellent butter and the story about the fact that they can tell you the names of the cow the butter comes from.

I suspect that the same holds true at Cityzen.

[jparrott]

Westmoreland Farms? Do you mean Westmoreland Berry Farms? If so, then you're sorely mistaken. Thoroughly mediocre product.

[if you mean somewhere else, I'll remove this post]

[CrescentFresh]

And I've been badly disappointed by the produce that's available to me, Joe Consumer, who dosn't really have the time/wherewithal to drive forever just to find a nice piece of summer stonefruit or the perfect heirloom tomato.

Say it ain't so, Joe! You'll be thrilled to know that you don't have to drive to Hell and back to find that stonefruit or tomato. They'll deliver it right to Courthouse on Saturdays, Dupont on Sundays, DOT on Tuesdays, Penn Quarter on Thursdays, USDA on Fridays (which Ziebold could probably make it to in about 8 minutes walk from the Mandarin, or about 24 minutes if he chose to do it on all fours just to see if he could!).

Has the product been kissed by California Sunshine and California Girls? Nope. But I can tell you that the cheese from Blue Ridge Dairy beat the pants off of anything from California in its categories from the American Cheese Society. Cowgirl Creamery, Vella, Whathaveyou Dairy included.

[jdl]

Say it ain't so, Joe!  You'll be thrilled to know that you don't have to drive to Hell and back to find that stonefruit or tomato.  They'll deliver it right to Courthouse on Saturdays, Dupont on Sundays, DOT on Tuesdays, Penn Quarter on Thursdays, USDA on Fridays (which Ziebold could probably make it to in about 8 minutes walk from the Mandarin, or about 24 minutes if he chose to do it on all fours just to see if he could!).

Ah, but it IS so!

I've been to the Dupont and Penn Quarter farmer's markets, as well as various grocery stores recommended on this and other boards, and I've bought countless pounds of countless producethingys from countless growers/sources. And I consistently find myself saying, "There's no place like home." (Actually, what I usually say is: "Damn, this doesn't even come close." But same difference.) I did find some great bi-color corn, and I'm loving the apples. Especially the W.Va honey krisps. But the summer produce? Bzzzzzzt. And unfortunately, I'm one of those summer-produce people. (Alas, I wouldn't know/care about the cheese comparisons, as I'm not a Dear Dairy kinda guy. Go figure.)

[jdl]

I've sat in Gary Danko and overheard the person next to me say that the last time they were at Danko it was excellent.  But not quite as good as what they had in Washington at Michel Richard's place.

Restaurant Gary Danko has never excited me, so this comparison doesn't mean much to me. Now, if you can find me a better meal here than the white-truffle dinner I had in early December in El Dorado Hills, Calif., where the ex-Valentino executive chef Angelo Auriana is working his magic in the kitchen at Masque -- well, you win the prize. But it ain't gonna happen.

That's not even the point, though. I'm not trying to make this a here-versus-there iron cage death match in which restaurants, wine lists, maitre'ds, servers, dishware, sconces, banquettes, carpets, etc, are pitted against each other. My comments about the ingredients lacking at CityZen vis-a-vis French Laundry were just that: Comments about the ingredients lacking at CityZen vis-a-vis French Laundry. OK, so they included an accompanying whine about me not loving the produce here. But no need to defend the DC dining scene! Really. I do like it here. (Mostly.) What's not to love about living within crawling distance of Corduroy, which has quickly become a fave for me?

[CrescentFresh]

Ah, but it IS so!

I've been to the Dupont and Penn Quarter farmer's markets, as well as various grocery stores recommended on this and other boards, and I've bought countless pounds of countless producethingys from countless growers/sources. And I consistently find myself saying, "There's no place like home." (Actually, what I usually say is: "Damn, this doesn't even come close." But same difference.) I did find some great bi-color corn, and I'm loving the apples. Especially the W.Va honey krisps. But the summer produce? Bzzzzzzt. And unfortunately, I'm one of those summer-produce people. (Alas, I wouldn't know/care about the cheese comparisons, as I'm not a Dear Dairy kinda guy. Go figure.)

Ok. Quality comparisons between CA and DC Metro produce is one thing. Easy availability of the best DC has to offer is a different discussion and the one I was following.

I completely agree with Crackers that each area has its geographic advantages for specific products and completely agree with you that California grows many ingredients a bazillion times better than what grows here. So I think the "who grows better produce?" argument is kinda silly. I'm sure there are plenty of Spaniards in California saying, "You call this an olive? That Sacramento Valley heat must be gettin' to you."

So, yeah, everyone has the products they do well, and it's no mystery that many of the ingredients you're used to are better in CA. But that doesn't mean the local produce here sucks. It just not what you're used to. And the best of what this area has to offer is easily available. And I'd rather have it cut fresh that morning locally and on my plate that night than have it shipped in from CA when it was harvested godknowswhen.

Except for the olives. Have you ever tried one of them Virginia olives? Bleah!

[jdl]

Easy availability of the best DC has to offer is a different discussion and the one I was following.

You know, that's an interesting point. Maybe I'm looking for the wrong things at the markets. What are some of the in-season stars at the moment?

And yeah, California olives -- feh. There's a damn good reason most of them wind up in cans.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

You know, that's an interesting point. Maybe I'm looking for the wrong things at the markets. What are some of the in-season stars at the moment?

Perhaps the reason the summer produce tastes so much better to us around here is because we sort of go cold turkey right about now. All of the corn, tomatoes, and other fresh summer produce kind of disappear with the advent of autumn. When the stuff reappears in the summer, it's all you can do to get your fill of it before it goes away again. Unless, of course, you happen to stumble upon a restaurant that is a client of Dave Lankford; he seems to be able to pump out very fresh, almost summer tasting produce year 'round.

If you want to know what is fresh at the moment, just go to Wegmans and check out what is in the display right near the front door. This weekend, it was cauliflower, in regular, yellow and purple varieties (this is the first year I've seen the yellow variety and I've never seen purple anywhere else, it must come from a farm in PA near Harrisburg).

edited to add: This thread has veered in a direction unrelated to CityZen and it is just a matter of time before Rocks splits it off.

Edited October 17, 2005 by Jacques Gastreaux

[mktye]

I also ate at CityZen last week and everything has pretty much already been said by my dining companions. I can only add that the slight unevenness in the execution of the dishes and a few glitches in the service that I experienced last year (when they’d been open less than a month) have certainly been smoothed away.

I ordered the 5-course vegetarian tasting menu for $80. In addition to the previously mentioned pre-amuse, amuse, and other extra courses, I had a grilled matsutake mushroom and cucumber salad, warm heirloom tomatoes with a fine dice of various winter and summer squash in a tomato water sauce, and a cauliflower dish in a garlic-y cream sauce.

The dessert that was supposed to come with the veg-tasting menu was forbidden rice pudding with pineapple and coconut sauce, but I am not a huge fan of rice pudding so I asked if I could substitute the delicious-sounding hazelnut griddlecake dessert off of the 3-course side of the menu. Luckily, it was not a problem to do so "since it was dessert and would not interrupt the designed flow of the tasting menu". That was great with me because the hazelnut griddlecakes turned out to be as good as they sounded.

(And what was the next thing I had to eat after my dinner at Cityzen? French fries from the Nathan's in the food court at the Leesburg outlets. )

[Pork Belly]

Wanted to report on a terrific experience last Saturday night at CityZen, much of it due to Chef Ziebold himself.

I actually wasn't expecting to be wowed. In the past year I've had dsappointing experiences at Tru in Chicago and Sona in LA - places that do similar multi-course, over-the-top-type cuisine that critics seem to love but that usually leave me cold. So I was pushing for Black Salt. Luckily, as it turned out, I got outvoted.

Our table for six was right next to the open kitchen, less than ten feet, in fact, from where Eric Ziebold was working. The best seats in the house. I highly recommend asking for the table if you're going.

Now for the food. We had the tasting menu, which consisted of:

Mushroom fritter with white truffle (amuse bouche)

Cod cake with chive creme fraiche (amuse bouche)

Terrine of duck fois gras with Medjool dates

Sea Scallops with scallop veloute

Lamb ribeye with Yukon Gold potato and truffle macaroons

Pig's feet with split peas (off the menu, see below)

Cheeses

Lychee sorbet with sake

Amaretto meringue with cinnamon creme

Without going into detail, each was excellent. And some of the dishes - the mushroom fritter, the pig's feet, the Yukon Gold potato and truffle macaroons - were mind-blowing. Some at the table thought the fois gras terrine was a bit rich, but that's the whole point and everyone loved the dates. I'd also say that the desserts are not quite as strong as the rest.

Anyway, we were eating the scallops and my tablemate wondered aloud how they made the scallop veloute (which was really more of a foam). Without really knowing, I speculated they made a scallop stock, added cream, and whipped it up with an immersion blender. My tablemate nodded and started asking something else. Then I heard a voice next to me: "Actually, I use half cream and half milk." It was Chef Ziebold who came over from his station to correct me! It was like the Woody Allen movie where he pulls Marshall MacLuhan out from behind a sign to correct the guy going on about his theories - "You know nothing of my work . . . ." Except Chef Ziebold did it with a smile and stayed to chat.

Later, Chef Ziebold sent over the pig's feet, which was not on the menu that night. It was so perfectly porky, like the best ham you've ever tasted. Chef Ziebold told the servers not to tell us what it was and then he came over see if we could identify it (my brother-in-law was closest, guessing ham hocks).

Your coats are waiting for you as you leave and your car has been pulled up out front. No claim checks, no waiting, a nice touch.

It wasn't cheap (over $300 a couple) but unlike a lot of similar places (eg, IALW), I wouldn't hesitate to say CZ was worth it.

[DanielK]

Great first post, Pork Belly. Welcome to the club!

[LoganCircle]

I dined at CityZen for the first time last Friday night. I went with four friends, two of whom are regulars and two of whom were also first-timers. From our arrival at seven o’clock to our departure at midnight, there is little that could have improved upon our evening. The service delivered by Matt (bartender), Mark (Maitre D’), Chris (Sommelier), and Allen (waiter) was graceful and fun and Chef Ziebold delivered winning, creative dishes. Every course was a delight, but the sweet carrot soup, parmesan chiboust, and striped bass could end wars.

Chris paired each course with a different bottle of wine. We began as an enlivened table, but after consuming eight bottles of wine were edging ever-too-close to rowdy. The staff indulged us and appeared to enjoy themselves too. The non-food-related highlight of the evening was sending a glass of wine over to a middle-aged woman dining alone who would later come over and introduce herself as Frances Mayes (author of Under the Tuscan Sun). She was quite nice and wondered how we had recognized her. We, of course, had not.

My friends go regularly enough to have cultivated relationships with the staff. At our server’s recommendation, we chose not to order from the menu, but instead to have Chef cook for us whatever he wanted. What was delivered overlapped some with the tasting menu. We had:

Mushroom Fritter with White Truffle Emulsion

Clam Chowder Salad – Atlantic Razor Clam Tempura, New Crop Potato Salad, Celery Branch Gelée and Applewood-smoked bacon vinaigrette

I Tattoli Extra Virgin Olive Oil Custard with Espelette Butter

-paired with a 1996 Pol Roger Rose, Epernay, Champagne

Sweet Carrot Soup with Quatre Epices and Moulard Duck Foie Gras Confit

-paired with 2003 Michel-Schlumberger Pinot Blanc, Sonoma, Dry Creek Ridge

Warm Parmigiano Reggiano Chiboust with Herb Roasted Hen-of-the-Woods Mushrooms, Arugula and Parmigiano Oil

-paired with 2003 Martinnelli Vineyards Gewürztraminer, Russian River Valley

Sauteed filet of Mediterranean Rouget – Globe artichockes, Haricots Verts, preserved Quail eggs and Italian Parsley Broth

-paired with 2002 Littorai Mays Canyon Chardonnay, Russian River Valley

Herb crusted Filet of Wild Striped Bass with sweet carrot, caramelized parsnip, Black Trumpet mushrooms and Lobster Bordelaise sauce

-paired with a 2004 Belle Gros Pinot Noir, Santa Lucia Highlands

Crepinette of Elysian Fields Farm Lamb Saddle with Sweet Garlic and Arrowleaf Spinach Mousse, Dijon Mustard Bread Pudding, and a ragout of Rancho Gordo Flageolets

-paired with a 2002 Huber Zweigelt, Transetal, Austria

Eight assorted artisanal cheeses from the trolley

-paired with 2001 Lewis Cellars Alec’s Blend Syrah, Napa Valley

Passionfruit sorbet with Tahitian Vanilla Apertif

Torchon of Valrhona Chocolate with Dried Cherry Marmalade and Cinnamon Sugar Brioche

-paired with a Port I don’t remember

The bill was $1500 for five people.

I'll definitely return soon, and look forward to trying both the vegetarian tasting menu and the lounge special Rocks has touted. I cannot overstate the contribution of the staff to our enjoyment of the evening; they were absolutely fantastic.

[sunshine]

To add to the CityZen reports, ate there for the first time this weekend and concluded that I had set my expectations too high. Not because it wasn't delicious, but because I expected to be blown away. We had the three-course, $75 prix fixe: I started with the chilled globe artichoke soup with roasted tomato petals and grenouille croutons as an appetizer, the shoulder of shoat with shiitake mushrooms, english peas and some type of cabbagey greens as entree, and the toffee semi-freddo dessert with fresh navel orange and coriander sugar. One of my companions had the rabbit appetizer with coriander carrots, the pan-seared sturgeon with flageolets and the torchon of valrohna chocolate with brioche. The other two had selections of offal (calf's liver, ugh) and the vegetarian options so I don't remember as much about these since I didn't taste them. Bread choices were bacon-cheese, guinness rye and sourdough served with both sweet and salty butters from Pennsylvania and Vermont, respectively.

The appetizers and desserts were distinctive, but I was underwhelmed by the entrees. The shoat is some mighty fine pig, but I kept thinking of the pig shank at Komi. The sturgeon was ok, but we had a grilled sturgeon with lentils and sweetbreads at BlackSalt that kicked its ass. My dessert was the best one - semifreddo with thin crispy layer of toffee, covered in rich chocolate sauce to like an ice cream sandwich. The chocolate torchon dessert was interesting - thick disks of what tastes like an "upscale version of rich nutella," served with cinnamon brioche toast and blood orange marmalade.

The amuse bouches were the absolute highlights, especially the first one: a small mushroom morsel (fried maybe? and dusted with spices) with a white truffle sauce - heavenly. The second was a cute little bowl of thick, creamy vichysoisse with a crispy wafer crouton and minced pickled red onion on top. The third was a mini passion fruit ice cream, vanilla creme soda float. yum. The mini parker rolls in a box are fantastic, and the mini-cookie plate that comes after dessert was also a pleasant surprise: pairs of macaroons, truffles, coconut crisps, blood orange gelee, chocolate cookie. After all this, we were glad we did not get the 5 course tasting menu.

Service was good but not flawless. I guess I just don't see the value of multiple servers descending upon you to lay the plates down with flourish as they describe the food. Seemed to be more show than necessary, and some servers are more dramatic than others, so you notice it when one just plunks it down versus the other guy who does the flourish. Plus they're trying to avoid running into furniture and each other. Even with all that, it was still hard to catch the eye of our head waiter for the wine list or the check. Perhaps next time, we'll skip the dining room and do the lounge.

[DonRocks]

The other two had selections of offal (calf's liver, ugh)

Eric got in a 150-pound calf on Friday and butchered it himself. He took 25% of the liver and served it raw (!), thinly sliced as a sashimi, on Friday evening only. I let one piece sit in my mouth for awhile before chewing and it felt just like a tongue. Not a slice of tongue, but an actual tongue. One of the damndest things I've tried in quite awhile. Had it with fava beans and a nice Chianti...

The shoat is some mighty fine pig, but I kept thinking of the pig shank at Komi.

It's no secret how much I love Komi - I was there on Saturday and had that delicious suckling pig too - but I thought the shoat at CityZen this weekend was transcendent. The shoat itself was unsmoked, so it was paired with smoked steelhead trout roe in order to bring forth a bacon component - the spring radishes in that dish were insane.

Cheers,

Rocks.

[MBK]

Had it with fava beans and a nice Chianti...

That's just wrong....

[Chris W]

That's just wrong....

I thought that it was a fine pairing....different wine maybe? I'm moving this weekend to Boston and this is the one restaurant that I wished I'd have gotten to while I was here but I guess we'll have to save it for another day.

[MBK]

I thought that it was a fine pairing....different wine maybe?

So did Hannibal Lecter...

Click

(See #21)

[CrescentFresh]

So did Hannibal Lecter...

Click

(See #21)

Nice catch!

[DLB]

Has anyone dined here recently? It's been about a year since my last visit and was thinking about going again in July for our 2nd anniversary. I hate to do a repeat, but we have already done Mastro, and Eve, and I am not sure how I feel about Citronelle.

[brr]

Has anyone dined here recently? It's been about a year since my last visit and was thinking about going again in July for our 2nd anniversary. I hate to do a repeat, but we have already done Mastro, and Eve, and I am not sure how I feel about Citronelle.

Not to take this off topic, but if you don't want to repeat and haven't been to Citronelle you should go......if only for the lobster-pea bisque....

[aklewis78]

Has anyone dined here recently? It's been about a year since my last visit and was thinking about going again in July for our 2nd anniversary. I hate to do a repeat, but we have already done Mastro, and Eve, and I am not sure how I feel about Citronelle.

My gf and I had a great meal there at the end of March. IMHO, the food and service managed to exceed my already lofty expectations, which were based on past excellent experiences.

To avoid boring everybody with a blow-by-blow of the tasting menu, here's the "USA Today" version of why CityZen is among the area's best and merits your consideration: My gf is a lobster freak, yet she deemed the culotte steak the best course of the night...not that the butter-poached lobster was bad (it was incredible!); just that Chef Eric's seemingly humble steak was SO good that it made her rethink her food hierarchy.

[Erin11]

From an email I received this week from CityZen:

It is time for a vacation, so from August 22 to September 8, 2006, I will be searching Thailand for new products and spices, and CityZen will be closed but until then we are open for dinner Tuesday - Saturday.

[yassandhu]

Seriously Good Dessert Alert!

Don't laugh, but the Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough Souffle with Milk Sorbet (part of the Chef's Tasting from this past weekend) will blow your mind...

The last time I actively ordered a cookie dough dessert it came in a pint and I ate it by myself, and I felt very sick afterwards. But this dessert is wonderful and meant to be eaten in public -- it was so light and creamy but still cozy and comforting in a way that only cookie dough can be. And though I appreciated the idea of the sorbet (it worked really well as a cold supporting component), it was all about the souffle for me.

(Oh, and the rest of the food and service were great! See above posts for those details.)

[Mark Dedrick]

My wife and I ate at the bar at CityZen on Wednesday night and had one of the best meals we've eaten in DC. And the bar menu, as has been reported elsewhere on this site, is one of the best fine dining deals in the city. $45 for a three course meal, and the food is exactly what you'd get in the regular restaurant.

These were the available menu items on Wednesday:

Appetizers

BROILED BOSTON MACKEREL

Braised Belgian Endive, Ruby Red Grapefruit and Sunchoke Crisps

CITYZEN TARTIFLETTE

Yukon Gold Potato Millefeuille, Warm Brillat Savarin

Rabbit Confit and Sherry Vinaigrette

PURÉE OF PATH VALLEY FARMS SAVOY CABBAGE SOUP

with a Lobster Custard, Fennel-Lobster Mushroom Duxelles

and Lobster Infused Oil

Entrees

SHALLOW POACHED FILET OF ATLANTIC FLUKE

Lancaster County Baby Spinach, Heirloom Potatoes, Maine Sea Urchin

and Meyer Lemon Sauce

PAN ROASTED SADDLE OF ELYSIAN FIELDS FARM LAMB

Hand Cut Tagliatelle, Curry Scented Lamb Ragôut, Shaved Fennel and Raisin Salad

Desserts

CITYZEN ALMOND JOY

Amaretto di Saronno Cake with Valrhona Chocolate Ganache

and Almond Butter Sauce

ASSORTED ARTISANAL CHEESES FROM OUR TROLLEY

We were the only two eating at the bar, and for most of our meal had the entire bar to ourselves. We received great service from Scott, our bartender, and overall enjoyed our experience. I highly recommend it.

[JPW]

Welcome DCDuck.

THanks for the report. I do need to get back there.

[cheezepowder]

We went to CityZen last night to celebrate a special occasion. I made reservations a while ago so it was a coincidence that Tom’s dining guide giving CityZen the fourth star was published the same weekend. We’d been to CityZen before when it was relatively new, and I’ll admit that what I was most looking forward to were those Parkerhouse rolls. We had the five course tasting menus. Dinner was delicious and impressed me more than on my first visit (this is not to say I didn’t like the food back then). In addition to those Parkerhouse rolls, my favorites were the two amuses (mushroom fritter and the hard-boiled quail egg with prosciutto instead of the yolk) and the slice of brisket with a little strip of fat that came with the pan roasted sirloin. The rock salt is fun - they grated it over a fish amuse the first time we were there and the quail egg this time. The restaurant added some very nice touches to recognize the special occasion (card signed by the staff, complimentary glasses of sparkling dessert wine, and a celebration message beautifully written on each of our dessert plates). Service was great. We never felt like we were waiting for any of the courses and never had a reason to look for our server. He was also popping up pretty often to check on things.

The only kind of odd thing is that we didn’t experience the extra service mentioned in other posts (quoted below). Not a big deal, just something I noticed.

...After valet parking the car (free with validation from the restaurant), we were escorted into CityZen, to a table in their lounge (there is also another lounge in the main lobby of the hotel that has a better view), and our escort even informed the hostess of our presence so she could inquire to our reservation name & time. Very smooth...

We just walked into the hotel after we gave the valet our car. No one offered to escort us.

...The waiters often appeared to be playing musical chairs when they came with our various courses -- always two of them (each with a plate in hand), they would stand opposite each other and then put the plates down...

...I guess I just don't see the value of multiple servers descending upon you to lay the plates down with flourish as they describe the food....

One server came to our table and put our plates down one at a time, no flourishes.

...Your coats are waiting for you as you leave and your car has been pulled up out front. No claim checks, no waiting, a nice touch....

After dinner, we picked up our validated claim check from the hostess, went outside, gave the valet our claim check and waited for our car.

I wonder if they no longer do these things or just didn’t last night. Or maybe the valet/escort things that others experienced were special and not standard operating procedure. The large amount of space that these quotes and my related comments take up on my post does not indicate their importance. As I said, not a big deal. Just something I noticed because the fourth star implied to me the same or increased services from before (though Tom's review does focus on the food).

Dinner was wonderful with dishes that I'll be thinking about for a while.

[monavano]

Thanks for posting the details. I snagged a reservation for next Friday by calling directly since opentable.com had no Fridays (prime time) for the next several weeks (well into Nov.). The woman who helped me out actually took my number and called me back the next day. I was pleasantly surprised that she found a spot in a week. Wow.

We are very much looking forward to our first visit.

[eferguson]

my family and i ate at cityzen this past sat. night and it was hands down the best meal we have all eaten in quite a while; for some of us, ever. i had the tasting menu for $90, everyone else had the 3 course menu. so many things of note, but some highlights:

-the service-impecable

-the amuse bouches-so elegant and unexpected

-the setting and ambiance-wonderful

...and the food!! hard to describle:

-the choc. chip souffle clearly the best dessert i have ever eaten! decadent.

-two of us had the cheese course-so neat, being able to choose 4 cheeses out of the trolley

-the rabbit salad was terrific

i highly recommend cityzen. there is some amazing talent and it was such a once in a lifetime experience. this coming from someone who eats out often -- a restaurant of this caliber is such a treat!

[Joe H]

CityZen is a restaurant which demands that certain tables be reserved to fully appreciate the room. In particular table #49 for two and table #35 for four. When it first opened I wrote this on another board about our experience which was directly influenced by the table we sat at:

http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/17211...=&query=cityzen

Anyone going there should really try for one of these two tables depending on the size of your party. It WILL make a difference. Table 49 is directly in front of the open kitchen. Table 35 is adjacent to it.

(Thanks, Phil!)

Edited October 25, 2006 by Joe H

[Waitman]

Some (typically pretentious) thoughts after a night at CZ with Mrs. B. (Click me).

[Pappy]

Some (typically pretentious) thoughts after a night at CZ with Mrs. B. (Click me).

"Chef Ziebold (who – full disclosure -- we’d had the pleasure of meeting a couple of days before) to loom alarmedly over the table."

Thank you for mentioning that tidbit.

[Heather]

Chef Ziebold (who – full disclosure -- we’d had the pleasure of meeting a couple of days before) to loom alarmedly over the table.

Thank you for mentioning that tidbit.

Yes. It seems that chef Ziebold has absorbed the French Laundry conscientiousness and concern for the diner along with the technique.

[Waitman]

Thank you for mentioning that tidbit.

?

[jdl]

Dined at CityZen for the first time in more than a year last night -- and it's pretty apparent that the restaurant is operating at a higher level than before in terms of both service and cuisine.

The service is beginning to approach the heights you see at Zeibold's old place of employment (and I ain't talkin' about Vidalia). And the food was better across the board -- better ingredients, better execution and more clarity to his ideas, I thought.

We did the tasting menu with a supplement (wanted to add the short ribs to give us a second meat course as we were drinking 85 Monte Bello and 91 Dominus).

Two canapes, the more memorable of which by far was an olive oil custard with some sort of liquified red pepper that was pleasingly (and surprisingly) hot. I could have consumed a vat of this stuff.

Path Valley Farms rabbit consomme with shredded carrots, celery and three delicious almond-sized scoops of ham hock mousse

Sashimi of bluefin toro with a butter-pickle ceviche and a just-baked Yuenling popover served over a dollop of honey of unclear origin

Pan-seared medallion of Atlantic monkfish over a potato puree and topped with a gorgeous piece of seared foie and a perigourdine sauce

Red-wine braised Prime beef short ribs with parsnip "risotto," watercress duxelles (the sharpness of the cress really brought the dish together for me) and crispy bone marrow

Cubebe-crusted saddle of Elysian Fields Farm lamb with buttercream acorn squash puree, carmelized salsify and Yellowfoot chanterelles (very good, though I wish this one had been served before the beef ribs -- would have made more sense in terms of the arc of the meal)

Cheese plate (I passed and had a salad instead)

Lemongrass sorbet over diced, roasted pineapple (better than the featured dessert itself...)

Anjou pear tart with Kendall Farms creme fraiche mousse and Weiss milk chocolate sauce

And the usual assortment of petits fours

We were very pleased with the experience. Afterwards, I asked Zeibold about the improved service and he attributed it to the lack of turnover and the fact that the front-of-house folks are now more seasoned and have a better sense of their jobs and each other. And here I thought it was because I was dining with a celebrity doppelganger! (A minor Nashville celebrity -- but still.)

We'll be back sooner than later.

[Dave Pressley]

I dined at Cityzen three weeks ago with almost the same menu as jdl. We had sashimi of veal liver instead of the short ribs. It was a course I could not pass up as it was said "to only be offered by Chef Ziebold once or twice a year". I think they were playing with us when it was served with chopsticks, of all things! It was the damned slipperiest food I have ever tried to eat, much less without my trusty fork. The taste...well, let's just say I've had raw veal liver now and I don't need to try it again. (I couldn't really taste much, really. It was drowning in a soy-sesame sauce that overpowered the liver. The mouthfeel was exactly what you may think. It felt like I was French-kissing a tadpole.)

The rest of the meal was absolutely stunning. I could have eaten gallons of the olive oil custard (ours was topped with sevruga caviar) and the rabbit consomme. The monkfish was outstanding. The lamb was perfectly cooked and the lemongrass sorbet was certainly memorable. The SERVICE WAS PERFECT! All in all, it was a terrific evening and I can't wait to return.

Side Note: I took five servers from our restaurant group to dinner there as a reward for a 6-month-long contest in which they had all done extremely well. Four of them had NEVER eaten in a fine dining restaurant before and I think by their wide-eyed reactions to everything, that this dinner may have really created some life-long food lovers out of them. It was a pleasure to witness and be a part of.

[brr]

We had an absolutely wonderful meal at Cityzen on Saturday evening. This is one restaurant that absolutely lives up to expectations. Stellar service in lots of little different ways including a wonderful sommelier and you could tell they were really paying attention - based on my wifes request for one dish, they proactively came to her and offered to change a second dish, excellent food (and easily the best cheese cart in DC, stocked with lots of great cheese and served with knowledge and enthusiasm by our waiter). We went with the 5 course tasting menu and enjoyed (don't have the menu so these descriptions don't do full justice to all the ingredients) lightly seared tuna w/ crispy shitake mushrooms, shoat belly, soft shell crab on a bed of citrus fruits and rhubarb, beef tenderloin, the aforementioned cheese and AN AMAZING chocolate chip cookie dough souffle. And then add in two amuses at the beginning and at least two sweeter treats at the end.

Fantastic stuff. The only mild surprise was that such a well-stocked bar didn't have any cachaca as my wife wanted a Caipirinha for a pre-dinner cocktail (although they did offer to make one using rum).

Easily one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had in a DC restaurant in quite a while. And a beautiful room with soaring ceilings.

Now I get why people are so enthused about the $50 bar/lounge special!!

[Sthitch]

Now I get why people are so enthused about the $50 bar/lounge special!!

A little more than a week ago on the bar tasting menu they had Shout Terrine. The only way I can describe it is the way Spam should taste. It was served warm, with pickled lentils. This was an unbelievable way to start a meal.

As for the bar being well stocked, I must disagree, the selections of Scotch and Cognac are both great, but there are many other restaurant bars that puts Citi-Zen’s selection to shame (Dino quickly comes to mind).

[brr]

As for the bar being well stocked, I must disagree, the selections of Scotch and Cognac are both great, but there are many other restaurant bars that puts Citi-Zen’s selection to shame (Dino quickly comes to mind).

You're right, I guess I meant I would expect the bar at a restaurant like Cityzen to have cachaca.

[Poivrot Farci]

they had Shout Terrine.

Shoat Terrine. Does not oink as loudly as Spam.

[Sthitch]

You're right, I guess I meant I would expect the bar at a restaurant like Cityzen to have cachaca.

Even with the less than impressive selection they do put together some good cocktails. On my last visit the "Ala Minute" cocktail was house made pear syrup with Maker's. It was very nice drink, however, I wish that it came with an appropriate garnish.

[deangold]

Shoat Terrine. Does not oink as loudly as Spam.

If either are oinking at the table, however, you have had too much at the bar...

[DonRocks]

I detest cell phones in restaurants, even text messaging. Nevertheless, I was quietly sitting at CityZen last week when I felt a vibration in my pocket (get your minds out of the gutter; the food was extraordinary, but even world-class cuisine has limitations on what it can achieve).

Looking around to be sure I was unseen, with an armrest shielding my left side from anyones view, I snuck the phone out and peeked at it under the table. The message was from John Wabeck.

Jarad Slipp had just passed Level Three of the Master Sommelier exam, the message said, making him one of only a handful of people in the Washington, DC area to have done so (congratulations, Jarad!).

While continuing to enjoy my meal, I snuck a message back with my left thumb. "What's his number?" I typed, so stealthily that nobody would possibly know I had done this. I put the phone back in my pocket.

About two minutes later, another vibration. John had surely texted me back with the number, and I'd call Jarad after dinner to say congratulations.

Unable to resist looking, I snuck the phone out of my pocket again. When I looked at the message, this is what it said:

From: Eric Z

No text messages while you are eating

Received: Fri, Apr 27 8:36 pm

To the patrons dining at CityZen last Friday evening: I promise you that the person sitting by himself, on the side of the restaurant, in a laughing fit for five full minutes, complete with water coming out his nose, was not acting out of random lunacy.

Cheers,

Rocks

[Pete]

Paula and I had a very enjoyable dinner Friday night. From the moment we walked in the door to the end of the meal, we found the entire staff to be friendly and helpful. There were lots of thoughtful touches throughout, from the birthday card from the restaurant to our car waiting for us at the end of the night. Since Paula is pregnant, the staff went out of their way to make us aware of any raw/undercooked ingredients. They even have a non-alcoholic wine on their menu (which unfortunately tasted more like grape juice than wine, but was a nice touch nonetheless).

Our first amuse was the mushroom fritter with white truffle oil. We had this last year in the bar, but it is still very tasty.

The second amuse was a delicious Hiramasa carpaccio. For Paula, they prepared a custard (mushroom?), which she really enjoyed.

Since we could not decide on what to order, we opted for the tasting menu:

Purée Of Path Valley Farms Spring Garlic Soup with Roasted Sweet Pepper and Niçoise Olive Beignets

This soup was a lot subtler then what I was expecting. The garlic was not overpowering at all, and, if anything, could have been a little more assertive.

Cityzen Veal Oscar - Grilled Chapel Hill Farm Veal Sausage and Maryland Softshell Crab Tempura

This dish was very good, especially the veal sausage. Paula and I are probably the only 2 people on the planet that are not huge fans of softshell crabs. Nevertheless, we still enjoyed this dish.

Pan Seared Pacific Sablefish

Yukon Gold Potato Risotto, Watercress Purée, Hard Boiled Egg Mousse and an Applewood Smoked Bacon Chip

I really enjoyed this dish the more that I ate of it. In fact, I started analyzing this dish (and probably over-analyzed it) as I was eating it. Normally, when I get a dish at a restaurant I taste the main item first without any of the accompanying sauces/sides. So, I tried a bite of the sablefish without the egg mousse or the bacon and thought, “this fish needs salt”. Then I tried the sablefish with the egg mousse. Then I tried it with the bacon. Then I realized that I am an idiot. This dish was constructed such that you were supposed to eat the sablefish with the egg mousse or the bacon chip. Had the fish been salted properly, it would have been fine on its own; however, it would have tasted like licking a salt lick if eaten with the mousse or the bacon. Who knows, maybe I am over-analyzing this and Ziebold is laughing at me thinking “this guy is obsessing over an under-salted fish”.

Herb Roasted Martin Ranch Baby Lamb

Fricassée of English Peas, Morel Mushrooms and Garden Mint

This was cooked a perfect medium-rare for me, and they cooked it a little longer for Paula. I really enjoyed the lamb, as it had a smokey flavor that reminded me of pastrami (this is a good thing). Citronelle’s English Pea Soup and the English Peas served in this dish are the only peas that I have enjoyed since I was 5 years old. I have expensive taste in peas, I guess. Paula didn’t enjoy the peas, but she blames that on pregnancy.

Assorted Artisanal Cheeses

Cityzen has one of the best cheese carts in the area. They had at least 15 different cheeses available. Our waiter did a terrific job in explaining all of the cheeses, and made a point of picking out only pasteurized cheeses for Paula. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the individual cheeses that I got, but I did enjoy them all.

Cookies and Cream

My memory is a bit hazy but I think that it was white chocolate mousse/ice cream on top of a cookie covered in “magic shell”. It looked like a Hostess Ring Ding. Paula could not stop laughing when she saw it, which she also attributes to pregnancy . We would have enjoyed this dessert a lot more if we weren’t so stuffed at this point.

Maybe next time (post birth of child) we will do the wine pairings; however, I did enjoy my glass of Cava (1+1=3) and a Grenache/Mourvedre/Syrah blend (name escapes me but I have it written down at home). Paula was jealous of the beer pairings with the cheese course at the table next to us.

Overall, this was a wonderful evening from start to finish. I would not hesitate to return for the bar menu, and would also welcome a return to the main dining room.

[DonRocks]

Who knows, maybe I am over-analyzing this and Ziebold is laughing at me thinking “this guy is obsessing over an under-salted fish”.

You're not over-analyzing it; you nailed the dish.

[DonRocks]

Happy Birthday Rachael!

[Pool Boy]

My wife is treating me by taking me here for my birthday, my 40th. We'll be staying in the hotel as well, so all we have to do after the meal is roll ourselves upstairs.

Sweet!

I am eagerly counting the days down. heh heh heh

[jpschust]

OK, I'm going to be completely honest here. I don't get the hype over CityZen. We ate there last night, and a number of the courses were very good to excellent, though the baby lamb fell very short. Dinner was extremely expensive, moreso than our bills for the full tasting menus at Restaurant Eve and Komi and the quality of the wine, service or interaction with staff was nowhere near as high. What really got me was the wine pairings, which I will note were reduced in price for us based on the really bad lamb dish. Even so, 5 courses of wine pairings from bottles that retail for no more than 15-20 bucks, with 2-3 oz pours, where one of the wines isn't even a wine (it's Rogue Shakespeare Stout retailing at a whopping 6 bucks a bottle or so) makes me feel like I was taken for a ride.

[Pool Boy]

OK, I'm going to be completely honest here. I don't get the hype over CityZen. We ate there last night, and a number of the courses were very good to excellent, though the baby lamb fell very short. Dinner was extremely expensive, moreso than our bills for the full tasting menus at Restaurant Eve and Komi and the quality of the wine, service or interaction with staff was nowhere near as high. What really got me was the wine pairings, which I will note were reduced in price for us based on the really bad lamb dish. Even so, 5 courses of wine pairings from bottles that retail for no more than 15-20 bucks, with 2-3 oz pours, where one of the wines isn't even a wine (it's Rogue Shakespeare Stout retailing at a whopping 6 bucks a bottle or so) makes me feel like I was taken for a ride.

I rarely go with wine pairings at restaurants, jpschust. I have done it a few times, perhaps with the most success at Babbo. Komi did pretty darn good at a sparkling wine dinner, too. Did a sake pairing thing once and I think I am just not a sake person. This is why I either BYOW and happily pay a corkage fee and supplement with a half bottle off the list or a glass here and there.

As for the food and service, I hope for a great experience. I'll report back after we go. I kind of expect a lot since the chef is a TFL alum, as our server at TFL noted when we finally made it there earlier this year.

[Wine Guy 23]

OK, I'm going to be completely honest here. I don't get the hype over CityZen. We ate there last night, and a number of the courses were very good to excellent, though the baby lamb fell very short. Dinner was extremely expensive, moreso than our bills for the full tasting menus at Restaurant Eve and Komi and the quality of the wine, service or interaction with staff was nowhere near as high. What really got me was the wine pairings, which I will note were reduced in price for us based on the really bad lamb dish. Even so, 5 courses of wine pairings from bottles that retail for no more than 15-20 bucks, with 2-3 oz pours, where one of the wines isn't even a wine (it's Rogue Shakespeare Stout retailing at a whopping 6 bucks a bottle or so) makes me feel like I was taken for a ride.

guess this is where you look at the wine pairings and say, should i order or should i not,, or can i Upgrade??

upgrades are always fun, that makes teh Somm feel like you are actually interested

[jpschust]

guess this is where you look at the wine pairings and say, should i order or should i not,, or can i Upgrade??

upgrades are always fun, that makes teh Somm feel like you are actually interested

The pain is I don't even recall seeing the pairing list when we got a menu. My bad for sure, though no reason for a place of this calibur to take advantage of a patron.

[lackadaisi]

Even so, 5 courses of wine pairings from bottles that retail for no more than 15-20 bucks, with 2-3 oz pours, where one of the wines isn't even a wine (it's Rogue Shakespeare Stout retailing at a whopping 6 bucks a bottle or so) makes me feel like I was taken for a ride.

I believe the extremely poor quality of the wine pairings that I had at my meal a couple years ago is probably the main reason that I have never returned. It just left me with a very bad taste about the whole experience. Not a conscious decision to avoid the place for this, but it always comes to mind first when I think of my experience.

And, the pairings were not cheap at all; the pricing made it seem like getting the pairings was getting the upgrade. And, there was no further option to upgrade.

[synaesthesia]

And, the pairings were not cheap at all; the pricing made it seem like getting the pairings was getting the upgrade. And, there was no further option to upgrade.

I wonder, with respect to the pricing, is set by the hotel rather than the restaurant. Not to excuse the quality of the pairings themselves....

[Waitman]

Pairings are inherently suspect -- although ours were quite good when we ate there -- because they're based on a flawed premise: that there's a perfect, objective, match to every course. In fact, wine pairings are a matter of individual palate, preference, experience and mood. I'm not saying that the pairings at CityZen are not a poor value, although my experience there would not lead me to believe that they are. I'm just saying that (given reasonable pricing) you have to accept the fact that sometimes (or maybe often, if your palate is radically different from the sommelier's) you're going to have a "why did they choose that wine" moment. If you're not willing to say "hmmm, not my first choice, but an interesting attempt," you should probably just order off the list.

Furthermore (he pontificated, as the firemen wound up their hoses in the alley behind his house and the smoke, steam and adrenaline lingered), I always assume that wine by the glass -- which is what pairings are -- is more expensive, because of the risk that part of the the bottle will have to poured down the drain. On the up side, you get to taste more wines.

[Mark Slater]

Riesling solves all problems. Word.

[DaveBVI]

Riesling solves all problems. Word.

I never met a reisling i didn't finish For the risk of pouring down the drain, while at corduroy, we attempted to pair 2-4 people with something from the 1/2 bottle list...so 2 people would be 2 full glasses, 4 would be 4 half glasses, etc. (yes, mom, I CAN do math!)

d

[Waitman]

Riesling solves all problems. Word.

Liar. You believe more than you believe in Peace, Justice and the American way, in Burgundy with the occasional white Rhone thrown in.

[Mark Slater]

Liar. You believe more than you believe in Peace, Justice and the American way, in Burgundy with the occasional white Rhone thrown in.

Trust me, grasshopper, riesling first, then Burgundy.

[Wine Guy 23]

Trust me, grasshopper, riesling first, then Burgundy.

riesling is delicious.. stil lhas its steriotyped role in manys minds.. but with the true at heart it has it s studded brand in the rest..

KUNSTLER is king.

[Mark Slater]

riesling is delicious.. stil lhas its steriotyped role in manys minds.. but with the true at heart it has it s studded brand in the rest..

KUNSTLER is king.

Just a question. Where are you from?

[synaesthesia]

riesling is delicious.. stil lhas its steriotyped role in manys minds.. but with the true at heart it has it s studded brand in the rest..

KUNSTLER is king.

Yo man. Stop triple spacing! It offendeth mine eyes!

[Waitman]

Yo man. Stop triple spacing! It offendeth mine eyes!

Brown-noser!

[synaesthesia]

Brown-noser!

That's not even necessary with this hot body!

[brettashley01]

I see on the Mandarin website that CityZen is hiring a Hostess. Wondering if this is a salaried position... And just what type of personality Mr. Ziebold would be looking for...

[StephenB]

I see on the Mandarin website that CityZen is hiring a Hostess. Wondering if this is a salaried position... And just what type of personality Mr. Ziebold would be looking for...

A cheerful disposition, a memory for faces and names, a fashion sense, and an epicanthic fold.

[Pool Boy]

Riesling solves all problems. Word.

TFL made me a believer in this.

We'll be going soon and I see the corkage fee is $50. Ouch. I'll probably bring a couple of great bottles and then check out the list and decide from there to pop one of mine or go with a list choice. Anyone know much about the list? Is it more US-centric? French? Italian? Mongolian? Even? And is it crazy overpriced (say 3X, 4X or worse, or just the usual markup of 2 to 2.5X? Any good easter eggs on the list?

[Mark Slater]

The OMG food of the moment:

Rabbit rillettes on Parker House rolls with a dab of mashed potato. Holy Moly!

[Wine Guy 23]

TFL made me a believer in this.

We'll be going soon and I see the corkage fee is $50. Ouch. I'll probably bring a couple of great bottles and then check out the list and decide from there to pop one of mine or go with a list choice. Anyone know much about the list? Is it more US-centric? French? Italian? Mongolian? Even? And is it crazy overpriced (say 3X, 4X or worse, or just the usual markup of 2 to 2.5X? Any good easter eggs on the list?

andy has a few Gems on the list for sure. Depends on your range of price, there are a few steals in the Grand Cru Burgundy area, with some age that look very tempting. He is pretty reasonable in his pricing, unless it is just some overly popular wine, that needs to be exploited in price just to get people to order something else. Went there for dinner last night and it was KILLER!!! Thanks to Andy and Chase (good luck man in CA), Michael and Eric. Great evening!!

[jpschust]

andy has a few Gems on the list for sure. Depends on your range of price, there are a few steals in the Grand Cru Burgundy area, with some age that look very tempting. He is pretty reasonable in his pricing, unless it is just some overly popular wine, that needs to be exploited in price just to get people to order something else. Went there for dinner last night and it was KILLER!!! Thanks to Andy and Chase (good luck man in CA), Michael and Eric. Great evening!!

Are you kidding me? This is far and away the most overpriced list in the DC area, along with being the biggest rip off for pairings I've ever had. This is based on my visit from about 2-3 months ago, but their wine list was overpriced even for being located in a top tier hotel. The only list more marked up than this might be the Everest list in Chicago.

[synaesthesia]

Are you kidding me? This is far and away the most overpriced list in the DC area, along with being the biggest rip off for pairings I've ever had. This is based on my visit from about 2-3 months ago, but their wine list was overpriced even for being located in a top tier hotel.

Please let it go. I'm guessing this was ONE experience, and you've posted the same comment five or six times. I went and looked. Plus you two have had this conversation before.

[jpschust]

Please let it go. I'm guessing this was ONE experience, and you've posted the same comment five or six times. I went and looked. Plus you two have had this conversation before.

It's in direct reference to a current quote, and additionally it references the wine list as a whole, thus it's relevant.

[synaesthesia]

It's in direct reference to a current quote, and additionally it references the wine list as a whole, thus it's relevant.

It's another thing to go out of your way to bad mouth the wine list EVERY SINGLE TIME it comes up from one experience. I believe one restaurant owner has referred to comments like that as being stalked.

[Pool Boy]

Are you kidding me? This is far and away the most overpriced list in the DC area, along with being the biggest rip off for pairings I've ever had. This is based on my visit from about 2-3 months ago, but their wine list was overpriced even for being located in a top tier hotel. The only list more marked up than this might be the Everest list in Chicago.

I agree with jpschust, actually. The list, by and large, is overpriced to more of a degree than most restaurants even. That said, there were still a few easter eggs on the list (very few!). When my wife and I went in August, we had a nice meal. It was good, just not as good as Palena or Komi. And I opted to crack a 2002 Kistler Pinot Noir (Cuvee Elizabeth 2002) that was stellar (even if I had to pay a $50 corkage fee).

I'm not likely to head back to CityZen. It wasn't bad, it was just not as good as other places in the city. And the prices were higher too -- food and wine. The 'what you get for your dollar' value there is not nearly as good as other places. Who knows? Maybe I will try it in a year or two.

[alan7147]

It's another thing to go out of your way to bad mouth the wine list EVERY SINGLE TIME it comes up from one experience. I believe one restaurant owner has referred to comments like that as being stalked.

I think one experience is totally justifiable in determining if a wine list is overpriced or not.

[youngfood]

I think one experience is totally justifiable in determining if a wine list is overpriced or not.

I don't think that was synaesthesia's point. I read the objection to be that one need not voice their dislike for a particular wine list FIVE times. Certainly making the same comment a few times over the course of a few months is more than sufficient to hammer home one's opinion on a particular restaurant's wine cellar. Thereafter, it begins to approach piling on.

[alan7147]

I don't think that was synaesthesia's point. I read the objection to be that one need not voice their dislike for a particular wine list FIVE times. Certainly making the same comment a few times over the course of a few months is more than sufficient to hammer home one's opinion on a particular restaurant's wine cellar. Thereafter, it begins to approach piling on.

She stated "Please let it go. I'm guessing this was ONE experience" Thus, my point.

[DonRocks]

[Okay, everyone take a deep cleansing breath.

I think jpschust's comments from July were perfectly legitimate - even his second post was a response to a question directed at him.

I can see where synaesthesia sensed a pile-on with today's post, especially with the aggressive "Are you kidding me?" lead-in, and the beginning of the next sentence which says "This is far and away the most overpriced list in the DC area," which is just not true (that honor goes to Le Paradou).

I don't think anyone has done anything wrong here, but I think if I leave this discussion unmoderated, it will quickly spiral into the depths of Hell. I think the points have been made, everyone should give each other a nice, long hug, and we should continue to enjoy this lovely Indian Summer we're having.]

---

Speaking as a poster, not a moderator, I'll simply link to what I wrote for Washingtonian in January, 2006 and February, 2007.

Cheers,

Rocks.

[dcs]

. . . quick, somebody cue up "Kumbaya."

[Wine Guy 23]

Are you kidding me? This is far and away the most overpriced list in the DC area, along with being the biggest rip off for pairings I've ever had. This is based on my visit from about 2-3 months ago, but their wine list was overpriced even for being located in a top tier hotel. The only list more marked up than this might be the Everest list in Chicago.

WHAT!!! when i was there just two nights ago, he was pouring Pol Roger 98, pretty stellar, a Sorrel Hermitage 'Les Rocoules' 2003 (this bottle alone costs on a list three times as much as the price he is charging for the pairing) and Everest is about a few things, Mature Alsace (at a good price) and Mature Bordeaux ( at a fair price). got to let the grudgy- grudge go. $50 corkage is not bad, considering you go to PerSe or any place in NYC and it is 75$, and the fact that you are bringing in YOUR OWN WINE. Maybe they should just begin to charg you for the table instead like they do in Europe

[DonRocks]

[it's fine to continue this discussion, but at this point we need to debate specifics, not generalities. Let's also respect each other's opinions. Thanks, and carry on. Rocks.]

[deangold]

I think a couple of things are lost here.....

Andy does a fine job with more than just French on his list. He has some hard to get, not typically found on big time list Italians as a for instance.

Secondly, Andy does not set the pricing in that, at a hotel, it is way-upper-management that sets the profit targets. He just has to hit them.

Lastly, I cannot speak to the pairings as I have ever had them.

[Pool Boy]

I just realized that I never wrote up about my single dining experience at CityZen that was about two months ago. Here you go --

My wife treated me to a 'Lost Weekend' for my 40th birthday in August of this year. We dined at CityZen and then indulged in massages the next day after room svc breakfast and a very late lunch at Cafe Mozu.

CityZen has a nice clean and modern space with still a bit of feeling to it. The kitchen is wide open and there's plenty of hustle and bustle going on. Just a tad noisy at times. The chairs were comfortable and we were not rushed. The service was good and the sommelier there handled my BYOW (2002 Kistler Pinot) very well and it was spectacular.

We didn't take pictures or even keep a menu like we usually try to do at most (nicer) meals. It was overall a good meal. Some courses were great (tomato tart), others very good (peaches & cream thing I think, and a chocolate malt thing, another fish course) and others were just good/average (pork belly I think, a fish (branzino?halibut?) and others disappointed (lamb with couscous was overly salty (and I like salt) and otherwise lacked in real flavor -- it was the dud of the evening). The biscuits serving as your bread, though, were absolutely delicious. Anyway, I am sorry I can't provide a lot more in details, but the fact of the matter is that very few of the courses really stand out in my mind as I kick back and think about it.

It wasn't like any of this food was inedible (well, the lamb was pretty bad), it just was not what I would have called top end food, which I think it tries to deliver to you. Paying the $50 corkage fee was OK with me as I thought most of the wine list there was overpriced, and like I said above, the Kistler Pinot was stellar.

I am not sure I would go back. Maybe I would try it again, but not do the whole tasting menu thing. Maybe just order a la carte and try it in a while to see if it confirms my thoughts on the place.

[jdl]

Three-course bar menu

Consommé, English pudding

Mmmmm, braised shoat shoulder!!!

[edited to transform this from a stupid one-line post that adds nothing to the conversation about CityZen to a stupid haiku that still adds nothing to the conversation about CityZen. but the creative process sure was delicious!]

Edited November 15, 2007 by jdl

[monsterriffs]

Mmmmm, braised shoat shoulder...

For a hot second there, I thought you wrote "braised Borat shoulder" and I was like "Why would go and do something like that?? It would probably taste like goat and fermented horse urine..."

[susantf]

I lost my money and I can't find it. Oh, that's right. I gave it all to CityZen. Now I knew that I was in for a pricey meal at Cityzen, but pricey is not quite the word for it. My situation is that I can't eat sugar (poor me), so a desert course is really not my thing. When I asked if I could order just two courses, instead of the prix fixe menu, I was told, no. When I asked about the desert, I was told they could make me a bowl of fruit. I'm thinking for what is effectively a $25 desert ($75 for a 3-course prix fixe), I want your pastry chef out back with the creme brule torch, making that fruit special. They did modify a desert and what I ended up with was 4 tiny pieces of pineapple in coconut juice. Yeah.

Then there was the bread in a box. Apparently, the brown and serve rolls served in a tiny box are very tasty. So when my table asked for another serving, we were told, "Well, we're not sure. We'll check." I'm thinking, for these prices, you should cover this table with bread in a box. We did get one more box of bread (like I said, it's tiny), but the bread episode only added to the Soup Nazi ambiance.

And then there's the food. To be honest, I've had about the same or better at Oya, Vidalia, and Charlie Palmers. The food is good at CityZen, but nothing to die for. So if the Soup Nazi attitude of CityZen is based on the sheer excellence of its menu, perhaps this attitude needs to be re-thought.

I certainly won't be going back to Cityzen. I do prefer my dining to be less controlled, with less attitude, and for that kind of money, the food to be of superior, superior quality. The food was just not worth this kind of money.