Kitchen 911

[stickmoon]

Thanks porcupine!

[porcupine]

How long can one (safely) store fat rendered from pork fat back, if it's kept in the refrigerator? Thanks.

[Anna Blume]

I don't know, but Iard keeps for a long time, though your question reminds me that I ought to transfer the jar of lard I opened for Thanksgiving into plastic storage bags to place in freezer which is my norm.

[Pat]

Since I didn't want to have to deal with grocery stores today or tomorrow, when I was at Whole Foods yesterday afternoon, I bought the mussels I needed for tomorrow night, figuring they'd be okay in the coldest part of my refrigerator for 48 hours. I was expecting the kind pre-packaged in a mesh bag, but the employee got them from the display on ice where they keep other shellfish. She tossed a whole lot of them away before getting the amount I needed, which should have been a red flag and a sign for me to cancel the order. I usually have good luck with that seafood department, though.

I put them in a large metal bowl on top of the ice they came with and stuck it in the coldest part of the refrigerator. Early this morning I checked to make sure they were okay, figuring that the ice would be melting and they should not be stored in water. The ice hadn't melted at all and a number of them were open. It looks like they (or some of them) froze in the refrigerator. I washed the unopened ones off and stuck them in pan back in the refrigerator without ice.

At this point I've tossed at least half of what I bought and am unsure about the safety of the rest of them. Some of the shells are discolored (white) and I'm wondering of that's from being frozen. It's not a dealbreaker to make only half as many as I intended, but I need to decide if I should toss the remainder and buy more (or just abandon the idea of having mussels tomorrow).

Help?

[Anna Blume]

Bring the sorry, dead things back to WFM to effect change! I used to buy mussels at WFM on a regular basis, but stopped some time ago because of the new practice of selling them individually displayed on ice in front of the glass cases. The bags of mussels had dates of harvest printed on label which is useful information.

[Pat]

Bring the sorry, dead things back to WFM to effect change! I used to buy mussels at WFM on a regular basis, but stopped some time ago because of the new practice of selling them individually displayed on ice in front of the glass cases. The bags of mussels had dates of harvest printed on label which is useful information.

I don't want to hang onto them until the next time I'm out there. The next time I checked, about 80% of the surviving ones were open, so they're all getting trashed. I hadn't had any trouble buying them there before, but I'd never gotten them loose. Not doing that again. Between that and the freezing issue, it was a mess.

Still not sure if I'm going to try to buy more or just change my menu.

[Anna Blume]

^Whatever you do, Pat, get your money back. At least call. Feedback's useful.

**********

How long does it take to flatten beer? I've kept a few bottles open since Tuesday evening and there's still fizz. (Yes, I know about exposing much surface vs. keeping in bottles. Just curious for next time, if I'm happy w results.

[monavano]

I don't want to hang onto them until the next time I'm out there. The next time I checked, about 80% of the surviving ones were open, so they're all getting trashed. I hadn't had any trouble buying them there before, but I'd never gotten them loose. Not doing that again. Between that and the freezing issue, it was a mess.

Still not sure if I'm going to try to buy more or just change my menu.

^Whatever you do, Pat, get your money back. At least call. Feedback's useful.

**********

How long does it take to flatten beer? I've kept a few bottles open since Tuesday evening and there's still fizz. (Yes, I know about exposing much surface vs. keeping in bottles. Just curious for next time, if I'm happy w results.

I noticed that WF had the mussels loose too. I haven't bought mussels from WF in a long time, since even the ones I bought in a net bag were half dead and the survivors were anemic. Terrible batch.

AB, what are you using the beer for? I've saved an open bottle for well over a week in between making bread (ANKB) and with a rubber stopper to seal it, it popped and had lots of fizz all that time later.

[Anna Blume]

Leaving cap off for several days, I figured the beer would be flat by today. I'm making mustard which does not go through the whole canning process. Not sure why flattened beer is specified in numerous recipes except for ease in food-processor blitz: I am hoping the live yeasties don't adversely affect other ingredients, especially the raw apple in one batch. Lots of vinegar's involved.

[Barbara]

This is interesting. I've bought bags of mussels from Mr. Safeway that were farmed in Maine and had no problems with them. I always checked the date on the tag, though, since Mr. Safeway will happily sell you rotten seafood. I once bought some mussels from the place that cropped up in the old Larimer's space for awhile, but they were so full of sand, I never could get them clean. Lately, WF sold me a rotten trout. What's up with those people???

[DonRocks]

Lately, WF sold me a rotten trout. What's up with those people???

[is there enough here to make a separate thread?]

[Pat]

I noticed that WF had the mussels loose too. I haven't bought mussels from WF in a long time, since even the ones I bought in a net bag were half dead and the survivors were anemic. Terrible batch.

After I gave up on the WF ones, I bought some from the fishmonger at Eastern Market this afternoon. They were also packed up loose. Feeling gunshy, I decided to make my mussels tonight instead of waiting. Out of two pounds of mussels, none were open when I got home, and only two mussels didn't open after cooking. A world of difference.

I don't know that I feel like calling WF on Christmas Eve to discuss this, but I'll take my receipt next time I go in and talk to the people at customer service.

[Sundae in the Park]

^{Is it safe/recommended to eat a hard cheese (parm) that has gone moldy (the regular green bread-mold-looking mold)? I eat gnarly premolded cheese without blinking, so I assumed it would be fine, but now my mouth feels weird and I am unsure if I should keep the rest. What do you all think?}

[thistle]

If you shave off the mold, I would think the stuff underneath would be ok...I wouldn't recommend this for anything other then cheese or maybe cured meat...

[The Hersch]

If you shave off the mold, I would think the stuff underneath would be ok...

Yes, I do this all the time, with many kinds of cheese. It would be a sin to throw a whole piece of cheese away because of a bit of surface mold. If the mold has penetrated deep into the cheese, that's another matter, but I've never seen that happen with a hard cheese like parm. It's also odd that sometimes I'll have a piece of parm or grana around for months with no mold at all, but other times the mold starts appearing within a week or two of purchasing it.

[Sundae in the Park]

Great! Thanks, guys. There's quite a bit left and I didn't want to waste it. Cheese doesn't usually last this long at my house, so this was a first-time experience for me.

[lperry]

A mycologist once told me that if there is surface mold on bread or cheese, the hyphae, or the nearly microscopic threads that make up the body of the fungus, have penetrated the interior of the food. He swore he wasn't joking. I don't know how dangerous it really is, but his comment grossed me out enough that I vacuum seal my cheeses now to prevent premature molding.

[goldenticket]

...I vacuum seal my cheeses now to prevent premature molding.

I'm curious what recommendations folks have for vacuum sealers. Looks like they run the gamut from $12 (Reynolds) to hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars.

(and that microscopic thread thing is pretty gross! )

[dcs]

A mycologist once told me that if there is surface mold on bread or cheese, the hyphae, or the nearly microscopic threads that make up the body of the fungus, have penetrated the interior of the food. He swore he wasn't joking.

Even the uber-cautious FDA doesn't go this far.

Discard most moldy foods. You can sometimes save hard cheese, salamis, and firm fruits and vegetables by cutting the mold out, but if mold growth is extensive, throw the food away.

[DrXmus]

I've heard what the FDA says for years, too. For hard cheeses, cutting mold off is OK. Not so for soft cheeses.

[lperry]

I'm curious what recommendations folks have for vacuum sealers. Looks like they run the gamut from $12 (Reynolds) to hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars.

(and that microscopic thread thing is pretty gross! )

I have the little Reynolds one, but you have to buy the bags online now. It's supposed to be for the freezer, but I use it for things in the fridge and like that it just tucks in a drawer. My Mom has a big sealer, and it's nice if you put lots away in the freezer for longish periods of time.

Even the uber-cautious FDA doesn't go this far.

Yes, but they write "sometimes" and don't define the density of a "hard cheese" or what "extensive" growth might be. This type of language means nobody tested it. The mycologist told me he and some friends sectioned and put a questionable cheddar under the microscope, and there were the hyphae, right to the center of the block. I didn't ask how moldy the outside was, but I'll still err on the side of caution. I don't think it's a serious safety issue, but it isn't particularly appetizing, either.

Edited to add, the mycologist who taught my class would not eat raw mushrooms, not even Agaricus, because of potential toxins, and also avoided peanuts and blue corn because of aflatoxin. Apparently, it's cumulative. Perhaps it's best just not to know about these things.

[legant]

I'm curious what recommendations folks have for vacuum sealers. Looks like they run the gamut from $12 (Reynolds) to hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars.

I'm in love with my FoodSaver mini especially since I can get replacement bags at Bed Bath & Beyond. Use it for cheeses... last summer's produce... and portioning value-sized packs of meats.

[Anna Blume]

Baking 911 question:

Why doesn't this recipe include baking powder? Usually, whenever I cook with buttermilk, the recipe requires a mixture of baking soda and baking powder. I'll follow the directions since none of the comments complain about leavening, and I know bp contains soda, but I'm curious. (I am substituting butter for the oil, though.)

[goodeats]

^no good reason. Powder reacts better with buttermilk-curious-other than most have soda in their pantries perhaps? I lean toward powder these days in baking...it gives thing a better rise but maybe it's just my imagination?

[DrXmus]

I can't find it online to show you, but I found a recipe for a Texas chocolate sheet cake at a Penzey's store. I've made it a couple of times and it's awesome. My question to the pros here is following.

It calls for butter and sugar to be creamed together, then boiled water is added and mixed, then the dry ingredients are mixed in. It doesn't make sense to me to cream butter and sugar then add boiling water. Doesn't this negate the creaming I just did? Other recipes I just found online mix the butter, water and cocoa powder in a saucepan until it's all liquid, then add the dry ingredients. This makes more sense to me.

Can I forego creaming and just melt and mix?

Thanks for the help!

[Anna Blume]

^no good reason. Powder reacts better with buttermilk-curious-other than most have soda in their pantries perhaps? I lean toward powder these days in baking...it gives thing a better rise but maybe it's just my imagination?

Thanks, ge, for responding. I recall some scientific explanation as to why one must use a mixture of the two leaveners w buttermilk.

[lperry]

I can't find it online to show you, but I found a recipe for a Texas chocolate sheet cake at a Penzey's store. I've made it a couple of times and it's awesome. My question to the pros here is following.

It calls for butter and sugar to be creamed together, then boiled water is added and mixed, then the dry ingredients are mixed in. It doesn't make sense to me to cream butter and sugar then add boiling water. Doesn't this negate the creaming I just did? Other recipes I just found online mix the butter, water and cocoa powder in a saucepan until it's all liquid, then add the dry ingredients. This makes more sense to me.

Can I forego creaming and just melt and mix?

Thanks for the help!

Creaming makes a difference in the structure if you do it until the sugar is dissolved (IIRC). The sponge cake/genoise method uses melted butter, but then you have to do the whole beat the eggs and sugar until the ribbon stage thing at the start of the mixing. I would not melt, just because I've done it before and had bad results. I'm not sure why it makes a difference when the fat gets melted, but it does sometimes, so it probably isn't worth the risk.

[DrXmus]

http://www.penzeys.com/cgi-bin/penzeys/recipes/r-penzeysVelmasChocolateCake.html

I found the recipe. Does this change anything regarding whether it's still necessary to cream butter and sugar, then melt it with boiling water?

[lperry]

That's a really odd cake method. It's more like a quickbread/muffin method. I think this is pretty much the classic Hershey's cocoa cake with the directions changed around a bit, but I will admit to having no idea what melting the butter will do to it. I guess it all depends on whether or not you are willing to risk it.

[Pat]

One of the main components of tonight's Valentine's dinner is an artichoke tart. When I was blind baking the crust, the recipe called for taking the pie weights out after a certain amount of time and baking a little more. When I went to pull it it of the oven to remove the pie weights, the removable bottom of the tart pan popped up. Miraculously, I caught everything (though I did get a lovely burn on my arm from the pan), but a 2 - 3 inch portion of the crust partially broke off. I was able to slide the tart and bottom onto a cookie sheet to finish its par-baking. The crust fit back together okay at first but had split again by the time it came out of the oven.

I've got a few hours before I have to fill it. There is a little bit more raw dough. I have two questions: Will patching it together with a small amount of the raw dough work? And is this sucker going to fit back in the outer rim of the tart pan? What do I do if it doesn't, in order to keep filling from spilling out when it goes back in the oven to finish baking?.

[laniloa]

Dorie Greenspan's recipe for tart dough from Baking From My Home To Yours says to keep the leftover raw dough to use to patch any splits.

[mdt]

One of the main components of tonight's Valentine's dinner is an artichoke tart. When I was blind baking the crust, the recipe called for taking the pie weights out after a certain amount of time and baking a little more. When I went to pull it it of the oven to remove the pie weights, the removable bottom of the tart pan popped up. Miraculously, I caught everything (though I did get a lovely burn on my arm from the pan), but a 2 - 3 inch portion of the crust partially broke off. I was able to slide the tart and bottom onto a cookie sheet to finish its par-baking. The crust fit back together okay at first but had split again by the time it came out of the oven.

I've got a few hours before I have to fill it. There is a little bit more raw dough. I have two questions: Will patching it together with a small amount of the raw dough work? And is this sucker going to fit back in the outer rim of the tart pan? What do I do if it doesn't, in order to keep filling from spilling out when it goes back in the oven to finish baking?.

What laniloa said. Also putting your tart pan on a baking sheet before going into the oven makes for easy and safe removal.

[Pat]

What laniloa said. Also putting your tart pan on a baking sheet before going into the oven makes for easy and safe removal.

Thank you both, and I always put it on a pan when it's filled, but I haven't had a problem with the blind baking before. I guess I've just been lucky.

[thistle]

I made crab cakes last night- backfin crab, s&p, egg, lots of chopped basil & cilantro, tsp of red curry paste. I froze half, panfried the others, & even after dousing w/ extra salt & lime, they are under seasoned. Is there any way to salvage them?

[Pat]

I made crab cakes last night- backfin crab, s&p, egg, lots of chopped basil & cilantro, tsp of red curry paste. I froze half, panfried the others, & even after dousing w/ extra salt & lime, they are under seasoned. Is there any way to salvage them?

I can't think of anything if you want to keep them intact, but you could break them up and add them to something else that you can season additionally, like pasta or rice or as stuffing for roasted peppers. When i had an excess of crabmeat a few weeks ago, as well as some poblanos I wanted to roast, I looked up recipes for crab-stuffed poblanos and found quite a few. The ones I saw, though, basically called for making a crab cake mixture to stuff them with, and I'd already made crab cakes with some of the crab and wanted to do something different.

[zoramargolis]

I made crab cakes last night- backfin crab, s&p, egg, lots of chopped basil & cilantro, tsp of red curry paste. I froze half, panfried the others, & even after dousing w/ extra salt & lime, they are under seasoned. Is there any way to salvage them?

Make a highly seasoned sauce to eat them with. Do they need to be saltier? More peppery? More savory? Add those elements to the sauce. Try making a remoulade with mayo, chives, capers, chopped pickles, cayenne. Or an aioli with chipotle, cilantro, onion and lime. Add more of your red curry paste to mayo with lemongrass and garlic.

[bookluvingbabe]

Had a little miscommunication at the market this week and ended up with beef heart instead of tongue. Any tried and true ideas for how to cook beef heart? I don't have time to cook until Tuesday.

Thanks!

[Genevieve]

Just in case anyone else faces the same quandary: 50 Things To Do With Fresh Sorrel

Thanks! I bought some at the farmers' market last week, since I remembered having a wonderful sorrel soup once, and they said to put it raw in salad or saute it. Raw on a sandwich and in a salad, it tasted like a basic leafy green, no lovely lemony taste. Maybe cooking it one of these ways will be good.

[goodeats]

Had a little miscommunication at the market this week and ended up with beef heart instead of tongue. Any tried and true ideas for how to cook beef heart? I don't have time to cook until Tuesday.

I really don't have any experience, but Michael Ruhlman had a nice recipe, as did this chef's forum. Hope this helps....

[PollyG]

Had a little miscommunication at the market this week and ended up with beef heart instead of tongue. Any tried and true ideas for how to cook beef heart? I don't have time to cook until Tuesday.

Thanks!

I think you want to find a recipe for Peruvian anticuchos. These are beef heart kabobs, marinated with cumin, among other things. They're quite delicious.

[ktmoomau]

Thanks! I bought some at the farmers' market last week, since I remembered having a wonderful sorrel soup once, and they said to put it raw in salad or saute it. Raw on a sandwich and in a salad, it tasted like a basic leafy green, no lovely lemony taste. Maybe cooking it one of these ways will be good.

Perfect timing for this quote, it's growing like mad in my garden.

[Ilaine]

Too many tomatoes! Heirlooms, not paste. What to doo.

[Ilaine]

Mason jar sightings? Actual sightings, not "there used to be a place" please?

I am looking particularly for a gallon jar for kombucha, but smaller ones, too.

[zoramargolis]

1. Share with non-gardening friends; can be made into tomato sauce albeit non-traditional.

2. McLean Hardware. Saw gallon mason jars at Target, but that was earlier in the season. Try the Container Store for large-size storage jars.

[Dave Pressley]

2. McLean Hardware. Saw gallon mason jars at Target, but that was earlier in the season. Try the Container Store for large-size storage jars.

A couple years ago, we were going to can peaches and tomatoes at the restaurant and I was nominated to go buy the mason jars. After having no luck at three hardware stores and two grocery stores over the course of two hours, I was sitting in my truck in the parking lot of the latest failed mission when I said out loud to myself, "Why can't there just be a store that just.....sold........containers? Damn it!"

[weezy]

Too many tomatoes! Heirlooms, not paste. What to doo.

If you're really hard up for time and equipment, just wash them and throw them in baggies in the freezer whole. They're a great flavor addition to soups and sauces in the winter.

[Pat]

Too many tomatoes! Heirlooms, not paste. What to doo.

Roast them and freeze or roast them and put into clean containers, cover with oil and use within a few weeks.

[Ilaine]

How long to simmer roasted bone beef broth? I have had two large slow cookers going since 7 pm and they look and smell pretty good..

Maybe it's actually stock. Not sure of the difference. Roasted beef bones, some with meat, shanks and ribs, some roasted carrots and leeks, and water.

[thistle]

Sounds yummy, will you strain it? probably not necessary...stock is like the gold stock you can keep on hand, improves anything it gets close to...& it's usually from leftover bones or meat.....

[porcupine]

ISO a recipe for a great cold creamy corn soup. Anyone?