Tom Sietsema's Online Chat

[zoramargolis]

I actually DO remember the fine dining experiences with my parents more than the home cooked meals... we had some awesome stuff. Will never forget the bananas foster at Commander's Palace. I was a tiny little kid and thought it was just amazing when they lit my food on fire. My Aunt took us to the Greenbrier and we ate in the formal dining room. I was a fine dining fiend from a young age.

My brother was a picky eater, and always requested his favorite meal at home for his birthday (meatloaf, mashed potatoes and canned corn ). On the other hand, I can remember at age 3 or 4 asking to go to Café de Paris for filet mignon and crepes Suzettes. Setting food on fire--yes! Special meals for me have always been in good restaurants, where I am waited on and served wonderful food that I don't have to cook and clean up afterward. My husband always wants to eat at home for his birthday. For his 30th birthday I spent all day making gateau St. Honoré (puff pastry, choux pastry, pastry cream, caramel, whipped cream and berries). It about killed me, and I have never made another one. But he asks for it every year. One year, I bought one from Patisserie Poupon, but it wasn't quite the peak experience he recalled. But since his birthday is at the height of summer, there is usually seafood involved. When the best meal you can imagine is at home, you either lack imagination, like my brother when he was a kid, or you are related to someone who's a good cook.

[DonRocks]

When the best meal you can imagine is at home, you either lack imagination, like my brother when he was a kid, or you are related to someone who's a good cook.

Or you eat out 360-365 days a year.

[Waitman]

Or you eat out 360-365 days a year.

Dude. come around anytime. We'll give you the home cookin' you need.

[Barbara]

For his 30th birthday I spent all day making gateau St. Honoré (puff pastry, choux pastry, pastry cream, caramel, whipped cream and berries).

I made one of those once and decided never again. Same with chocolate eclairs. Let the pros do that stuff.

[porcupine]

I made one of those once and decided never again. Same with chocolate eclairs. Let the pros do that stuff.

Dang. I made one of those once, too, but I had a blast doing it, and wish I had reason to do it again. If I indulged in pastry making as often as I wanted to I'd never be able to squeeze through the front door.

[saf]

Or you eat out 360-365 days a year.

Dude, you would be welcome at our table any time.

[qwertyy]

Anyone else think that between the Rogue 24 comment and the Landrum tweet that he's just trying to create some buzz for himself?

[Waitman]

Anyone else think that between the Rogue 24 comment and the Landrum tweet that he's just trying to create some buzz for himself?

I think that's what people do these days. You're a brand or you're dead.

Though the Rogue 24 comment has been much over-analyzed.

[qwertyy]

I think that's what people do these days. You're a brand or you're dead.

Though the Rogue 24 comment has been much over-analyzed.

On both counts: well, sure. But his brand has been a bit stale for a while and could use a little goosing. And over-analyzed or no, someone who earns his living spinning words that can contribute toward making or breaking of a business should be aware of the possible interpretations of that line. He could have corrected himself on the second post, but he didn't. So either he meant to say it just as many of us took it, or he's ignorant of the power of his writing... in which case, eek.

And on a personal note, I wouldn't be unhappy if he were to just pull back a bit on his style of trotting out a euphamism every time he starts overthinking. For god's sake, just call them meatballs (not orbs) and chefs (not top toques)!

[DonRocks]

And over-analyzed or no, someone who earns his living spinning words that can contribute toward making or breaking of a business should be aware of the possible interpretations of that line.

A reasonable argument could be made that he's being responsible in waiting to review Rogue 24 because he realizes his review could have high impact. It's also easy to misspeak in an online chat forum, where things are time-sensitive and somewhat rushed.

It's not my job to defend Tom, and I'll be more than happy to criticize him for long-thought-out, chronic problems such as 4 stars for (the very good) Rasika, but I find it difficult to criticize him for what he said in today's chat. A legitimate argument can be made that, okay, José Andrés is never at "his" restaurants (I have never, not once, seen him at any of them, and I've surely been to them 50 times), so why should it matter if R.J. Cooper is at his? But maybe Tom is trying to cut Rogue 24 a break, and wait a few months longer before issuing a review that could be extremely influential, one way or the other.

I'm not arguing with you, qwertyy; just offering up an alternative.

[qwertyy]

A reasonable argument could be made that he's being responsible in waiting to review Rogue 24 because he realizes his review could have high impact. It's also easy to misspeak in an online chat forum, where things are time-sensitive and somewhat rushed.

It's not my job to defend Tom, and I'll be more than happy to criticize him for long-thought-out, chronic problems such as 4 stars for (the very good) Rasika, but I find it difficult to criticize him for what he said in today's chat. A legitimate argument can be made that, okay, José Andrés is never at "his" restaurants (I have never, not once, seen him at any of them, and I've surely been to them 50 times), so why should it matter if R.J. Cooper is at his? But maybe Tom is trying to cut Rogue 24 a break, and wait a few months longer before issuing a review that could be extremely influential, one way or the other.

I'm not arguing with you, qwertyy; just offering up an alternative.

I totally agree that that could very well be what he meant and understand why he might not want to review it while the chef wasn't there.

But I don't give as much leeway on chats; yes, the published columns are more authoritative, but the Post wouldn't hold these chats if they weren't meant to hold some water, and a man who works with words needs to take responsibility for how they can be interpreted--even when he's writing on the fly. Really, I can't possibly make this point more strongly. When businesses live or die on your words, you better be goddamn careful with what you say and how you say it. (I'm kind of a tyrant bitch on this score. You should see me in the office!) But also, his answer was wierd *twice.* He volunteered this in the first question without being asked and didn't do anything to moderate or correct it in the second. It's possible that it was the most innocent of throw-off comments both times, but if I were a less anal, non-foodish person casually reading, I'd take him to be telling me not to go there, while someone more in the scene might notice that he tends to throw off a lot of comments that have more meat to them that first meets the eye--and take him to be telling me not to go there.

Either way, it's unfortunate.

*I'm not arguing either. Just having a fun debate and taking you up on your request to stir up some dust.

[Ericandblueboy]

Bitching about people who don't like Indian food. I guess we all need to learn world geography and the cuisine of each locality so we can pinpoint which food we do or don't like. If you can't dislike "Indian food," then you can't like "Indian food" either.

[Fishinnards]

Bitching about people who don't like Indian food. I guess we all need to learn world geography and the cuisine of each locality so we can pinpoint which food we do or don't like. If you can't dislike "Indian food," then you can't like "Indian food" either.

I don't like European food. I find it bland and insipid.

Kidding!

But, It's not like there is a huge range of regional South Asian cuisine represented by Indian restaurants. In my experience they almost always have the same tandoori/Punjabi/Mughal menu. Besides a couple of (generic) South Indian places (dosas, idlis, etc.), I can't think of any restaurants specializing in the cuisines of Kerala, Parsi, Gujarat, Rajasthan, etc. etc. Tom and the poster may be right in that there is a huge range of cuisines being dismissed when one states that they do not like Indian food, however almost none of this diversity is represented in "Indian" restaurants.

[monavano]

I think there is an archetype of Indian cuisine (and Chinese cuisine) that most Americans are familiar which is "monolithic", and most Americans would not even be aware of the various regional specialties that Fishinnards is and has mentioned above (and demonstrates so well!). So when someone generalizes and says "we don't like Inidan food", I get what they mean and so does Tom. You can choose to educate or to be petulant and proffer a geography lesson (referring to the responding chatter).

[treznor]

Plus, the same could be said for most any cuisine. For those that 'don't like Italian' northern Italian food is different than southern Italian (and don't even get over to the islands where its different still). Chinese cuisine varies quite a bit based on location, etc. Take it for what it is, namely a name that includes a conglomeration of affiliated regional cuisines, and realize that if you don't like a handful of 'Indian' restaurants, there's a pretty good chance that you aren't going to like the next Indian (or Chinese, or Italian, or whatever) restaurant either, even if it focuses on a different regional cuisine.

[DonRocks]

All I know is this: if there are any vegans in the world who don't like Indian cuisine, I feel sorry for them.

[Pat]

When people ask general questions on chats like that (or boards like this), the responders often ask for them to narrow down their criteria. This questioner did specify things like ages of her children, that they were adventurous, and inside the Beltway, in addition to the no Indian. It's pointless for the questioner to ask for recommendations without blocking out things they are not interested in, whether it's "nothing in Montgomery County" or no "Tex-Mex or Mexican." If Tom were to give three answers to this person and two were Indian restaurants (and Rasika is one of the top places he recommends, always), it's not too helpful.

[bookluvingbabe]

This might be a spin off....

I have never had an Indian meal I have enjoyed. Not at Rasika or Spice Xing or Heritage India or Delhi Darba or at any of a dozen other places I have tried to humor friends. I have ordered widely. What I do know now is that there is something in each experience that has triggered massive, painful acid reflux.

Perhaps I haven't ordered the right dish. Or found the right region. But life is too short to keep experimenting with something that makes me ill.

So yes, I have written off the entire subcontinent.

Sigh....

[zoramargolis]

This might be a spin off....

I have never had an Indian meal I have enjoyed. Not at Rasika or Spice Xing or Heritage India or Delhi Darba or at any of a dozen other places I have tried to humor friends. I have ordered widely. What I do know now is that there is something in each experience that has triggered massive, painful acid reflux.

Perhaps I haven't ordered the right dish. Or found the right region. But life is too short to keep experimenting with something that makes me ill.

So yes, I have written off the entire subcontinent.

Sigh....

Have you tried taking an acid blocker like Prevacid beforehand?

[bookluvingbabe]

Have you tried taking an acid blocker like Prevacid beforehand?

Yes. It hasn't helped. Sigh...

[Ericandblueboy]

Hi Tom! For my birthday I want to get some dim sum in Montgomery County. There is a lot of talk about New Fortune, Good Fortune, and Silver Fountain. Can you recommend one over another? We are moderately adventurous, so not looking for the most exotic. Just the tastiest place where we won't have to wait forever to the dim sum carts to come rolling by. Thanks!

A.

Tom Sietsema :

I always have good experiences at A & J, which has branches in both Annandale and Rockville (the original).

Unless things have changed since my last meal in Maryland, the Chinese small plates are served on trays rather than carts and the restaurant takes cash only. But that's a small price to pay for some great eating: smoked chicken, mustard greens tossed with bean curd skin, long fried-pork potstickers and on and on.

I don't know if the OP could be any more clear that he/she really wants dim sum, not some small plates masquerading as dim sum. You know why A&J doesn't serve their small plates on carts? It's because it's not dim sum/yum cha.

[jparrott]

Having done a lot of yum cha in Hong Kong about a year ago, almost none of the good places use carts. So carts in and of itself are not an indicator of "proper" yum cha. That said, A&J is Shanghainese by way of Taiwan, so it is different food.

[JimRice]

This might be a spin off....

I have never had an Indian meal I have enjoyed. Not at Rasika or Spice Xing or Heritage India or Delhi Darba or at any of a dozen other places I have tried to humor friends. I have ordered widely. What I do know now is that there is something in each experience that has triggered massive, painful acid reflux.

Perhaps I haven't ordered the right dish. Or found the right region. But life is too short to keep experimenting with something that makes me ill.

So yes, I have written off the entire subcontinent.

Sigh....

For what it's worth, my wife always gets heartburn after Indian. The only exceptions being when Indian friends made the food at home, or when we've eaten at Bombay Curry Company.

[Ericandblueboy]

PITCHERS OF WATER REFUSED

I know I drink a lot of water at meals and I therefore ask for a pitcher or other large container of water. Almost every time the waiter/waitress denies my request. Based upon poor experiences in the past, my tip is based almost entirely upon how often I run out of water. If my glass is never empty, I leave 20%. Each time I run out of water the tip drops by 5%. I have left a $0.01 tip several times when my drink was never refilled.

A.

TOM SIETSEMA :

What reason do the servers give for not giving you your own pitcher?

Yeah douchebag, most restaurants don't have pitchers for patrons. The response should've been, what kind of fucking asshole are you? Please get the name of this asshole so restaurants can ban his/her stupid ass.

PENNY TIP?

Unless you warn a waiter, this is totally unacceptable. And even then. Waiters are not slaves. They are managing multiple tables, and a water glass might run dry, especially if you are a big water drinker. Imagine if you boss comes in after a days work and tells you he or she did not appreciate some arbitrary aspect of your performance and refused to pay you. You have done the same thing. Only the waiter can not sue. So uncool.

A.

TOM SIETSEMA :

I'm not a fan of the penny/dime/dollar tip, either, no matter how poor the service is

.

Thankfully someone spoke out. Why isn't Tom chewing out the OP if he really agrees with the response.

[Ericandblueboy]

My husband and I chose RIs for Valentine's Day dinner. Our server was great and very attentitve and sympathetic. We were seated promptly and our food was comped. That was the good. The bad was everything else. It had been 45 min when I looked at my watch and we still had not been served our appetizers. The lobster bisque was mostly bisque. Then the entrees came and the ribeye was overcooked. The lamb shank was tender as promised and the ravioli appetizer was very flavorful and interesting. That is another good. But as parents to a 16 month old and normal ordinary people we cherish our time and our money. It definitely helped that the meal (other than the wine was comped) but we didn't go out to be comped. So it was a lose lose for everyone.

The lobster bisque was mostly bisque? Isn't that what you ordered, bisque? Wait, did you think there would be a whole fucking lobster in the bisque? What makes these morons think that dinner on Valetine's day would be quick and painless?

[bookluvingbabe]

I think the water poster was upfront. He could just bring in a huge water bottle of his own but that would offend people too.

I often wish servers were quicker to fill water glasses and if they sit empty for too long, I slash the tip too. Had one nasty situation where 4 requests plus a discussion with the manager and I never did get any water.

[JuneBacon]

How can that be a lose lose situation if you ate for free? Hahahahaha.

You cherish your money eh? You just got a free meal.

[mdt]

The lobster bisque was mostly bisque? Isn't that what you ordered, bisque? Wait, did you think there would be a whole fucking lobster in the bisque? What makes these morons think that dinner on Valetine's day would be quick and painless?

I wish they could name these jackasses.

[Joe H]

Yeah douchebag, most restaurants don't have pitchers for patrons. The response should've been, what kind of fucking asshole are you? Please get the name of this asshole so restaurants can ban his/her stupid ass.

Thankfully someone spoke out. Why isn't Tom chewing out the OP if he really agrees with the response.

They should charge a premium to sit closer to the bathroom.

[ol_ironstomach]

Yeah douchebag, most restaurants don't have pitchers for patrons. The response should've been, what kind of fucking asshole are you? Please get the name of this asshole so restaurants can ban his/her stupid ass.

Thankfully someone spoke out. Why isn't Tom chewing out the OP if he really agrees with the response.[/font][/color][/size][/font][/color]

Collective ire being the ugly thing that it is, let's tone it down a bit and stick to ostracizing this douchebag more eloquently (or at least, creatively) than just spouting invective. More fun for the audience that way. Also sharpens the contrast when Don goes off on another rant of his.

DR.com - where the eating elite mete the heat.

[bookluvingbabe]

if it had been butternut squash bisque and the complaint had been that there was no discernable butternut squash in there, would that have made the complaint acceptable?

[DonRocks]

if it had been butternut squash bisque and the complaint had been that there was no discernable butternut squash in there, would that have made the complaint acceptable?

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but my impression is that the diner was expecting chunks of lobster meat in the bisque.

[Ericandblueboy]

Tom has absolute discretion (to my knowledge) over what gets published online. He doesn't have to provide a forum for these yahoos, but if he does, he has a responsibility, in my opinion, to respond firmly to ludicrous behavior. Otherwise, even more yahoos will think that kind of behavior is acceptable - because Tom didn't object. With respect to the penny tipper, I can just see this person sitting there passively all the while calculating how he/she can screw the server. And then Tom actually seems to side with this person with the following exchange:

PITCHER REFUSAL

They say it is restaurant policy to not have a caraff or pitcher on the table.

A.

TOM SIETSEMA :

Okay. But wouldn't open bottles of designer water be a liability then, too?

Tom, no one said it was a liability issue. You make it sound unreasonable for restaurants not to provide pitchers of water.

With respect to the clueless new mom, Tom's response was "Drat. Sorry to hear that." How about pointing out that Valentine's Day is a busy day for restaurants and delays should be expected? And that comping the entire dinner is a very generous gesture on the restaurant's part? And that lobster bisque usually just has bisque? I've never really disrespected his palate, but increasingly I find his judgement, or the lack thereof, questionable.

[hillvalley]

They should charge a premium to sit closer to the bathroom.

This needs to go in the Joe H hall of fame.

[Joe H]

Thank you, hillvalley. Just seemed appropriate for all of the water they would drink. Alternatively, of course, would be a pay toilet with the proceeds going to waitstaff.

[ktmoomau]

Thank you, hillvalley. Just seemed appropriate for all of the water they would drink. Alternatively, of course, would be a pay toilet with the proceeds going to waitstaff.

Yeah, but then that causes other problems when you have patrons who have imbibed too much and don't have any change, and they probably tip well

[DonRocks]

Tom has absolute discretion (to my knowledge) over what gets published online. He doesn't have to provide a forum for these yahoos, but if he does, he has a responsibility, in my opinion, to respond firmly to ludicrous behavior.

I've got to stand up for Tom here. On this website, I have the luxury of time. If there's a questionable issue that comes up, I can take a deep breath, I can go out for a walk, I can even sleep on it if I need to (and sometimes do); The Washington Post's is a real-time chat, and I don't think you can hold it to the same editorial expectations - plus, he's got to be very careful what he says (his answers are real-time, too, and they're read by a lot of people).

During Phyliis Richman's closing months, there was a palpable sense of fatigue in her chats. Quite frankly, I don't see how Tom has done it for as long as he has. These chats used to be the only game in town. Then, internet food boards became popular, Todd Kliman made a naked power play by starting Washingtonian chats the day before, and now you've got hundreds of little voices, peeping and chirping, all around the town, trying to drown each other out trolling for internet worms. The Catch 22 is that discussions about the chat (such as this) are exactly what the Post wants; yet it's this very type of scrutiny that can grind one's endurance down to the core.

I really favor (and am grateful for) the semi-realtime format of a discussion board such as this, with the ability to retract mistakes, apologize for errors, and think about what you want to say before pounding it out on the keyboard.

[Ericandblueboy]

Tom, if you start with a drink in the bar before heading to your dinner table, do you settle your tab at the bar or do you ask for the tab to be transferred? I always find that settling the tab helps the bartenders, but I have friends who consistently wish to have it transferred. Thoughts?

A.Tom Sietsema :

I prefer to get one tab for everything, so I tend to ask to have my bar bill transferred. Some restaurants are fine with that, others aren't. It varies from place to place. To keep the bar tenders happy, I generally tip them before I move into the dining room.

Q. But... if you tip the bartender when you transfer your bill, doesn't he get tipped twice? Once by you directly, and again when the server's tips are pooled? Or do you account for that somehow in the tip you put on your total bill?

A. Tom Sietsema :

What I *try* to do is pay for the drinks and leave a tip for the bar tender before I move on to my table, which means I'd be starting over, with a fresh tab.

Tom Sietsema :

I've had the same happen to me before, only in Amsterdam. Fortunately, I caught my mistake before my flight home.

Before I left the country, I wrote a short note to the restaurant, explaining the reason for the money in the sealed envelope and describing my server as best I could. I was able to drop off the letter in person, since the restaurant was close to another I was visiting. The staff was surprised by the gesture and to my relief, my waiter happened to be in the restaurant. He didn't remember me, however, or the poort tip I gave him!

That might have something to do with the fact that Europeans in general don't tip.

You asked a couple of weeks ago about the etiquette of using a linen table napkin as a handkerchief, since you'd seen someone do this. According to The Manor House (a book about the Edwardian Country House) in no case should the table linens be used as handkerchiefs. The person you saw should have used a linen handkerchief--or a paper tissue. I think this dictum is in part because table napkins were reused prior to launering (thus the use of identifying individual napkin rings)--something my parents discovered when they stayed at a posh hotel in Nairobi in the late 1960's...and my mother got lipstick on hers. She was upset that the lipstick stained napkin returned at subsequent meals.

I'm guilty of having used the napkin to blow my nose. Didn't know it's such a big deal, especially since table napkins at restaurants aren't reused prior to laundering - that is disgusting.

Finally, what's the big deal if somene wants to grab a bite to eat in between the wedding ceremony and the sit-down dinner? I'll be the first to admit that wedding food suck ass, even at my own wedding. In fact, I remember while attending a wedding at the Goodstone Inn, I snuck out to watch US Open golf, returning just in time for dinner.

[Pat]

Finally, what's the big deal if somene wants to grab a bite to eat in between the wedding ceremony and the sit-down dinner? I'll be the first to admit that wedding food suckss, even at my own wedding. In fact, I remember while attending a wedding at the Goodstone Inn, I snuck out to watch US Open golf, returning just in time for dinner.

The issue wasn't so much grabbing a bite to eat (the chatter didn't indicate how long the break was between wedding and reception). It's that this person had decided in advance the food was going to be unacceptable and planned to go to another place to eat first and then just push the food around on the plate at the reception. If there's a long break and you think you'll be overly hungry by the time the reception food arrives, or you want to make sure you've got something in your stomach before imbibing reception booze, that's somewhat a different story.

The wedding couple is paying a lot of money for that food, you are their guest, and it's just rude to fill up first because you assume you won't like the food. Then to try to poach other wedding-goers to participate in your plan is even worse. It was interesting that the other people they approached wouldn't go along with it, saying that it's rude.

[ktmoomau]

The gaps in time between a wedding and reception always annoys me personally, I mean really what am I supposed to do in that time dressed in what I am wearing, with hair, heels and makeup- impractical to sight see, or sometimes they are in locations that you can't really just jot out to do something, and if you want time for pictures why not have a cocktail hour, but not my decision and luckily the amount of weddings per year I am going to seem to be waining.

I think going to a bar is perfectly acceptable, inviting others to join sure- you aren't telling them to abscond presumably there is time, all the time you don't need. Flat out saying you want to eat something besides wedding food is perhaps best left unsaid. Although knowingly feeding people bad wedding food just isn't nice at all either, and in that case you should in no way be offended. But I think you should note you don't want a meal if possible, in case they can plan for that expense wise. Wedding meals are appalling expensive for what you get. We actually had good food, but I am sure it still wasn't what some would prefer, everyone has different tastes. I think the posters suffered from a lack of being able to word things politely more than anything else, this happens often.

[bookluvingbabe]

When we planned our wedding, we specifically made sure there was no gap. Our first "public" date was at a good friend's wedding that included a 3 hour gap, a 40 minute drive between the ceremony and the reception and it was 100 degrees out.

I think 8 or 10 of us ended up at the food court at White Flint because it was air-conditioned and we knew we could get cool drinks. I don't know why we didn't have a better plan...

I do think it is bad to assume the food is going to be bad, unless you have prior knowledge of the caterer.

I will confess that went out to dinner before the last Bar Mitzvah I went to based on my experience with the caterer previously though.

[Ericandblueboy]

The wedding couple is paying a lot of money for that food, you are their guest, and it's just rude to fill up first because you assume you won't like the food. Then to try to poach other wedding-goers to participate in your plan is even worse. It was interesting that the other people they approached wouldn't go along with it, saying that it's rude.

The wedding couple, or their parents in some cases, is paying for that food. I am a guest but the rule is your wedding gift should cover the cost of your plate. In substance, I'm paying for that food. I think to tell them that I will eat in advance so I'll just sit there and watch everyone else eat is even more insulting. Here's one other consideration - if I'm traveling to a wedding and there's a restaurant that I can squeeze in that I really want to try, I will do so without much hesitation.

[Tujague]

I am a guest but the rule is your wedding gift should cover the cost of your plate. In substance, I'm paying for that food.

Miss Manners just shit herself. You've been invited by the couple to witness wedding vows. This isn't a market transaction with a "rule" regarding the cost of a present vs. the cost of a dinner plate. It's about THEM, not you. What difference does it make if it's parents rather than the couple paying for the event? You're responding to an invitation presumably because they at the very least respect you. Do them the same favor or stay home and work on growing up.

[B.A.R.]

^{I remember hearing something a few years ago that the custom in Japan is that guests pay for nothing, and do not present a gift. This includes travel to the wedding, hotel rooms, etc. But there is a quid pro quo, in that if you accept the invitation, you reciprocate in kind. Essentially, wedding expenditures are one big community escrow. Can anyone with knowledge of Japanese culture clarify this, or call me an idiot?}

^{Back on topic, I was amused that Tom seemed surprised at the news of Restaurant Element "run by two former IALW alumni" in Front Royal. Did he not remember that he reviewed Apartment 2G?}

^{***ROCKS, WTF is wrong with my default font size and spacing, and how do I change it?}

---

Go up into the "Size" box (5th thing from top left) and change it to size 14.

Edited March 29, 2012 by DonRocks

[goodeats]

As far as I know, the East Asian culture typically prepares monetary gift for weddings. It is definitely a big community and contributing to the start up pot helps the newlyweds establish their marital foundation together.

One of my favorite Chinese wedding traditions is the tea ceremony, where the couple honors the parents with tea to thank them for raising them properly and then, in return, is thanked with the red envelopes.

When a relative, who is Japanese, on my BIL's side was getting married, my sister and BIL paid for their own plane tickets, so I am not sure if it is a regional or religious custom that you speak of, BAR.

[Ericandblueboy]

Miss Manners just shit herself. You've been invited by the couple to witness wedding vows. This isn't a market transaction with a "rule" regarding the cost of a present vs. the cost of a dinner plate. It's about THEM, not you. What difference does it make if it's parents rather than the couple paying for the event? You're responding to an invitation presumably because they at the very least respect you. Do them the same favor or stay home and work on growing up.

I was thinking about responding in kind but I'll just stick to making my case. I've attended weddings that are done without much of a budget and the couple paying for it couldn't care less whether you eat the buffet or not. To quote you, "it's about THEM," not the food. I've attended weddings thrown by the couple's parents who are more interested in showing off how much money they have as exemplified by this response to the chat:

Tom, I was the mother of the bride. The wedding was at the Ritz-Carlton. The couple & both sets of parents attended a tasting to make sure the food was delicious--and at the price we paid, it had better have been!

The outrage is the latter case is more like - how dare you to think that I won't pay for delicious food!? Those weddings are more about the parents than about the couple. I also want to distinguish a wedding from a dinner party. A dinner party's purpose is to socialize around food. A wedding's purpose isn't. Maybe some weddings are in the form of dinner parties where the sit down dinner is the focus, then in that case I would agree that not eating the food would be disrespectful.

My point about "covering your plate" is simply to state that there is the unwritten rule that the guest pays for his share of the wedding cost - it's not the case that I'm a begger AND a chooser. While a wedding isn't a "market transaction," I'm still paying for my food and drinks (usually in the form of a check, because I'm east Asian and I value practicality). Finally, I'm being invited presumably because I'm a friend. I can honestly say that I don't respect all of my friends and everything they do but I'm still friends with them. And my friends know me and what I'm wont to do.

I find it ironic that people who accuse others of being rude do it so rudely.

[goodeats]

Eric - I am genuinely finding that I am not sure what your point is in all of your writings. Could you clarify what stance you are trying to take? Are you upset with the food, the friendship part, or the mother of the bride? I'm rather lost.

PS. I hope you realize it's a faux pas in Chinese culture to send a check, right?

[Ericandblueboy]

Eric - I am genuinely finding that I am not sure what your point is in all of your writings. Could you clarify what stance you are trying to take? Are you upset with the food, the friendship part, or the mother of the bride? I'm rather lost.

PS. I hope you realize it's a faux pas in Chinese culture to send a check, right?

The part about eating elsewhere rather than at the wedding itself. Isn't it apparent from this sentence - "what's the big deal if somene wants to grab a bite to eat in between the wedding ceremony and the sit-down dinner?"

I give envelopes of cash to Chinese people, checks to Americans. How's that? Substantively there's no difference between a check and cash. Since I'm Chinese and American, I'm not bound by the senseless traditions of either culture.

[DonRocks]

[Okay, points made on all sides. Let's move on, please. ]

[goodeats]

The part about eating elsewhere rather than at the wedding itself. Isn't it apparent from this sentence - "what's the big deal if somene wants to grab a bite to eat in between the wedding ceremony and the sit-down dinner?"

Okay - don't need to get testy about it, then.

Substantively there's no difference between a check and cash. Since I'm Chinese and American, I'm not bound by the senseless traditions of either culture.

Well, substantively, there is a difference if the check bounces. Just saying. Not directed at you. But a point of technicality. As regarding the second point, again, no need to get testy.