Chef Geoff's, Geoff Tracy's Local American Chain in Several Area Locations

[CrescentFresh]

Something I once had to say about Chef Geoff's which still is the worse place/meal I've ever had in DC:

In most cases, I alert restaurant staff when I'm unhappy about something and see how it's handled and that often paves the way for a future return. But in some cases that's impractical: "Those curtains are vile. You must change them!" Or it's not even worth the bother because of a combination of things. Or the complaints are about things that are so basic that if they can't get them right without you mentioning it to them they've got serious issues. Or you just don't feel like it, because you shouldn't have to.

Today I visited Chef Geoff's Downtown for lunch, and it falls into the latter categories.

The hostess looked befuddled when I, as a party of one, requested to be seated for lunch today at nearly 1:30 p.m. Plenty of available space. For some reason though, the welcome was less than welcoming.

Music. They were blasting Bruce Springsteen. I'd expect that in a bar/tavern, or even some restaurants without tablecloths! Sometimes music in the restaurant can set a mood, particularly if it's light and in the background. Or sometimes, District Chophouse as an example with its '40s music, it's trying to set a scene. But this was none of that.

I ordered Snow Pea Fusilli: Defined on the menu as tomatoes, onions, summer sprouts, asiago, and pea coulis. The quantity of things wrong with this dish probably exceeded the quantity of ingredients. To name a few, the pasta was overdone, boiled to death. The vegetables (save for the grape tomatoes) were over done, sautéed to death. There were cucumber slices (or were they zucchini? I couldn't tell) that were just shy of wilted mush. They had only enough structural integrity left to allow me to tell that it had been a green vegetable at one time.

The dish was sauced to death with a cloying sweet and acidic vinegar mixture that overwhelmed and overpowered everything (save the grape tomatoes which had enough of its own flavorful acid to fight through this mess). The asiago cheese on this dish looked like it had come from one of those plastic containers of shredded (as opposed to grated) parmesan at the supermarket.

The closest approximation I can suggest for this dish is: Visit your local supermarket. Go to the prepared foods section. Get the plastic container of "Pasta Primavera" or something similar. Nuke it until just warm. This is a true approximation and not an exaggeration.

This is where I should have spoken up. But my server came to ask how everything was only one forkful after another server delivered it to my table. Only enough time for me to say, "I don't like it" and not explain why I don't like it, which is essential for me to send something back. So I nodded while I chewed. She didn't return again until it was clear that I had eaten all I was going to eat. I declined the coffee and dessert offer.

When it came time for the check ($19.47 including tax and an iced tea), and I left $30 so I can have proper change to leave a tip. She brought $10 back to me instead of $10.53. I would understand this (rather small) oversight if the place

was busy and she was swamped, but at this time I was the only customer there.

Your mileage may vary, but I can't think of any redeeming qualities that would make me want to return or consider another chance for them. After all, I paid $20 for that experience and boy do I feel taken. Perhaps it's because I'm spoiled knowing what a $9 chicken can taste like! The place gave me an "aura of bad feeling." I can safely say I will not return there.

[hm212]

Something I once had to say about Chef Geoff's which still is the worse place/meal I've ever had in DC:

Today I visited Chef Geoff’s Downtown for lunch, and it falls into the latter categories.

The dish was sauced to death with a cloying sweet and acidic vinegar mixture that overwhelmed and overpowered everything (save the grape tomatoes which had enough of its own flavorful acid to fight through this mess). The asiago cheese on this dish looked like it had come from one of those plastic containers of shredded (as opposed to grated) parmesan at the supermarket.

I was at the uptown version last night - It really sucked. I tried to like it, but I just didn't. I was there once before and had a great meal. Last night yuck!

I had the calamari appetizer, they used a brown sugar sauce. It really did not work. I had the pork tenderloin and also the sauce killed it. It was a combo of hot and sweet and yes overpowered a great tenderloin.

[brr]

went to the orig location once - never again - insipid, dull boring food - worst butternut squash soup ever - whatever it tasted of, it wasn't squash

as CrescentFresh said, so bad theres no point even complaining

[Kanishka]

A voice of semi-dissent: Though I've never had anything else at Chef Geoff's, the $5 burger and half price wine deal on the last Monday of the month is really quite good. The burger has two kinds of cheese and bacon, and though not the pinnacle of burgerhood, it's pretty darn tasty. And they serve nice and huge beers if you're not in the mood for wine with your burger.

But I think given comments here I'll stay away from everything else on the menu.

[TinDC]

I think the new restaurant by Chef Geoff's is going to be called Lia's.

I have to say, I have sort of "come around" to Chef Geoff's. At first, I really tried to like it because it is in the neighborhood, but I couldn't find anything on the menu that I liked.

Lately, though, I have been pleased with some of the things I have eaten. It can be hit or miss, but the $25 "Summer Sizzler" is a good deal. Soup or salad, any entree and any dessert. I have been a couple of times and have enjoyed it. Last time I was there, I had a corn truffle bisque that was pretty good. And all of the desserts I have had were quite good: peach/raspberry cobbler with butter pecan ice cream, a mint chocolate cake with choc chip mint ice cream, etc.

[vsky]

I have been to the New Mexico (or AU) loc many times as I work next door and only downtown once… I almost always get the burger (overcooked once but didn’t have time for a refire and it was still tasty) the fries are consistently crisp and I’m usually content with the salads, nothing noteworthy either way…

In a triumph of marketing in the downtown location I convinced the BF and I to a Sunday brunch (some coupon thing…).

Decided on steak and eggs, and ordered my eggs “sunny side” instead of over easy as listed, after my BF (basically) explained this…

Sunny-Side Up: The egg is never flipped. The yolk is a bright yellow hemisphere sitting in the middle of the pristine white. The yolk is liquid, and some of the white around the yolk may have a jelly-like consistency.

Over Easy: The egg is flipped briefly. The yolk does not stand out as strikingly, but is still liquid. The white is no longer liquid. Being paranoid like I am I cut first into my steak – whaddya know it was med-well/well, before touching anything else I slipped my steak onto a bread plate to send back…

After a very long time I found someone who went to find someone who got lost…

Then I found my server myself and asked for a MR steak - okay fine.

Then I went for my eggs, they were…

Over Hard: The white is firm, the yolk is a lighter color and flakey.

Oh boy, BF convinced me to flag down server and get some new eggs, so poor guy probably wanted to stay as far from the table as possible… Then I hear behind us the server and chef of some type (sous or exec?) discussing what I really wanted behind me – chef asking server what exactly I said for the eggs….

At some point I got a MR steak which was good, the runny eggs, and cold potatoes (whatever I was not making a 3rd complaint – no way…)

Anyway – that was my one time deal with the Chef Geoff’s brunch (We went to Georgia Brown’s for Valentines which was fabulous – and only made this seem more ridiculous…) we didn’t stick it to the server with bad tip (he probably worked harder on us anyway), but I hope that the fact that I had to send back my one dish in courses helps for more clarity in the future….

[giant shrimp]

we went to the new mexico restaurant twice this late spring and early summer and found the food edible but suffering from some basic problems (oversalting) suggesting that there was nobody at home in the kitchen. we did shy away from anything that sounded too complicated. the service, on the other hand, was the dopiest on earth. for our second meal we had two servers, one breaking the other in, but both were clueless. if you don't want to bother running two restaurants, why bother opening a third? this place is just sitting back and raking it in.

[cjsadler]

I have to semi-dissent here too. I've been quite a Chef Geoff's basher in the past, and certainly know the complaints everyone has, but one night last summer, I went with some friends who like to go to the N. Mexico location. Expecting a lame meal, I was instead served the best pork chop I've ever had in a restaurant, over some great cheese grits (everything else was quite good too). A strange anomaly? The presence of Geoff? Who knows? Wildly inconsistent for sure.

I also had an incredible tea smoked pork tenderloin with blueberry bbq sauce at the downtown location a couple years ago-- this was the work of Johnny Monis when he was there.

[laniloa]

I used to go to the New Mexico location on occasion because it is around the corner from home. The food really went downhill and the only thing I'd go back for was the burger special. Its been about a year since I did that though. I have a work thing at the downtown location tonight.

[Michael Landrum]

I was instead served the best pork chop I've ever had in a restaurant, over some great cheese grits (everything else was quite good too).   A strange anomaly?  The presence of Geoff?  Who knows?  

I think that no stronger proof of Don's argument exists than this. When a chef is present in his proudly eponymous restaurant, the mind reels at the greatness possible.

[Joe Riley]

While a huge number of Rockwellians were taking part in the Corduroy dinner, I was yakking it up with Randall Grahm, winemaker and president-for-life of Bonny Doon Vineyards at Chef Geoff's downtown (1301 Penn Ave NW).

Geoff Tracy served us up 10 courses and we had 10 excellent wine pairings:

Moonfish Sashimi with Wasabi Aioli and Baked Wonton Crackers, served with Bonny Doon Pacific Rim Chenin Blanc 2004

Raw bar with littlenecks, Kumomotos, Langoustines and Sambal Cocktail Sauce, served with Ca' Del Solo Malvasia Bianca '04

Wild Rockfish with Chinese Black Rice and Blood Orange Mirin Sauce, served with Il Circo Moscato d'Asti 2004

New England Lobster Roll with Mache Salad and Old Bay Potato Chips, served with Il Circo Erbaluce 2004

Speck, Bresaola and Prosciutto with Handmad eMozzarella and Ciabatta, served with Ca' Del Solo Sangiovese "Il Fiasco" 2004

Chestnut Stuffed Quail with Creamy Polenta and Crispy Pancetta, served with Bonny Doon Le Cigare Volant 2002

Pork Shank Ravioli with Swiss Chard, Pomegranates and Mushroom Demiglace, served with Il Circo Montepulciano 2003

Slow Braised Veal Cheek with Cherry Couscous and Almonds, served with Bonny Doon "Old Telegram" Mourvedre 2003

Mascarpone Cheese Cake with Pistachios, Apricots and Chestnut Honey, served with Bonny Doon Muscate Vin de Glacière 2004

Chocolate Hazelnut Soufflé cake with Raspberries and Chocolate Mendiant, served with Bonny Doon Bouteille Call Syrah Port (which has 4% Rasperries in it!)

Just getting to spend the evening chatting with Randall made this one of the great wine nights of my life. I've been to two wine dinners with him before, many years ago when I used to work wine wholesale and my company sold his wines.

Randall was my first wine-hero, the principal person responsible for my entering the wine trade. He instilled a sense of evangelical zeal deep within my soul that I've carries with me ever since. He seemed well and in fine fettle and I thoroughly enjoyed myself.

I've not dined at Chef Geoff's downtown before, and only a few times at the original location (he's opening a new one in Silver Spring very soon, too) but everything here tonight was delightful. I nary heard a discouraging word, just lots of yummy sounds from people.

Once again, I leap to the fore to defend the iconoclastic wines of Bonny Doon. Everything we drank tonight was both interesting and useful, and so much more than just pleasant wine in clever packaging. The "Euro-doon" wines were lots of fun, Le Cigare Volant was as pleasant as possible, the Bouteille Call Syrah Port was scrumptious and I'm too tired to go into greater detail tonight.

Suffice it to say that I think that these wines are interesting, these wines are compelling and they are worth your time, money and drinking dollars.

Chef Geoff's has inspired me to think about a return visit soon, perhaps when the patio opens up to the outside,

By the way, the place was packed, 130 diners. Geoff had to close the restaurant for this gig.

Edited March 2, 2006 by Joe Riley

[JPW]

(he's opening a new one in Silver Spring very soon, too)

Do tell more.

[TinDC]

I ate at Chef Geoff's on New Mexico Ave. last night. They have a GREAT patio and last night was the perfect night to enjoy it.

I have always said that the food there is hit or miss. For example, last time I went, I ordered a chicken penne and it was a miss. WAY too much onion, I mean piles of them.

But last night I had a great appetizer: wild mushroom gnocchi with fontina sauce. This consisted of sauteed wild mushrooms, gnocchi and a delicious, rich fontina sauce. The gnocchi were firm, but not at all gummy. If this is any indication of what will be served at the new Lia's, I am looking forward to it.

[LaShanta]

Greetings fellow Foodies!!

(Wow, I'm really getting the hang of this whole posting thing! It's almost addictive!!)

Anyway, I’m being dragged to Chef Geoff’s tonight for dinner before going to the National Theater. Haven’t been there before. Any suggestions on things I must have or things to stay away from?

Peace & Blessings,

LaShanta

[mdt]

Greetings fellow Foodies!!

(Wow, I'm really getting the hang of this whole posting thing! It's almost addictive!!)

You have no idea...

[cjsadler]

The $5 happy-hour burger is not bad.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

I'd start with the filet of ventworm nut (medium rare) accompanied by a bottle of the 1996 Martian pig slop from Hell. I hear they go well together.

[LaShanta]

My experience at Chef Geoff's last night was terrible. The best thing about the night was the iced tea.

OK, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but the entrees were terrible. I ordered the paella and it was swimming in saffron. WAAAYYYY too overpowering. Also, my boyfriend got the duck special, which came with a bunch of peppers and some green guacamole-type of sauce on it. The duck may have actually tasted OK if we could have actually TASTED it—if it hadn’t been overwhelmed by piles of vegetables. There was so much going on on the plate that I couldn't make head nor tails of any of it.

Highlights -- calamari/shrimp appetizer and the caramel apple cake (actually the cake was a bit dry, but the ice cream and the candied walnuts compensated).

My advice -- stick to the happy hour and don't venture into the more substantive dishes, especially not for the prices they charge.

To management's credit, they did send someone out and ask why I was not eating my entree and they ended up taking it off the bill. (I literally had 2 forkfuls.) I would have gladly ordered something else if I had the time, but the waitress did not come to check on me until everyone in my party had already finished their meals!

Also, though the happy hour menu and discounts seemed promising, it is terribly, terribly loud in there. So if you do go, be sure to bring your outside voice.

Overview -- Highly disappointed and would never recommend to anyone (even enemies).

Peace & Blessings,

LaShanta

[Jacques Gastreaux]

So, I see you took my advice.

[Barbara]

I'd consider this as taking one for the team. Many thanks.

[B.A.R.]

Chef Geoff's should be commended for being proactive about the disappointment with your entree. Granted, actually, you know, eating your dinner surely would have been preferrable, but many places would not have noticed/cared that you were unhappy with your meal.

And many more places might have noticed, and still done nothing.

[pidgey]

I live pretty near the AU location, and the only time we go to Chef Geoff's these days is in nice weather when the patio's open. Why? Because the wait is insane otherwise. An hour and a half to eat mediocre food? I don't think so.

I have to say, the burger is pretty tasty, especially for $5 during happy hours, although I would pay regular price since burgers in that neighborhood are few and far between. But do you know what the strange thing is? They don't serve the burger for Sunday brunch, which goes until 3 pm. (Actually, the time we went I think it was a Saturday, this was late last fall, so I don't know if they changed their Saturday menu, but I don't see the burger on their Sunday brunch menu now).

Haven't been there in several months now, and don't know when we'll go again....

[Audrey2025]

Visited the downtown location today, and to the food, the atmosphere, and the service, I say: Meh.

[JLK]

How's brunch at Chef Geoff's? The menu strikes me as fussy, but a friend just picked it so off I go.

[CrescentFresh]

How's brunch at Chef Geoff's? The menu strikes me as fussy, but a friend just picked it so off I go.

Never had it....but I'd be willing to bet that when you're done with it, you'll have wished you packed a cooler ahead of time and brought it with you. If you stick to bottled goods that they open in front of you, you'll probably be okay.

[JLK]

I'd put it in my Not Recommended category. The menu was the first sign o' trouble. I was put off by the first item on the men, a "strawberry cheesecake waffle" that included strawberry compote AND cream cheese sauce AND graham cracker crumbles. There was also a chocolate chip waffle option, however strangely enough, Chef Geoff's does not offer a plain old waffle.

Anyway, my friend picked it and I didn't want be bossy so I went. He tolerates my food obsessions (e.g., "grits at Colorado Kitchen NOW!") frequently enough so we met there at noon. We ate at the bar as we often do. We enjoy chatting with most bar staff, however Chef Geoff's barman today definitely fell short on charm. Whatever, on to the food.

They make a decent latte, and were good about refilling my friend's coke. That was the good part. The bad part was the food. After learning that the French toast with apple compote ($11.95 with "roasted" sausage) was not available (did they, um, run out of bread????), I ordered the biscuits and gravy with home fries ($12.95) and my friend had the Texas scramble (again, $12.95).

We both had regrets. My friend's dish must have had between six and eight eggs in addition to chorizo, black beans, salsa, sour cream and tortilla chips. It was huge and overwhelming and not very good. Frankly I was tempted to try to change his mind when he ordered. My own choice stemmed from the hope-against-hope that Chef Geoff's version might be even half as good as the same dish at Majestic Cafe; it was not. Instead of the lovely crumbly sausage offered at Majestic, Chef Geoff's version arrives with slices of sausage links that immediately made me think of the franks in franks & beans. But the real problem was the unbearable saltiness of the dish and the leaden biscuits. I could not cut one of the two without a knife. Not a good sign.

Ah well...live and learn.

[Jacques Gastreaux]

Instead of the lovely crumbly sausage offered at Majestic, Chef Geoff's version arrives with slices of sausage links that immediately made me think of the franks in franks & beans. But the real problem was the unbearable saltiness of the dish and the leaden biscuits. I could not cut one of the two without a knife. Not a good sign.

Let me see if I understand this correctly and just to be sure that there is no mistake here: The bisquits and gravy was made with sliced link sausage???? Why, I've never heard of such a thing.

[JLK]

Yes, I was disappointed too. Must have been the same "roasted" sausage advertised as a side. I'm still guzzling water from the dish's saltiness.

[Pool Boy]

I ate there once, at the downtown location, with some wino friends. It was OK, but nothing special. The service was not good or bad, but maybe a bit slow. But with wino pals, the wine bottles keep getting opened so it's hard to care at that point.

[JLK]

It's very hard to picture Chef Monis cooking at Chef Geoff's.

[Michael Landrum]

It's very hard to picture Chef Monis cooking at Chef Geoff's.

Try to picture him cooking in a tight tank-top and leather pants. It gets easier.

[Ferhat Yalcin]

After learning that the French toast with apple compote ($11.95 with "roasted" sausage) was not available (did they, um, run out of bread????),

restaurants (either very good or terrible) may run out of things anytime . this is as normal as breathing air. I dont think any restaurant holds an 18-wheeler in front of its loading dock fully loaded with bread or tomatoes.

[TinDC]

Chef Geoff has been advertising their $25 "summer sizzler". Any soup or salad, entree and dessert. Even if the food is not fabulous, it is still a good deal.

[CrescentFresh]

Even if the food is not fabulous, it is still a good deal.

I apologize for this sounding so blunt, but along that logic, so is McDonald's Dollar Menu.

[TinDC]

Yeah, I agree, but I just thought I would pass along the info. And they have a nice patio...

[pidgey]

Well, Chef Geoff has done it again. The downtown location recently unveiled a new menu, with more than 50 items on it. Included on the menu are the new "Simple Meats"...at steakhouse prices, with steakhouse accoutrements (read: no sides included). For example, you can order Ribeye Steak with Zinfandel Jus for $29.95. If you want such sides as "tempura onion rings," its an additional $5.95. Its like Chef Geoff woke up one day and said, "How can I make this location even more mediocre?"

Despite the fact that my husband really wanted a steak last night, I told him that its probably a rip off, and we both got the burger. I passed on the "chipotle mayo" that's now apparently a standard on the burger. The kitchen apparently mixed up our burgers, because I got his medium rare and he got my medium. And we were both surprised that lettuce and onion no longer appear on the burger (just tomato and pickle, and of course bacon and cheese).

In fairness, the specials seemed to be at more reasonable prices, ranging from $16.95 to $31.95 (that would be the ribeye), more in line with the old menu.

On the plus side, half price wine night is now apparently every Monday at the downtown location, and happy hour is extended all evening on Mondays and Tuesdays. But the wine list seems to be very pricey as well...only a few wines were in the $20 range, with most of the wines more in the $40-$60 range.

The new menu does not seem to affect the New Mexico location. If I go to the downtown location again, I'll sit in the bar.

[dinwiddie]

I've eaten at the downtown location a couple of times. It wasn't bad, but not at all memorable. I tried to have lunch at the New Mexico location once, but after sitting at a table for 15 minutes without even getting a menu or some water, I got up and left.

[rdg]

the $5 burgers are the only reason to visit. i'd never go in the place if it weren't for their happy hour.

[vsky]

Greek Pizza at the New Mexico Location. I've posted earlier about my mixed feelings at their other location, but this pizza was a winner last night. Goat cheese, sweet and hot peppers (banana), tomato and red onion on a thin crust. I can't describe very well why I liked it so much but I guess it was the flavor of the cheese combined with the heat of the peppers. I've always though their pizza was just okay,like the steak and gorgonzola but upon comparison I realize that's just too heavy and the flavor in the Greek is much more balanced. The only down side was that 2 of the 6 pieces had bad crust (too much) to toppings (too little) ratio (but my BF got stuck with those anyway) Just a thought if you find yourself in the neighborhood. And since I've worked next door for five years (and probably a few more) I'm happy to have my new go-to order :-)

[collije]

Yeah, have others have suggested the $5 Happy Hour burger special is about the only appealing thing there [well, besides the Happy Hour beer specials lol, they're huge!].

[DanielK]

Needing a place to have a < 1 hour meal with kids before a show at the Warner tonight, and not wanting to eat at the National Place food court, we decided to give Chef Geoff's a try.

Meh. Not terrible, but nothing special.

An appetizer of Fried Ipswitch Clams was actually quite good. Great tasting clams, and the batter was still hot and crispy when they arrived. However, it was a pretty measly portion size for $13 (filled a small martini glass) - probably half the size of the appetizer portion of the same dish at Legal Seafood a few blocks away, at roughly the same price.

The Hummus Three Ways was boring. Tasteless regular hummus that needed garlic, oil, or ANY kind of seasoning, a spicy red pepper hummus that tasted only of crushed red pepper flakes, and an olive spread that was actually pretty tasty. The pita it was served with was excellent, though, warm and just a touch toasted.

The kids had kid pasta and pizza. Both were happy, though neither looked to be anything special. I didn't try them.

I had a grilled hangar steak with chimmichurri sauce, and a side of mashed potatoes. The hanger was very tasty, and though it came rare instead of the medium-rare I ordered, that's fine with me. The chimmichurri could have used a bit more kick, but the mashed potatoes were awful. Tasteless and gummy, they needed a whole lot of salt and pepper to even get a few bites down.

My wife had the "Jumbo Shrimp and Very Gouda Grits w/Peppers and Tomatoes". The grits were great, with just enough Gouda to make you remember that it's there, without overpowering. The veggies and accompanying sauce were just sweet enough to engage with the grits and shrimp, and very plentiful. The half-dozen large shrimp, were, unfortunately, mostly devoid of taste.

Prices aren't low, so I certainly wouldn't put in a regular rotation, but if I were dragged there, I'd find something to eat. Total for 2 apps, 2 entrees, 2 kid meals, and 4 soft drinks was $90 before tax and tip. I've had far better meals for far less money, even downtown.

[jigones]

It sucks that my second posting is a negative one, but the restaurant made me do it. Here is the story. My wife and I are searching for a rehearsal dinner spot. I meet with the coordinator and went over pricing. While I was not expecting the best food in the world, the location, and private room made it very attractive. All they had to do was convince me that the food was remotely decent. However, it was terrible. I made better meals in college, so consider this place wants to be considered high scale and charges some hefty price, here it goes:

Food:

Me-hanger steak medium rare with chimichurri sauce:I am not sure if the cook was color blind, but it was burned on the outside and on the verge of mooing at me. Since the steak was already cut into slices, how can an experienced cook send it out of the kitchen this rare?!?!?! Since it was warm, I did not send it back (with the meat turnover they have, chances are I will not get too sick ) Further, I have no idea what the sauce was, but it was not "chimichurri." It actually tasted nothing like chimicurri. While I do not have the most sophisticated palette, it certainly did not taste like it contained any of the chimichurri ingredients either. Maybe I should hold a class to teach them how to make proper chimichurri sauce. I was expecting an explosion of taste, but got a bland rare chunk on meat. While I am from Argentina and a steak snob, I will never take a cooking class there....ever...or hold an event. Gets worse...

Friend- Pork Chop: It came out soooooooo raw that they waitress wanted to ensure he did not take a bite of it. It was still cold in the middle. He was so hungry that he got the Fettuccine (they also told him it was the quickest dish.) Decent, but it tasted like a lean cuisine. Now, while I think too many people expect to be comped for small items too often, if you mess up an order that bad, you have to comp it. Well, it was not. Further, he got mashed potatoes to eat with the pork and was still charged for them, but there was no pork to go with it.

Wife- Trout: It was bland and the only thing that made it remotely edible was the sauce on the side.

Service

Waitress and greeter were cordial, but to eager to push the extras (a big no-no for me.) I usually eat at least a 5 course meal with lots of alcohols and digestives, but not when you push me.

Other

Cheese selection was extremely limited.

Their alcohol pricing made no sense, GM 150 1 ounce pour as part of the GM flyer was relatively cheap.

Appetizers, gnochi were very good and so were the fried tomatoes.

These are my worthless two cents. While I am sure there are equally good experiences, they just lost a lot of my business.

[Tweaked]

Gulp...at the risk of being forever mocked and yes, perhaps, ostracized...I dined at Chef Geoff's Downtown last night...AND ENJOYED IT!

ok, first let me set the scene: it was only a quick snack after an afternoon of shopping and wandering around downtown...we sat outside on their little balcony and the weather was beautiful...there was a parade of fabulously dressed people going to some gala thing which made for fun people watching...so a lot was going in their favor!

the duck spring rolls were nice and crispy and the hoisin BBQ sauce sweet and spicy (3 for $11)

the prosciutto, manchego, asparagus brushetta was piled high and drizzled with olive oil and a reduced balsamic (1 for $8)

a couple beers rounded out a pleasant hour at Chef Geoffs.

There, I said it!

[DanielK]

I've heard Geoff Tracy is taking over the Colvin Run Tavern space - true or false? If so, he's quietly becoming one of the biggest restaurateurs in town.

Can anyone report on anything good, interesting, or culinarily worthwhile at any of his restaurants? Quite honestly, I have never heard one good thing about any of them, except the "happy hour hamburger," which isn't much of a draw for me. Still, I'm more than ready to give them another try, and would like nothing more than to write about something great. But what, and where?

Cheers,

Rocks.

I've been, once each, to 3 of his places (downtown, NM Ave, Lia's), and couldn't recommend anything I ate to anyone. Mediocre food at best, at a higher-than-expected price point.

[Adam23]

I've been, once each, to 3 of his places (downtown, NM Ave, Lia's), and couldn't recommend anything I ate to anyone. Mediocre food at best, at a higher-than-expected price point.

I concur. His places are ok and I always somehow end up at them with a group of people looking for a "cheap" place that isn't Clydes or TGI Fridays. And then I leave with a bigger bill than I hoped and mediocre food. His burger is decent though and the price is right for happy hour.

[Pool Boy]

I've been, once each, to 3 of his places (downtown, NM Ave, Lia's), and couldn't recommend anything I ate to anyone. Mediocre food at best, at a higher-than-expected price point.

I've been to one of his locations twice I think with some wine buddies, most recently probably 3 years or so ago. 'Meh' is what I say. Not bad stuff, just not memorable by any stretch of the imagination.

[qwertyy]

The happy hour burger is indeed a steal, but the downtown Chef Geoff's has become such a nightmare if you arrive any time after 4pm that we've stricken it from our list.

It remains, however, boss's favorite destination for special occasion lunches, which is good for the sole reason that it's not Aria. Whenever we go, it seems that the rest of the table enjoys their meals, and I get the stinker. (Or maybe my colleagues just have bad taste and they're all bad dishes, but I'm trying to think positive.)

Last time, I got the BBQ pulled chicken sandwich with sweet potato fries. The rest of the table's food was well-portioned and attractive; mine arrived last and was such a behemoth car wreck that a few of my companions actually whispered "jeez." (Exactly what you want for a business lunch, right?) The eight-inch sub roll was overflowing with bad-quality chicken, doused in sickly sour-sweet sauce and topped with a massive heap of frizzled onions. How exactly does one eat that when not at a picnic table covered in newspaper? Well, first embarrassingly, and then with a fork. But it was unsatisfying enough that I gave up after a short while and just ate the limp, tasteless fries.

Two desserts were unmemorable but for the hint of freezer-burn they left on the palate.

I'm just going to get a salad next time.

[stockwatch_1999]

Anyone been to the Tyson's location yet?

[Ericandblueboy]

Anyone been to the Tyson's location yet?

Menu reads like upscale Cheesecake Factory (lots of choices and all over the map)...we got a coupon for the Tysons branch, probably will use it and see what Chef Geoff is all about. It's been awhile since I've been to Hermes (still can't afford anything in there though).

[Anonymouze]

Anyone been to the Tyson's location yet?

We went to the Tyson's location yesterday and opted for the valet parking (2.00 added to your ck at the end of the meal...) we waited about 5 to 10 minutes for a table after a bit I mentioned that we can do a half booth I just need the short chairs for my comfort, if we wanted the "high chairs" we could have sat right away. We were greeted cordially by what I may assume is the General Manager and the two ladies in charge of seating. We waited by the bar and 2 bar staff offered us assistance which we declined but accepted menus to browse while waiting... finally we were seated.

We shared 3 appetizers since we couldn't make up our minds. The Truffle Parmesan popcorn (yes, it was popcorn!) it actually tasted very nice. Mini duck corn dogs (yummy and sort of hot-dog-type but a bit hard to eat on a stick) with a purple mustard (The mustard is VERY spicy - think chinese mustard or horseradish bumped up) it cleared my sinuses in mere seconds... and lastly the trio of hummus with pita and olives. The hummus with red peppers was very nicely made the rest were standard fare.

Next we ordered our main courses.

Hubby got the super tuscan burger ordered it medium well it came out medium rare. I got the chicken with goat cheese, red peppers and bacon with a side of sweet potato fries. Mine tasted pretty good but I could not tell if the chicken was a tiny bit "pink" or if it was the red peppers... I hoped for the best since it did look cooked to both of us.

(yes, I got a bit ill in the wee hours but maybe the chicken WAS pink or maybe I wasn't used to all the rich food after dieting all week.)

For dessert we shared since we couldn't make up our minds. We had their "in house home-made" well... according to our waiter/server Michael.. ice cream/sorbet trio - hubby got the blueberry sorbet, vanilla bean and also toasted almond ice creams and I opted for their lava cake with chocolate ice cream on the side of it. We shared it all and we both felt the ice creams were on par with Haagen Daz or better.

They had bread with a pomegranate/red pepper spread that kept getting refilled. The service was very good and they kept my glass full which to me is always a plus, especially on a 90 degree day!

I got my doggy bag from what was left of our meals and added some of the bread that was left to it and we trotted out the door on our merry way.

We would definitely go here again!* There were really no major faux pas or negatives with the tiny exception of being a bit pricy... the location is lovely and easy to get to from Route 7 in the Tyson's corner area.

(*and if I order chicken next time, I may re-check it in case it was the chicken that upset my tummy)

[DonRocks]

It was Sunday night football last night at the Tysons Corner Chef Geoff's, with $3 domestic pints, wings, sliders, and duck corn dogs. Valet parking is $2.

This bar has a very different feel from when it was Colvin Run Tavern - the bartender wore a bright-orange mesh football jersey, and so did one of the patrons. There are definitely some regulars that come in, some of whom are in the restaurant industry.

I started with a pint of Bell's Amber Ale (a remarkable $3.00), and was tempted by the "Pizza Pies" portion of their menu, which says "we make our mozzarella fresh by hand daily." So to keep it simple, I ordered a Straight Up ($10.95) with Mozzarella, tomato sauce, basil, and EVOO (essentially a Margherita). This was a pretty good pizza, with the only mild weakness being the crust, and for the price, it's worth the money.

Moving on to my entree, I was going to order either the sliders or the duck corn dogs, but was talked into the regular old Chef Geoff Burger because both the bartender and a regular customer told me it was worth the upcharge (I didn't see anything about $5.95 Sunday-night burgers on the menu, but that's what they told me it cost). Well, it was a perfectly fine burger, ordered and cooked medium, topped with cheddar and bacon, and served with an ever-important ramekin of green chile "aioli" which is what really sets it apart (the ramekin of ketchup sat untouched). I ordered the housemade Old Bay potato chips instead of fries, and was unimpressed. A pint of Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA was, again, a remarkable $3.00.

When I got the check, the burger showed up as $10.95, but the second beer was absent. I mentioned both mistakes to the bartender (although I'm still not convinced the burger is discounted on Sunday nights), and he said he'd fix it, but then he got really slammed, and I just decided to leave it as is (it was only two dollars, and I was in a hurry at that point).

The service and atmosphere were friendly and sports-bar-like, and both the pizza and the burger were good renditions of pub food, and good values for the money - doubly so because of the terrific beer specials.

I had a very pleasant bar meal at Chef Geoff's last night - dare I test the kitchen a bit more next time?

Cheers,

Rocks.

[dcs]

I had a very pleasant bar meal at Chef Geoff's last night - dare I test the kitchen a bit more next time?

I was a tad dissapointed in the Roasted Garlic and Wild Mushroom Soup I had at Chef Geoff's Downtown two weeks ago for lunch. It was not bad, per se, but it was all roasted garlic and no wild mushroom in taste. It might benefit from a slight change in proportions better to balance the flavors.

[DrXmus]

I like Chef Geoff's in Tysons Corner but it's not a place I'll frequent. It's crazy loud during the week due to the huge bar and the happy-hour 20-something crowd suit-and-tie crowd. Last time I was there in August or so, there was a verbal battle between a happy hour reveler and management. Nice. It becomes a little more pleasant after about 7:30-8, if I remember correctly. They have an extensive and impressive beer selection. The prices are reasonable for the area and for the quality of food. I like that the menu is seasonal, but c'mon Geoff, leave the house-made tater tots on the menu year-round. Those things are fantastic!!! They looked like what you remember from your youth, but they tasted like potato, were crunchy and were served with a delicious aioli that I could've eaten with a spoon. My last meal there was a roasted chicken that was perfectly cooked. No complaints there:-)

Honestly, the noise deters me the most. It makes the meal totally unpleasant for me to have to raise my (quiet) voice to converse with my table mates and have ask them to repeat themselves.

[dcs]

Did anyone else get a Ten for Ten coupon in the mail for $10 off in celebration of 10 years in business? I have never given them my postal address, so I can only imagine they sent one to every house residence in the metro area. It is also available on their website.

Edited June 9, 2010 by dcs

[goodeats]

Did anyone else get a Ten for Ten coupon in the mail for $10 off in celebration of 10 years in business? I have never given them my postal address, so I can only imagine they sent one to every house in the metro area. It is also available on their website.

I think every household. I live in an apt. complex, never visited Chef Geoff's and still got one.

[Ericandblueboy]

Lobster Roll

chilled maine lobster, sauce louis, scallion, dill chips 19.95

Sonoran Fish Tacos

cabbage slaw, roasted corn salsa, crispy plantains 15.95

Which sounds more appetizing? I have to do a business lunch here and would like to try one of these as an appetizer.

[monavano]

Which sounds more appetizing? I have to do a business lunch here and would like to try one of these as an appetizer.

In my "girlie girl" opinion, I'd pick the one that's less messy in terms of eating at a business meeting

[Marty L.]

Which sounds more appetizing? I have to do a business lunch here and would like to try one of these as an appetizer.

Honestly, I can think of few things less appetizing than spending $20 at Chef Geoff's for a lobster roll -- unless it's spending $16 for an appetizer of fish tacos there. I've never had anything good there -- and those prices are ridiculous. (In fairness, I learned my lesson and haven't been there in at least two years, so i't always possible things have changed.) My advice would be to lower your expectations (i.e., don't come in with any -- then the best case scenario would be a pleasant surprise), or to pick a different spot for your lunch.

[DanielK]

I'm with Marty. Order a hamburger and pray for the best.

[youngfood]

I'm with Marty. Order a hamburger and pray for the best.

Agreed, though I think the burger is actually above average and rather enjoyable along with their thin, crispy fries, especially during happy hour when it is half-priced. That said, I would probably try to move the lunch.

[Ericandblueboy]

Honestly, I can think of few things less appetizing than spending $20 at Chef Geoff's for a lobster roll -- unless it's spending $16 for an appetizer of fish tacos there.

To be fair, those aren't actually appetizers. I would order them as appetizer because I'm interested in trying them and there's nothing listed as appetizers that seems appetizing to me. I was thinking about getting some linguine with clam and shrimp as my entree. No - I'm not paying for the meal so I don't mind the cost. And I'm in Tysons so the pickings are slim to none.

[Marty L.]

I'm in Tysons so the pickings are slim to none.

How about Shamshiry, just five minutes away? Or Woo Lae Oak (which I've heard is designed for just such business lunches)?

[Ericandblueboy]

I ended up ordering both the fish tacos and the lobster roll. Both were edible but nothing exciting. The fish tacos were fish sticks topped with some cabbage in a very thick tortilla. Not much flavor. The lobster roll was meaty but didn't taste as fresh as the one I had at Passionfish. I also like the sauce better at Passionfish.

[wristband]

I have to endorse the above comments as reflective of our experience today. Salmon tartare had no taste, mostly onion and a too large chop tossed with mayo and capers with no seasoning. Flavors had no time to macerate and the chunks were too large for a tartare - fried chips were nondescript. Flat iron steak was perfectly fine (not distinctive) but the server kindly warned us anything ordering anything other than medium rare would be a tough chew.

Accompanying fries were limpid and nondescript. The salmon entree was a large serving but totally average on a plate dominated by sliced new potatoes, a less-than single spear of asparagus and a single quartered baby beet the size of thimble. The much-touted olive oil chocolate cake was a disaster and the figs/dates were a gummy sweet mess. Coffee was pretty good.

The menu is extensive, not but not that imaginative, and quite pricey. I think one can do far better in Tysons. BTW, the parking situation is an annoyance. Either valet park for $2 + tip or dodge endless "reserved and restricted" signs in the lot and the garage - you pass countless rows of endless empty spaces with such dispiriting signs - until you are ready to give up and head to McDonalds. Chef Geoff should impress on the landlord the parking situation needs to be made far more hospitable and less frustrating to patrons.

[kirite]

I have to endorse the above comments as reflective of our experience today. Salmon tartare had no taste, mostly onion and a too large chop tossed with mayo and capers with no seasoning. Flavors had no time to macerate and the chunks were too large for a tartare - fried chips were nondescript. Flat iron steak was perfectly fine (not distinctive) but the server kindly warned us anything ordering anything other than medium rare would be a tough chew.

Accompanying fries were limpid and nondescript. The salmon entree was a large serving but totally average on a plate dominated by sliced new potatoes, a less-than single spear of asparagus and a single quartered baby beet the size of thimble. The much-touted olive oil chocolate cake was a disaster and the figs/dates were a gummy sweet mess. Coffee was pretty good.

The menu is extensive, not but not that imaginative, and quite pricey. I think one can do far better in Tysons. BTW, the parking situation is an annoyance. Either valet park for $2 + tip or dodge endless "reserved and restricted" signs in the lot and the garage - you pass countless rows of endless empty spaces with such dispiriting signs - until you are ready to give up and head to McDonalds. Chef Geoff should impress on the landlord the parking situation needs to be made far more hospitable and less frustrating to patrons.

We also had a disappointing exprerience at Chef Geoff for lunch last week. Very mediocre food despite the huge menu. You mentioned in your post that one could do better in Tysons Corner. Do you have any recs?

[pltrgyst]

Impressions from Chef Geoff's Tyson's on 4/15:

The mussels and Korean chicken were excellent, flavorful and correctly cooked.

The pork chops were quite good, but were not cooked medium rare, as the server

suggested -- they were served medium, slightly pink in the center, as one would

expect for pork.

The kitchen needs to learn how to cook ribs. My "Kansas City" ribs were

definitely not Kansas City cut. Worse, they were undercooked, tough and rubbery. I

stopped eating after three bites from various locations in the half-rack. Only

the dessert donuts saved the day (evening).

Also, IMO, the wine list is overpriced for the level of the menu. Downtown's

wine list is both better priced and far, far more interesting. The Tyson's wine

list looks like they acquired a defunct restaurant's stock and have not added to

it.

The beer list does not provide enough information about the styles of the draft

offerings, and the bartenders don't recognize the term "Calvados," despite a

Busnel (spelled "Bushnell") printed on the Cognac/Brandy list.

The place has a really nice decor, and is mobbed for happy hour, but the table

service was inattentive, despite the dining room being only half full -- we were

unable to order a bottle of wine until after the appetizers had been finished.

Overall, despite the much better wine list downtown, we're unlikely to be

tempted to try the downtown location or Lia's.

[jandres374]

Looks like another location coming to the former Againn space in Rockville.

"Former Againn Tavern Tentatively Turning Into a Chef Geoff's" by Carole Sugarman on bethesdamagazine.com

[DonRocks]

We ate at Lia's several years ago and were unimpressed with the food - sounded good, looked good, but was just sort of tasteless. Now I hear that Cesare Lanfranconi is the executive chef which leads me to wonder whether the food has improved. Has anyone tried Lia's recently?

I haven't tried Lia's recently (was closed the other week when I went, resulting in Chadwicks), but had dinner the other evening at the Tysons Corner Chef Geoff's which features "pasta made fresh daily at Lia's." I really, really wanted to like it, but a $17.95 ($16.95 on the check) Spaghetti and Meatballs dish (with ricotta and basil) was just a big bowl of overcooked spaghetti which may as well have been dried. The sauce and (three large) meatballs were nondescript, and portion size aside, this dish could have come from a cafeteria. The strong points here were the atmosphere (the old Colvin Run Tavern really is a nice space), $2.00 valet parking, and the service (the friendly bartender shook my hand and asked (and remembered) my first name). Yet, just 24 hours before, I spent $2-3 LESS and had the fresh Saffron Pici with Maryland Blue Crab meat, lemon, chives, and bottarga at Palena. Forgive me, Frank, for I have strayed.

[wristband]

Oh Gosh, Don I couldn't agree more, please forgive me. I went with a friend after voicing reservations and boy did i feel like gloating at the end of meal.

The best thing I can say is my friend agreed and we can say, "been there, did that, next...."

Frank, forgive me too b/c Palena is a completely different league then this.

[MMM]

But here's what I'm wondering. If Cesare Lanfranconi is actually the chef at Lia's now, the food should be really good. No?

[ktmoomau]

I was at the Chef Geoff's in Tysons for brunch a few months back, and just this past weekend was at the NW location for graduation Brunner (brunch-dinner graduation was pretty much an all day thing). I will say, while this is not super creative, delicate or artistic food, it is a good place to go with a group of varied tastes, for a decent meal.

I was happy at brunch that I could get an egg white omelette with very healthy ingredients. Hubby got a burger, which they always have very solid burgers. Other friends were happy, there is free valet parking, and was convenient for all our locations. In the Tyson's area it is a pretty good brunch choice.

At NW for brunner we had ham biscuits and chips with tzatziki sauce for starters. The ham biscuits are little biscuits with the ham incorporated in them, with a pepper jelly, I think traditional ham biscuits have better ham flavor, and the jelly was a bit sweet. The chips and tzatziki were fine, just as stated. Nothing special, but not bad.

I had the catfish tacos for my entree and actually really liked these. The catfish was lightly battered, fried well. I liked the tangy slaw with it. It was a huge portion, of course it was our only meal of the day so I polished them off. The plantain chips were nice and crispy, well seasoned. I wasn't crazy about their guacamole, but it wasn't bad, just a little bland.

I also had their gluten free pineapple upside down cake which was really good especially for being gluten free. And it was so nice to see a gluten free dessert on the menu. I thought they were pretty thoughtful as to special dietary needs on the menu. That's something that even if I am not currently abiding, I really notice nowdays.

No, it's no Palena, but it wasn't bad and was conveniently located, with stuff that could accommodate a variety of tastes.

[Tweaked]

The lamb kofti on the Downtown location lunch menu is solid.

However, I find that the snacky bar food on the happy hour menu (not talking about the burger or pizza offerings) to be lame. I look at the list and nothing ever seems appealing...dude it's happy hour, keep it simple. And the beer list is weak...usually just order a Murphy's.

[genericeric]

I was at the Chef Geoff's in Tysons for brunch a few months back, and just this past weekend was at the NW location for graduation Brunner (brunch-dinner graduation was pretty much an all day thing). I will say, while this is not super creative, delicate or artistic food, it is a good place to go with a group of varied tastes, for a decent meal.

I would agree about accommodating differing tastes, but my brunch a few weeks back at the Arizona Ave location was an expensive disappointment. The eggs in my eggs benedict were far overcooked, along with the canadian bacon, leaving the whole dish to be pretty dry. I'm far from a gourmet chef but it seems to take quite a bit of mess up eggs benedict. My S.O. had the shrimp and grits which would have been much better had it not been surrounded by a thick moat of what tasted like pure butter. Lax service and tables WAY too tightly crammed together and we were ready to bail.

I'm actually glad to hear others have had better experiences - this is an uber convenient location for us to have brunch on Sundays, maybe we just caught an off day (a really, really off day).

[levjn]

Speaking of accommodating various "dietary" needs...Food aside, I want to give Chef Geoff's props for something I found particularly cool... when I was pregnant last year - Chef Geoff's was a great spot for "mocktails"... they have quite a few made with fresh ingredients listed on their drink menu... made it a little easier to "happy hour" when I couldn't imbibe as usual! I found this section of their "drink menu" pretty thoughtful... I was only off the sauce for 9 months, but I'm sure others who either don't drink or perhaps aren't drinking while out for one reason or another also appreciate the gesture! Of course, many bartenders at our better restaurants that serve "craft cocktails" were always more than helpful in crafting something creative and non-alcoholic - i.e. Palena, Eventide, etc. They even seemed to have fun doing so! But there were a lot of spots we went that I'd either have the non-alcoholic beers or just "juice"... kind of boring - especially for someone who isn't a big "sweets" person. Interestingly enough, we were at a birthday party last summer and La Tasca served non-alcoholic sangria... very exciting to me at the time! Oh - and if you're ever looking for a non-alcoholic beer that's "better" than the others (still not as good as say some of the not so great "real beers")... my NA taste tests yielded "Buckler" n/a King of the non-alcoholic beers! Incidentally - the restaurants that served Buckler as their NA beer tended to have the better beer menus and better food... clearly - someone was actually trying the stuff they were buying before offering it to the public! ha ha! Oh - and the loser of the NA group - Kaliber - which is a "Guiness product"... too malty and sooo disappointing... So, now you know... you're welcome!

[ktmoomau]

Oh and I give Chef Geoff major credit for hiring someone to waive a sign near the speed camera on Foxhall (temporarily removed now due to construction). That was pretty great.

[ktmoomau]

I would agree about accommodating differing tastes, but my brunch a few weeks back at the Arizona Ave location was an expensive disappointment. The eggs in my eggs benedict were far overcooked, along with the canadian bacon, leaving the whole dish to be pretty dry. I'm far from a gourmet chef but it seems to take quite a bit of mess up eggs benedict. My S.O. had the shrimp and grits which would have been much better had it not been surrounded by a thick moat of what tasted like pure butter. Lax service and tables WAY too tightly crammed together and we were ready to bail.

I'm actually glad to hear others have had better experiences - this is an uber convenient location for us to have brunch on Sundays, maybe we just caught an off day (a really, really off day).

Our brunch was in Tysons, don't know how much difference there is between the locations, but just thought I would note that.

[genericeric]

The risk in being featured in an article like this is that it becomes difficult to give a restaurant a pass. While I'm a frequent visitor at the downtown location for a pretty good happy hour, last weekend was my first visit to the CG's Tysons outpost, and my first dinner at any of his restaurants since I read the article in the August Washingtonian.

So with the piece as context, I couldn't help but think, this burger is SUPPOSED to be this under seasoned - its recipe is one of the metrics. And this seafood pasta fra diavolo is SUPPOSED to taste of too-old seafood in a sauce that had none of the advertized spice. And these fish tacos are SUPPOSED to taste of too-old oil in a soggy 'tempura' crust. And we were SUPPOSED to have three billing errors out of four drink orders at the bar while waiting for our table, which wasn't ready until almost 30 minutes after our reservation.

To be fair - I did have a very good sashimi appetizer with Tuna, wasabi sauce and sesame crackers.

I normally would have chalked this up to a tired kitchen during the holiday season... a chef running back and forth between two cities still trying to find the balance... I wasn't exactly expecting gourmet when walking into Chef Geoff's, but was hoping for exactly what was advertized in the article - inoffensive food that would hopefully satisfy the tastes of a few unfamiliar dining companions. In this instance, Tracy's goal that we not remember our meal two hours later (seriously?) failed, and I'm guessing this wasn't the type of memory he was hoping for.

[DonRocks]

The risk in being featured in an article like this is that it becomes difficult to give a restaurant a pass. While I'm a frequent visitor at the downtown location for a pretty good happy hour, last weekend was my first visit to the CG's Tysons outpost, and my first dinner at any of his restaurants since I read the article in the August Washingtonian.

So with the piece as context, I couldn't help but think, this burger is SUPPOSED to be this under seasoned - its recipe is one of the metrics. And this seafood pasta fra diavolo is SUPPOSED to taste of too-old seafood in a sauce that had none of the advertized spice. And these fish tacos are SUPPOSED to taste of too-old oil in a soggy 'tempura' crust. And we were SUPPOSED to have three billing errors out of four drink orders at the bar while waiting for our table, which wasn't ready until almost 30 minutes after our reservation.

To be fair - I did have a very good sashimi appetizer with Tuna, wasabi sauce and sesame crackers.

I normally would have chalked this up to a tired kitchen during the holiday season... a chef running back and forth between two cities still trying to find the balance... I wasn't exactly expecting gourmet when walking into Chef Geoff's, but was hoping for exactly what was advertized in the article - inoffensive food that would hopefully satisfy the tastes of a few unfamiliar dining companions. In this instance, Tracy's goal that we not remember our meal two hours later (seriously?) failed, and I'm guessing this wasn't the type of memory he was hoping for.

I just skimmed through the posts in this thread, and don't think Chef Geoff's has gotten a free pass here at all - by my count (eliminating posts which were completely neutral such as questions, "maybe try the $5 happy hour burger," redundant points made by the same poster, etc.) I counted 13 posts tilting positive, and 30 posts tilting negative. My own first post in this thread was one that tilted positive, by the way.

I then began reading that article, got to the bottom of the page, and said to myself, "My God, is this *really* going to be five pages long?" then skimmed pages 2-5 in about 45 seconds. Dissecting mediocrity is not my idea of a fun read, despite the "celebrity" aspect involved.

Mediocrity fosters mediocrity in this society, and it is not something that interests or inspires me in the least. I am quite certain that restaurants which attract the masses produce the most successful business models (by definition, they will attract more revenue); from a culinary standpoint, they tend to have very little merit. There is a reason that donrockwell.com is not as large as Yelp, and also a reason why certain PR-driven chefs with successful restaurants serving the masses do not participate here - as a group, our members tend not to get very excited about run-of-the-mill "eating" - a cow can eat; it takes something more than a cow to become discerning, and money has almost nothing to do with it so let's not go down that fallacious route.

[mtureck]

I am quite certain that restaurants which attract the masses produce the most successful business models (by definition, they will attract more revenue); from a culinary standpoint, they tend to have very little merit.

What defines merit?

I've always enjoyed the various Chef Geoff restaurants. Yes, the food is predictable, and lacking in ambition. It also happens to be pretty good, it's reasonably priced, family friendly, and has some of the best, most consistent service in the area.

Masses don't go to successful restaurants because they're stupid, ill-informed, or lacking in sophistication. They go because they expect to have an enjoyable meal, pure and simple.

To me, there's a great deal of merit in a place where I know exactly the kind of experience I'm going to have before I even go in, especially since with a young kid, I don't dine out very often any more.

Certainly it's a different kind of merit that many of us look for in a restaurant, but it's a merit nonetheless.

[Ericandblueboy]

from a culinary standpoint, they tend to have very little merit.

What defines merit?

I've always enjoyed the various Chef Geoff restaurants. Yes, the food is predictable, and lacking in ambition. It also happens to be pretty good, it's reasonably priced, family friendly, and has some of the best, most consistent service in the area.

Masses don't go to successful restaurants because they're stupid, ill-informed, or lacking in sophistication. They go because they expect to have an enjoyable meal, pure and simple.

Whatever is meritorious about Chef Geoff's, it's not culinary achievement. Of course that doesn't mean people can't eat there for other reasons. I happen to think it's not very good and for that reason, overpriced. (BTW, masses are by definition unsophisticated, no?)

[Pat]

I just skimmed through the posts in this thread, and don't think Chef Geoff's has gotten a free pass here at all - by my count (eliminating posts which were completely neutral such as questions, "maybe try the $5 happy hour burger," redundant points made by the same poster, etc.) I counted 13 posts tilting positive, and 30 posts tilting negative. My own first post in this thread was one that tilted positive, by the way.

I thought genericeric was speaking of himself, that he couldn't give it a pass, given the documented formula they have.

[DonRocks]

What defines merit?

I've always enjoyed the various Chef Geoff restaurants. Yes, the food is predictable, and lacking in ambition. It also happens to be pretty good, it's reasonably priced, family friendly, and has some of the best, most consistent service in the area.

Masses don't go to successful restaurants because they're stupid, ill-informed, or lacking in sophistication. They go because they expect to have an enjoyable meal, pure and simple.

To me, there's a great deal of merit in a place where I know exactly the kind of experience I'm going to have before I even go in, especially since with a young kid, I don't dine out very often any more.

Certainly it's a different kind of merit that many of us look for in a restaurant, but it's a merit nonetheless.

I agree with much of what you say here, mtureck.

If this were a restaurant-operators website, focusing on the business side of things, then perhaps I would say that Chef Geoff's has an enormous amount of merit. But, as Simon once said on American Idol, when he was feeling especially prickish: "This is a *singing* competition!" and then proceeded to trash a singer (and I think it was that guy Taylor Hicks). Since this is primarily a dining website, in search of artistry, I can't say that Chef Geoff's has culinary merit. Nevertheless, what you say makes good sense to me except this one phrase:

"Masses don't go to successful restaurants because they're stupid, ill-informed, or lacking in sophistication. They go because they expect to have an enjoyable meal, pure and simple."

This is not always true. Sometimes they really *are* stupid, ill-informed, and lacking in sophistication. That said, I recently mentioned (in the Cactus Cantina thread) that I used to go there often when Matt was an infant - for precisely the reasons you described. They always had a high chair ready to go, it was noisy, and nobody would notice if one of us needed to whisk him outside on a moment's notice if he got cranky. Yes, there is merit to that.

So as much as I'd like to disagree with what you have to say; instead, I'll say "thank you" for offering up a legitimate, opposing point of view.

[genericeric]

I thought genericeric was speaking of himself, that he couldn't give it a pass, given the documented formula they have.

That is correct, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify. I just meant that I otherwise may have said to myself, there are a lot of changes with Geoff Tracy right now and this chain of restaurants, and excused the numerous flaws based on that information. The article referenced made it difficult to believe that was the case.

[jayandstacey]

...

Nevertheless, what you say makes good sense to me except this one phrase:

"Masses don't go to successful restaurants because they're stupid, ill-informed, or lacking in sophistication. They go because they expect to have an enjoyable meal, pure and simple."

This is not always true. Sometimes they really *are* stupid, ill-informed, and lacking in sophistication.

I don't believe your positions are mutually exclusive.

I agree with mtureck that the masses choose based on expectations, which I've described as "predictability" in other threads. They might ALSO be stupid, ill-informed, unsophisticed...but I'd bet that the vast majority of the time they are choosing a place because it has a high % chance of meeting that expectation...one of an enjoyable meal. For example, they don't want greatness if there's a risk they'll feel inadequately dressed or if the restaurant is small and sometimes slow. They aren't looking for anything outside the biggest part of the bell curve, the part where they don't have to think about anything in the restaurant transaction and can instead focus on their conversation, getting full and leaving with no expectations violated.

In contrast, most on this site choose restaurants based on hopes - hopes that the food is great, hopes to find a diamond in the rough, hopes to experience a new dining high. It isn't precisely the opposite of seeking predictability, but it is close. As an example of not being the opposite - your own example of Cactus Cantina - when you have a child of a certain age and wish to dine out, you'll seek places based more on expecations being met (ie, you want a loud place that has a trained staff and plenty of high chairs) and you may have sacrificed the "hopes" side of the equation - but it certainly doesn't make you stupid, ill-informed or lacking in any sophistication. That day, you just had different needs when going to a restaurant; you weren't chasing any hopes.

[mtureck]

I don't believe your positions are mutually exclusive.

I agree with mtureck that the masses choose based on expectations, which I've described as "predictability" in other threads. They might ALSO be stupid, ill-informed, unsophisticed...but I'd bet that the vast majority of the time they are choosing a place because it has a high % chance of meeting that expectation...one of an enjoyable meal. For example, they don't want greatness if there's a risk they'll feel inadequately dressed or if the restaurant is small and sometimes slow. They aren't looking for anything outside the biggest part of the bell curve, the part where they don't have to think about anything in the restaurant transaction and can instead focus on their conversation, getting full and leaving with no expectations violated.

In contrast, most on this site choose restaurants based on hopes - hopes that the food is great, hopes to find a diamond in the rough, hopes to experience a new dining high. It isn't precisely the opposite of seeking predictability, but it is close. As an example of not being the opposite - your own example of Cactus Cantina - when you have a child of a certain age and wish to dine out, you'll seek places based more on expecations being met (ie, you want a loud place that has a trained staff and plenty of high chairs) and you may have sacrificed the "hopes" side of the equation - but it certainly doesn't make you stupid, ill-informed or lacking in any sophistication. That day, you just had different needs when going to a restaurant; you weren't chasing any hopes.

Thanks jayandstacey...I have a feeling Don and I could have gone back and forth for pages and not come up with anything half as good as this.

[jayandstacey]

Thanks jayandstacey...I have a feeling Don and I could have gone back and forth for pages and not come up with anything half as good as this.

Well don't let me stop you!

I kind of get the "expectations" mentality. Years ago I went to a pho place and the experience was awful - there was no heat in Feb, so we wore coats and had an oscillating heater blowing on us. There was a bucket of dirty water sitting near our table. There was a really bright spotlight shining from the bar toward our table - the kind of meal you get at a place that closes the next week. That doesn't happen at Chili's/TGI Friday's/Cheesecake Factory/etc. We take the risk for occasional weirdness/unpleasantness but consider the reward worth that risk. The masses don't. In fact, I've found that in a non-foodie group, the best suggestion is usually the one that everyone recogizes, has a wide menu of standards, has a low price point, etc...bascially, the least common demoninator is rewarded with the "best choice" attaboy.

Side notes:

- It seems such places focus on prices and physical comfort. If they ever actually talk about the food quality, they use the word succulent. I've always kind of thought about opening such a place and calling it "Succulent's." The staff would wear flair and the music would test well in controlled studies. I'd get some viral benefit by people calling my place "sucks" for short and, well, just having to go there.

- I've never been to Chef Geoff's. I've read mixed reviews.

[mtureck]

Well don't let me stop you!

I kind of get the "expectations" mentality. Years ago I went to a pho place and the experience was awful - there was no heat in Feb, so we wore coats and had an oscillating heater blowing on us. There was a bucket of dirty water sitting near our table. There was a really bright spotlight shining from the bar toward our table - the kind of meal you get at a place that closes the next week. That doesn't happen at Chili's/TGI Friday's/Cheesecake Factory/etc. We take the risk for occasional weirdness/unpleasantness but consider the reward worth that risk. The masses don't. In fact, I've found that in a non-foodie group, the best suggestion is usually the one that everyone recogizes, has a wide menu of standards, has a low price point, etc...bascially, the least common demoninator is rewarded with the "best choice" attaboy.

Side notes:

- It seems such places focus on prices and physical comfort. If they ever actually talk about the food quality, they use the word succulent. I've always kind of thought about opening such a place and calling it "Succulent's." The staff would wear flair and the music would test well in controlled studies. I'd get some viral benefit by people calling my place "sucks" for short and, well, just having to go there.

- I've never been to Chef Geoff's. I've read mixed reviews.

Yes, the risk/reward idea is accurate...and to push this back on topic, look at Chef Geoff's Rockville Menu.

Lots of variety, lots of choices, lots of influences. It's almost seems set up to be a upscale version of Cheesecake Factory et.al. It's a place you can go to no matter what you're in the mood for. And while I'll probably never have a transcendent meal there, I've also never left disappointed.

[darkstar965]

Have been following this thread but wasn't motivated to offer a view until now.

The (Very) Brief Version

Indeed, different strokes for different folks are what keep things interesting and businesses afloat. For any business, knowing what you are and who your customers are are keys to success. The Chef Geoff's customer is different from the Fiola or Joe's Noodle customer. They all succeed because they're delivering what their customers want at prices that ensure at least minimum (sometimes much more) profitability. All fair. All good.

The Long Version

I think there is merit to all the points raised upthread. But, found my head spinning a bit with the definitions. Expectations can relate to anything, very much including food quality. Dish and food quality are what drive me; what I expect at prices high and low. Hope sounds like the driver of someone who's uninformed and perhaps naive. Those with expectations aren't necessarily looking for predictable, ordinary and generic food. And, hope as defined above makes me envision clueless dreamers ready to waste wads of cash.

A different way to think about this has to do with money and how restaurants either make it or bleed it.

Excepting only the very small percentage of restaurants that are cash-hemorrhaging hobbies for billionaires, restaurants have to be profitable or they'll fail. This, of course, happens often for a very wide bevy of reasons.

To me, Geoff's is generic with ordinary food and maybe akin to Wal-Mart or Target in the retail world. Alternatively, the more popular restaurants here on dr.com are both upscale Neiman Marcuses and and more affordable yet still interesting and unique boutiques. Spots like Fiola or R24 are like Neiman. Spots like Fishnet, Joe's Noodle or Two Amys are boutiquey, great values and with big followings.

Restaurants can make money either way. And, given how incredibly hard it is to build a sustainably profitable small business, I think all successful restauranteurs deserve our respect as long as they're honest. Deserving respect, however, is not the same thing as deserving patronage since we each decide where we go and spend based on individual expectations and needs.

Geoff's arguably has a profit-maximizing strategy whereas the high-end or boutique places (interesting, different, ethnic, damn good even if not expensive) are trying to achieve a certain kind of reputation for putting out great and interesting food. The latter will typically offer great value but with lower margins or at least less bottom-line income than a Clydes, Maggianos or Geoff's. Tracy seems to take great pride in his business' financial success whereas other spots' greatest source of pride is in what they send out on plates. Different motivations. Different ways to succeed.

In any industry, money is there to be made by targeting different types of customers with different needs and different income levels.

I'm not a Geoff's customer simply because my expectation for any restaurant is that it be delicious, fairly priced, and memorable. By Tracy's own admission, his goal is for the food to be forgettable. For me, memorable is a great, non-generic meal, whether expensive or inexpensive. I'm big on value: the quality of what you get for whatever price paid. But I am an admirer of Geoff's business model (especially if it continues to prove successful as he scales). And I do fully appreciate and respect that others are different from me and enjoy Geoff's for many reaasons.

All fair and good. No right or wrong.

[jayandstacey]

All fair and good. No right or wrong.

Yes - and I think our ideas are aligned even if my choice of single words to sum up the different types of diners isn't quite right.

[mtureck]

This all reminds me of the scene in "Big Night" (which if you haven't seen, shame on you!) where Pascal is describing why his admittedly lesser Italian restaurant for the masses is doing so well,

"A guy works all day, he don't want to look at his plate and ask, "What the fuck is this?" He wants to look at his plate, see a steak, and say "I like steak!"

All the analysis in this thread is great, but I think that sums it up pretty well.

[darkstar965]

This all reminds me of the scene in "Big Night" (which if you haven't seen, shame on you!) where Pascal is describing why his admittedly lesser Italian restaurant for the masses is doing so well,

"A guy works all day, he don't want to look at his plate and ask, "What the fuck is this?" He wants to look at his plate, see a steak, and say "I like steak!"

All the analysis in this thread is great, but I think that sums it up pretty well.

From the same movie (which is pretty funny). Here we have Secondo (the brother who just wants to give the masses what he thinks they want) feeling a bit overwhelmed and being put in his place by Pascal, who's slowly changing his mindset about great food:

You know everything has just become... too much.

Hey, hey, fucking guy! What this is: "too much"? HEY! It is never "too much"; it is only "not enough"! Bite your teeth into the ass of life and drag it to you! HEY!

and, from mtureck's Pascal, later in the film, after his transformation is almost complete:

God damn it, I should kill you! This is so fucking good I should kill you!

Makes both points nicely. Some just want the damn steak. Others want something a bit more special, interesting or memorable. There are restaurants that do both nicely and sustainably. Don't have to spend more to be memorable. Just have to have that as a priority and focus. That's why spots like Fishnet (less expensive) and Fiola (more expensive) can both delight someone like me. Both very memorable. And it's why there are absolutely customers who beat down the doors of Clydes and Chef Geoff's.

[Waitman]

The Chef Geoff's customer is different from the Fiola or Joe's Noodle customer.

Unless it's me, in which case he's exactly the same.

For all the talk of "delicious, fairly priced and memorable" and "the stupid, ill-informed, unsophisticated, masses," there is often much to be said for a convenient, decent, civilized place perhaps not to "dine," but to "eat.'

Sometimes I feel as though the urge to dump on places like Cheff Geoff's or any Spike Mendelsson spot reveals a certain insecurity, as if we have to assert our sophistication to convince ourselves of it. I'm speaking here more to the grand pronouncements of the last few posts as opposed to the "I ate there and didn't really like it" analyses earlier on.

"Since this is primarily a dining website, in search of artistry, I can't say that Chef Geoff's has culinary merit." Oh, ick. Does this mean we can't talk about Tater Tots and rotisserie chicken any more?

I always thought it was a website for people who like to eat and I get all nervous when people start dividing restaurants into the "worthy" and the "unworthy."

For what it's worth, I find CG's somewhere in the middle ground between truly loathsome places like Magianos and truly decent neighborhood places like Maple. I think it's a shade pricy for what they deliver, but if there was one in Columbia Heights, I'd eat there every now and again because it's decent and close.

[darkstar965]

Just hit "like" for the first time on Waitman's post. Agree wholeheartedly on everything except his first line. And that's not so much disagreement.

On the "different customer" thing I wrote, of course talking in aggregate. Segments if you will. I've been to CG's also but not in a long time. Allowing for anecdotes and exceptions (guessing most of us visit 'mass market' places on occasion; some play the field more broadly; some change over time), I think it fair to say what I did. Those who frequent spots like Fishnet, Maple, Palena or Fiola generally aren't the same people who frequent spots like Clydes or CGs. Different but not good or bad, lesser or greater. No judgments. Just preferences.

[zoramargolis]

Personally, I made a decision not to patronize any of GT's establishments after hearing a radio interview with him a few days after a Post article about him was published, showing him in his multi-gazillion dollar new home kitchen in Potomac or McLean. Yes I know that his wife is a successful television journalist. But during the interview, he whined about a proposal that employers had to provide a few days of paid sick leave to their employees, complaining that it would cut into his profit margin too much. Knowing what the going rate is for waitstaff (less than minimum wage) and most kitchen staff (minimum wage), and that many kitchen workers cannot afford to lose a day's pay, so they work sick, I found his attitude particularly loathesome. Raise your prices a few pennies per dish, dude. Or take less money for yourself. Treat your workers more humanely. JMHO.

[DonRocks]

Unless it's me, in which case he's exactly the same.

For all the talk of "delicious, fairly priced and memorable" and "the stupid, ill-informed, unsophisticated, masses," there is often much to be said for a convenient, decent, civilized place perhaps not to "dine," but to "eat.'

Sometimes I feel as though the urge to dump on places like Cheff Geoff's or any Spike Mendelsson spot reveals a certain insecurity, as if we have to assert our sophistication to convince ourselves of it. I'm speaking here more to the grand pronouncements of the last few posts as opposed to the "I ate there and didn't really like it" analyses earlier on.

"Since this is primarily a dining website, in search of artistry, I can't say that Chef Geoff's has culinary merit." Oh, ick. Does this mean we can't talk about Tater Tots and rotisserie chicken any more?

I always thought it was a website for people who like to eat and I get all nervous when people start dividing restaurants into the "worthy" and the "unworthy."

For what it's worth, I find CG's somewhere in the middle ground between truly loathsome places like Magianos and truly decent neighborhood places like Maple. I think it's a shade pricy for what they deliver, but if there was one in Columbia Heights, I'd eat there every now and again because it's decent and close.

Wow, do you *really* think extracting my one comment about Simon and Taylor Hicks reflects the overall tone of my post - which was an attempt to reach agreement with someone who I didn't, on the first pass, agree with? I went out of my way to try for a meeting of the minds, which is R-A-R-E on the internet, and quite honestly, I'm proud of myself for having done so successfully from what I can see. I could have attacked; instead I tried to actually read what mtureck wrote, think about it for a great deal of time, giving his points the respect they deserved, and then strive for a point of agreement, and I think I did so very effectively, providing two different - yet valid - points of view on the same issue.

Comparing your (one might say) uppity Maggiano's comment in the same way that you compared my Chef Geoff's comment - am I entitled to say, "Oh, ick. Does this mean we can't talk about fettucini with meat sauce any more?" Because I think it's the exact same thing. If you don't, then please tell me what the difference is.

From where I interpret it: bad post, Charles. You took a potentially contentious thread, that had turned positive, and turned it back into something negative.

[Heather]

I know where Charles was attempting to come from, *and* understand what Don is saying.

I'm extremely reluctant to take shots at the "ill-informed, ignorant" masses, because not everyone uninterested in the latest fad is ignorant. My dad is a very successful man, with two masters degrees. He eats lunch or dinner out nearly every day for business. His ideal is a place that takes reservations, has a wide range of entrees, recognizable food (the "I love steak" mentioned above - great movie BTW), and service that won't be an embarrassment. He would no more drive in town and wait outside for an hour to have a meal at Little Serow -- although he loves Thai food and is the person who introduced me to it -- than he would try to flap his arms and fly to the moon. Some people are content to eat, not "dine," and very much prize something reasonably tasty and predictable.

And when he wants a place to take all of his kids and grandkids out to eat, he almost always takes us to Maggianos. They can handle a table for 12 with ease, always take reservations, and have something to please everyone right down to my 18-month-old niece. His birthday is next week, and no doubt we will all be eating at Maggianos to celebrate, "loathsome" as it is.

I am much less likely to patronize Chef Geoff's not because of the boring food, but because of the interview Zora mentioned. I am less and less enthralled with the way the industry works, with its exploitation of undocumented workers, long hours, low wages, and lack of health care or benefits. I would love to see a notation next to every place in the dining guide rating an establishment on how it treats its staff, so that I can truly evaluate whether it should get my patronage.

[fuzzy510]

From where I interpret it: bad post, Charles. You took a potentially contentious thread, that had turned positive, and turned it back into something negative.

Sorry, I'm not seeing that at all - if anything, I think it's the most thought-provoking thing that's been said thus far. Count me in as one who absolutely LOATHES painting restaurants with the broad brushes that this community has been using recently.

To say that a place like Chef Geoff's has no culinary merit means to abandon hope, all ye who enter. That if I happen to find myself there for a meal, I'm better off pocketing the cash and skipping eating. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see that actually being the case at Chef Geoff's. (Honestly, I can't tell you with any level of certainty, because I've never eaten at any of the man's restaurants, but with as much cash as he's printing, he has to be doing SOMETHING right.)

But instead of offering up any sort of actual critique on what Chef Geoff's, Good Stuff, et al, do wrong, we just write the whole operation off in one pass. What does that add to the discussion? This is the more civilized and verbose version of the 1-star Yelp review that says "This place sucks!" and its less evil twin, the 5-star "Awesome!" review. It's lazy, and offers nothing to the reader except a feeling of judgement if they happen to hold a differing opinion.

Restaurant discussion is incredibly helpful when we're talking about facts; quality of food, quality of service, etc. It's provocative when we compare how different kitchens treat similar ingredients, or how certain staffs treat the guest experience. But something like value is so wildly subjective between people and so limited in scope, I'm not sure it's even worth talking about. What's a valuable restaurant? What does that even mean? Your definition will differ from my definition, and will differ from four other peoples' definitions. And at least when we call a restaurant good or bad, there's shades of gray in between.

To talk about restaurants as either having or not having merit is the worst kind of dichotomous classification that I feel should never be used for something as varied and as personal as restaurants. It offers very little room for discussion, and smacks of laziness. And maybe Charles was a bit sarcastic when he said it, but the point stands: if Chef Geoff's has no culinary merit, why are we here talking about it at all? Why are we talking about any of these restaurants that have no merit? You're not just calling into question the people who dine at these worthless establishments - you're calling into question the people who want to talk about them, even if it's to discuss something negative that they maybe should have seen coming.

What kind of discussion does that leave us with?

[darkstar965]

Value and preferences are personal and, at least to me, interesting when supported. Decreeing whether a place "has merit" or "is worthy" can sound imperious but usually when taken out of context, Personal opinion, however colorfully conveyed, is the lifeblood of a site like this imho.

Though I probably don't like Maggianos anymore than Waitman, I wouldn't call it "loathsome" because it serves a market well, or seems like it does.

All the same, I think the context is critical. Nearly all the time on this site, personal opinions are being expressed and that's gold. Call it loathsome, say it sucks, whatever.I try to empathize with the small business owners in choosing whatever language to constructively criticize but, in the cases of CGs or Maggianos, that's less a concern since nothing anyone writes here is going to stop those trains.

Just support whatever argument with some facts or evidence and it becomes useful...maybe even entertaining.As long as it's not vindictive, hostile or destructive, I'm good. Had no problem whatsoever with Waitman's or Rocks' posts.Loved Zora's short post. They all had me thinking and I love that.

[DonRocks]

Sorry, I'm not seeing that at all - if anything, I think it's the most thought-provoking thing that's been said thus far. Count me in as one who absolutely LOATHES painting restaurants with the broad brushes that this community has been using recently.

To say that a place like Chef Geoff's has no culinary merit means to abandon hope, all ye who enter. That if I happen to find myself there for a meal, I'm better off pocketing the cash and skipping eating. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see that actually being the case at Chef Geoff's. (Honestly, I can't tell you with any level of certainty, because I've never eaten at any of the man's restaurants, but with as much cash as he's printing, he has to be doing SOMETHING right.)

But instead of offering up any sort of actual critique on what Chef Geoff's, Good Stuff, et al, do wrong, we just write the whole operation off in one pass. What does that add to the discussion? This is the more civilized and verbose version of the 1-star Yelp review that says "This place sucks!" and its less evil twin, the 5-star "Awesome!" review. It's lazy, and offers nothing to the reader except a feeling of judgement if they happen to hold a differing opinion.

Restaurant discussion is incredibly helpful when we're talking about facts; quality of food, quality of service, etc. It's provocative when we compare how different kitchens treat similar ingredients, or how certain staffs treat the guest experience. But something like value is so wildly subjective between people and so limited in scope, I'm not sure it's even worth talking about. What's a valuable restaurant? What does that even mean? Your definition will differ from my definition, and will differ from four other peoples' definitions. And at least when we call a restaurant good or bad, there's shades of gray in between.

To talk about restaurants as either having or not having merit is the worst kind of dichotomous classification that I feel should never be used for something as varied and as personal as restaurants. It offers very little room for discussion, and smacks of laziness. And maybe Charles was a bit sarcastic when he said it, but the point stands: if Chef Geoff's has no culinary merit, why are we here talking about it at all? Why are we talking about any of these restaurants that have no merit? You're not just calling into question the people who dine at these worthless establishments - you're calling into question the people who want to talk about them, even if it's to discuss something negative that they maybe should have seen coming.

What kind of discussion does that leave us with?

fuzzy, I appreciate the time you put into writing this, but to my eyes, you've set up (unintentionally) multiple strawmen, and mowed 'em all down. This, interleaved with some blatantly obvious truths in a way that would require parsing and analyzing each sentence to respond to your post in any meaningful manner, and I just don't have the hour it would take me to do, and I'm not sure what would be accomplished if I did.

So let me just say "thanks" for your opinion. Please consider it read, thought about, and much appreciated (and I'm not being sarcastic - I really do appreciate your thoughts).

Cheers,

Rocks

PS - It was your post that made me rethink (and eliminate) the word "Ordinary" from the thread title.

[darkstar965]

Not intended as a judgment, broad brush, criticism or praise. Just an observation I found mildly interesting.

With everything internet the past decade or so, direct marketing mail to homes is way down. Not sure about all of you but, generally, the only 5x7 unsolicited promotional cards we tend to get with our mail are from realtors, the occasional contractor or personal service types like teeth whitening providers.

I don't remember the last time I got such a marketing card from a restaurant. Until today.