Etiquette, The Two-Way Street

[reverbbrad]

Just fyi, the answer to all of these questions: "What do you think I should get?" "Is the special, like, good, or should I just go with the steak?" "Which one is your favorite?" is "ShutupshutupshutupshutupIdon'tcaaaaaaaaaaaaare."

Don't Play Stump the Waiter

"What's sopressata?" "What's a croutade?" "What's the difference between Blue Point and Kumamoto oysters?" Fucking google it later and don't embarrass yourself.

Drink, You Asshole!

I hope this person is, in fact, a former restaurant worker. Getting angry at customers that don't drink is bad enough, but getting angry with those who express an interest in what they are eating is pathetic. I hope he or she found his true calling in the exciting field of health insurance claims rejection adjustments.

[blakegwinn]

Drink, You Asshole![/i]

If I ever got an eye roll I would just say "Oh I'm sorry, I am a recovering alcoholic three months sober. My wife said I can move back in with her and the kids at 6 months, but you know what, you look upset that I didn't get something to drink so get me a double whiskey please."

[DameEdna]

Oh sure, the server expects a tip just based on the service. How often do hear the server say:

" No, no, I need to pay YOU ... those lies you were telling your date, they were very entertaining!"

("so there I am with fifty pounds of gold in my backpack, wondering how how to get home ... a limo

pulls up, it's my buddy Donald Trump!")

Restaurant employees have varying visions of reality, just like the general population ... we had a waiter

who seemed to have enjoyed a joint before work ... very relaxed ... and cheerful! He brought me

my steak and told my wife "You know that thing you ordered? We don't have any!" Did he get a good tip?

I don't think so.

At least with computer systems we rarely have to cope with "waiter arithmetic." Now that was

often really embarassing.

[crackers]

All told, I probably stood for 10 minutes and sat uncomfortably for 10 minutes.

I'm not clear if your complaint is about uneven enforcement of a policy, about the policy itself, or about not getting preferential treatment because you are a regular.

I might get grief for this, but generally speaking, women who are six months pregnant are not incapacitated, and not perceived to be. Perhaps you should have told the staff who was enforcing the restaurant's policy, and the person at the bar who was saving a seat for a friend, that you have difficulty standing up, and that even sitting at the bar is uncomfortable for you.

Kudos to Jonathan, who was nice enough to give up his seat at the bar for you anyway.

[smokey]

<snip>generally speaking, women who are six months pregnant are not incapacitated, and not perceived to be.<snip>

Kudos to Jonathan, who was nice enough to give up his seat at the bar for you anyway.

No, they're not incapacitated. My intuition tells me, however, that you've never been pregnant if that's your take on this. I don't think she was suggesting that she was "incapacitated" and therefore needed a seat. Sometimes, when you're 6 months pregnant (and maybe you've been at work all day long), you're pretty tired. You're slugging around extra weight and it's distributed lumpily across your body. There are times when it would be nice to sit down.

I think it was nice, and appropriate, for somebody at the bar (Jonathan) to offer BLB a seat. He recognized that although she wasn't incapacitated by her pregnancy, she might be more comfortable sitting down. Apparently, BLB didn't realize he was doing so, and when she went to sit, the seat had been claimed by somebody seated adjacent to it. IMHO, that woman really should have had the good sense to realize BLB was pregnant and let her sit there. (Although this is all a tangent to the etiquette of the restaurant policies/enforcement.)

[DanCole42]

No, they're not incapacitated. My intuition tells me, however, that you've never been pregnant if that's your take on this. I don't think she was suggesting that she was "incapacitated" and therefore needed a seat. Sometimes, when you're 6 months pregnant (and maybe you've been at work all day long), you're pretty tired. You're slugging around extra weight and it's distributed lumpily across your body. There are times when it would be nice to sit down.

I think it was nice, and appropriate, for somebody at the bar (Jonathan) to offer BLB a seat. He recognized that although she wasn't incapacitated by her pregnancy, she might be more comfortable sitting down. Apparently, BLB didn't realize he was doing so, and when she went to sit, the seat had been claimed by somebody seated adjacent to it. IMHO, that woman really should have had the good sense to realize BLB was pregnant and let her sit there. (Although this is all a tangent to the etiquette of the restaurant policies/enforcement.)

It's really just common courtesy. If there's a pregnant woman around, be it on the bus, the subway, at a restaurant, a dinner party... you give her your seat. Same goes for the elderly, members of the clergy, the enfeebled, children, mothers with children, veterans, soldiers, and, if you want to be really chivalrous, any woman in general.

But that's just me. I'm old school.

[crackers]

My intuition tells me, however, that you've never been pregnant if that's your take on this.

If someone is feeling like they really need to sit down, pregnant or not, elderly, sick, or just plain exhausted from working on their feet all day in a day care center, they should speak up about it. A restaurant can't be expected to know how someone is feeling unless they speak up.

[Waitman]

If someone is feeling like they really need to sit down, pregnant or not, elderly, sick, or just plain exhausted from working on their feet all day in a day care center, they should speak up about it. A restaurant can't be expected to know how someone is feeling unless they speak up.

I'd hope that the sick aren't in the dining room spreading sputum and I suspect a restaurant enforcing a (generally defensible) policy of "complete parties only" can't be swayed by every person claiming exhaustion. On the other hand, I'd think obvious things like old age, disability or pregnancy would earn an extra dollop of courtesy. ("Sorry gramps, I don't care how much knees are hurting. If you don't like the policy, you and your cane can just limp on out of here!")

It is, as they say, the "hospitality" industry.

(Don't get me started on those damn pregant parking spaces, though )

[qwertyy]

I just got off crutches so have deep sympathy for this conundrum.

"Would you like to sit down?"

S/he can and may say no.

I suppose it's queer to try to make kindness a policy, but jeez. It's not that hard.

[demandalicious]

If someone is feeling like they really need to sit down, pregnant or not, elderly, sick, or just plain exhausted from working on their feet all day in a day care center, they should speak up about it. A restaurant can't be expected to know how someone is feeling unless they speak up.

If someone is that tired - from working all day, being knocked up, hungover, sore from last night's breakdancing contest, or whatever - then they should either:

1. make a reservation (esp. if the restaurant in question is known to be busy & it's a Thurs-Sat night)

2. go home, rest their feet and order delivery

3. go home, and make someone bring them food and rub their feet**

**Clearly, this is the best option.

[blakegwinn]

This might have been discussed already on this board and I definitely remember one or two TOM chats about this, but after reading an angry comment from a poster who "only received a free dessert because their steak was pink" on the RTC thread I was left wondering, when did the dining public start to feel so entitled? Only a free dessert for a pink steak? I just had someone go off on me because we don't provide free birthday cake. I agree its a nice touch, but an oft abused and costly one. I can understand disappointment but to spend 10 minutes bitching me, the server, out because you don't get something free? It just seems crazy. Free birthday deserts along with occasional free drinks from a bartender, comps after an order mess up etc. etc. used to be a show of hospitality now it is an expectation from the customer. It's crazy. I think it is a wonderfully nice gesture of a manager to take care of something for you if something gets really messed up (IE everyone else in your party finishes before you get yours or there is a cockroach in your food or something) but people want their entire meal comped now if a plate is 5 minutes late or the steak needs another 2 minutes on the grill.

Steaks are especially hard because everyone has different views of what the temps are. I have someone who comes in every week, real nice guy, but damn it if he doesn't order his steak medium every week and send it back as underdone EVERY time. I like the guy so it is just funny. I eventually just started putting it in as Medium Well when I see him and he hasn't complained since.

But I guess my point is, the price of something is printed right there on the menu, if you receive that item why would we expect not to pay or get something free? Where else is this normal? I would love to buy a book, read it, and then go into Barnes and Noble and tell them I want a free book because it wasn't as good as I had hoped. Or tell the lady at Giant I would like my cereal for free because I had to wait too long in line. If something goes wrong and you don't like the way it is handled, you don't demand something free. You pay for what you received and make the decision to not go back and by all means bitch to all your friends and family, write letters, whatever you want to do. If someone demanded things in any other branch of retail like they do in restaurants it would seem sooooo ridiculous.

[Barbara]

Blake,

You're preaching to the choir here, I believe. I suspect those spoiled people don't read this site or Tom's chats. It's a shame.

[mdt]

This might have been discussed already on this board and I definitely remember one or two TOM chats about this, but after reading an angry comment from a poster who "only received a free dessert because their steak was pink" on the RTC thread I was left wondering, when did the dining public start to feel so entitled? Only a free dessert for a pink steak? I just had someone go off on me because we don't provide free birthday cake. I agree its a nice touch, but an oft abused and costly one. I can understand disappointment but to spend 10 minutes bitching me, the server, out because you don't get something free? It just seems crazy. Free birthday deserts along with occasional free drinks from a bartender, comps after an order mess up etc. etc. used to be a show of hospitality now it is an expectation from the customer. It's crazy. I think it is a wonderfully nice gesture of a manager to take care of something for you if something gets really messed up (IE everyone else in your party finishes before you get yours or there is a cockroach in your food or something) but people want their entire meal comped now if a plate is 5 minutes late or the steak needs another 2 minutes on the grill.

Steaks are especially hard because everyone has different views of what the temps are. I have someone who comes in every week, real nice guy, but damn it if he doesn't order his steak medium every week and send it back as underdone EVERY time. I like the guy so it is just funny. I eventually just started putting it in as Medium Well when I see him and he hasn't complained since.

But I guess my point is, the price of something is printed right there on the menu, if you receive that item why would we expect not to pay or get something free? Where else is this normal? I would love to buy a book, read it, and then go into Barnes and Noble and tell them I want a free book because it wasn't as good as I had hoped. Or tell the lady at Giant I would like my cereal for free because I had to wait too long in line. If something goes wrong and you don't like the way it is handled, you don't demand something free. You pay for what you received and make the decision to not go back and by all means bitch to all your friends and family, write letters, whatever you want to do. If someone demanded things in any other branch of retail like they do in restaurants it would seem sooooo ridiculous.

I think this topic would make a great little educational article (hint, hint) for the Post Food section.

[Heather]

Blake, they are the same people I dealt with that would miss their concert (or play, or...) at the Kennedy Center and call the next day expecting free tickets to something else. Although expecting a restaurant to provide free birthday cake is just crazy.

I would be interested to find out the average number of comps your average restaurant gives out on a daily basis, and whether that number has been steadily increasing as I suspect it has. Do any of our pros have numbers they're allowed to share?

[blakegwinn]

I would be interested to find out the average number of comps your average restaurant gives out on a daily basis, and whether that number has been steadily increasing as I suspect it has.

I admit I am young and was not an experienced diner through the 60's 70's 80's etc. but can someone shed light on to what the status quo for mistakes was back then?

[Jacques Gastreaux]

I was left wondering, when did the dining public start to feel so entitled?

Some (initials are M.L.) are of the view that this not a trend but a feature of the climate in Washington, DC; what with all those macrocephalic politicians running around all over the place.

[Lydia R]

I think this topic would make a great little educational article (hint, hint) for the Post Food section.

I admit I am young and was not an experienced diner through the 60's 70's 80's etc. but can someone shed light on to what the status quo for mistakes was back then?

I probably won't get to play a newspaper editor on TV, so here goes:

Calling Phyllis Richman! Ms. Richman, could you please write an instructive guest column for the Post on this subject?

Your August 2005 article side-by-side with David Hagedorn's two pieces were interesting because they showed the great divide between customer and restauranteur perspectives, but gave us little middle ground to walk on.

Maybe, instead of being in the Food Section, it could run in the "user-guide-friendly" Sunday Source? I doubt our target audience reads the Food Section...

[bioesq]

I admit I am young and was not an experienced diner through the 60's 70's 80's etc. but can someone shed light on to what the status quo for mistakes was back then?

I don’t recall that there were the same sorts of sturm und drang- life as we know it is over- issues associated with dining out then as there are now. A dearth of choices meant a bit more mystique at the high end, and there was virtually no available information about restaurants unless it was word-of-mouth or Donald Dresden. Given that, the complaints were far fewer and, as I recall, related to more easily measured matters such being served something rare instead of well-done, or waiting 15-20 minutes for a server to take a drink order. For the former omission, the chef cooked it more; for the latter, the manager would hopefully locate said server, apologize profusely and get back to the more important business of calling his bookie. There might be a drink offered to soothe the offended patron, but usually not. The other option was to walk out, a choice that seems infinitely more preferable than putting on a prolonged, Woolfian-like drama for the benefit of those not intoxicated enough to blissfully ignore it. And, struggle as I might, I cannot recall the maitre‘d at the Rive Gauche ever arranging gratis airfare to Paris for a patron in high dudgeon because his napkin was inadvertently folded in the Belgian style.

And, if you will, the extras that you received were gestures of thanks for being a regular customer and/or spending a lot of money, and not the much-discussed, begrudged responses to bleating entitlement tantrums. This is not to say that all such offerings by today’s yardstick are wholly without foundation, but only that the measurement has dramatically changed.

[laniloa]

Funny this came back up as I was just talking to my grandfather about this same topic this weekend. He owned several restaurants in New York City over the years -- everything from diners to fine dining. He retired and closed his last restaurant in the early 70s. He said comping was a common way to deal with restaurant mixups but that it was treated as a nice gesture and not a requirement. He had a set range of options that servers and managers had flexibility to use at their discretion based on level of mixup -- something small if it was really diner error that frustrated the table up to pricier options at his upscale places. He said they built it into their budget and matched it with an incentive scale. Each comp was recorded to the server who issued it. If a server didn't use the minimum budgeted for comps, they get a bonus for the month. To keep servers from skimping on comps if they didn't meet the service standard, the managers would watch the floor and take care of issues the servers missed. Those counted double to the server. He said that after a server worked for him for several months they'd start steadily making their monthly bonuses because they were able to keep snafus from turning into something bigger because they'd raised their standard of service. He also said he was very fortunate to have career servers make up the overwhelming majority of his staff. He said he doesn't know that he could recreate that today.

This discussion came about because the diner at the table next to us had a meltdown because neither the menu nor the server pointed out that the chicken salad had mayo in it. The server made several poor attempts to explain chicken salad and finally asked the diner if he'd like another dish. The diner ate the substitute and then called the manager over to complain that it hadn't been comped to make up for the earlier error. Jeez.

[blakegwinn]

Funny this came back up as I was just talking to my grandfather about this same topic this weekend. He owned several restaurants in New York City over the years -- everything from diners to fine dining. He retired and closed his last restaurant in the early 70s. He said comping was a common way to deal with restaurant mixups but that it was treated as a nice gesture and not a requirement. He had a set range of options that servers and managers had flexibility to use at their discretion based on level of mixup -- something small if it was really diner error that frustrated the table up to pricier options at his upscale places. He said they built it into their budget and matched it with an incentive scale. Each comp was recorded to the server who issued it. If a server didn't use the minimum budgeted for comps, they get a bonus for the month. To keep servers from skimping on comps if they didn't meet the service standard, the managers would watch the floor and take care of issues the servers missed. Those counted double to the server. He said that after a server worked for him for several months they'd start steadily making their monthly bonuses because they were able to keep snafus from turning into something bigger because they'd raised their standard of service. He also said he was very fortunate to have career servers make up the overwhelming majority of his staff. He said he doesn't know that he could recreate that today.

This discussion came about because the diner at the table next to us had a meltdown because neither the menu nor the server pointed out that the chicken salad had mayo in it. The server made several poor attempts to explain chicken salad and finally asked the diner if he'd like another dish. The diner ate the substitute and then called the manager over to complain that it hadn't been comped to make up for the earlier error. Jeez.

Gotta admit that sounds like a pretty sound system to me even in the present time...

[blakegwinn]

You know just from conversations with my brother, a manager at the type of large national chain you reading this probably hate with all your being, a lot of this coincides with the rise of corporation restaurants like his. He says there are so many times when a customer is blatantly wrong, just out and out lies, but if they complain to corporate they will throw them a gift card despite any protest from my brother. These large corporations have no problem throwing 50 dollar gift cards around like candy, in a way locally owned stand-alones can't afford. If I wrote a letter to Applebees right now and said, "I didn't like your restaurant. I had a terrible time when I visited on Dec. 16th., Sincerely, Blake" I would be willing to bet I would rreceive a gift card in the mail soon. As a manager in this atmosphere, just like a waiter in a comp happy restaurant, this can feel like you are completely getting hamstrung. Imagine you are being nothing but polite to the WORST asshole in your office as he bitches you out over imagined insults and then when you finally get away and go to tell your buddy about it he promptly takes the guy out to lunch.

[xcanuck]

A slight tangent to this current thread....what about expectations from regulars?? Should regulars be entitled to special service? If so, what is considered reasonable?

For example, should a regular expect to get special seating (if requested) when booking a reservation? That's probably not unreasonable. How about special accomodations with respect to the menu? Sure - why not? as long as it doesn't cause undue pressure on the kitchen.

At the other end of the spectrum, it's probably too much (IMHO) for a regular to expect comps or to be seated without a reservation if the joint is full.

I'm not really looking for a code of conduct - every place does different things for their regulars. I'm just interested to hear from industry types...what kind of whacky and wild things do your regulars expect you to do for them??

[blakegwinn]

A slight tangent to this current thread....what about expectations from regulars?? Should regulars be entitled to special service? If so, what is considered reasonable?

For example, should a regular expect to get special seating (if requested) when booking a reservation? That's probably not unreasonable. How about special accomodations with respect to the menu? Sure - why not? as long as it doesn't cause undue pressure on the kitchen.

At the other end of the spectrum, it's probably too much (IMHO) for a regular to expect comps or to be seated without a reservation if the joint is full.

I'm not really looking for a code of conduct - every place does different things for their regulars. I'm just interested to hear from industry types...what kind of whacky and wild things do your regulars expect you to do for them??

Just a few quick things off the top of my head: Pouring a taste of beer or wine if they are having trouble deciding, recomendations on what isn't so hot that day (I would steer a non-regular away if possible but wouldn't risk out and out bad-mouthing something it if I didn't know the person well), going to bat with the chef over a substitution or something that he doesn't like to do, something that is behind the scenes but has a big effect is always putting your table as a priority, (ie, if I walk through the restaurant and you ask for more bread and another table asks for refills on drinks, your bread will be coming out first), I've even whipped up sauces (BBQ and Cocktail) real quick that we don't have on hand for some regulars, giving single people the Goodfellas treatment when they come in with someone (or when a married couple comes in keeping quiet about the lady the guy brought in last week! ) continuing to keep drinks fully refilled well after you have finished (before I get burned, I work in a place were turnover is PARAMOUNT to making money, if I worked at Citronelle, I would probably be doing that for everyone), I even give tips on other places to eat ALA Miracle on 34th St. (I know you always get the roast chicken, have you been down to Palena?).

Getting certain tables or bypassing the wait is tough and sometimes a problem because at a non-reservation restaurant you run the risk of REALLY putting someone off if they realize they were leapfrogged, no matter how much you like the people who just walked in, comps are also hard for me because I need to put the ticket into the computer to get just about anything and once it is in the comp. it takes a manager to take it out and I will have to have a reason. Liking a regular is not a reason, especially when 60 percent of our business is probably regulars.

One thingthat actually brings this back to topic is soliciting the manager to take care of a problem with a comp. I know that seems contrary to my whole post above but really nice, good rregulars rarely complain loud enough for the manager to feel the need to comp. They are trying to keep under their comp budget and much to my chagrin use it up on the whiners because they are afraid they will write a letter to the owners or something. They know that with regulars a sincere apology will usually do the trick.

[Pat]

My big peeve (and I've wanted to post this for a while and I haven't) is people who occupy single-stall bathrooms in restaurants for long periods of time. I can't tell you how many times in the past couple of years I have waited outside one of these while in dire need grumbling, "What, are you taking a bath in there?!"

I understand that people may have, uh, intestinal neccessities, that might keep them in the bathroom longer than usual, but I am talking about people in a bathroom where you hear water running and the electric towel dispenser going, over and over, like someone is taking a bath.

The, uh, overflow, from this is women using men's bathrooms, which then upsets the men.

[Grumbling edited a bit for conciseness.]

[Banco]

The, uh, overflow, from this is women using men's bathrooms, which then upsets the men.

It's never upset me, though I've found the reverse can cause a bit of a fracas.

[Walrus]

There's a nice little article on the Chicago Tribune site today

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainmen...inmentfront-hed

about proper etiquette for both servers and diners.

[ol_ironstomach]

IIRC, Letitia Baldridge endorses the tines up/tines down rule in her books. Europeans, I am told, cross their flatware at the top of the plate. As a lefty, I use the knife and fork "continental" style anyway (one in each hand), and adhere to the tines up/tines down signal for good measure, so it surprises me nowadays when at the end of the meal, I gather my flatware together high on the plate, tines up, in the least ergonomic position I can manage, and am still asked if I'm finished. Nothing against the server; I figure they've been instructed to always ask because somewhere along the way, some $#@*! doofus figured out how to rest their knife and fork in the least convenient way possible while still dining.

[smokey]

IIRC, Letitia Baldridge endorses the tines up/tines down rule in her books.

Now don't I feel like a boob? I've never even heard a tines up/down rule. I just do the 4 o'clock placement and say a little prayer!

[ol_ironstomach]

Now don't I feel like a boob? I've never even heard a tines up/down rule.

Please don't...it's meant to be a polite custom (like tapping the table in gratitude when someone pours your tea at dim sum), not a secret snob handshake. Not that knowing it seems to matter anymore.

Tines down = "I'm still eating, but setting this fork/spoon down for a sec." This keeps the implement as "clean" as possible.

Tines up = "I'm finished." AKA I'm going to let the back of the fork get globbed up with sauce now.

[dfmcpete]

Etiquette question: when enjoying a discounted meal, would it be out of line to ask the server to calculate/ballpark the undiscounted price? I would want to tip on the full amount, but I don't want to trouble the server or appear to be such a proud cheapskate that I want to know exactly how much I saved.

I'll probably estimate it myself, but I thought it was worth soliciting opinions.

[treznor]

I'd probably just try and estimate it myself and leave a bit more than usual...

[Biscuit Girl]

Etiquette question: when enjoying a discounted meal, would it be out of line to ask the server to calculate/ballpark the undiscounted price? I would want to tip on the full amount, but I don't want to trouble the server or appear to be such a proud cheapskate that I want to know exactly how much I saved.

I'll probably estimate it myself, but I thought it was worth soliciting opinions.

This may be a silly question but wouldn't you be able to get the full price from the menu when you ordered? Then you'd be able to calculate the tip based in the regular price.

[dfmcpete]

Yeah, I know; I betrayed my ignorance of remarkably simple math with that post. Still though, for the meal that prompted the question, we ordered 6 menu items plus a bottle of wine, all of which were discounted to varying degrees (thanks Dino!). In the end, I figured it out myself, and I think the tip was fine.

[treznor]

Cardinal rule for me is "Don't hurt the servers tip just because I got something for free/discounted". Now, if the reason I got something free/discounted is because the service was atrocious, that's another thing...

[Arion]

I am new; please don't hurt me.

Nadya, you're one of the nice servers who doesn't think that the moon has fallen into the sea and cats are singing arias from “Tosca” because a woman is going to order the wine, And she wants to taste it, too!!! Mwahahaha! Next, well be walking on our hind legs.

Also: Do I want some freshly cracked pepper from a peppermill the size of the Washington Monument on my salad? How do I know? I haven't tasted it yet. Here's a plan, chef – sauce and spice your dishes. That's why I'm here; you're supposed to be better at this than I am.

Please don't offer me a “classy” box of teabags. I'm paying a lot for a good meal. Everything is made with care and is fresh and expensive and coddled. Can I please get a damn cup of brewed tea? And please don't tell me, as a snotty waiter told my mother at a swank doom-spot in L.A., “Not many people order tea.” Don't offer it if you can't make it. If many people didn't order beef cheeks, would they suck?

If we show up five minutes before our reservation, expecting to wait 5-10-15 reasonable minutes, please don't make the party six that we are huddle in the entranceway in late January while the door keeps opening for 50 minutes. The Palm. We may not be celebrities but my mother-in-law deserves a nice birthday dinner just the same,

As for diners: Don't touch the fixtures (man playing with lampshade at Ten Penh, unloosing it and sending it crashing to the floor) and don't make fun of my food (man's companion, loudly exclaiming that that FISH had a HEAD on IT and a TAIL EWWW. Who can EAT something like that???!! Uh, me, bitch. And I can hear you.

I'm sure I sound testy, but having both waited tables and written about food (a hundred years ago and on another coast), it helps to see both sides. You learn very quickly what hill is worth dying on. I had neutral opinions about most diners, was fond of some (those who clearly love food and are fans get lots of love from me) and raged silently at a very few. As a critic, and now a lowly diner, I endure unexpected waits, dropped plates, cold dishes (with apologies -- once as a server I was asked to palpate a lady's halibut, which was indeed ice cold and embarrassing for us all) and forgotten sides. I do not countenance sass, eye-rolling at requests, or being charged for the entire pizza you dropped in my lap, missy at California Pizza Kitchen (don't ask), AND the one you brought to replace it.

An unearned sense of entitlement -- it's not just for D.C. anymore.

[jm chen]

Who can EAT something like that???!! Uh, me, bitch. And I can hear you.

I don't necessarily agree with the whole post but this line made me laugh aloud.

[Barbara]

I don't necessarily agree with the whole post but this line made me laugh aloud.

Ditto. Welcome Tuliplee. Great post! Now, of course, we all want MORE from you!

[Arion]

Oh, gosh, all you'll get from me is fretting about the not agreeing. I'm such a weenie.

I should clarifiy that by "endure" I mean "happily and patiently endure the wee vagaries of dining out" because these things happen and you roll with it and it's not the end of the world and running a restaurant is no picnic and the unexpected is a given, so be patient and polite.It's just food (*ducks to avoid barrage of heirloom tomatoes*),

[Pat]

I don't know the best place to ask this question, but it does involve reservation etiquette. I need to make a reservation for next Saturday night somewhere downtown. A friend is coming from out of town and may or may not have a teenager with her. I figured making a reservation for 3 would require a table that seats 4 and that I could add a person if we find out her son is coming. Then I decided that perhaps it is better to do it the other way around and reserve for 4 people and drop one if necessary. Either way, it seemed like it would be the same size table and so not cause too much of a problem to make a change in party size.

When I checked open table for a party of 4, however, it brought up different times at some of the same restaurants than a search for a party of 3. This has left me confused . When one is unsure in a case like this, which is best (less inconvenient) for the restaurant? Should I just call the restaurant and explain the situation?

[Barbara]

Should I just call the restaurant and explain the situation?

Yes.

[Principia]

Not that any of the fine people here would do this, but for the love of gravy if you are two individual people taking a nice, l o n g, leisurely time picking at your salads and conversing with one another, do you mind sitting at the same table instead of spacing your tables well apart and taking up half of the flipping lounge area?

Sorry, the +1 enjoyed dinner in the bar at Corduroy on Friday night, and there were these two singletons sucking up at least half of the couch space between the two of them. No skin off our noses, but between the pregnant woman who had to haul up onto a bar seat and the large group who had to cram at two tables in the back corner (it would've been one, but we gladly moved over to help them out), we were about ready to go over and smack said singletons upside the head with a rolled up newspaper. Preferably the Sunday Los Angeles Times... but we didn't want Rissa to have to fill out a police report.

[bilrus]

Not that any of the fine people here would do this, but for the love of gravy if you are two individual people taking a nice, l o n g, leisurely time picking at your salads and conversing with one another, do you mind sitting at the same table instead of spacing your tables well apart and taking up half of the flipping lounge area?

Sorry, the +1 enjoyed dinner in the bar at Corduroy on Friday night, and there were these two singletons sucking up at least half of the couch space between the two of them. No skin off our noses, but between the pregnant woman who had to haul up onto a bar seat and the large group who had to cram at two tables in the back corner (it would've been one, but we gladly moved over to help them out), we were about ready to go over and smack said singletons upside the head with a rolled up newspaper. Preferably the Sunday Los Angeles Times... but we didn't want Rissa to have to fill out a police report.

I'm not sure I would go along with this one. If I am eating out by myself, it is likely because I want to be eating out by myself.

Edited to add - Ahh. I just re-read and saw that the two offenders were actually conversing with each other. Never mind - that is a totally different story. You'd never catch me talking with someone else. I'm too anti-social.

[bennybig1]

Mannequin Pis has it well laid out- ON the menu the chef writes: this is not a kid-friendly restaurant (i.e. don't ask me to make mac and cheese b/c your 4 year old doesn't like belgian food), this is not a vegetarian restaurant tho if you call ahead we can accomodate you and please, no substitutions,

sounds little SOUP NAZI-ish, but I actually respect it. at least before you order you know the guy has set the expectations and the food was great when we were there.

It just stuck out in my mind that he had the guts to say all that right on the menu.

[bennybig1]

I just had someone go off on me because we don't provide free birthday cake. I agree its a nice touch, but an oft abused and costly one.

oh great- and I bet you guys don't even SING happy birthday and disrupt eveyrone's dinner!@#*($ well I certainly won't be going to your place anytime soon

folks, if you want singing waiter, go to chi chis or chuck e. cheese.

[Pat]

Yes.

That's what I ended up doing. The hostess was very nice (and did note that the table size is the same for 3 and 4--I didn't get into the open table thing). A couple of hours after I went through this, I found out it's definitely 4 people .

[Waitman]

That's what I ended up doing. The hostess was very nice (and did note that the table size is the same for 3 and 4--I didn't get into the open table thing). A couple of hours after I went through this, I found out it's definitely 4 people .

This is why I dislike talking to open table and like talking to people.

Last (the only) time I tried OT, they told me I couldn't get a table at CityZen for Mrs. B's birthday. So I called and the reservationist hooked me right up. OT: not for me.

[TedE]

Last (the only) time I tried OT, they told me I couldn't get a table at CityZen for Mrs. B's birthday. So I called and the reservationist hooked me right up. OT: not for me.

An industry person can shed more light on this, but I would guess that most places only block off a portion of available tables for OpenTable. I would imagine the cancellation rate would be higher than call-ins. You can go into OT and make reservations for 6 different places in under 2 minutes probably, then cancel all but 1 of them in probably less time, all without having to engage in any human interaction whatsoever. I'm sure that's appealing to some folks and open for abuse.

This leads me to something else I've wondered: has there ever been a documented case of OpenTable scalping? That is somebody registering a bunch of accounts and then snagging tables at prime dining times for popular joints when they become available. I'm assuming said person could then auction off those times or take cash for the info through other channels. Short of carding guests at the host stand I can't see how it would be enforceable. Not that there's a business model lurking in there or anything ...

[jpschust]

An industry person can shed more light on this, but I would guess that most places only block off a portion of available tables for OpenTable. I would imagine the cancellation rate would be higher than call-ins. You can go into OT and make reservations for 6 different places in under 2 minutes probably, then cancel all but 1 of them in probably less time, all without having to engage in any human interaction whatsoever. I'm sure that's appealing to some folks and open for abuse.

This leads me to something else I've wondered: has there ever been a documented case of OpenTable scalping? That is somebody registering a bunch of accounts and then snagging tables at prime dining times for popular joints when they become available. I'm assuming said person could then auction off those times or take cash for the info through other channels. Short of carding guests at the host stand I can't see how it would be enforceable. Not that there's a business model lurking in there or anything ...

www.primetimetables.com

[dinwiddie]

An industry person can shed more light on this, but I would guess that most places only block off a portion of available tables for OpenTable. I would imagine the cancellation rate would be higher than call-ins. You can go into OT and make reservations for 6 different places in under 2 minutes probably, then cancel all but 1 of them in probably less time, all without having to engage in any human interaction whatsoever. I'm sure that's appealing to some folks and open for abuse.

This leads me to something else I've wondered: has there ever been a documented case of OpenTable scalping? That is somebody registering a bunch of accounts and then snagging tables at prime dining times for popular joints when they become available. I'm assuming said person could then auction off those times or take cash for the info through other channels. Short of carding guests at the host stand I can't see how it would be enforceable. Not that there's a business model lurking in there or anything ...

OpenTable does get upset if you make reservations and then not use them. In fact they will take away your "privilages" if you do it to often.

I've never had any problem with OpenTable and I use it all the time. Of course there are times when the restaurant will not take a reservation using it, but that is what the phone is for. I find it very handy when I'm traveling and I can make reservations in cities I'm traveling to before I get there or just open the laptop and make my reservation.

[Gillian Clark]

It was a busy Saturday night. In fact the crowd came early. All 49 seats were taken and the line was forming. Saturday night, a little before 7pm. This was busy in the making. Sure there were the simple vexations of special requests....salad no dressing, please no mushroom duxelle can we have mashed potatoes instead? Grumble Grumble...okay.

Unfortunately there is no alarm. Surely it would have started ringing. So when Robin was rushing to the sink with the hot oil filled saute pans she wouldn't have had to dodge the seven year old girl from table 10 that had run through the double doors and into our tiny kitchen. "You can't be in here," she shouted. The girl eyed her but did not retreat. Instead, she took two steps forward. She was trying to bust a move, get around her spiky haired obstacle and get to the good part of the room--that little space where 60,000 BTUs are firing and she can get to that little opening and wave to her unsuspecting Guardians sipping coffee and finishing dessert.

Robin gave her a coyote's wide eyed glare adding a growl to her voice..."You've got to get out of here now," she reasoned with the little brat, "It's not safe for you to be here." With that the girl ran out and took her seat. I watched her settle back into her chair beside her mother. As if she'd been in the bathroom and simply emptied the paper towel dispenser on to the floor. Her mother sighed and encouraged her to finish her ice cream soda.